Merlin (named after the famous British engine of my favourite British
plane - the Spitfire) is the new compiler for Qi II. It has 4 speed
settings - 0 to 3. FYI here is the Lisp object code for factorial at
different settings.
(define factorial
{number --> number}
0 -> 1
X -> (* X (factorial (- X 1))))
speed 0 - no optimisations
(DEFUN factorial (V891)
(COND ((EQL 0 V891) 1) (T (* V891 (factorial (- V891 1))))))NIL :
(list A)
speed 1 - limited optimisations - optimise certain calls, reduce car/
cdring.
This is the efault setting
(DEFUN factorial (V896)
(COND ((EQL 0 V896) 1) (T (* V896 (factorial (1- V896))))))NIL :
(list A)
speed 2 - optimise using type information
(DEFUN factorial (V901)
(COND ((ZEROP (THE NUMBER V901)) 1)
(T
(THE NUMBER
(* (THE NUMBER V901)
(THE NUMBER (factorial (THE NUMBER (1- (THE NUMBER V901))))))))))
speed 3 doesn't produce any change for this example, but it will
effectively do for code what turbo-E did in addition to the preceding
optimisations.
Note speed > 1 assumes type integrity in your code and uses Qi type
information to speed up your program, inserting type declarations and
also exchanging Qi generic equality tests for much faster type
specific ones.
The whole system should be out by the end of the summer.
Mark
On Aug 10, 4:06 pm, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> Merlin (named after the famous British engine of my favourite British
> plane - the Spitfire)
Why does everybody seem to forgeth the backbone of RAF, Hawker
Hurricane. That was also powered by Rolls Royce Merlin.
>is the new compiler for Qi II. It has 4 speed
> settings - 0 to 3. FYI here is the Lisp object code for factorial at
> different settings.
>
> (define factorial
> {number --> number}
> 0 -> 1
> X -> (* X (factorial (- X 1))))
>
> speed 0 - no optimisations
>
> (DEFUN factorial (V891)
> (COND ((EQL 0 V891) 1) (T (* V891 (factorial (- V891 1))))))NIL :
> (list A)
>
> speed 1 - limited optimisations - optimise certain calls, reduce car/
> cdring.
> This is the efault setting
>
> (DEFUN factorial (V896)
> (COND ((EQL 0 V896) 1) (T (* V896 (factorial (1- V896))))))NIL :
> (list A)
>
> speed 2 - optimise using type information
>
> (DEFUN factorial (V901)
> (COND ((ZEROP (THE NUMBER V901)) 1)
> (T
> (THE NUMBER
> (* (THE NUMBER V901)
> (THE NUMBER (factorial (THE NUMBER (1- (THE NUMBER V901))))))))))
>
> speed 3 doesn't produce any change for this example, but it will
> effectively do for code what turbo-E did in addition to the preceding
> optimisations.
>
> Note speed > 1 assumes type integrity in your code and uses Qi type
> information to speed up your program, inserting type declarations and
> also exchanging Qi generic equality tests for much faster type
> specific ones.
>
> The whole system should be out by the end of the summer.
>
> Mark
What do you need to be able to integrate Qi type system in a
language? I'm working on my language and still haven't decided about
type system. I would like to have a static checks, (if they are
optional) but the best from what I found is
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/boyer/ftp/diss/akers.pdf that comes
with a huge price of flexibility that I'm not willing to pay. I looked
at your 10 cent typechecker but the functions defined there are
simple, edis' are heavily overloaded. For example even simple + could
be called, in array style:
(+ 2 '( 1 2 3))
(3 4 5)
(+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3))
(2 4 6)
(+ '(1 2) '((0 1) (2 3) (4 5)))
((1 5) (2 6) (3 7))
Or they could be completely redefined or even removed at
runtime.Nothing prevents user to do things like below at runtime:
(def triple (x) (* 3 x))
triple
(remove triple '(x))
t
Also there is even more transformation characters that are making the
problem.
