This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
have a Mac).
(blog post)
http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
(direct link)
ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
- Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
correpsonding Emacs commands
- zero configuration, double click and start Lisping
- no restrictions of any kind (like you have with free versions of
commercial Lisp)
- SBCL comes with asdf-install installed and configured, so easy to
get libraries
- cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
environment
- good environment both for beginners and lifelong Lispers; can learn
about the astounding power of Emacs, SLIME, etc. as needed
My only recommendation: bundle the entire Starter Pack library by
default, in addition to cl-ppcre.
This addresses almost my entire list of complaints about getting new
developers started with Common Lisp.
Much thanks to John Wiegley! Will immediately point anyone with a Mac
interested in learning Lisp to Ready Lisp!
-jimbo
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 05:58:41 -0800, ········@gmail.com tried to confuse everyone
with this message:
>This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
>have a Mac).
>
>(blog post)
>http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
>
>(direct link)
>ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
>
>It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
>when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
>are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
>
>Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
>
> - Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
>because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
>correpsonding Emacs commands
But then why it turns paredit on by default, which makes Emacs behave
unlike any other existing editor? It is not particularly newbie friendly,
you'll need to use shortcuts for simple tasks like wrapping a let form
around existing code. I always thought of it as an efficiency hack for
experienced Lispers, not a thing to throw at newbies to spare them some
parenthesis typing.
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
In article <·················@news.readfreenews.net>,
····@mail.ru (Timofei Shatrov) wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 05:58:41 -0800, ········@gmail.com tried to confuse everyone
> with this message:
>
> >This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
> >have a Mac).
> >
> >(blog post)
> >http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
> >
> >(direct link)
> >ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
> >
> >It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
> >when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
> >are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
> >
> >Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
> >
> > - Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
> >because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
> >correpsonding Emacs commands
>
> But then why it turns paredit on by default, which makes Emacs behave
> unlike any other existing editor? It is not particularly newbie friendly,
> you'll need to use shortcuts for simple tasks like wrapping a let form
> around existing code. I always thought of it as an efficiency hack for
> experienced Lispers, not a thing to throw at newbies to spare them some
> parenthesis typing.
I'm using it, too. You can select text and type (, then the
whole text will be enclosed in parentheses.
I don't use much of the advanced features and some stuff
gets in the way. For some reason I'm not used to type
'return' in the middle of a form in a listener and have a line-break
inserted. Also deleting text is getting more complicated.
In article <························@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
········@gmail.com wrote:
> This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
> have a Mac).
>
> (blog post)
> http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
>
> (direct link)
> ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
>
> It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
> when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
> are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
>
> Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
>
> - Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
> because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
> correpsonding Emacs commands
> - zero configuration, double click and start Lisping
> - no restrictions of any kind (like you have with free versions of
> commercial Lisp)
> - SBCL comes with asdf-install installed and configured, so easy to
> get libraries
> - cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
> environment
> - good environment both for beginners and lifelong Lispers; can learn
> about the astounding power of Emacs, SLIME, etc. as needed
>
> My only recommendation: bundle the entire Starter Pack library by
> default, in addition to cl-ppcre.
>
> This addresses almost my entire list of complaints about getting new
> developers started with Common Lisp.
>
> Much thanks to John Wiegley! Will immediately point anyone with a Mac
> interested in learning Lisp to Ready Lisp!
>
> -jimbo
A much better one for learning Lisp will be Clozure CL.
This is the renamed OpenMCL.
No need for Emacs & Slime. It has an integrated editor. Better
looking interface. Easier to use. Simple GUI toolkit.
Objective-C / Cocoa bridge.
It will take a few month to mature, though.
Development has already started. There is a first version for 64bit
x86 Macs. You get download an application or build it
yourself. Beginners may wait some more time until
it gets more mature, but other hackers can try it
now.
http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2007-10-31-1
On Nov 7, 11:06 am, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> A much better one for learning Lisp will be Clozure CL.
> This is the renamed OpenMCL.
>
> No need for Emacs & Slime. It has an integrated editor. Better
> looking interface. Easier to use. Simple GUI toolkit.
> Objective-C / Cocoa bridge.
Sounds great! Will keep an eye on this, too. Options are good.
-jimbo
On Wed, Nov 07 2007, Rainer Joswig wrote:
> A much better one for learning Lisp will be Clozure CL.
