From: Kenny
Subject: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a2b62a$0$20924$607ed4bc@cv.net>
*default-pathname-defaults*?????

What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great they 
named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value was special.

:)

kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/

From: Dan Weinreb
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <fe147738-7c95-478e-aed0-22391090de20@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 13, 6:23 am, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great they
> named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value was special.
>
> :)
>
> kt
>
> --
>
> $$$$$:http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
> Cells:http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
> BSlog:http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/

I once suggested a feature for the Lisp machine that would have a
global variable that would hold the "Default default defaults".
Marvin Minsky overhead me and said he thought that would be a great
name for an academic paper.  So far I know he never wrote a paper
named that, though.

-- Dan
From: Duane Rettig
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <o0fxp90ynj.fsf@gemini.franz.com>
Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:

> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> was special.
>
> :)

Not only that, but how is it grouped?  Is it default-pathname defaults
or default pathname-defaults?  Where are lisp's parentheses when we
need them?

-- 
Duane Rettig    ·····@franz.com    Franz Inc.  http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450               http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607        Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182   
From: Marco Antoniotti
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <104b8dda-d2f9-497b-8003-7b1cec073f2a@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 13, 10:37 am, Duane Rettig <·····@franz.com> wrote:
> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> > *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> > What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> > they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> > was special.
>
> > :)
>
> Not only that, but how is it grouped?  Is it default-pathname defaults
> or default pathname-defaults?  Where are lisp's parentheses when we
> need them?

... and now for the serious bit/bait.

What is the default device for a pathname representing a name on a
windows file system?  (I am devious.  I know!)

Cheers
--
Marco
From: ······@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <ed052d5b-4545-4df2-97a5-91fc9dc76f8d@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 13, 7:37 am, Duane Rettig <·····@franz.com> wrote:
> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> > *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> > What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> > they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> > was special.
>
> > :)
>
> Not only that, but how is it grouped?  Is it default-pathname defaults
> or default pathname-defaults?  Where are lisp's parentheses when we
> need them?

besides the grouping, there's also the issue of ordinal of order. For
example, is there then default default default default?

for another example, there's lisp macros. Then is there macro of
macros or 2nd order macros?

For example, there's first order logic. Then there's 2nd order logic,
or generally just called higher order logic.

being a amature logician... i haven't read much about what happens
with 2nd or 3rd or higher order of logic... how they fit into the
whole subject of logic, to what extent they are useful within logic,
etc.

i must thank Kenny for being a potshot troll to bring us things to
converse in this lonely club.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄
From: Pascal J. Bourguignon
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <7chc9pgq8z.fsf@pbourguignon.anevia.com>
Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:

> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> was special.

Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
parameter.

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a2c545$0$20930$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>
>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>> was special.
> 
> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
> parameter.
> 

And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!

:)

kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
From: Paul Tarvydas
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <g7uqop$cv6$1@aioe.org>
Kenny wrote:

> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!

A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a2fa8e$0$29500$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Paul Tarvydas wrote:
> Kenny wrote:
> 
>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
> 
> A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.

You mean nth-symbol-value works on specials?

Cool!

kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
From: Paul Tarvydas
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <g844lc$541$1@aioe.org>
Kenny wrote:

> Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>> Kenny wrote:
>> 
>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>> 
>> A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.
> 
> You mean nth-symbol-value works on specials?

Only in the fourth dimension (time) and only when n=1.
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a59dab$0$20919$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Paul Tarvydas wrote:
> Kenny wrote:
> 
>> Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>>> Kenny wrote:
>>>
>>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>> A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.
>> You mean nth-symbol-value works on specials?
> 
> Only in the fourth dimension (time) and only when n=1.
> 

Speaking of 1, can you believe PROG1 is off by one?! It returns the 
zeroth form!!! I say we rotate everyone down one, start where we should 
start, PROG0. What is not clear is whether PROGN becomes PROGN-1.

kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
From: Paul Tarvydas
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <g89ja8$4lc$1@aioe.org>
Kenny wrote:

> Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>> Kenny wrote:
>> 
>>> Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>>>> Kenny wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>>> A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.
>>> You mean nth-symbol-value works on specials?
>> 
>> Only in the fourth dimension (time) and only when n=1.
>> 
> 
> Speaking of 1, can you believe PROG1 is off by one?! It returns the
> zeroth form!!! I say we rotate everyone down one, start where we should
> start, PROG0. What is not clear is whether PROGN becomes PROGN-1.

