Hi folks,
I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
can help me.
Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's X86-64)?
A bit off-topic, but I know lots of people here might know that stuff,
and I couldn't find better place to ask.
Thanks,
Dimiter "malkia" Stanev,
Senior Software Engineer,
Treyarch, Activision.
······@treyarch.com
······@gmail.com
······@mac.com
On Oct 17, 11:34 am, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com>
wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
> can help me.
>
> Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
> AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's X86-64)?
I don't know. But I can't resist asking: why does it matter that
you're running in 64-bit mode if you can't fit more than 4GB of DRAM
in the machine?
-- Scott
Scott Burson wrote:
> On Oct 17, 11:34 am, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
>> can help me.
>>
>> Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
>> AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's X86-64)?
>
> I don't know. But I can't resist asking: why does it matter that
> you're running in 64-bit mode if you can't fit more than 4GB of DRAM
> in the machine?
>
> -- Scott
I'm hoping that my fixnums are going to be bigger and hold full 32bit
value (at least) and more. And also my single-floats (not sure about it).
Also the X86-64 architecture has more registers, and other features that
probably a lisp compiler would reuse better.
I'm totally thinking of leaving the 32-bit in the dust, and totally
moving to 64-bit.
And then more virtual memory - even if your RAM is going to be only 2GB
or 4GB, I guess now you can if you want to use more than that.
On Oct 17, 6:17 pm, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com>
wrote:
> Scott Burson wrote:
> > On Oct 17, 11:34 am, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Hi folks,
>
> >> I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
> >> can help me.
>
> >> Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
> >> AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's X86-64)?
>
> > I don't know. But I can't resist asking: why does it matter that
> > you're running in 64-bit mode if you can't fit more than 4GB of DRAM
> > in the machine?
>
> I'm hoping that my fixnums are going to be bigger and hold full 32bit
> value (at least) and more. And also my single-floats (not sure about it).
>
> Also the X86-64 architecture has more registers, and other features that
> probably a lisp compiler would reuse better.
True. But the other side is, most objects except strings are twice as
large. This means you need twice as much DRAM to hold the same amount
of data -- which is a massive waste unless you're really using the
extra address space. It also effectively cuts your cache size in
half, which for many applications eats up a lot of the gains you got
from extra registers (depending on the cache size, of course).
I could sortof imagine a high-end laptop with 8GB of DRAM which it
might make sense to run in 64-bit mode, though I'm not sure anyone's
building that yet. But a subnotebook? With limited memory _and_ a
slow disk to use for paging? I think this would be quite pointless.
You'll get much better performance in 32-bit mode.
-- Scott
In article
<····································@t18g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
Scott Burson <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 6:17�pm, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com>
> wrote:
> > Scott Burson wrote:
> > > On Oct 17, 11:34 am, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Hi folks,
> >
> > >> I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
> > >> can help me.
> >
> > >> Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
> > >> AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's X86-64)?
> >
> > > I don't know. �But I can't resist asking: why does it matter that
> > > you're running in 64-bit mode if you can't fit more than 4GB of DRAM
> > > in the machine?
> >
> > I'm hoping that my fixnums are going to be bigger and hold full 32bit
> > value (at least) and more. And also my single-floats (not sure about it).
> >
> > Also the X86-64 architecture has more registers, and other features that
> > probably a lisp compiler would reuse better.
>
> True. But the other side is, most objects except strings are twice as
> large. This means you need twice as much DRAM to hold the same amount
> of data -- which is a massive waste unless you're really using the
> extra address space. It also effectively cuts your cache size in
> half, which for many applications eats up a lot of the gains you got
> from extra registers (depending on the cache size, of course).
>
> I could sortof imagine a high-end laptop with 8GB of DRAM which it
> might make sense to run in 64-bit mode, though I'm not sure anyone's
> building that yet. But a subnotebook? With limited memory _and_ a
> slow disk to use for paging? I think this would be quite pointless.
> You'll get much better performance in 32-bit mode.
>
> -- Scott
a data point: LispWorks 64bit generally runs twice as fast as LispWorks 32bit
on my MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo.
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org/
On Oct 18, 1:07 am, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
>
> a data point: LispWorks 64bit generally runs twice as fast as LispWorks 32bit
> on my MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo.
