From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <k_vOh.24$JM5.12@newsfe12.lga>
Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
Taking a break now, will be scanning later for typos.
If you can think of anyone who would be interested, please pass it
along. We're talking Lisp jobs here!
kzo
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: Tim Howe
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <87d52txnu4.fsf@rash.quadium.net>
Ken Tilton <···@theoryyalgebra.com> writes:
> Taking a break now, will be scanning later for typos.
Overall it's nicely put together. I did notice some layout glitches.
In Firefox some of the text (particularly on the first few slides) ends
up overlapping or obscured by the images.
Also, I think embedding WAVs tends to be hit or miss on different
platforms. The only real alternatives are Java or Flash though, so I
guess 6 of one, half dozen of another.
> If you can think of anyone who would be interested, please pass it
> along. We're talking Lisp jobs here!
Looks great, have already forwarded it to a friend who's a
schoolteacher.
--
vsync
http://quadium.net/~vsync/
Every answer asks a more beautiful question.
-- http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <E%yOh.20$_L5.10@newsfe12.lga>
Tim Howe wrote:
> Ken Tilton <···@theoryyalgebra.com> writes:
>
>
>>Taking a break now, will be scanning later for typos.
>
>
> Overall it's nicely put together.
Thx.
> I did notice some layout glitches.
> In Firefox some of the text (particularly on the first few slides) ends
> up overlapping or obscured by the images.
OK, I'll try for more whitespace.
>
> Also, I think embedding WAVs tends to be hit or miss on different
> platforms. The only real alternatives are Java or Flash though, so I
> guess 6 of one, half dozen of another.
I was just dashing off to grab Flash when I tackled myself from behind
and made me use Yahoo Sitebuilder.
>
>
>>If you can think of anyone who would be interested, please pass it
>>along. We're talking Lisp jobs here!
>
>
> Looks great, have already forwarded it to a friend who's a
> schoolteacher.
Thanks. It will be interesting this time around with the Internet. Last
time was tough. Even the reviews from Macworld and MacGuide did not
yield much.
Cheers, Ken
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: Dan Bensen
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <euedk4$oer$1@wildfire.prairienet.org>
Ken Tilton wrote:
> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
Very nice. Have you thought about putting this on the
interwebs? I like the idea of accumulating statistics
on what mistakes students are actually making, and doing
global upgrades on short notice. You could also market
directly to parents and adult-education students.
--
Dan
www.prairienet.org/~dsb/
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <rSCOh.243$Oh3.143@newsfe12.lga>
Dan Bensen wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
>
>
> Very nice.
Thx.
> Have you thought about putting this on the
> interwebs? I like the idea of accumulating statistics
> on what mistakes students are actually making, and doing
> global upgrades on short notice. You could also market
> directly to parents and adult-education students.
>
It will be somewhat interwebby, tho it is a desktop install. I'll keep
their profile on a server so they can log in from any system on which
the software has been installed and pick up where they left off. And
I'll do the "new version is available, want to DL and install?" thing to
grease the update skids.
As for true interwebby, just waiting for some yobbo to turn SBCL into a
Lisp browser plug-in. :)
Yeah, last time I was 50-50 home and school. And of the school a solid
chunk was community college.
Spoke to a CC prof at the show who was practically crying about the
situation. He said they offered pre-curriculum course in Algebrs. And
Pre-Algebra. And arithmetic. Hundreds and hundreds of enrollees.
Music to my mercenary ears. Tho one soul is trying to get me to make it
free. Not out of the question, just not yet.
kzo
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <QXCOh.244$Oh3.15@newsfe12.lga>
Ken Tilton wrote:
> Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
>
> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
>
> Taking a break now, will be scanning later for typos.
>
> If you can think of anyone who would be interested, please pass it
> along. We're talking Lisp jobs here!
haha, I have to confess, I thought it was just my eyes. Looks like I
have to re-shoot the demo. :(
One gaffe was to do the screen capture at JPG 75% quality, then pull
into photoshop and export at een lower quality. But mostly I am going to
change to Comic Sans MS and a slightly bigger size.