Well, from another perspective, we might conclude that CL, like APL, has an
adjustable index origin, but the designers neglected to expose it as an
operator and didn't document which origin was being used at syntax-design
time...
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a2fcd2$0$29509$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Paul Tarvydas wrote:
> Kenny wrote:
> 
>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
> 
> A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.

btw, if you didnt get my email once you might not get it twice. I am 
responding, it aint bouncing -- check your junk folder? What I am saying is:

exe? should be there
dxls? ask franz, that's how they deliver runtimes, including their own
win2k? I hear from others it does not work there

igtdh,kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
From: ········@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <e1f7b792-cc67-46e1-9dbf-e7a394663e06@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
On 13 Ago, 17:25, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> win2k? I hear from others it does not work there

All of *real-world-application-applications-developer-developers*
don't need to care about W2K, because we all W2Ks still hanging around
will never spend any cent/time/googling/hacking in any future MS
attempt of OS (and so you've lost us already, much previous the time
you started thinking of your app...

-PM
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a31548$0$20910$607ed4bc@cv.net>
········@gmail.com wrote:
> On 13 Ago, 17:25, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>> win2k? I hear from others it does not work there
> 
> All of *real-world-application-applications-developer-developers*
> don't need to care about W2K, because we all W2Ks still hanging around
> will never spend any cent/time/googling/hacking in any future MS
> attempt of OS (and so you've lost us already, much previous the time
> you started thinking of your app...
> 
> -PM

Omigod! It's true?! There /are/ parallel universes?!!!!

And they all share the same Usenet?

Too cool.

kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
From: ········@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <657e7d45-06f3-43d9-a6c7-f56dc8e88591@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>
On 13 Ago, 19:09, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Omigod! It's true?! There /are/ parallel universes?!!!!
>
> And they all share the same Usenet?
>
> Too cool.

Nobody ever thinks about the *time-machine-time* involved in this
*super-high-tech-process*.

Even our time-machines waste some actual cycles in the *time-machine-
machines*...

But, since they are all done in Lisp (yes, CL), the *lost-in-time-
constant-variable* is not easily predictable, sorry...

-PM
From: Pascal J. Bourguignon
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <7c8wv1ghkj.fsf@pbourguignon.anevia.com>
Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:

> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>
>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>> was special.
>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>> parameter.
>> 
>
> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!

The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
default.

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <7e59741d-cd57-4024-9113-8b3f38accc1b@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 13, 3:39 pm, ····@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
wrote:
> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> > Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
> >> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> >>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> >>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> >>> was special.
> >> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
> >> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
> >> parameter.
>
> > And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>
> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
> default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
> default.

I see no reason why it couldn't be called *pathname-defaults*, so I'm
with Kenny, Lisp has a stutter.
From: Pascal Costanza
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <6gg86aFfr0ipU1@mid.individual.net>
Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> On Aug 13, 3:39 pm, ····@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
> wrote:
>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>>>> was special.
>>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
>>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>>>> parameter.
>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
>> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
>> default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
>> default.
> 
> I see no reason why it couldn't be called *pathname-defaults*, so I'm
> with Kenny, Lisp has a stutter.

MERGE-PATHNAMES accepts an optional parameter that can be used to 
specify pathname defaults. *default-pathname-defaults* is the default 
value for that parameter if it doesn't receive any actual argument.

Do you guys also worry about important problems?



Pascal

-- 
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <7ba88c9b-0ce4-4037-8dce-b9ab56a15aab@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <····@p-cos.net> wrote:
> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 3:39 pm, ····@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
> > wrote:
> >> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> >>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
> >>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
> >>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> >>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> >>>>> was special.
> >>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
> >>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
> >>>> parameter.
> >>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
> >> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
> >> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
> >> default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
> >> default.
>
> > I see no reason why it couldn't be called *pathname-defaults*, so I'm
> > with Kenny, Lisp has a stutter.
>
> MERGE-PATHNAMES accepts an optional parameter that can be used to
> specify pathname defaults. *default-pathname-defaults* is the default
> value for that parameter if it doesn't receive any actual argument.