That's a surprise. I have not read of the Conroe chips generally
being that much faster in 64-bit mode. I wonder if other CL
implementations would show the same speedup.
But my comments about object size still hold. You will fill main
memory faster in 64 bits, and thrashing on a subnotebook is not going
to be a pleasant experience.
-- Scott
Scott Burson <········@gmail.com> writes:
> That's a surprise. I have not read of the Conroe chips generally
> being that much faster in 64-bit mode. I wonder if other CL
> implementations would show the same speedup.
I haven't done any comparative tests on my MacBook Pro yet, but on our
linux servers, 64 bit LW on Core 2 seems to be (at least for one of
our simple benchmarks) about 75% faster than 32 bit LW on 32 bit linux
on Core 2. On Opteron, the 64 bit advantage isn't equally good.
> But my comments about object size still hold. You will fill main
> memory faster in 64 bits, and thrashing on a subnotebook is not going
> to be a pleasant experience.
The memory management of 64 bit LW is better than that of 32 bit LW,
so this isn't necessarily true - our experience is that it's not.
--
(espen)
On Oct 18, 3:34 am, "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com>
wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
> can help me.
>
> Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
> AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's X86-64)?
>
> A bit off-topic, but I know lots of people here might know that stuff,
> and I couldn't find better place to ask.
>
> Thanks,
> Dimiter "malkia" Stanev,
> Senior Software Engineer,
> Treyarch, Activision.
> ······@treyarch.com
> ······@gmail.com
> ······@mac.com
That's simple to me, because i am using it now. :-)
1. your subnotebook must support usb-boot.
2. http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
3. choose slitaz
4. choose lfs-livecd for amd64
5. http://forum.slitaz.org/viewtopic.php?id=723
TIA
After long search through teh internet, I think I've found what I
need:
Raon Digital's "Everun Note" (the successor to Everun).
It features AMD Turion 64x2 (which is AMD64 machine).
malkia <······@gmail.com> writes:
> It features AMD Turion 64x2 (which is AMD64 machine).
It may vary a lot with the lisp implementation, but at least 64 bit LW
runs way faster on our Core 2 servers than on our Opterons.
--
(espen)
"Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com> writes:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
> can help me.
>
> Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
> AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's
> X86-64)?
I notice the mac.com address, so I assume you really need Linux and that
therefore Darwin doesn't help you. But is there a 64-bit Linux that
could be used on a MacBook Air? It seems that at the least, one could
use Bootcamp to boot into such a partition -- at least a cursory Google
search seems to indicate this.
--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute
Hi Thomas,
Thanks for the suggestion. I was actually thinking of getting MacBook
Air, but I do already have a 17" MacBook Pro, and I was just looking for
really small machine (7" or less) that could still be usable (has
keyboard, you can type on it, etc.).
Ideally I wish there was a usable machine, close to something like my
HTC Universal phone (a nice little machine, bulky phone, and ugly almost
unusable OS - WM5) - it has keyboard, and although it's quite big for a
phone, it's still really small, and you can put in your pocket.
As for the 64-bit stuff, I'm just trying to squeeze a little more range
from the fixnum and hopefully single-floats (I have yet to test whether
single-floats on 64-bit machine cons less on various implementations).
I've put an order for the Everun Note (dynamism.com) and hopefully it
would arrive soon.
I can give more details of what I've been able to put on it, and how it
works (If it does), off course if anyone is interrested.
I'll be mainly evaluating OpenMCL-64bit, and free version of SCL 64bit
too, SBCL 64-bit. Unfortunately there is no Personal 64bit version of
LW, and I'm not sure about ACL.
Here is the little beast:
http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/everun-note-full-review
Thomas A. Russ wrote:
> "Dimiter \"malkia\" Stanev" <······@mac.com> writes:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I'm looking for something that might not exist, but I guess people here
>> can help me.
>>
>> Is there any subnotebook (mini-laptop whatever) (like recent Eee, Wind,
>> AspireOne, etc) that runs in X86-64 mode (either AMD64 or Intel's
>> X86-64)?
>
> I notice the mac.com address, so I assume you really need Linux and that
> therefore Darwin doesn't help you. But is there a 64-bit Linux that
> could be used on a MacBook Air? It seems that at the least, one could
> use Bootcamp to boot into such a partition -- at least a cursory Google
> search seems to indicate this.
>