(def add (x y z) (fold + x y z))
add
(+ 2 3 _) ; creates projection
(lambda (x) (add 2 3 x))
Is static typechecking possible in so volatile enviroment?
bobi
On 11 Aug, 09:56, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What do you need to be able to integrate Qi type system in a
> language? I'm working on my language and still haven't decided about
> type system. I would like to have a static checks, (if they are
> optional) but the best from what I found ishttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/boyer/ftp/diss/akers.pdfthat comes
> with a huge price of flexibility that I'm not willing to pay. I looked
> at your 10 cent typechecker but the functions defined there are
> simple, edis' are heavily overloaded. For example even simple + could
> be called, in array style:
> (+ 2 '( 1 2 3))
> (3 4 5)
>
> (+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3))
> (2 4 6)
>
> (+ '(1 2) '((0 1) (2 3) (4 5)))
> ((1 5) (2 6) (3 7))
>
> Or they could be completely redefined or even removed at
> runtime.Nothing prevents user to do things like below at runtime:
> (def triple (x) (* 3 x))
> triple
> (remove triple '(x))
> t
>
> Also there is even more transformation characters that are making the
> problem.
> (def add (x y z) (fold + x y z))
> add
> (+ 2 3 _) ; creates projection
> (lambda (x) (add 2 3 x))
>
> Is static typechecking possible in so volatile enviroment?
>
> bobi
Yes; what you have got is severe overloading; but its not a problem.
There is nothing to stop you using several rules to express the type
properties of one function. Qi will use the one that fits the
individual case using backtracking if needed.
The argument against overloading is that, if you have many overloaded
functions, type checking becomes slower because there is a roughly
linear depreciation in performance wrt the number of rules you use.
But Qi has handled complex type systems and it does work successfully
because the underlying technology is so fast in human terms that it
takes quite a few rules before you really notice the lag.
If you avoid overloading, then you can follow the Qi design of placing
type information about functions on a hash table as closures. This
effectively means that there is no depreciation wrt the number of
system functions that the language contains.
Mark
.
On Aug 11, 11:19 am, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Aug, 09:56, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > What do you need to be able to integrate Qi type system in a
> > language? I'm working on my language and still haven't decided about
> > type system. I would like to have a static checks, (if they are
> > optional) but the best from what I found ishttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/boyer/ftp/diss/akers.pdfthatcomes
> > with a huge price of flexibility that I'm not willing to pay. I looked
> > at your 10 cent typechecker but the functions defined there are
> > simple, edis' are heavily overloaded. For example even simple + could
> > be called, in array style:
> > (+ 2 '( 1 2 3))
> > (3 4 5)
>
> > (+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3))
> > (2 4 6)
>
> > (+ '(1 2) '((0 1) (2 3) (4 5)))
> > ((1 5) (2 6) (3 7))
>
> > Or they could be completely redefined or even removed at
> > runtime.Nothing prevents user to do things like below at runtime:
> > (def triple (x) (* 3 x))
> > triple
> > (remove triple '(x))
> > t
>
> > Also there is even more transformation characters that are making the
> > problem.
> > (def add (x y z) (fold + x y z))
> > add
> > (+ 2 3 _) ; creates projection
> > (lambda (x) (add 2 3 x))
>
> > Is static typechecking possible in so volatile enviroment?
>
> > bobi
>
> Yes; what you have got is severe overloading; but its not a problem.
> There is nothing to stop you using several rules to express the type
> properties of one function. Qi will use the one that fits the
> individual case using backtracking if needed.
>
> The argument against overloading is that, if you have many overloaded
> functions, type checking becomes slower because there is a roughly
> linear depreciation in performance wrt the number of rules you use.
> But Qi has handled complex type systems and it does work successfully
> because the underlying technology is so fast in human terms that it
> takes quite a few rules before you really notice the lag.