Thank you captain obvious? I still don't see why it couldn't be called
*pathname-defaults*. Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
were called *default-readtable*.

> Do you guys also worry about important problems?

Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a31bdf$0$20923$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <····@p-cos.net> wrote:
>> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
>>> On Aug 13, 3:39 pm, ····@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
>>> wrote:
>>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>>>>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>>>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>>>>>> was special.
>>>>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
>>>>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>>>>>> parameter.
>>>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>>> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
>>>> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
>>>> default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
>>>> default.
>>> I see no reason why it couldn't be called *pathname-defaults*, so I'm
>>> with Kenny, Lisp has a stutter.
>> MERGE-PATHNAMES accepts an optional parameter that can be used to
>> specify pathname defaults. *default-pathname-defaults* is the default
>> value for that parameter if it doesn't receive any actual argument.
> 
> Thank you captain obvious? I still don't see why it couldn't be called
> *pathname-defaults*. 

Or, what are the /other/ pathname defaults that must be distinguished 
from the default pathname defaults?

> Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
> will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
> were called *default-readtable*.
> 
>> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
> 
> Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?

Or, is he allowed to complain about a deliberately silly thread and 
contribute to it seriously at the same time? I'd like to see a yellow 
card here...

No, the real answer is that Lisp is so good that things like this stand 
out and I suspected there might be either something to learn or some fun 
history to be had from kmp.

kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <e92ad4ca-3290-4c88-97ec-2622fcf4b611@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 13, 7:37 pm, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <····@p-cos.net> wrote:
>
> >> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
>
> > Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
>
> Or, is he allowed to complain about a deliberately silly thread and
> contribute to it seriously at the same time? I'd like to see a yellow
> card here...

Do those work? I thought the only ones that ever did anything were the
ones that Kent gives himself. On the second one, he's out.

> No, the real answer is that Lisp is so good that things like this stand
> out and I suspected there might be either something to learn or some fun
> history to be had from kmp.

Yeah, I'm still hoping for an old-timer to explain the history behind
this particular name (maybe there were a variety of pathname defaults
on the LispM?). It could just be redundantly redundant, though.
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a34cea$0$29513$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> On Aug 13, 7:37 pm, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
>>> On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <····@p-cos.net> wrote:
>>>> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
>>> Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
>> Or, is he allowed to complain about a deliberately silly thread and
>> contribute to it seriously at the same time? I'd like to see a yellow
>> card here...
> 
> Do those work? I thought the only ones that ever did anything were the
> ones that Kent gives himself. On the second one, he's out.
> 
>> No, the real answer is that Lisp is so good that things like this stand
>> out and I suspected there might be either something to learn or some fun
>> history to be had from kmp.
> 
> Yeah, I'm still hoping for an old-timer to explain the history behind
> this particular name (maybe there were a variety of pathname defaults
> on the LispM?). It could just be redundantly redundant, though.
> 

Reminds me of William Safire's nickname for the imagined team sending in 
fodder for his NY Times "On Language" column: "The Squad Squad".

kt

-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
From: Pascal Costanza
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <6ggms3FfththU1@mid.individual.net>
Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> On Aug 13, 7:37 pm, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
>>> On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <····@p-cos.net> wrote:
>>>> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
>>> Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
>> Or, is he allowed to complain about a deliberately silly thread and
>> contribute to it seriously at the same time? I'd like to see a yellow
>> card here...
> 
> Do those work? I thought the only ones that ever did anything were the
> ones that Kent gives himself. On the second one, he's out.
> 
>> No, the real answer is that Lisp is so good that things like this stand
>> out and I suspected there might be either something to learn or some fun
>> history to be had from kmp.
> 
> Yeah, I'm still hoping for an old-timer to explain the history behind
> this particular name (maybe there were a variety of pathname defaults
> on the LispM?). It could just be redundantly redundant, though.

Google is your friend.

 From the Lisp Machine Manual:

"*default-pathname-defaults*

This is the default defaults alist; if the pathname primitives that need 
a set of defaults are not give one, they use this one. Most programs, 
however, should have their own defaults rather than using these."

So: (a) originally it was an alist - that explains the plural; (b) every 
program should have its own defaults, so this is really just the default 
of the defaults - this stresses the exceptional case.

This may not be so important anymore nowadays where the use of 
Lisp-based operating systems is rare.


