I'm just reading old blog posts about Reddit dropping Lisp. Several of their
problems were apparently solved in commercial Lisp implementations (Franz,
LispWorks, is that it?). Why didn't they just pay for a decent Lisp
implementation? Were the other problems impossible to overcome?
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u
On 23 set, 00:22, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> Why didn't they just pay for a decent Lisp
> implementation?
Because they are cheap bastards and Python is free beer that everyone
enjoys.
namekuseijin wrote:
> On 23 set, 00:22, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>> Why didn't they just pay for a decent Lisp
>> implementation?
>
> Because they are cheap bastards and Python is free beer that everyone
> enjoys.
Reddit seems to get a lot of traffic and obviously carries advertising so, I
assume, they have plenty of money. So I don't understand why they wouldn't
spend a bit on making their site (product) better.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u
On Sep 22, 9:13 pm, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> namekuseijin wrote:
> > On 23 set, 00:22, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> >> Why didn't they just pay for a decent Lisp
> >> implementation?
>
> > Because they are cheap bastards and Python is free beer that everyone
> > enjoys.
>
> Reddit seems to get a lot of traffic and obviously carries advertising so, I
> assume, they have plenty of money. So I don't understand why they wouldn't
> spend a bit on making their site (product) better.
I don't understand why you troll in c.l.l where you are disdained.
Some things are beyond understanding. I assume the reddit guys just
gave up. I wish you would.
Cheers.
drewc
>
> --
> Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 05:13:19 +0100, Jon Harrop <···@ffconsultancy.com> tried to
confuse everyone with this message:
>namekuseijin wrote:
>> On 23 set, 00:22, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>>> Why didn't they just pay for a decent Lisp
>>> implementation?
>>
>> Because they are cheap bastards and Python is free beer that everyone
>> enjoys.
>
>Reddit seems to get a lot of traffic and obviously carries advertising so, I
>assume, they have plenty of money. So I don't understand why they wouldn't
>spend a bit on making their site (product) better.
>
They didn't have that much money back then. That was before they got bought by
Conde Nast.
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> They didn't have that much money back then. That was before they got
> bought by Conde Nast.
Ah, ok. Any idea how much money they made from the sale?
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u
JH> I'm just reading old blog posts about Reddit dropping Lisp. Several of
JH> their problems were apparently solved in commercial Lisp
JH> implementations (Franz, LispWorks, is that it?).
but probably some were not?
even if commercial Lisp fixes their current problems, they
might have more in future -- but it would be harder to do
a switch if they have already invested into platform.
JH> Were the other problems impossible to overcome?
i think they just had more confidence in Python than in commercial Lisps --
there are much more success stories for Python sites than for Lisp sites.
together with Python being totally free..
afaik now they are using Pylons web framework -- to my knowledge
there is no such for Lisp, with same level of maturity i mean (with all
my respect to Lisp web frameworks..)
JH> Reddit seems to get a lot of traffic and obviously carries advertising
so, I
JH> assume, they have plenty of money.
note that when they made those decisions they didn't had "plenty of money".
at same time lispworks licenses for a couple of servers + developer seats
is quite substantial amount of money for small startup with little funding.
also if they planned growth, paying for each new server appears to be
counter-attractive..
On Sep 23, 10:03 am, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> JH> I'm just reading old blog posts about Reddit dropping Lisp. Several of
> JH> their problems were apparently solved in commercial Lisp
> JH> implementations (Franz, LispWorks, is that it?).
>
> but probably some were not?
> even if commercial Lisp fixes their current problems, they
> might have more in future -- but it would be harder to do
> a switch if they have already invested into platform.
>
> JH> Were the other problems impossible to overcome?
>
> i think they just had more confidence in Python than in commercial Lisps --
> there are much more success stories for Python sites than for Lisp sites.
> together with Python being totally free..
>
> afaik now they are using Pylons web framework -- to my knowledge
> there is no such for Lisp, with same level of maturity i mean (with all
> my respect to Lisp web frameworks..)
>
> JH> Reddit seems to get a lot of traffic and obviously carries advertising
> so, I
> JH> assume, they have plenty of money.
>
> note that when they made those decisions they didn't had "plenty of money".
> at same time lispworks licenses for a couple of servers + developer seats
> is quite substantial amount of money for small startup with little funding.
Why don't you do the simplest form of fact checking before you post?
Actually the most substantial amount of money somebody pays is for
'people'. I personally would work with as few people as possible
given them good tools. Sometimes open source is good enough, sometimes
you get faster results developing with something like LispWorks or
Allegro CL.
> also if they planned growth, paying for each new server appears to be
> counter-attractive..
There are NO runtime license fees for LispWorks on Linux, FreeBSD,
Windows, Mac and 64bit Solaris.
That should cover the main architectures where one would want to run a
LispWorks
application.
(There are runtime license fees for LispWorks on HP/UX and 32bit
Solaris.)
Plus: it is relatively easy to create applications with LispWorks.
See the delivery manual:
http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/DV/html/deluser.htm
There even is a GUI tool for that task.
http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLWUG-U/html/clwuser-u-552.htm
So, if you have a server farm with 1000 linux machines and 5
developers, you pay for
the five developers using LispWorks (usually license plus
maintenance). The LispWorks applications
running on the 1000 linux machines don't cost anything then - no
runtime license fees.