Very interesting visitor at the show slammed my Times Roman font. She
said she had printed a test in two versions, Times Roman and Comic Sans
and given them to different classes of commensurate ability. Comic Sans
did better. The sample size might be a whisker on the small side, but I
loved the fact that she even did the experiement.
kxo
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
> But mostly I am going to
> change to Comic Sans MS and a slightly bigger size.
>
> Very interesting visitor at the show slammed my Times Roman font. She
> said she had printed a test in two versions, Times Roman and Comic Sans
> and given them to different classes of commensurate ability. Comic Sans
> did better. The sample size might be a whisker on the small side, but I
> loved the fact that she even did the experiement.
>
I am going to end my lurking on cll hopefully to avert the atrosity of
comic sans invading the Lisp world...
Please Please do not use comic sans for the text! Maybe it's okay for
for that anime guy you've got there but otherwise don't use it! May I
suggest something sans-serif like Helvectica or Arial... That should
satisfy the teacher's and student's issues as well as keep your app
looking clean and professional (especially if you think it might be
used with a community college audience versus a junior high / high
school audience). If you are set on the comic look, I would suggest
http://www.bancomicsans.com and checking the fonts link on the left-
hand side.
save the children,
cmac
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <g1FOh.481$bz4.410@newsfe12.lga>
charlie mac wrote:
>>But mostly I am going to
>>change to Comic Sans MS and a slightly bigger size.
>>
>>Very interesting visitor at the show slammed my Times Roman font. She
>>said she had printed a test in two versions, Times Roman and Comic Sans
>>and given them to different classes of commensurate ability. Comic Sans
>>did better. The sample size might be a whisker on the small side, but I
>>loved the fact that she even did the experiement.
>>
>
>
> I am going to end my lurking on cll hopefully to avert the atrosity of
> comic sans invading the Lisp world...
> Please Please do not use comic sans for the text! Maybe it's okay for
> for that anime guy you've got there but otherwise don't use it! May I
> suggest something sans-serif like Helvectica or Arial... That should
> satisfy the teacher's and student's issues as well as keep your app
> looking clean and professional (especially if you think it might be
> used with a community college audience versus a junior high / high
> school audience). If you are set on the comic look, I would suggest
> http://www.bancomicsans.com and checking the fonts link on the left-
> hand side.
>
> save the children,
>
Let me begin by saying you have made my day by alerting me to this
movement to stop a font. No teapot too small, I guess.
But you are in error, and the web site profferred errs alike. Only by
probing furiously could I even unearth a /reason/ for the movement. In
re the type choice for a Do Not Enter sign:
"Clearly, Comic Sans as a voice conveys silliness, childish naivete,
irreverence, and is far too casual for such a purpose."
The issue then is not Comic Sans, the issue is functional suitability.
And the overarching issue is readability.
Now it is fine to specialize in opposing the unsuitable use of Comic
Sans because of its ubiquity, but your protest must still satisfy the
core requirements.
I think you lose on readability -- when I fired up my laptop for the
show I discovered I had the ACL editor font set to Comic Sans, and if
you want to challenge His Kennyness on whether anything other than
productivity intrudes on his IDE set-up decisions you long will rue the
day you dared delurk.
As for suitability of style to function, well, I positively wanted the
"feel" of a student working on paper. (For my Algebra software.) The
rant above talks about silliness and other pejoratives, but it also
gives up "casual", what I was after. The unsuitable result would be
doing math and seeing my "handwriting" appear as Times New Roman or
Bodoni (the type I think used by the serious math texts at which I looked).
As for the silliness, are they really taking that from the face or from
the name? I was using it just for the coach's hints, which will in fact
be restored to balloons when I manage to make that look decent. Anyway,
I really just see casual, and I did look at other handwriting fonts and
-- bad news -- the readability was horrendous.
The other bad news is that, untainted by awareness of the proposed
boycott, I have time again settled on Comic Sans after hours of trying
font after font after font, preparing short lists, holding runoffs and
shootouts. Even for editing Lisp.
Is it possible that it is just a frickin great readable font?
kt
ps. I agree, the "fingers will be chopped off" sign should not have been
Comic Sans. :) k
pps. You do /not/ want to zoom in on my banners used at the two trade
shows. :) k
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Well this is go number 2, I hope google doesn't lose this one.