>
> If you avoid overloading, then you can follow the Qi design of placing
> type information about functions on a hash table as closures. This
> effectively means that there is no depreciation wrt the number of
> system functions that the language contains.
>
> Mark
>
Could you please enlighten me a little bit more. As per my very
limited exposure to Haskell and MLs type inference works because
functions are defined at compile time and runtime is only using them.
Am I right? Edi carries the whole implementation with it all the time
and uses it to create all the objects at the runtime. Building and
removing functions at runtime via macros (called at runtime), other
functions, transformers, projections,weaving them is a normal way of
doing business.
Maybe a little comparation with a baker that plans to sell some of his
staff at the local fare.
Statically typed baker will decide what products to carry and premade
them. That's why his staff will be faster.
Edi type baker will make some products but also it will bring it's
bakery with it, and cook the meals on the spot, it takes longer but
the food is always hot.
Is it what you saying that I could statically check only the
prefabricated functions
bobi
On 11 Aug, 10:57, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 11, 11:19 am, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11 Aug, 09:56, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > What do you need to be able to integrate Qi type system in a
> > > language? I'm working on my language and still haven't decided about
> > > type system. I would like to have a static checks, (if they are
> > > optional) but the best from what I found ishttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/boyer/ftp/diss/akers.pdfthatcomes
> > > with a huge price of flexibility that I'm not willing to pay. I looked
> > > at your 10 cent typechecker but the functions defined there are
> > > simple, edis' are heavily overloaded. For example even simple + could
> > > be called, in array style:
> > > (+ 2 '( 1 2 3))
> > > (3 4 5)
>
> > > (+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3))
> > > (2 4 6)
>
> > > (+ '(1 2) '((0 1) (2 3) (4 5)))
> > > ((1 5) (2 6) (3 7))
>
> > > Or they could be completely redefined or even removed at
> > > runtime.Nothing prevents user to do things like below at runtime:
> > > (def triple (x) (* 3 x))
> > > triple
> > > (remove triple '(x))
> > > t
>
> > > Also there is even more transformation characters that are making the
> > > problem.
> > > (def add (x y z) (fold + x y z))
> > > add
> > > (+ 2 3 _) ; creates projection
> > > (lambda (x) (add 2 3 x))
>
> > > Is static typechecking possible in so volatile enviroment?
>
> > > bobi
>
> > Yes; what you have got is severe overloading; but its not a problem.
> > There is nothing to stop you using several rules to express the type
> > properties of one function. Qi will use the one that fits the
> > individual case using backtracking if needed.
>
> > The argument against overloading is that, if you have many overloaded
> > functions, type checking becomes slower because there is a roughly
> > linear depreciation in performance wrt the number of rules you use.
> > But Qi has handled complex type systems and it does work successfully
> > because the underlying technology is so fast in human terms that it
> > takes quite a few rules before you really notice the lag.
>
> > If you avoid overloading, then you can follow the Qi design of placing
> > type information about functions on a hash table as closures. This
> > effectively means that there is no depreciation wrt the number of
> > system functions that the language contains.
>
> > Mark
>
> Could you please enlighten me a little bit more. As per my very
> limited exposure to Haskell and MLs type inference works because
> functions are defined at compile time and runtime is only using them.
> Am I right? Edi carries the whole implementation with it all the time
> and uses it to create all the objects at the runtime. Building and
> removing functions at runtime via macros (called at runtime), other
> functions, transformers, projections,weaving them is a normal way of
> doing business.
> Maybe a little comparation with a baker that plans to sell some of his
> staff at the local fare.
> Statically typed baker will decide what products to carry and premade
> them. That's why his staff will be faster.
> Edi type baker will make some products but also it will bring it's
> bakery with it, and cook the meals on the spot, it takes longer but
> the food is always hot.
> Is it what you saying that I could statically check only the
> prefabricated functions
> bobi- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
> edis' are heavily overloaded
Is edis your language?
