On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 15:40 -0700, cartercc wrote:
> Right now, Lisp doesn't seem to have the same kind of RE facility that
> I use in processing data files,
You haven't seen CL-PPCRE? http://www.weitz.de/cl-ppcre/
> and doesn't seem to be embedded in HTML like ColdFusion.
.."embedded in HTML"? Have you seen CL-WHO? http://www.weitz.de/cl-who/
..in SymbolicWeb I mix CL-WHO or raw HTML from files (whatever I want;
say, templating via the ID attribute) and widgets by using the :SW
keyword:
(defmethod render-view ((view view) (chat-app chat-app))
(add-to (root)
(with-html-container ()
(:p "Type something and press enter to send. New content is added at the top.")
(:sw (input-of chat-app))
(:sw (chat-pane-of chat-app)))))
..from http://sw.nostdal.org/chat (complete source; http://common-lisp.net/~lnostdal/programming/lisp/symbolicweb/examples/chat.lisp ).
..can ColdFusion do this?
But, uh, I don't think you came from Java to Lisp because of lack of
libraries in Java...
--
Lars Rune Nøstdal || AJAX/Comet GUI type stuff for Common Lisp
http://nostdal.org/ || http://groups.google.com/group/symbolicweb
On Oct 20, 7:02 pm, Lars Rune Nøstdal <···········@gmail.com> wrote:
> But, uh, I don't think you came from Java to Lisp because of lack of
> libraries in Java...
I came to Lisp in part because of Graham's essay 'Beating the
Averages' wherein he claims that Lisp was the secret weapon that allow
him to create a product that he was able to sell for $89M after only a
year IIRC.
I am a full time employee and a full time student and I don't have a
lot of discretionary time, but right now learning enough about Lisp to
give it an honest evaluation is at the very top of my discretionary
priorities.
(Off the topic -- I can't understand why my admission that (1) I don't
know Lisp, (2) I am attempting to master Lisp, and (3) I am finding it
difficult, raises so much hostility in c.l.l. I'm beginning to think
that there is a segment of the Lisp community that believes that, if
you don't know Lisp, you shouldn't learn it. This is a rather stupid
and short sighted approach to the future of any technology.)
CC
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:47:40 -0700, cartercc wrote:
> (Off the topic -- I can't understand why my admission that (1) I don't
> know Lisp, (2) I am attempting to master Lisp, and (3) I am finding it
> difficult, raises so much hostility in c.l.l. I'm beginning to think
> that there is a segment of the Lisp community that believes that, if you
> don't know Lisp, you shouldn't learn it. This is a rather stupid and
> short sighted approach to the future of any technology.)
There is possibly a segment of the Lisp community which believes that if
you read four books on any subject and still don't have a clue on what it
is good for, then it is your problem.
Tamas
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 16:47 -0700, cartercc wrote:
> On Oct 20, 7:02 pm, Lars Rune Nøstdal <···········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > But, uh, I don't think you came from Java to Lisp because of lack of
> > libraries in Java...
>
> I came to Lisp in part because of Graham's essay 'Beating the
> Averages' wherein he claims that Lisp was the secret weapon that allow
> him to create a product that he was able to sell for $89M after only a
> year IIRC.
Big, quick, easy money is more connected with luck than skills or tools.
Money? Reminds me of this (Zeitgeist 2, or addendum):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912 .. also see
the first one if you haven't already .. totally off-topic this, but OK.
> I am a full time employee and a full time student and I don't have a
> lot of discretionary time, but right now learning enough about Lisp to
> give it an honest evaluation is at the very top of my discretionary
> priorities.
> (Off the topic -- I can't understand why
..maybe this is connected with your first problem. Ever thought of that?
> my admission that (1) I don't know Lisp, (2) I am attempting to
> master Lisp,
.."is Java really that much more useful than Lisp?" from your first post
doesn't make sense combined with 3 years and the points you mention
here.
Again, you're lying; the things you say doesn't add up at all. Am I
being hostile now? ...
> and (3) I am finding it difficult, raises so much hostility in c.l.l.
> I'm beginning to think that there is a segment of the Lisp community
> that believes that, if you don't know Lisp, you shouldn't learn it.
"Community"? No, what's _your_ current practical problem? If you can't
focus on this, you're screwed.
--
Lars Rune Nøstdal || AJAX/Comet GUI type stuff for Common Lisp
http://nostdal.org/ || http://groups.google.com/group/symbolicweb
On Oct 20, 7:47 pm, cartercc <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 20, 7:02 pm, Lars Rune Nøstdal <···········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > But, uh, I don't think you came from Java to Lisp because of lack of
> > libraries in Java...
>
> I came to Lisp in part because of Graham's essay 'Beating the
> Averages' wherein he claims that Lisp was the secret weapon that allow
> him to create a product that he was able to sell for $89M after only a
> year IIRC.
>
> I am a full time employee and a full time student and I don't have a
> lot of discretionary time, but right now learning enough about Lisp to
> give it an honest evaluation is at the very top of my discretionary
> priorities.
Simple programming in lisp is simple and easy. The problem (for me)
is that lisp seems to be much, much deeper than other languages
(actually multi-orthogonal). As you keep programming, you will keep
hitting on things that you don't know yet. And when you learn those,
you will see that there are even more directions that you need to
learn.
The process is infuriatingly long, but at the same time filled with
wow's: I was recently programming some physics formulas, and (I
believe) started dabbling into symbolic programming (with macro's and
what not) in order to simplify the programming syntax. Suffice to
say, it works (I tested it on numerouos test cases), but I have to be
fully awake and brimming with caffeine to comprehend how and why.
(which also means that I need to clean it up & refactor a bit)
I am surprised that practical common lisp left you cold. I think it
is both an excellent intro, and language guide. Most of the questions
I ask here, I find have been answered there - I just keep re-reading
it.
Mirko
<·············@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>
> I am surprised that practical common lisp left you cold. I think it
> is both an excellent intro, and language guide. Most of the questions
> I ask here, I find have been answered there - I just keep re-reading
> it.
>
PCL is a great second book on Lisp, IMO. It really needs a set of
exercises at the end of each chapter to test and challenge the reader.