> This is the renamed OpenMCL.
How did they decided to rename it? Is that related with the MCL source
code release? Is OpenMCL integrating MCL source code?
I just saw some MCL features in the news article and wondered how is
that project going.
Thanks in advance!
--
Kamen
In article <·············@cybuild.com>, Kamen TOMOV <·····@cybuild.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 07 2007, Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> > A much better one for learning Lisp will be Clozure CL.
> > This is the renamed OpenMCL.
>
> How did they decided to rename it? Is that related with the MCL source
> code release? Is OpenMCL integrating MCL source code?
>
> I just saw some MCL features in the news article and wondered how is
> that project going.
>
> Thanks in advance!
There is no relationship to the open source MCL.
OpenMCL is a fork from MCL years ago. Clozure CL
will be OpenMCL plus there will be more done for the
development environment. There is currently
no plan, AFAIK, to integrate MCL's development
environment. MCL's code is based on the Carbon
libraries. Carbon is not 64bit and probably will
not be. Cocoa is Apple's favorite way to
develop user interfaces and Cocoa gets
all the new stuff (garbage collection, 64bit, ...).
There is some interest in some compatibility
to MCL's GUI classes, though.
Quite a few people are interested in a working
MCL on Intel Macs - even if it is only emulated.
Interestingly just recently MCL got some code,
so you can use it instead of Emacs/SLIME
as an IDE for other Lisps. It uses the SLIME
backend.
More modern stuff (with respect to Apple's libraries)
can be done with Clozure CL. But that should get
a different (hopefully even better) development
environment. I think Clozure CL has the best chance
to get a modern mac-like development environment.
Especially since there are some excellent people
working for Clozure.
I've put a screenshot on the page:
http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2007-10-31-1
On Nov 7, 2:58 pm, ········@gmail.com wrote:
> This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
> have a Mac).
>
> (blog post)http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
>
> (direct link)ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
>
> It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
> when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
> are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
>
> Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
>
> - Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
> because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
> correpsonding Emacs commands
> - zero configuration, double click and start Lisping
> - no restrictions of any kind (like you have with free versions of
> commercial Lisp)
> - SBCL comes with asdf-install installed and configured, so easy to
> get libraries
> - cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
> environment
> - good environment both for beginners and lifelong Lispers; can learn
> about the astounding power of Emacs, SLIME, etc. as needed
>
> My only recommendation: bundle the entire Starter Pack library by
> default, in addition to cl-ppcre.
>
> This addresses almost my entire list of complaints about getting new
> developers started with Common Lisp.
>
> Much thanks to John Wiegley! Will immediately point anyone with a Mac
> interested in learning Lisp to Ready Lisp!
>
> -jimbo
Tempting post about Genera 2.0 running on linux,
http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/symbolics.lisp.machine.php
however I was unable to find the linux binaries with google and
author doesn't advice where are they, Anybody know where they are?
Slobodan
In article <························@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 2:58 pm, ········@gmail.com wrote:
> > This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
> > have a Mac).
> >
> > (blog post)http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
> >
> > (direct link)ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
> >
> > It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
> > when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
> > are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
> >
> > Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
> >
> > - Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
> > because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
> > correpsonding Emacs commands
> > - zero configuration, double click and start Lisping
> > - no restrictions of any kind (like you have with free versions of
> > commercial Lisp)
> > - SBCL comes with asdf-install installed and configured, so easy to
> > get libraries
> > - cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
> > environment
> > - good environment both for beginners and lifelong Lispers; can learn
> > about the astounding power of Emacs, SLIME, etc. as needed
> >
> > My only recommendation: bundle the entire Starter Pack library by
> > default, in addition to cl-ppcre.
> >
> > This addresses almost my entire list of complaints about getting new
> > developers started with Common Lisp.
> >
> > Much thanks to John Wiegley! Will immediately point anyone with a Mac
> > interested in learning Lisp to Ready Lisp!
> >
> > -jimbo
>
> Tempting post about Genera 2.0 running on linux,
> http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/symbolics.lisp.machine.php
> however I was unable to find the linux binaries with google and
> author doesn't advice where are they, Anybody know where they are?
>
> Slobodan
Make sure that you know that this is a commercial system
costing $5000. The linux port is buggy and barely
ready for use. Open Genera is definitely not
for 'beginners' and it is not Open Source.