OK; lets take the first two examples
(+ 2 '( 1 2 3))
(3 4 5)
(+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3))
(2 4 6)
I take it that (+ 2 2) still works! Hence there are three signatures
that you can put in for +.
(datatype plus
___________________________________
+ : (number --> number --> number);
______________________________________
+ : (number --> [number] --> [number]);
_______________________________________
+ : ([number] --> [number] --> [number]);)
However from your examples it looks like your + is not ad hoc
overloaded but actually works over a recursive type composed of
numbers or lists of numbers or lists of lists of numbers etc. So what
you need to do in order to capture the properties of this function is
to define that recursive type.
> Or they could be completely redefined or even removed at
> runtime.
Well type checking functions that are overwritten during runtime does
pose problems for type integrity! However it is still possible to
maintain type integrity with this feature provided that the new
function maintains the same type as the old one. In this case you
will want to invoke the type checker dynamically at run time.
Mark
On Aug 11, 12:48 pm, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Aug, 10:57, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 11, 11:19 am, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On 11 Aug, 09:56, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > What do you need to be able to integrate Qi type system in a
> > > > language? I'm working on my language and still haven't decided about
> > > > type system. I would like to have a static checks, (if they are
> > > > optional) but the best from what I found ishttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/boyer/ftp/diss/akers.pdfthatcomes
> > > > with a huge price of flexibility that I'm not willing to pay. I looked
> > > > at your 10 cent typechecker but the functions defined there are
> > > > simple, edis' are heavily overloaded. For example even simple + could
> > > > be called, in array style:
> > > > (+ 2 '( 1 2 3))
> > > > (3 4 5)
>
> > > > (+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3))
> > > > (2 4 6)
>
> > > > (+ '(1 2) '((0 1) (2 3) (4 5)))
> > > > ((1 5) (2 6) (3 7))
>
> > > > Or they could be completely redefined or even removed at
> > > > runtime.Nothing prevents user to do things like below at runtime:
> > > > (def triple (x) (* 3 x))
> > > > triple
> > > > (remove triple '(x))
> > > > t
>
> > > > Also there is even more transformation characters that are making the
> > > > problem.
> > > > (def add (x y z) (fold + x y z))
> > > > add
> > > > (+ 2 3 _) ; creates projection
> > > > (lambda (x) (add 2 3 x))
>
> > > > Is static typechecking possible in so volatile enviroment?
>
> > > > bobi
>
> > > Yes; what you have got is severe overloading; but its not a problem.
> > > There is nothing to stop you using several rules to express the type
> > > properties of one function. Qi will use the one that fits the
> > > individual case using backtracking if needed.
>
> > > The argument against overloading is that, if you have many overloaded
> > > functions, type checking becomes slower because there is a roughly
> > > linear depreciation in performance wrt the number of rules you use.
> > > But Qi has handled complex type systems and it does work successfully
> > > because the underlying technology is so fast in human terms that it
> > > takes quite a few rules before you really notice the lag.
>
> > > If you avoid overloading, then you can follow the Qi design of placing
> > > type information about functions on a hash table as closures. This
> > > effectively means that there is no depreciation wrt the number of
> > > system functions that the language contains.
>
> > > Mark
>
> > Could you please enlighten me a little bit more. As per my very
> > limited exposure to Haskell and MLs type inference works because
> > functions are defined at compile time and runtime is only using them.
> > Am I right? Edi carries the whole implementation with it all the time
> > and uses it to create all the objects at the runtime. Building and
> > removing functions at runtime via macros (called at runtime), other
> > functions, transformers, projections,weaving them is a normal way of
> > doing business.
> > Maybe a little comparation with a baker that plans to sell some of his
> > staff at the local fare.
> > Statically typed baker will decide what products to carry and premade
> > them. That's why his staff will be faster.
> > Edi type baker will make some products but also it will bring it's
> > bakery with it, and cook the meals on the spot, it takes longer but
> > the food is always hot.
