Rainer Joswig wrote:
>> There was years ago a small book 'Lisp Style & Design'
>> which explained how to structure an application and
>> how to develop it. Unfortunately this book is hard
>> to get and very expensive.
Hmm, that's a shame. I've been pondering this very topic
recently. Even though my code-corpus isn't very large it's starting
to look a bit raggedy.
I remember Kenny posted a link about coding style (where to put the
brackets, common idioms, etc) sometime back but I can't find it.
Does anyone have any links to share on the topic?
Steve
On 29 Jan., 11:51, Steve Knight <······@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Rainer Joswig wrote:
> >> There was years ago a small book 'Lisp Style & Design'
> >> which explained how to structure an application and
> >> how to develop it. Unfortunately this book is hard
> >> to get and very expensive.
>
> Hmm, that's a shame. I've been pondering this very topic
> recently. Even though my code-corpus isn't very large it's starting
> to look a bit raggedy.
>
> I remember Kenny posted a link about coding style (where to put the
> brackets, common idioms, etc) sometime back but I can't find it.
> Does anyone have any links to share on the topic?
>
> Steve
Still relevant is Norvig/Pitman's 'Tutorial on Good Lisp Programming
Style' from
the Lisp conference August 1993.
http://lispm.dyndns.org/documentation/norvig-lisp-style.pdf
On Jan 29, 12:56 pm, ·······@corporate-world.lisp.de"
<······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote:
> On 29 Jan., 11:51, Steve Knight <······@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Rainer Joswig wrote:
> > >> There was years ago a small book 'Lisp Style & Design'
> > >> which explained how to structure an application and
> > >> how to develop it. Unfortunately this book is hard
> > >> to get and very expensive.
>
> > Hmm, that's a shame. I've been pondering this very topic
> > recently. Even though my code-corpus isn't very large it's starting
> > to look a bit raggedy.
>
> > I remember Kenny posted a link about coding style (where to put the
> > brackets, common idioms, etc) sometime back but I can't find it.
> > Does anyone have any links to share on the topic?
>
> > Steve
>
> Still relevant is Norvig/Pitman's 'Tutorial on Good Lisp Programming
> Style' from
> the Lisp conference August 1993.
>
> http://lispm.dyndns.org/documentation/norvig-lisp-style.pdf
I have tried to purchase 'Lisp Style & Design' from Amazon but it is
out of print. Also I can find it in eBay.
Do you know from where I can buy it?
Thanks
On 29 Jan., 13:14, zlatozar <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 29, 12:56 pm, ·······@corporate-world.lisp.de"
>
>
>
> <······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote:
> > On 29 Jan., 11:51, Steve Knight <······@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Rainer Joswig wrote:
> > > >> There was years ago a small book 'Lisp Style & Design'
> > > >> which explained how to structure an application and
> > > >> how to develop it. Unfortunately this book is hard
> > > >> to get and very expensive.
>
> > > Hmm, that's a shame. I've been pondering this very topic
> > > recently. Even though my code-corpus isn't very large it's starting
> > > to look a bit raggedy.
>
> > > I remember Kenny posted a link about coding style (where to put the
> > > brackets, common idioms, etc) sometime back but I can't find it.
> > > Does anyone have any links to share on the topic?
>
> > > Steve
>
> > Still relevant is Norvig/Pitman's 'Tutorial on Good Lisp Programming
> > Style' from
> > the Lisp conference August 1993.
>
> > http://lispm.dyndns.org/documentation/norvig-lisp-style.pdf
>
> I have tried to purchase 'Lisp Style & Design' from Amazon but it is
> out of print. Also I can find it in eBay.
> Do you know from where I can buy it?
>
> Thanks
Sometimes you might find it in online used book stores. But usually
it is very expensive ($200 and more). Some university libraries
might have it.
······@corporate-world.lisp.de wrote:
> On 29 Jan., 11:51, Steve Knight <······@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Rainer Joswig wrote:
>>>> There was years ago a small book 'Lisp Style & Design'
>>>> which explained how to structure an application and
>>>> how to develop it. Unfortunately this book is hard
>>>> to get and very expensive.
>> Hmm, that's a shame. I've been pondering this very topic
>> recently. Even though my code-corpus isn't very large it's starting
>> to look a bit raggedy.
>>
>> I remember Kenny posted a link about coding style (where to put the
>> brackets, common idioms, etc) sometime back but I can't find it.
>> Does anyone have any links to share on the topic?
>>
>> Steve
>
> Still relevant is Norvig/Pitman's 'Tutorial on Good Lisp Programming
> Style' from
> the Lisp conference August 1993.
>
> http://lispm.dyndns.org/documentation/norvig-lisp-style.pdf
>
>
That's a good concise read, thanks.
-ap
On Jan 29, 2:51 am, Steve Knight <······@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Rainer Joswig wrote:
> >> There was years ago a small book 'Lisp Style & Design'
> >> which explained how to structure an application and
> >> how to develop it. Unfortunately this book is hard
> >> to get and very expensive.
>
> Hmm, that's a shame. I've been pondering this very topic
> recently. Even though my code-corpus isn't very large it's starting
> to look a bit raggedy.
>
> I remember Kenny posted a link about coding style (where to put the
> brackets, common idioms, etc) sometime back but I can't find it.
> Does anyone have any links to share on the topic?
parts of what you want to do is one of the most harmful activity in
coding.
See a recent post i paste below:
--------------------------------------
by boxquote you mean ascii-picture box like the following?
#+----------------------------------------+
#| the following deal with user interface |
#+----------------------------------------+
I think that's the worst coding practice. In essence, it is a form of
hard-wired formatting. As a result, it is inflexible and prevents
machine parsing.