On Nov 7, 7:23 pm, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> In article <························@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
> Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 7, 2:58 pm, ········@gmail.com wrote:
> > > This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
> > > have a Mac).
>
> > > (blog post)http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
>
> > > (direct link)ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
>
> > > It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
> > > when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
> > > are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
>
> > > Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
>
> > > - Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
> > > because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
> > > correpsonding Emacs commands
> > > - zero configuration, double click and start Lisping
> > > - no restrictions of any kind (like you have with free versions of
> > > commercial Lisp)
> > > - SBCL comes with asdf-install installed and configured, so easy to
> > > get libraries
> > > - cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
> > > environment
> > > - good environment both for beginners and lifelong Lispers; can learn
> > > about the astounding power of Emacs, SLIME, etc. as needed
>
> > > My only recommendation: bundle the entire Starter Pack library by
> > > default, in addition to cl-ppcre.
>
> > > This addresses almost my entire list of complaints about getting new
> > > developers started with Common Lisp.
>
> > > Much thanks to John Wiegley! Will immediately point anyone with a Mac
> > > interested in learning Lisp to Ready Lisp!
>
> > > -jimbo
>
> > Tempting post about Genera 2.0 running on linux,
> >http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/symbolics.lisp.machine.php
> > however I was unable to find the linux binaries with google and
> > author doesn't advice where are they, Anybody know where they are?
>
> > Slobodan
>
> Make sure that you know that this is a commercial system
> costing $5000. The linux port is buggy and barely
> ready for use. Open Genera is definitely not
> for 'beginners' and it is not Open Source.
Are the linux binaries mentioned warez?
Slobodan
On Nov 7, 7:31 pm, Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 7, 7:23 pm, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <························@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
> > Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 7, 2:58 pm, ········@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > This looks to me like the ultimate Lisp beginner's environment (if you
> > > > have a Mac).
>
> > > > (blog post)http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/ready.lisp.on.osx.php
>
> > > > (direct link)ftp://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/lisp/ReadyLisp.dmg
>
> > > > It is Aquamacs bundled with SBCL, and launches directly into a REPL
> > > > when you double click on the .app. It bundles paredit and cldoc which
> > > > are turned on by default. It also bundles cl-ppcre.
>
> > > > Reasons why this is the perfect beginner's environment on the Mac:
>
> > > > - Aquamacs reduces the barriers to adopting Emacs for Mac users,
> > > > because it maps the standard "command" key shortcuts to the
> > > > correpsonding Emacs commands
> > > > - zero configuration, double click and start Lisping
> > > > - no restrictions of any kind (like you have with free versions of
> > > > commercial Lisp)
> > > > - SBCL comes with asdf-install installed and configured, so easy to
> > > > get libraries
> > > > - cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
> > > > environment
> > > > - good environment both for beginners and lifelong Lispers; can learn
> > > > about the astounding power of Emacs, SLIME, etc. as needed
>
> > > > My only recommendation: bundle the entire Starter Pack library by
> > > > default, in addition to cl-ppcre.
>
> > > > This addresses almost my entire list of complaints about getting new
> > > > developers started with Common Lisp.
>
> > > > Much thanks to John Wiegley! Will immediately point anyone with a Mac
> > > > interested in learning Lisp to Ready Lisp!
>
> > > > -jimbo
>
> > > Tempting post about Genera 2.0 running on linux,
> > >http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/symbolics.lisp.machine.php
> > > however I was unable to find the linux binaries with google and
> > > author doesn't advice where are they, Anybody know where they are?
>
> > > Slobodan
>
> > Make sure that you know that this is a commercial system
> > costing $5000. The linux port is buggy and barely
> > ready for use. Open Genera is definitely not
> > for 'beginners' and it is not Open Source.
>
> Are the linux binaries mentioned warez?
>
> Slobodan
They are not for public distribution. As I said, Open Genera is a
commercial system. Contact David Schmidt if you
are interested to help funding the completion of the Linux port. Still
it costs $5000.
> - cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
> environment
I advise against cldoc. The (extended) arglist display of Slime is in
many cases more convenient (and only lacks some certain things in some
very specific cases, which are supposed to be addressed eventually
anyway.)
-T.
Tobias C. Rittweiler wrote:
>> - cldoc on top of SLIME makes for truly excellent development
>> environment
>
> I advise against cldoc. The (extended) arglist display of Slime is in
> many cases more convenient (and only lacks some certain things in some
> very specific cases, which are supposed to be addressed eventually
> anyway.)