> > Is it what you saying that I could statically check only the
> > prefabricated functions
> > bobi- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
> > edis' are heavily overloaded
>
> Is edis your language?
Yeah edi. It's named after Edi Weitz. I wanted to name it by some
lisper using some objective criterium so I picked the name of the
author with most lisp libraries in my folder. The second place was
gary as I have a lot of Gary King libs. Afterward the numbers were
close: slava, marco,... The names that were already taken as pascal
were not considered.
>
> OK; lets take the first two examples
>
> (+ 2 '( 1 2 3))
> (3 4 5)
>
> (+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3))
> (2 4 6)
>
> I take it that (+ 2 2) still works! Hence there are three signatures
> that you can put in for +.
>
> (datatype plus
>
> ___________________________________
> + : (number --> number --> number);
>
> ______________________________________
> + : (number --> [number] --> [number]);
>
> _______________________________________
> + : ([number] --> [number] --> [number]);)
>
> However from your examples it looks like your + is not ad hoc
> overloaded but actually works over a recursive type composed of
> numbers or lists of numbers or lists of lists of numbers etc. So what
> you need to do in order to capture the properties of this function is
> to define that recursive type.
>
> > Or they could be completely redefined or even removed at
> > runtime.
>
> Well type checking functions that are overwritten during runtime does
> pose problems for type integrity! However it is still possible to
> maintain type integrity with this feature provided that the new
> function maintains the same type as the old one. In this case you
> will want to invoke the type checker dynamically at run time.
Dynamical type checker. I like that.
>
> Mark- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On 11 Aug, 09:12, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Aug 10, 4:06 pm, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:> Merlin (named after the famous British engine of my favourite British
> > plane - the Spitfire)
>
> Why does everybody seem to forgeth the backbone of RAF, Hawker
> Hurricane. That was also powered by Rolls Royce Merlin.
>
>
>
> >is the new compiler for Qi II. It has 4 speed
> > settings - 0 to 3. FYI here is the Lisp object code for factorial at
> > different settings.
>
> > (define factorial
> > {number --> number}
> > 0 -> 1
> > X -> (* X (factorial (- X 1))))
>
> > speed 0 - no optimisations
>
> > (DEFUN factorial (V891)
> > (COND ((EQL 0 V891) 1) (T (* V891 (factorial (- V891 1))))))NIL :
> > (list A)
>
> > speed 1 - limited optimisations - optimise certain calls, reduce car/
> > cdring.
> > This is the efault setting
>
> > (DEFUN factorial (V896)
> > (COND ((EQL 0 V896) 1) (T (* V896 (factorial (1- V896))))))NIL :
> > (list A)
>
> > speed 2 - optimise using type information
>
> > (DEFUN factorial (V901)
> > (COND ((ZEROP (THE NUMBER V901)) 1)
> > (T
> > (THE NUMBER
> > (* (THE NUMBER V901)
> > (THE NUMBER (factorial (THE NUMBER (1- (THE NUMBER V901))))))))))
>
> > speed 3 doesn't produce any change for this example, but it will
> > effectively do for code what turbo-E did in addition to the preceding
> > optimisations.
>
> > Note speed > 1 assumes type integrity in your code and uses Qi type
> > information to speed up your program, inserting type declarations and
> > also exchanging Qi generic equality tests for much faster type
> > specific ones.
>
> > The whole system should be out by the end of the summer.
>
> > Mark- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Indeed, but you know it never had the beautiful lines of the Spitfire
- the elliptical wings and the dihedral slant that made it so pretty.
It as essentially an older design in concept. As you say it did
however have the same Merlin engine that its sister aircraft had.
On Aug 11, 10:56 am, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 Aug, 09:12, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
> > Why does everybody seem to forgeth the backbone of RAF, Hawker
> > Hurricane. That was also powered by Rolls Royce Merlin.
>
> Indeed, but you know it never had the beautiful lines of the Spitfire
> - the elliptical wings and the dihedral slant that made it so pretty.