LispWorks has a personal edition, but they also offer trial licenses
to try out the full thing.
Franz also can give trial licenses.
On Sep 23, 1:55 am, ·······@corporate-world.lisp.de" <······@corporate-
world.lisp.de> wrote:
> On Sep 23, 10:03 am, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > JH> I'm just reading old blog posts about Reddit dropping Lisp. Several of
> > JH> their problems were apparently solved in commercial Lisp
> > JH> implementations (Franz, LispWorks, is that it?).
>
> > but probably some were not?
> > even if commercial Lisp fixes their current problems, they
> > might have more in future -- but it would be harder to do
> > a switch if they have already invested into platform.
>
> > JH> Were the other problems impossible to overcome?
>
> > i think they just had more confidence in Python than in commercial Lisps --
> > there are much more success stories for Python sites than for Lisp sites.
> > together with Python being totally free..
>
> > afaik now they are using Pylons web framework -- to my knowledge
> > there is no such for Lisp, with same level of maturity i mean (with all
> > my respect to Lisp web frameworks..)
>
> > JH> Reddit seems to get a lot of traffic and obviously carries advertising
> > so, I
> > JH> assume, they have plenty of money.
>
> > note that when they made those decisions they didn't had "plenty of money".
> > at same time lispworks licenses for a couple of servers + developer seats
> > is quite substantial amount of money for small startup with little funding.
>
> Why don't you do the simplest form of fact checking before you post?
>
> Actually the most substantial amount of money somebody pays is for
> 'people'. I personally would work with as few people as possible
> given them good tools. Sometimes open source is good enough, sometimes
> you get faster results developing with something like LispWorks or
> Allegro CL.
>
> > also if they planned growth, paying for each new server appears to be
> > counter-attractive..
>
> There are NO runtime license fees for LispWorks on Linux, FreeBSD,
> Windows, Mac and 64bit Solaris.
>
> That should cover the main architectures where one would want to run a
> LispWorks
> application.
> (There are runtime license fees for LispWorks on HP/UX and 32bit
> Solaris.)
>
> Plus: it is relatively easy to create applications with LispWorks.
> See the delivery manual:
> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/DV/html/deluser.htm
> There even is a GUI tool for that task.
> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLWUG-U/html/clwuser-u-55...
>
> So, if you have a server farm with 1000 linux machines and 5
> developers, you pay for
> the five developers using LispWorks (usually license plus
> maintenance). The LispWorks applications
> running on the 1000 linux machines don't cost anything then - no
> runtime license fees.
>
> LispWorks has a personal edition, but they also offer trial licenses
> to try out the full thing.
> Franz also can give trial licenses.
no one wants commercial stuff
they want bsd licensed great free software tools
??>> note that when they made those decisions they didn't had "plenty of
??>> money". at same time lispworks licenses for a couple of servers +
??>> developer seats is quite substantial amount of money for small startup
??>> with little funding.
j> Why don't you do the simplest form of fact checking before you post?
j> Actually the most substantial amount of money somebody pays is for
j> 'people'.
reddit was YC-funded startup that time, iirc. YC does not invest much --
something
like $10k "on everything". Lispworks licenses could easily eat substantial
amount of
this sum. note that from that sum they also had to rent servers, feed
themselves etc.
j> I personally would work with as few people as possible given them good
j> tools.
j> Sometimes open source is good enough, sometimes you get faster results
j> developing with something like LispWorks or Allegro CL.
right. i'm afraid web-site building are not strongest sides of
Lispworks/ACL,
at least i've seen no evidences for it. benefits of commercial
implementations
can be outweighted by huge potential of open source community developing
various libraries mainly for open source implementations, so it's hard to
tell.
one thing is to pay $$$ if you're sure you're buying far better tools and
another
is to pay them for something that is vaguely better.
??>> also if they planned growth, paying for each new server appears to be
??>> counter-attractive..
j> There are NO runtime license fees for LispWorks on Linux, FreeBSD,
j> Windows, Mac and 64bit Solaris.
that's good, but still..
j> Plus: it is relatively easy to create applications with LispWorks.
i can say i don't have problems with SBCL either, in context of web stuff
On 23 Set, 16:07, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> wtf? i've quoted text i'm responding to, with initials JH.
> guess what does it mean?
Do there exist Rhetoric Questions?
On 24 Set, 14:22, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> ??>> wtf? i've quoted text i'm responding to, with initials JH.
> ??>> guess what does it mean?
>
> jhm> Do there exist Rhetoric Questions?
>
> fuck you.
OK.
Jon Harrop wrote:
> I'm just reading old blog posts about Reddit dropping Lisp. Several of their
> problems were apparently solved in commercial Lisp implementations (Franz,
> LispWorks, is that it?). Why didn't they just pay for a decent Lisp
> implementation? Were the other problems impossible to overcome?
>
Because you are stupid.
Any fool could see they pretended to use Lisp so they could get money
from PG then used the first excuse (to save face) to change to the tool
Their Guy(tm) happened to know.
Do I have to explain everything to You Dolts(tm)?
kzo
In 2008, there happened:
>.
>> ..
>>> ...
Summarizing, this thread got it really very close to many reddit
submissions:
- comments begging title
- most posts are pointless
- time to switch to other news combinators (y not)