Is there anyone out there with a Symbolics keyboard (preferably the
one with the LEDs in Caps Lock/Mode Lock a.k.a. the Rev. C), connected
to real Symbolics hardware, and an oscilloscope who can tell me how
real Symbolics computers talk to the keyboard?
Based on schematics on the web (http://lmkbd.googlecode.com/files/
Symbolics3600Keyboard.png) of earlier models, and the claim that these
models are plug-compatible, I gather the protocol looks something like
1) computer provides ground on the grey wire (pin 1 on the P1 header,
pin 6 on the modular plug), +5V on the green wire (pin 3 on P1, pin 4
on mod plug).
2) computer brings the white wire (pin 6 on P1, pin 1 on mod plug) low
for a short time to reset the scan count
(Q: how long should this be?)
3) computer clocks the black wire (pin 5 on P1, pin 2 on mod plug) a
number of times (probably 128)
(Q: the real question I have is how fast this clock goes for real
Symbolics hardware)
4) for each clock, computer looks at the red wire (pin 3 on P1, pin 4
on mod plug) for "low = keydown" for the corresponding scan code
Unfortunately, the Rev C keyboard includes a 8749H microcontroller
which is more choosy than the earlier revisions' discrete logic as to
what clock rates it will accept in step 3. Or at least, I am having
trouble getting a PIC to communicate with the keyboard I have:
changing the clock rate causes weird things to happen with the LEDs,
but nothing I've tried so far gives me what looks like good data on
the red wire.
The huge reward I offer to the first accurate report is a free copy
(probably beta-quality) of the Symbolics-to-ADB converter clone I am
working on, a vote on whether I should work on the Symbolics-to-USB or
-to-PS/2 next, with the option to wait for a free copy of one of those
instead of the ADB version. In addition, of course, to my effusive
thanks.
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:55:39 -0000, ················@gmail.com" <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there anyone out there with a Symbolics keyboard (preferably the
> one with the LEDs in Caps Lock/Mode Lock a.k.a. the Rev. C),
> connected to real Symbolics hardware, and an oscilloscope who can
> tell me how real Symbolics computers talk to the keyboard?
>
> [...]
>
> The huge reward I offer to the first accurate report is a free copy
> (probably beta-quality) of the Symbolics-to-ADB converter clone I am
> working on, a vote on whether I should work on the Symbolics-to-USB
> or -to-PS/2 next, with the option to wait for a free copy of one of
> those instead of the ADB version. In addition, of course, to my
> effusive thanks.
You're aware of this, aren't you?
http://lispmeister.com/blog/hardware/symbolics-kbd.html
The original URL seems to be dead, but you can probably try to ask
Manuel directly, or Hans H�bner maybe.
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
On Sep 17, 5:33 pm, Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:55:39 -0000, ················@gmail.com" <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is there anyone out there with a Symbolics keyboard (preferably the
> > one with the LEDs in Caps Lock/Mode Lock a.k.a. the Rev. C),
> > connected to real Symbolics hardware, and an oscilloscope who can
> > tell me how real Symbolics computers talk to the keyboard?
>
>
> You're aware of this, aren't you?
>
> http://lispmeister.com/blog/hardware/symbolics-kbd.html
>
> The original URL seems to be dead, but you can probably try to ask
> Manuel directly, or Hans H�bner maybe.
>
> Edi.
Edi--
I am aware of that, and both Hans and Manuel helpfully replied to my
e-mail enquiries. It seems they were working with one of the non-LED
versions, clocking the discrete logic at a rate far faster than the
Rev C microcontroller can execute instructions (733 kHz).
I could take advantage of that if someone out there would swap my
Rev C for a Rev B, but I would prefer to get my Rev C to work.
--Joe
> Edi--
>
> I am aware of that, and both Hans and Manuel helpfully replied to my
> e-mail enquiries. It seems they were working with one of the non-LED
> versions, clocking the discrete logic at a rate far faster than the
> Rev C microcontroller can execute instructions (733 kHz).
Just as an aside, are they planning to post their files again
somewhere? That might make an interesting addition to the MIT CADR
page with the lisp machine schematics :-)
On Sep 18, 9:59 am, C Y <···········@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Edi--
>
> > I am aware of that, and both Hans and Manuel helpfully replied to my
> > e-mail enquiries. It seems they were working with one of the non-LED
> > versions, clocking the discrete logic at a rate far faster than the
> > Rev C microcontroller can execute instructions (733 kHz).
>
> Just as an aside, are they planning to post their files again
> somewhere? That might make an interesting addition to the MIT CADR
> page with the lisp machine schematics :-)
The responses I got from Manuel included the phrases "I'm afraid that
was a very long time ago" and "I don't even remember
where my symbolics keyboard is at", so I'm not eagerly awaiting their
files reappearing.
The schematic required is quite simple: three digital lines---two
output to the keyboard, one input, plus whatever is needed on the
computer side (ADB, USB, or PS/2), which tend to be a couple of
digital lines or an integrated USB transceiver.