I did not intend for the site linked to substitute for what would be
my argument against Comic Sans -- I was suggesting the fonts as
possible alternatives. When read your post, I got the impression that
there were really only 2 fonts under consideration, both of which are
overused and misused. I guess it's the typical knee-jerk reaction
anyone with some commercial art training would make upon hearing
someone utter -- or type -- the words Comic Sans or Papyrus. They know
that it's near impossible to make anything appear fresh and original
with those fonts.
But if, as you say, you have tested many fonts and Comic Sans still
best meets your design goals then you've gone much further than other
Comic Sans offenders :) so good on ya for that. I will refine my
argument into 2 suggestions: 1) consider extending your requirements
to include a "professional look and feel" for the font. ie something
that wont get blasted by a journalist for being cliche etc. 2) Barring
#1, at least consider making the font "skinnable" too
And since I'm already in UI critique mode, I would also add the
suggestion of using a sans-serif font (but not comic sans ;) ) or a
font with a slight serif and a little more volume/body for the menu
UI etc. I think if you find lots of precedence for sans-serif UI out
there. Times New Roman is pretty much avoided for anything except
paragraph volumes of text.
cmac
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <x9ROh.232$RA5.71@newsfe12.lga>
charlie mac wrote:
> Well this is go number 2, I hope google doesn't lose this one.
>
> I did not intend for the site linked to substitute for what would be
> my argument against Comic Sans -- I was suggesting the fonts as
> possible alternatives. When read your post, I got the impression that
> there were really only 2 fonts under consideration, both of which are
> overused and misused. I guess it's the typical knee-jerk reaction
> anyone with some commercial art training would make upon hearing
> someone utter -- or type -- the words Comic Sans or Papyrus. They know
> that it's near impossible to make anything appear fresh and original
> with those fonts.
Fair enough. I looked at a number of serious math books and based on the
lower case "g" decided they were all using Bodoni. Times New Roman I
think is closest.
Which consideration wins? Fresh/original or "this is what we use".
Wouldn't original be out of place when trying to look like you belong?
Speaking of which, I completely forgot that because of all the weird
math symbols (a few required in Algebra I) I am actually waiting for the
Open Source Fairy to finish this:
http://www.stixfonts.org/news.html
In which case Comic Sans sleeps with the.. no, the cartoon character
will still use it for its balloons.
> But if, as you say, you have tested many fonts and Comic Sans still
> best meets your design goals then you've gone much further than other
> Comic Sans offenders :) so good on ya for that.
Hours and hours, with playoffs and shootouts to decide the winner is my
approach, and I have a lot of fonts on my system. But! The Comic Sans
for the math per se was suggested by the booth visitor. I went along
because I had found it to be highly readable when testing fonts on my
booth banners:
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/Exhibit.html
Looks like it did not come away with many medals, but it often made it
into the later rounds.
> I will refine my
> argument into 2 suggestions: 1) consider extending your requirements
> to include a "professional look and feel" for the font.
No prob, Stix should be out by then, I'll be using that. Slipped my mind.
> ie something
> that wont get blasted by a journalist for being cliche etc.
You may not be aware of the math education crisis. Only one visitor in
six days noticed/mentioned the math editor. These are people fresh from
the front lines of a losing battle. Some 600 kids taking eveything from
Algebra to Arithmetic at one community college alone. Talk of using
three calendar years (age 11 to 13) to teach one year of Algebra.
One visitor in six days even noticed how slick the math editor was.
Partly because it is slick so they did not see me doing handstands to
create the fraction.
And there is nothing like mine out there. The textbook publisher said
TYA was the missing link: we have the computers but not the software. Me
and my bro fell out when she said that, because I had called the company
Missing Link Software when selling the original, for her precise reason.
> 2) Barring
> #1, at least consider making the font "skinnable" too
Even in Algebra we get the division symbol, >+ as one character, +/- as
one character, radicals, giant parens... Stix it is.
Thx for the input.
kt
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: Frank Goenninger DG1SBG
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <lzhcs239wb.fsf@pcsde001.de.goenninger.net>
Ken Tilton <···@theoryyalgebra.com> writes:
> Hours and hours, with playoffs and shootouts to decide the winner is
> my approach, and I have a lot of fonts on my system. But! The Comic
> Sans for the math per se was suggested by the booth visitor. I went
> along because I had found it to be highly readable when testing fonts
> on my booth banners:
>
> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/Exhibit.html
>
> Looks like it did not come away with many medals, but it often made it
> into the later rounds.
