From: Jon Harrop
Subject: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <46798df8$0$8739$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
:-)
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The OCaml Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_journal/?usenet
From: Lars Rune Nøstdal
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <4679987c$0$7442$c83e3ef6@nn1-read.tele2.net>
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:22:43 +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
> :-)
:)))))))))))))))))) !!!!!
..get lost; no one cares, except the ones you annoy .. what's your target
and/or goal, kid?
From: Barry Kelly
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <167j735iemreu1t19qjv2ahtlmbq613832@4ax.com>
Here are the contents of the subject line:
Subject: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help
in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets
the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc,
thanks."
(For those clients whose subject line doesn't scroll... :) )
Jon Harrop wrote:
>
> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> :-)
-- Barry
--
http://barrkel.blogspot.com/
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <joswig-CD257E.22365820062007@news-europe.giganews.com>
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <joswig-149952.20384121062007@news-europe.giganews.com>
In article <····························@news-europe.giganews.com>,
Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> In article <························@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
> Jon Harrop <···@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>
> > http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
> >
> > :-)
>
> ___________________________
> /| /| | |
> ||__|| | Please don't |
> / O O\__ feed |
> / \ the trolls |
> / \ \ |
> / _ \ \ ----------------------
> / |\____\ \ ||
> / | | | |\____/ ||
> / \|_|_|/ | __||
> / / \ |____| ||
> / | | /| | --|
> | | |// |____ --|
> * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
> *-- _--\ _ \ // |
> / _ \\ _ // | /
> * / \_ /- | - | |
> * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
Didn't I say this is trolling? Wrong! It was trolling squared.
http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
...
I wrote this article in part to try to figure out why the Lisp
community is small compared to others. Contrasting the community with
that of Python and Ruby is reasonable. If I'd rewrite this article
today I'd place far less emphasis on time. Time wasn't important at
all.. I always try to be patient when I'm on other people's time.
...
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
From: Larry Clapp
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <slrnf7lkgp.ou5.larry@theclapp.ddts.net>
On 2007-06-21, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> In article <····························@news-europe.giganews.com>,
> Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
>> In article <························@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
>> Jon Harrop <···@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>>
>> > http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>> >
>> > :-)
>
> Didn't I say this is trolling? Wrong! It was trolling squared.
>
> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> ...
>
> I wrote this article in part to try to figure out why the Lisp
> community is small compared to others. Contrasting the community
> with that of Python and Ruby is reasonable. If I'd rewrite this
> article today I'd place far less emphasis on time. Time wasn't
> important at all.. I always try to be patient when I'm on other
> people's time.
That wasn't there yesterday.
Palish's attitude strikes me as someone caught accidentally
verbalizing their inner feelings, or "using their out-loud voice":
<rant rant rant>
<attention from others>
"Holy crap, you *heard* that?
<backpedal and apologize>
But maybe I'm just projecting my own insecurities onto him. (I seem
to recall reading several rants on that topic in this forum.)
From: fireblade
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182512986.989614.276890@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 21, 8:38 pm, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> In article <····························@news-europe.giganews.com>,
> Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <························@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
> > Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>
> > > http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> > > :-)
>
> > ___________________________
> > /| /| | |
> > ||__|| | Please don't |
> > / O O\__ feed |
> > / \ the trolls |
> > / \ \ |
> > / _ \ \ ----------------------
> > / |\____\ \ ||
> > / | | | |\____/ ||
> > / \|_|_|/ | __||
> > / / \ |____| ||
> > / | | /| | --|
> > | | |// |____ --|
> > * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
> > *-- _--\ _ \ // |
> > / _ \\ _ // | /
> > * / \_ /- | - | |
> > * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
>
> Didn't I say this is trolling? Wrong! It was trolling squared.
>
> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> ...
>
> I wrote this article in part to try to figure out why the Lisp
> community is small compared to others. Contrasting the community with
> that of Python and Ruby is reasonable. If I'd rewrite this article
> today I'd place far less emphasis on time. Time wasn't important at
> all.. I always try to be patient when I'm on other people's time.
>
> ...
>
> --http://lispm.dyndns.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
There's no such thing as bad publicity. As long as they spell your
name right. As long as your face and name is out there, as long as
you're dancing in the public eye it doesn't matter whether your laces
are untied or your sock has a hole or your hair looks like you combed
it with a corkscrew. Any publicity is good publicity.
Look at this guy Bruce started with utter rubbish and now he's
actually doing (*)lisp and himself a favour. before
http://brucio.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-lisp.html now http://brucio.blogspot.com/.