Superficially, cldoc looks very nice, and is obviously independent of
SLIME. So it can be used with other development environments as well.
Are there other alternatives? I know about albert, and some much older
libraries, but none of them looked really convincing to me...
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Pascal Costanza <··@p-cos.net> writes:
> Tobias C. Rittweiler wrote:
>
> > I advise against cldoc. The (extended) arglist display of Slime is in
> > many cases more convenient (and only lacks some certain things in some
> > very specific cases, which are supposed to be addressed eventually
> > anyway.)
>
> Superficially, cldoc looks very nice, and is obviously independent of
> SLIME. So it can be used with other development environments as well.
>
> Are there other alternatives? I know about albert, and some much older
> libraries, but none of them looked really convincing to me...
Alternatives that work without Slime? I think Franz's ELI package also
got arglist display support, but I don't think it's as convenient as
Slime's.
I don't think I understand what you want to know exactly. If you want
arglist display that works reliably, and not only for things defined by
the spec, but also for user defined function / macros, you'd have to
implement half of the core of Slime anyway to get there.
-T.
Tobias C. Rittweiler wrote:
> Pascal Costanza <··@p-cos.net> writes:
>
>> Tobias C. Rittweiler wrote:
>>
>>> I advise against cldoc. The (extended) arglist display of Slime is in
>>> many cases more convenient (and only lacks some certain things in some
>>> very specific cases, which are supposed to be addressed eventually
>>> anyway.)
>> Superficially, cldoc looks very nice, and is obviously independent of
>> SLIME. So it can be used with other development environments as well.
>>
>> Are there other alternatives? I know about albert, and some much older
>> libraries, but none of them looked really convincing to me...
>
> Alternatives that work without Slime? I think Franz's ELI package also
> got arglist display support, but I don't think it's as convenient as
> Slime's.
>
> I don't think I understand what you want to know exactly. If you want
> arglist display that works reliably, and not only for things defined by
> the spec, but also for user defined function / macros, you'd have to
> implement half of the core of Slime anyway to get there.
Er, maybe I am missing something, but cldoc is a tool that generates
HTML pages with documentation from Lisp code. See
http://common-lisp.net/project/cldoc/
Are we talking about the same thing here?
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Pascal Costanza <··@p-cos.net> writes:
> Tobias C. Rittweiler wrote:
> > Pascal Costanza <··@p-cos.net> writes:
> >
> > > Superficially, cldoc looks very nice, and is obviously independent of
> > > SLIME. So it can be used with other development environments as well.
> > >
> > > Are there other alternatives? I know about albert, and some much older
> > > libraries, but none of them looked really convincing to me...
> >
> > ...
> >
> > I don't think I understand what you want to know exactly. If you want
> > arglist display that works reliably, and not only for things defined by
> > the spec, but also for user defined function / macros, you'd have to
> > implement half of the core of Slime anyway to get there.
>
> Er, maybe I am missing something, but cldoc is a tool that generates
> HTML pages with documentation from Lisp code. See
> http://common-lisp.net/project/cldoc/
Well, d'oh. The OP (and myself) was refering to cldoc.el:
http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/emacs/elisp/cldoc.el
-T.
Tobias C. Rittweiler wrote:
> Pascal Costanza <··@p-cos.net> writes:
>
>> Tobias C. Rittweiler wrote:
>>> Pascal Costanza <··@p-cos.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Superficially, cldoc looks very nice, and is obviously independent of
>>>> SLIME. So it can be used with other development environments as well.
>>>>
>>>> Are there other alternatives? I know about albert, and some much older
>>>> libraries, but none of them looked really convincing to me...
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I don't think I understand what you want to know exactly. If you want
>>> arglist display that works reliably, and not only for things defined by
>>> the spec, but also for user defined function / macros, you'd have to
>>> implement half of the core of Slime anyway to get there.
>> Er, maybe I am missing something, but cldoc is a tool that generates
>> HTML pages with documentation from Lisp code. See
>> http://common-lisp.net/project/cldoc/
>
> Well, d'oh. The OP (and myself) was refering to cldoc.el:
>
> http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/emacs/elisp/cldoc.el
OK. :)
I guess at some stage, all the cl-xyz acronyms are used up... ;)
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/