Looks like Susanne's finishing touch is missing ... ;-)
Frank
(message (Hello 'charlie)
(you :wrote :on '(28 Mar 2007 17:33:46 -0700))
(
cm> I am going to end my lurking on cll hopefully to avert the atrosity of
cm> comic sans invading the Lisp world...
cm> Please Please do not use comic sans for the text!
agreed. my first web sites were done in comic sans, but then i realized how
shitty does it look and switched to Verdana or Arial.
there are plenty of handwriting or irregular fonts (i'm afraid they are not
that widespread though) if something irregular is needed, but Comic looks
really idiotic :)
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"?? ???? ??????? ?????")
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <JhMOh.730$bz4.189@newsfe12.lga>
Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> (message (Hello 'charlie)
> (you :wrote :on '(28 Mar 2007 17:33:46 -0700))
> (
>
> cm> I am going to end my lurking on cll hopefully to avert the atrosity of
> cm> comic sans invading the Lisp world...
> cm> Please Please do not use comic sans for the text!
>
> agreed. my first web sites were done in comic sans, but then i realized how
> shitty does it look and switched to Verdana or Arial.
But you do not mention the content of your site, and the issue
appropriateness of type to content. Unless, of course, one is merely on
a mindless rampage.
The anti-comic sans site prominently displays an objectionable case: a
bubble gum wrapper. OK, fine, it is a mindless rampage.
> there are plenty of handwriting or irregular fonts (i'm afraid they are not
> that widespread though) if something irregular is needed, but Comic looks
> really idiotic :)
But that is an absolute judgment, and the issue is... oh, what's the
point. :)
Meanwhile, comp.lang.lisp strikes again, finding nothing to talk about
in re a burgeoning Lisp success story / possible math education solution
than choice of font.
I love you idiots -- and a good idiotic thread -- but I have some code
to write. :)
Meanhile, can someone explain how this looks so awful:
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo-19.html
While this looks so good?
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo-20.html
They look the same when the corresponding JPGs are viewed in a reader.
kt
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
(message (Hello 'Ken)
(you :wrote :on '(Thu, 29 Mar 2007 06:11:53 -0400))
(
KT> Meanwhile, comp.lang.lisp strikes again, finding nothing to talk about
KT> in re a burgeoning Lisp success story / possible math education
KT> solution than choice of font.
i, for one, welcome our new algebra overlords.
actually this algrebra software is very cool thing, hope it positively
affects math education..
i was developing somewhat similar solution at my final year in university --
it was optimization methods (linear/non-linear programming, simplex, etc)
educational application.. but yours is definitely much better :).
KT> Meanhile, can someone explain how this looks so awful:
KT> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo-19.html
KT> While this looks so good?
KT> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo-20.html
KT> They look the same when the corresponding JPGs are viewed in a reader.
first one is 34 KB while second is 81 KB, while size is aprox same. what did
you expect?
it seems that you've made this JPEGs in different editors, and for sure with
different JPEG quality. try increasing JPEG quality.
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"?? ???? ??????? ?????")
In article <·························@news.sunsite.dk>, Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> (message (Hello 'charlie)
> (you :wrote :on '(28 Mar 2007 17:33:46 -0700))
> (
>
> cm> I am going to end my lurking on cll hopefully to avert the atrosity of
> cm> comic sans invading the Lisp world...
> cm> Please Please do not use comic sans for the text!
>
> agreed. my first web sites were done in comic sans, but then i realized how
> shitty does it look and switched to Verdana or Arial.
> there are plenty of handwriting or irregular fonts (i'm afraid they are not
> that widespread though) if something irregular is needed, but Comic looks
> really idiotic :)
Hmm.. there are two (somewhat contradicting) surveys done at:
http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/POF.html
http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/81/PersonalityofFonts.htm
The latter study suggests that your view may be shared by others.