Slobodan Blazeski
My apologies to those who like Java, C#, PHP, Delphi, Visual Basic,
Perl, Python, Ruby, COBOL, F#, Ocaml or any other language. I know you
think you know a better language than lisp. All I can say is I do,
too!
(*) When I say lisp I mean Common Lisp
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <joswig-F1E760.14204622062007@news-europe.giganews.com>
In article <························@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> There's no such thing as bad publicity. As long as they spell your
> name right. As long as your face and name is out there, as long as
> you're dancing in the public eye it doesn't matter whether your laces
> are untied or your sock has a hole or your hair looks like you combed
> it with a corkscrew. Any publicity is good publicity.
>
>
> Look at this guy Bruce started with utter rubbish and now he's
> actually doing (*)lisp and himself a favour. before
> http://brucio.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-lisp.html now http://brucio.blogspot.com/.
Definitely keep an eye on his blog. Maybe you can help him
to get over the hurdles. ;-)
>
> Slobodan Blazeski
>
> My apologies to those who like Java, C#, PHP, Delphi, Visual Basic,
> Perl, Python, Ruby, COBOL, F#, Ocaml or any other language. I know you
> think you know a better language than lisp. All I can say is I do,
> too!
>
> (*) When I say lisp I mean Common Lisp
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
From: fireblade
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182520503.749599.119460@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 22, 2:20 pm, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> In article <························@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There's no such thing as bad publicity. As long as they spell your
> > name right. As long as your face and name is out there, as long as
> > you're dancing in the public eye it doesn't matter whether your laces
> > are untied or your sock has a hole or your hair looks like you combed
> > it with a corkscrew. Any publicity is good publicity.
>
> > Look at this guy Bruce started with utter rubbish and now he's
> > actually doing (*)lisp and himself a favour. before
> >http://brucio.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-lisp.htmlnowhttp://brucio.blogspot.com/.
>
> Definitely keep an eye on his blog. Maybe you can help him
> to get over the hurdles. ;-)
He made mistakes ,bit he's on the right path now.That's what is
important. Why are you so bitter ? If someone told me that lisp is a
better language than c++ couple of years ago I would think he's an
total moron.
Slobodan Blazeski
My apologies to those who like Java, C#, PHP, Delphi, Visual
Basic,Perl, Python, Ruby, COBOL, F#, Ocaml or any other language. I
know you think you know a better language than lisp. All I can say is
I do, too!
(*) When I say lisp I mean Common Lisp
From: Chris Russell
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182523338.898895.146190@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
On 22 Jun, 14:55, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> He made mistakes ,bit he's on the right path now.That's what is
> important. Why are you so bitter ? If someone told me that lisp is a
> better language than c++ couple of years ago I would think he's an
> total moron.
I agree, Brucio's awesome. I just wish he would update more often to
let us know how it's going.
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <joswig-E250DF.17260122062007@news-europe.giganews.com>
In article <························@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 22, 2:20 pm, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> > In article <························@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > There's no such thing as bad publicity. As long as they spell your
> > > name right. As long as your face and name is out there, as long as
> > > you're dancing in the public eye it doesn't matter whether your laces
> > > are untied or your sock has a hole or your hair looks like you combed
> > > it with a corkscrew. Any publicity is good publicity.
> >
> > > Look at this guy Bruce started with utter rubbish and now he's
> > > actually doing (*)lisp and himself a favour. before
> > >http://brucio.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-lisp.htmlnowhttp://brucio.blogspot.com/.
> >
> > Definitely keep an eye on his blog. Maybe you can help him
> > to get over the hurdles. ;-)
>
>
> He made mistakes ,bit he's on the right path now.That's what is
> important. Why are you so bitter ? If someone told me that lisp is a
> better language than c++ couple of years ago I would think he's an
> total moron.
I'm not bitter. I just say: give him some help. That's what the Lisp
community is about: Supporting each other.
We need people like you and him. ;-)
>
> Slobodan Blazeski
>
> My apologies to those who like Java, C#, PHP, Delphi, Visual
> Basic,Perl, Python, Ruby, COBOL, F#, Ocaml or any other language. I
> know you think you know a better language than lisp. All I can say is
> I do, too!
>
> (*) When I say lisp I mean Common Lisp
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
From: Damien Kick
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <H%dfi.319$zA4.61@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Rainer Joswig wrote:
> In article <····························@news-europe.giganews.com>,
> Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> [...]
>> In article <························@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
>> Jon Harrop <···@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>> [...]
> Didn't I say this is trolling? Wrong! It was trolling squared.