> It as essentially an older design in concept. As you say it did
> however have the same Merlin engine that its sister aircraft had.- Hide quoted text -
Sorry I was little bit nostalgic, Hurricane was my favourite childhood
toy and only memory from my grand-grandfather. He emigrated in England
in start of WW2 and never came back.
Slobodan Blazeski wrote:
> On Aug 10, 4:06 pm, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>> Merlin (named after the famous British engine of my favourite British
>> plane - the Spitfire)
> Why does everybody seem to forgeth the backbone of RAF, Hawker
> Hurricane. That was also powered by Rolls Royce Merlin.
Two lines into an important FP announcement and all Slobby wants to talk
about is WW II aircraft engines?
This is sad. So sad. Lisp is alive and well in Ruby, Python, and Groovy.
Lispers? A moment of silence...
kt
>> is the new compiler for Qi II. It has 4 speed
>> settings - 0 to 3. FYI here is the Lisp object code for factorial at
>> different settings.
>>
>> (define factorial
>> {number --> number}
>> 0 -> 1
>> X -> (* X (factorial (- X 1))))
>>
>> speed 0 - no optimisations
>>
>> (DEFUN factorial (V891)
>> (COND ((EQL 0 V891) 1) (T (* V891 (factorial (- V891 1))))))NIL :
>> (list A)
>>
>> speed 1 - limited optimisations - optimise certain calls, reduce car/
>> cdring.
>> This is the efault setting
>>
>> (DEFUN factorial (V896)
>> (COND ((EQL 0 V896) 1) (T (* V896 (factorial (1- V896))))))NIL :
>> (list A)
>>
>> speed 2 - optimise using type information
>>
>> (DEFUN factorial (V901)
>> (COND ((ZEROP (THE NUMBER V901)) 1)
>> (T
>> (THE NUMBER
>> (* (THE NUMBER V901)
>> (THE NUMBER (factorial (THE NUMBER (1- (THE NUMBER V901))))))))))
>>
>> speed 3 doesn't produce any change for this example, but it will
>> effectively do for code what turbo-E did in addition to the preceding
>> optimisations.
>>
>> Note speed > 1 assumes type integrity in your code and uses Qi type
>> information to speed up your program, inserting type declarations and
>> also exchanging Qi generic equality tests for much faster type
>> specific ones.
>>
>> The whole system should be out by the end of the summer.
>>
>> Mark
>
--
$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
On Aug 11, 1:49 am, Kenny <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Slobodan Blazeski wrote:
> > On Aug 10, 4:06 pm, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Merlin (named after the famous British engine of my favourite British
> >> plane - the Spitfire)
> > Why does everybody seem to forgeth the backbone of RAF, Hawker
> > Hurricane. That was also powered by Rolls Royce Merlin.
>
> Two lines into an important FP announcement and all Slobby wants to talk
> about is WW II aircraft engines?
>
> This is sad. So sad. Lisp is alive and well in Ruby, Python, and Groovy.
> Lispers? A moment of silence...
For 3D models of Spitfire, as well the P-38 Lightening, the scary
Zeros and Stuka, see:
http://xahlee.org/sl/planes.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/
☄
On Aug 10, 7:06 am, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> Merlin (named after the famous British engine of my favourite British
> plane - the Spitfire) is the new compiler for Qi II. It has 4 speed
> settings - 0 to 3. FYI here is the Lisp object code for factorial at
> different settings.
>
> (define factorial
> {number --> number}
> 0 -> 1
> X -> (* X (factorial (- X 1))))
>
> speed 0 - no optimisations
Is there any change Qi will come to elisp?
you gave me explanation about a list processin problem i posted to the
Qi forum... but i couldnt understand none of it. I was hoping some
would give a explanation or tutorial approach. (can i post your
message here or in comp.lang.func? Of course if serious i should read
the manual... but i don't think i'll even learn CL anytime soon. Am
now just curious, then mayble later i'll pickup.)
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/
☄