I'm not sure if this is of any relevance to Theory Y Algebra. I know
I'd hated Comic Sans back when studying algebra, probably because I'd
felt like being talked down. I found it interesting that the drawn
character (a teacher?) was not at all annoying in the sense the
choice of font was. Instead it looks rather nice.
Taneli
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <1eNOh.130$JM5.129@newsfe12.lga>
T Taneli Vahakangas wrote:
> In article <·························@news.sunsite.dk>, Alex Mizrahi wrote:
>
>>(message (Hello 'charlie)
>>(you :wrote :on '(28 Mar 2007 17:33:46 -0700))
>>(
>>
>> cm> I am going to end my lurking on cll hopefully to avert the atrosity of
>> cm> comic sans invading the Lisp world...
>> cm> Please Please do not use comic sans for the text!
>>
>>agreed. my first web sites were done in comic sans, but then i realized how
>>shitty does it look and switched to Verdana or Arial.
>>there are plenty of handwriting or irregular fonts (i'm afraid they are not
>>that widespread though) if something irregular is needed, but Comic looks
>>really idiotic :)
>
>
> Hmm.. there are two (somewhat contradicting) surveys done at:
>
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/91/POF.html
> http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/81/PersonalityofFonts.htm
>
> The latter study suggests that your view may be shared by others.
>
> I'm not sure if this is of any relevance to Theory Y Algebra. I know
> I'd hated Comic Sans back when studying algebra, probably because I'd
> felt like being talked down.
I dare say a font menu could nicely put an end to this debate.
> I found it interesting that the drawn
> character (a teacher?) was not at all annoying in the sense the
> choice of font was. Instead it looks rather nice.
Thx. The character is a tutor or coach, though I toyed with making it
just another student who sometimes asks the student for help. If they
can help, at some other point they can truly cheat off the virtual student.
John Saxon liked to throw old material into the mix of every assignment
so it stayed fresh. Maybe that is how we present the same approach: the
student sees a queue of help requests building up and can pile up points
by helping someone else on (hopefully) easier old material.
kt
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
On 28 Mar, 16:38, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
> Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
>
> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
(I know nothing about teaching so my comments may not be useful...)
I think the reward / visual feedback thing is nice. I never really
liked strategy or role playing games because I don't particularly like
the mythology angle but I always enjoyed the statistics element of
attaining and collecting points and I think your application of
something similar is good.
The only thing I found a bit confusing, but which probably makes more
sense when using the program itself, is the unlabeled yellow and blue
buttons and bars that appeared (I couldn't read all of the explanatory
text in Firefox last night so I may have missed some details).
Which of your Cell* technologies are in play here?
Phil
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <68NOh.129$JM5.85@newsfe12.lga>
···············@gmail.com wrote:
> On 28 Mar, 16:38, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
>
>>Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
>>
>> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
>
>
> (I know nothing about teaching so my comments may not be useful...)
>
> I think the reward / visual feedback thing is nice. I never really
> liked strategy or role playing games because I don't particularly like
> the mythology angle but I always enjoyed the statistics element of
> attaining and collecting points and I think your application of
> something similar is good.
Thx. Yeah, as corny as gold stars are, they work.
>
> The only thing I found a bit confusing, but which probably makes more
> sense when using the program itself, is the unlabeled yellow and blue
> buttons and bars that appeared (I couldn't read all of the explanatory
> text in Firefox last night so I may have missed some details).
The default will be that "tool tips" will be on, so one can always learn
what something does by pausing for two seconds over a control.
>
> Which of your Cell* technologies are in play here?
Cello atop Celtk atop Cells.
kt
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
On Mar 28, 5:38 pm, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
> Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
>
> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
>
> Taking a break now, will be scanning later for typos.
>
> If you can think of anyone who would be interested, please pass it
> along. We're talking Lisp jobs here!
>
> kzo
>
> --
>
> "As long as algebra is taught in school,
> there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
>
> "Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
> - Fran Lebowitz
>
> "I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
> - Tim Allen
>
> "Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
>
> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cool program, from my own little experience teaching algebra mostly to
my brother
the only effective thing to make student understand is not to tell
the solution,
nor point their mistake,but solve the problem with different numbers
so the student will get the pattern and understand where they make
mistake
for themselves.
cheers
bobi
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <AQQOh.13$yI.12@newsfe12.lga>
fireblade wrote:
> On Mar 28, 5:38 pm, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
>
>>Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
>>
>> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
>>
>>Taking a break now, will be scanning later for typos.
