gavino wrote:
> forth and lisp are both non mainstream.....do many lispers try forth
> and vice versa?
Well, I don't know if I properly fall into the "lisper" category but I
do find Forth to be interesting from the standpoint of the
bootstrapping problem, and I do hope at some point to explore what
implementing Lisp using Forth as a starting language would be like
(i.e. the "minimum path from nothing to Lisp").
gavino <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> forth and lisp are both non mainstream.....do many lispers try forth
> and vice versa?
I can't speak for others. For myself, I've never personally made the
time to learn Forth. But I did learn Postscript (which I understand
to be related) and had a lot of fun with it in a kind of intellectual
way. It's always worth knowing a variety of programming paradigms,
and there's a very interesting elegance to Postscript's design, and
it's arguably well-suited to the specific domain of typography. I
wasn't convinced that I wanted to rush out and use it for day-to-day
programming, but I can understand the appeal to those who do like it.
Kent M Pitman wrote:
> I can't speak for others. For myself, I've never personally made the
> time to learn Forth. But I did learn Postscript (which I understand
> to be related) and had a lot of fun with it in a kind of intellectual
> way.
You should try a "real" Forth, an ANS Forth system. The ability to parse
the code input stream is very similar to Lisp macros and the interactive
development style on something like a REPL in most Forth systems feels a
bit like in Lisp. But sometimes it is difficult to program without a GC.
http://factorcode.org/ may be interesting, too.
--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
+ gavino <·········@gmail.com>:
> forth and lisp are both non mainstream.....do many lispers try forth
> and vice versa?
Some lisp users may retreat, but must go forth.
But seriously, the two languages are so far apart in what they are
designed to do that it seems a safe bet that anyone moving from one to
the other does so because he now has a very different kind of problem
to solve. Heck, I have written a fair amount of PostScript in my
life, but never has it occured to me to compare that language with
Lisp. It should be the same way with forth, I think. I'll now stick
my neck out and display my ignorance for all to see: As far as I know,
forth is a fine language for controlling radio telescopes and writing
boot loaders. Except I am not sure it is still used much for the
former purpose.
--
* Harald Hanche-Olsen <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/>
- It is undesirable to believe a proposition
when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true.
-- Bertrand Russell
gavino <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> forth and lisp are both non mainstream.....do many lispers try forth
> and vice versa?
Both see each other from a very slick angle. As this is obvious the
question what is meant by "both" may be elevated to be the tension
moment in our story. Forth will never go lisp but Lisp will go forth.
Frank
--
Frank Goenninger
frgo(at)mac(dot)com
"Don't ask me! I haven't been reading comp.lang.lisp long enough to
really know ..."
"Rob St. Amant" <·······@ncsu.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag ················@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
> how do lispers see forth?
>
> Well, we generally just open our eyes, and there's the world, right in
> front of us.
>
> :-)
I like this statement.
About a year ago I wrote a Forth/Postscript like interpreter in Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) within MS Word. This took about
200 lines of VBA code - it was utterly easy. With this animal I can create complex reports without using MS COM (by executing
dynamic Forth like code within Word). Works fine in a production environment. Indeed I almost forgot about it (no service request
ever).
Andreas
P.S. The Forth/postscript like code is generated by a lisp application of course :)
On Oct 31, 11:23 pm, "Andreas Thiele" <······@nospam.com> wrote:
> "Rob St. Amant" <·······@ncsu.edu> schrieb im ···························@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
> About a year ago I wrote a Forth/Postscript like
> interpreter in Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) within
> MS Word. This took about 200 lines of VBA code - it was
> utterly easy. With this animal I can create complex
> reports without using MS COM (by executing dynamic Forth
> like code within Word). Works fine in a production
> environment. Indeed I almost forgot about it (no service
> request ever).
>
> Andreas
>
> P.S. The Forth/postscript like code is generated by a lisp
> application of course :)
Very interesting. What are the most primitive words in this
Forth of yours, and why do you need to generate code with
Lisp? Isn't Forth expressive enough?
What's the development process like? Could you please
elaborate?
On 29 out, 16:34, gavino <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> forth and lisp are both non mainstream.....do many lispers try forth
> and vice versa?
Forth is Lisp reversed.
namekuseijin <············@gmail.com> writes:
> On 29 out, 16:34, gavino <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>> forth and lisp are both non mainstream.....do many lispers try forth
>> and vice versa?
>
> Forth is Lisp reversed.
No. Lisp reversed is Psil. Psil is the short form of /Psilocybe/
/Cubensis/- a psychedelic mushroom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_cubensis
Thanks for helping reveal the true origin of Lisp! ;-)
Frank
--
Frank Goenninger
frgo(at)mac(dot)com
"Don't ask me! I haven't been reading comp.lang.lisp long enough to
really know ..."
On Oct 29, 2:34 pm, gavino <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> forth and lisp are both non mainstream.....do many lispers try forth
> and vice versa?
I don't see much interesection between the two systems, myself. I used
to
code Forth a lot on an old 8-bit micro back in the late '80s and early
'90s,
which was fun.
A few years back when I first started learning Lisp, I implemented a
Forth-like
language in Lisp that I called Stackato. The heart of it is a Lisp
macro which
is essentially a Stackato to Lisp translator. I got a little crazy
with it
and implemented multiple stack contexts. Stackato words can be bound
to Lisp
functions, or written in Stackato. It was fun.
The most I ever did with it was to code a towers of hanoi solution in
Stackato.
I probably have the code tucked away somewhere in a home directory
backup.