Pascal

-- 
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <joswig-401B5D.20271013082008@news-europe.giganews.com>
In article 
<····································@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
 "Thomas F. Burdick" <········@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 13, 7:37�pm, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> > > On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <····@p-cos.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
> >
> > > Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
> >
> > Or, is he allowed to complain about a deliberately silly thread and
> > contribute to it seriously at the same time? I'd like to see a yellow
> > card here...
> 
> Do those work? I thought the only ones that ever did anything were the
> ones that Kent gives himself. On the second one, he's out.
> 
> > No, the real answer is that Lisp is so good that things like this stand
> > out and I suspected there might be either something to learn or some fun
> > history to be had from kmp.
> 
> Yeah, I'm still hoping for an old-timer to explain the history behind
> this particular name (maybe there were a variety of pathname defaults
> on the LispM?). It could just be redundantly redundant, though.


There is a function fs:default-pathname .
It returns a default pathname based on some args.
*default-pathname-defaults* is a list of
defaults (per host and a default default) used by above function.

So *default-pathname-defaults* is a defaults alist
for the function default-pathname.

-- 
http://lispm.dyndns.org/
From: Pascal Costanza
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <6gglcuFfoprqU1@mid.individual.net>
Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <····@p-cos.net> wrote:
>> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
>>> On Aug 13, 3:39 pm, ····@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
>>> wrote:
>>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>>>>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>>>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>>>>>> was special.
>>>>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
>>>>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>>>>>> parameter.
>>>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>>> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
>>>> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
>>>> default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
>>>> default.
>>> I see no reason why it couldn't be called *pathname-defaults*, so I'm
>>> with Kenny, Lisp has a stutter.
>> MERGE-PATHNAMES accepts an optional parameter that can be used to
>> specify pathname defaults. *default-pathname-defaults* is the default
>> value for that parameter if it doesn't receive any actual argument.
> 
> Thank you captain obvious? 

Didn't seem obvious at first in this thread, did it?

> I still don't see why it couldn't be called
> *pathname-defaults*. Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
> will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
> were called *default-readtable*.

There is some talk about the standard readtable in the HyperSpec, but it 
is not stored in a special variable. Otherwise it would probably be 
called standard-readtable.

There are also entities like standard-class, standard-object, etc., 
where you could also argue that it's redundant to stress that they are 
"standard," so this kind of prefixing names with such adjectives is not 
_that_ unusual.

>> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
> 
> Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?

Not recently.


Pascal

-- 
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From: Rob Warnock
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <4IGdnZnGtaAenjjVnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@speakeasy.net>
Pascal Costanza  <··@p-cos.net> wrote:
+---------------
| Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
| > I still don't see why it couldn't be called
| > *pathname-defaults*. Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
| > will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
| > were called *default-readtable*.
| 
| There is some talk about the standard readtable in the HyperSpec, but it 
| is not stored in a special variable. Otherwise it would probably be 
| called standard-readtable.
+---------------

That's because it's not stored in a variable, but in a function call!!  ;-}

  Function COPY-READTABLE
  ...

  (copy-readtable nil) ==>
     ...[fresh fresh readtable with] standard Common Lisp syntax, even
     if the initial readtable has been clobbered (assuming it is not
     so badly clobbered that you cannot type in the above expression).


-Rob

-----
Rob Warnock			<····@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue			<URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403		(650)572-2607
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a2fa11$0$29521$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>>
>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>>> was special.
>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>>> parameter.
>>>
>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
> 
> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
> default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
> default.
> 

Imagine! All in one pathname!

(Nice try, tho.)

:)

kt

-- 

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Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
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From: Kenny
Subject: Re: Lisp also has a stutter?
Date: 
Message-ID: <48a3046d$0$7354$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Kenny wrote:
> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>>>> Kenny <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>>>
>>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>>>> was special.
>>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language.  It's natural it
>>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>>>> parameter.
>>>>
>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>
>> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
>> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
>> default type, a default version, etc.  That's a lot of defaults for a
>> default.
>>
> 
> Imagine! All in one pathname!
> 

But it is there to /provide/ defaults and not to serve as a standalone 
pathname. Hmmmm....got it:

  *pathname-defaults-pathname*

Whew, I feel better.

kt


-- 

$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
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