As the evolution of SGML, html, css, xml, have shown it the past 20
years, what you want is syntax based markup, not hard-wired format
presentation.
The conventional newsgroup quoting of prefixing “>” is a form of hard-
wired quoting. As we know, it's very problematic.
As another example, Java's inline doc convention, is a form towards
markup, so that it can be machine parsed (by javadoc).
Lisp's syntax is also more markup based (due to the parens). One
superb advantage coming out of this is the lisp macros. Similar is
today's huge XML movement that spawned a huge number of related
technologies thanks to its regularity too. On the other hand, most
imperative lang's syntax is hard-wired, and highly irregular.
so-called raster based image format vs so-called vector based image
format are another example of hard-wired vs markup concepts.
The basic difference between hard-wired presentation and markup is
that the later embeds or retains infomation.
See the following articles for full expositions of examples,
implications, consequences:
• The Harm of Hard-wrapping Lines
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/hard-wrap.html
• Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/tabs_vs_spaces.html
• A Simple Lisp Code Formatter
http://xahlee.org/emacs/lisp_formatter.html
• Fundamental Problems of Lisp
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lisp_problems.html
(the section Syntax Irregularities)
• The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
Nested Notations
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/
☄
On Jan 29, 3:45 pm, Xah Lee <······@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 29, 2:51 am, Steve Knight <······@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Rainer Joswig wrote:
> > >> There was years ago a small book 'Lisp Style & Design'
> > >> which explained how to structure an application and
> > >> how to develop it. Unfortunately this book is hard
> > >> to get and very expensive.
>
> > Hmm, that's a shame. I've been pondering this very topic
> > recently. Even though my code-corpus isn't very large it's starting
> > to look a bit raggedy.
>
> > I remember Kenny posted a link about coding style (where to put the
> > brackets, common idioms, etc) sometime back but I can't find it.
> > Does anyone have any links to share on the topic?
>
> parts of what you want to do is one of the most harmful activity in
> coding.
>
> See a recent post i paste below:
>
> --------------------------------------
>
> by boxquote you mean ascii-picture box like the following?
>
> #+----------------------------------------+
> #| the following deal with user interface |
> #+----------------------------------------+
>
> I think that's the worst coding practice. In essence, it is a form of
> hard-wired formatting. As a result, it is inflexible and prevents
> machine parsing.
>
> As the evolution of SGML, html, css, xml, have shown it the past 20
> years, what you want is syntax based markup, not hard-wired format
> presentation.
>
> The conventional newsgroup quoting of prefixing “>” is a form of hard-
> wired quoting. As we know, it's very problematic.
>
> As another example, Java's inline doc convention, is a form towards
> markup, so that it can be machine parsed (by javadoc).
>
> Lisp's syntax is also more markup based (due to the parens). One
> superb advantage coming out of this is the lisp macros. Similar is
> today's huge XML movement that spawned a huge number of related
> technologies thanks to its regularity too. On the other hand, most
> imperative lang's syntax is hard-wired, and highly irregular.
>
> so-called raster based image format vs so-called vector based image
> format are another example of hard-wired vs markup concepts.
>
> The basic difference between hard-wired presentation and markup is
> that the later embeds or retains infomation.
>
> See the following articles for full expositions of examples,
> implications, consequences:
>
> • The Harm of Hard-wrapping Lines
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/hard-wrap.html
>
> • Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/tabs_vs_spaces.html
>
> • A Simple Lisp Code Formatter
> http://xahlee.org/emacs/lisp_formatter.html
>
> • Fundamental Problems of Lisp
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lisp_problems.html
> (the section Syntax Irregularities)
>
> • The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
> Nested Notations
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html
>
> Xah
> ∑http://xahlee.org/
>
> ☄
Xah Lee, I hold up a mirror to your soul!
In 2006, after a two-year history of posting mostly harmless and on-
topic posts to various Usenet groups, you began to unload huge dollops
of philosophy, long rants, and other tripe upon numerous newsgroups
from all over the net, though you have especially cursed the comp.*
newsgroups and gnu.emacs.help. One of your earliest is:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/48d37d8aaa1afdf7?dmode=source
and was cross-posted to what would eventually become your usual set of
newsgroups to spam. This one was long, but not too unreasonable and
reasonably on-topic, though it would have been better posted to an
algorithms newsgroup instead of a smattering of different specific-
language groups.
As time passed, your "rant" posts got longer, more heavily promotional
of your web site, more off-topic for the groups to which they got
cross-posted, and more likely to start long drawn-out flamewars with
much of the even-more-OT vitriol directed at you.
Now you have the dubious honor of being in more killfiles than almost
any other regular of comp.lang.*, except perhaps for JSH!
The crown jewel of your trollish posts, however, just about has to be
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.emacs/msg/40734a30f9717270?dmode=source
which you cross-posted to the same five newsgroups as you all-too-
often do. This post was completely off-topic in all of the groups --
even the lisp group, since it didn't particularly deal with elisp. It
was chock full of such horrible formatting as:
> * Reduce the use of the word =E2=80=9Cbuffer=E2=80=9D in the emacs docu=
> mentation.
> Call it =E2=80=9Copened file=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cunsaved document=E2=80=9D.
which is virtually unreadable to any sane human being. Of course, it
pimped your web site heavily, and, as usual, it got flamed. What makes
it the crown jewel is the sheer magnitude of the consequences: over
four hundred news posts were eventually posted to the heavily-
crossposted OT thread you started, most of them flames and many of
them devoid of any redeeming characteristics whatsoever. This flamewar
lives in infamy in several of the newsgroups you started it in, and
indeed it only fails to do so in the ones in which it was overshadowed
by even worse flamewars.
If you have an excuse for your behavior, please speak now, and give
your apology before the witnesses gathered here.
If you do not, then know that your soul is forever tainted!