<frown> Thanks to my kill file, I might have thought that there had been
a complete remission of the Discommodiously Defenestrated Toad from
comp.lang.lisp, had you not copied his agentry not once but twice. I'd
say that is trolling quadrupled.
From: Jon Harrop
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <467dc259$0$8713$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Damien Kick wrote:
> <frown> Thanks to my kill file, I might have thought that there had been
> a complete remission of the Discommodiously Defenestrated Toad from
> comp.lang.lisp, had you not copied his agentry not once but twice. I'd
> say that is trolling quadrupled.
Indeed, Rainer is the key to my success. I first discovered this phenomenon
with Thomas Fischbacher (another vocal Lisper)...
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The OCaml Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_journal/?usenet
From: Raffael Cavallaro
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <2007062323182964440-raffaelcavallaro@pasdespamsilvousplaitmaccom>
On 2007-06-23 20:55:22 -0400, Jon Harrop <···@ffconsultancy.com> said:
> Indeed, Rainer is the key to my success. I first discovered this phenomenon
> with Thomas Fischbacher (another vocal Lisper)...
_________________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please don't |
/ O O\__ | feed |
/ \ the trolls |
/ \ \ |
/ _ \ \ ----------------------
/ |\____\ \ | |
/ | | | |\____/ | |
/ \|_|_|/ \ _| |
/ / \ / \____( _ \|
/ | \ /| _( /_)
| | \\|// \______\ (__)
/ \// \\ \ \|(_/
| ) \ | |
|_|_|_|/ | \ \|
c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c
******** ******** ******
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <G8vfi.130$051.39@newsfe12.lga>
Jon Harrop wrote:
> Damien Kick wrote:
>
>><frown> Thanks to my kill file, I might have thought that there had been
>>a complete remission of the Discommodiously Defenestrated Toad from
>>comp.lang.lisp, had you not copied his agentry not once but twice. I'd
>>say that is trolling quadrupled.
>
>
> Indeed, Rainer is the key to my success. I first discovered this phenomenon
> with Thomas Fischbacher (another vocal Lisper)...
>
F*ck. I am scr*w*d. Either this toad dies or I am proven wrong on "there
is no such thing as bad publicity"....Hang on. A simple adjustment saves
the day, I think: "There is no such thing as bad publicity, unless the
publicity is you."
Not sure on this, but it has a ring to it. Now let's track the outcome
with a JH v. Paul Graham Google Fight, baseline 78k to 1.3m.
kenny
From: fireblade
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182410009.744589.259080@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 20, 10:22 pm, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> :-)
>
> --
> Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
> The OCaml Journalhttp://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_journal/?usenet
As per my new policy for dealing with trolls see :
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/894247d734e5895e/94827cf0fbe060f6?lnk=gst&q=Everything+in+your+history+says+you+are.+&rnum=1#94827cf0fbe060f6
So If you ever ask a trollish question ,which you alredy did, you get
a lisp programming problem if you solve it you get reply else
silence.
Here it is :
Drop every N'th element from a list.
Example:
* (drop '(a b c d e f g h i k) 3)
(A B D E G H K)
Slobodan Blazeski
My apologies to those who like Java, C#, PHP, Delphi, Visual Basic,
Perl, Python, Ruby, COBOL,F#,Ocaml or any other language. I know you
think you know a better language than lisp. All I can say is I do,
too!
From: Frank Buss
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1jleyc9jcxrxn$.4utktr7zk7go$.dlg@40tude.net>
fireblade wrote:
> So If you ever ask a trollish question ,which you alredy did, you get
> a lisp programming problem if you solve it you get reply else
> silence.
> Here it is :
> Drop every N'th element from a list.
> Example:
> * (drop '(a b c d e f g h i k) 3)
> (A B D E G H K)
I'm guilty responding to a spammer, who doesn't help Lisp or OCaml by
posting wrong statements about it, so I'll solve your problem:
(defun drop (list n)
(loop for item in list
for i = 1 then (1+ i)
when (/= (mod i n) 0) collect item))
Of course, in Haskell I can write it like this:
myDrop list n=[list!!x|x<-[0..length list-1], mod (1+x) n/=0]
and I'm sure this is not the shortest solution. But for me it is more
difficult to develop pure functional algorithms than using Lisp.
--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
From: ZeD
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <B79fi.46375$%k.172682@twister2.libero.it>
Frank Buss wrote:
> Of course, in Haskell I can write it like this:
>
> myDrop list n=[list!!x|x<-[0..length list-1], mod (1+x) n/=0]
def drop(myList, n):
return [item for i, item in enumerate(myList) if (i+1)%n]
quite readable, not?