>>
>>If you can think of anyone who would be interested, please pass it
>>along. We're talking Lisp jobs here!
>>
>>kzo
>>
>>--
>>
>>"As long as algebra is taught in school,
>>there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
>>
>>"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
>> - Fran Lebowitz
>>
>>"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
>> - Tim Allen
>>
>>"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
>>
>>http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
>
>
> Cool program, from my own little experience teaching algebra mostly to
> my brother
> the only effective thing to make student understand is not to tell
> the solution,
> nor point their mistake,but solve the problem with different numbers
> so the student will get the pattern and understand where they make
> mistake
> for themselves.
Yep. One big advantage of the new software is what I mislabel "cloning",
since clones are identical (or so I understand). Anyway...
The old program forced the student to go to a problem generation
dialogue and then specify type, subtype, and difficulty to generate a
clone. But if they are stuck they do not know what to look for? Never
mind that that is so much work they will not do it.
The new program automatically generates a clone with one click, of the
whole problem or of the last correct step, as seen here:
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo-22.html
The astute yobbo will notice a flaw in the clone: unlike the original,
the clone does not require the fraction be reduced. Well, it is not
really a flaw, I just have not finished that bit yet. :)
kzo
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
On Mar 28, 8:38 am, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
> Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
>
> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
>
Ken, great work!!! Who says Lisp is a sterile academic language?
*thpppppppptt* ;)
Your website is a little wonky about the text layout -- there are a
lot of line breaks where there shouldn't be. But please don't use
Flash because (a.) it's text and pictures, why do you need all that
baggage of Flash? and (b.) if you're blind, Flash makes your life
harder.
I'm not sure if an inter-student collaborative approach would be good
because it would turn into a task market. Many skilled students have
little intrinsic incentive to be good tutors, and a lot of extrinsic
incentive to be "answer oracles." It's better to pick out a small
number of students who are good tutors, and set them up a tutoring
infrastructure, with logins and passwords and some sort of accounting
or logging (so that teachers can check up on the tutors and make sure
they aren't just being answer oracles).
In any case, great work!!! I've tutored math before and I know how
frustrating it can be for both parties if there is a huge skills gap
-- automating the tutor can take away a lot of the "why don't you get
it?" frustration that makes the student feel discouraged.
Double thumbs up!
mfh
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Theory Y Algebra screenshots, or, What can you do with Lisp in one year?
Date:
Message-ID: <baWOh.159$xP.73@newsfe12.lga>
············@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mar 28, 8:38 am, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
>
>>Pretty much the demo that wowed them in Anaheim and Atlanta:
>>
>> http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/demo.html
>>
>
>
> Ken, great work!!! Who says Lisp is a sterile academic language?
> *thpppppppptt* ;)
Thanks much.
>
> Your website is a little wonky about the text layout -- there are a
> lot of line breaks where there shouldn't be. But please don't use
> Flash because (a.) it's text and pictures, why do you need all that
> baggage of Flash? and (b.) if you're blind, Flash makes your life
> harder.
>
> I'm not sure if an inter-student collaborative approach would be good
> because it would turn into a task market.
I have considered such a thing, but in this case I just meant as a
metaphor, ie, the /tone/ would be peer-peer. For example, instead of
asking the tutor to check my work, I would ask my still virtual
/neighbor/ if he/she had the same thing on that step.
> Many skilled students have
> little intrinsic incentive to be good tutors, and a lot of extrinsic
> incentive to be "answer oracles."
Yep.
> In any case, great work!!! I've tutored math before and I know how
> frustrating it can be for both parties if there is a huge skills gap
> -- automating the tutor can take away a lot of the "why don't you get
> it?" frustration that makes the student feel discouraged.
Yes, I do not harp on that a lot, but while a human tutor may be vastly
more insightful and communicate vastly more effectively, there is
something nice about being able to fail in privacy. Indeed, I plan to
make the character's appearance optional, with ints just appearing as if
they came from software instead of a person. It will be interesting to
see how many kids elect to work without even the company of an avatar.
Thx for kind words.
ken
--
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/