(python version of list comprehension)
--
Under construction
In article <·····················@twister2.libero.it>,
ZeD <·············@gmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Buss wrote:
>
> > Of course, in Haskell I can write it like this:
> >
> > myDrop list n=[list!!x|x<-[0..length list-1], mod (1+x) n/=0]
>
> def drop(myList, n):
> return [item for i, item in enumerate(myList) if (i+1)%n]
>
> quite readable, not?
> (python version of list comprehension)
I find the Python version hard to parse.
Same for this:
(loop for item in list and i from 1 unless (zerop (mod i n)) collect item)
This is a bit better:
(loop for item in list and i from 1
unless (zerop (mod i n))
collect item)
Then the ITERATE syntax is better...
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
In article <································@40tude.net>,
Frank Buss <··@frank-buss.de> wrote:
> fireblade wrote:
>
> > So If you ever ask a trollish question ,which you alredy did, you get
> > a lisp programming problem if you solve it you get reply else
> > silence.
> > Here it is :
> > Drop every N'th element from a list.
> > Example:
> > * (drop '(a b c d e f g h i k) 3)
> > (A B D E G H K)
>
> I'm guilty responding to a spammer, who doesn't help Lisp or OCaml by
> posting wrong statements about it, so I'll solve your problem:
>
> (defun drop (list n)
> (loop for item in list
> for i = 1 then (1+ i)
> when (/= (mod i n) 0) collect item))
>
> Of course, in Haskell I can write it like this:
>
> myDrop list n=[list!!x|x<-[0..length list-1], mod (1+x) n/=0]
>
> and I'm sure this is not the shortest solution. But for me it is more
> difficult to develop pure functional algorithms than using Lisp.
It is not that difficult.
(defun drop (list n)
(labels ((drop-aux (list i)
(cond ((null list) nil)
((= i 1) (drop-aux (rest list) n))
(t (cons (first list)
(drop-aux (rest list) (1- i)))))))
(drop-aux list n)))
There are many extra points to get for a version using 'Series'.
A few extra points for a tail-recursive version.
Or you can take this one:
(defun every-nth (n)
(let ((i n))
(lambda ()
(prog1 (= i 1)
(decf i)
(when (zerop i)
(setf i n))))))
Above returns a function that returns T for every n-th call.
(defun drop (list n)
(remove-if (every-nth n) list))
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
On 23 Jun, 13:51, Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> wrote:
> In article <································@40tude.net>,
> Frank Buss <····@frank-buss.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > fireblade wrote:
>
> > > So If you ever ask a trollish question ,which you alredy did, you get
> > > a lisp programming problem if you solve it you get reply else
> > > silence.
> > > Here it is :
> > > Drop every N'th element from a list.
> > > Example:
> > > * (drop '(a b c d e f g h i k) 3)
> > > (A B D E G H K)
>
> > I'm guilty responding to a spammer, who doesn't help Lisp or OCaml by
> > posting wrong statements about it, so I'll solve your problem:
>
> > (defun drop (list n)
> > (loop for item in list
> > for i = 1 then (1+ i)
> > when (/= (mod i n) 0) collect item))
>
> > Of course, in Haskell I can write it like this:
>
> > myDrop list n=[list!!x|x<-[0..length list-1], mod (1+x) n/=0]
>
> > and I'm sure this is not the shortest solution. But for me it is more
> > difficult to develop pure functional algorithms than using Lisp.
>
> It is not that difficult.
>
> (defun drop (list n)
> (labels ((drop-aux (list i)
> (cond ((null list) nil)
> ((= i 1) (drop-aux (rest list) n))
> (t (cons (first list)
> (drop-aux (rest list) (1- i)))))))
> (drop-aux list n)))
>
> There are many extra points to get for a version using 'Series'.
> A few extra points for a tail-recursive version.
>
> Or you can take this one:
>
> (defun every-nth (n)
> (let ((i n))
> (lambda ()
> (prog1 (= i 1)
> (decf i)
> (when (zerop i)
> (setf i n))))))
>
> Above returns a function that returns T for every n-th call.
>
> (defun drop (list n)
> (remove-if (every-nth n) list))
>
> --http://lispm.dyndns.org
Obligatory 1 line solution using map__:
(defun remove-nth(n list)
(mapcan (let ((tick 0))(lambda(x) (when (/= 0 (rem (incf tick) n))
(list x)))list))
Rainer Joswig wrote:
> Or you can take this one:
>
>
> (defun every-nth (n)
> (let ((i n))
> (lambda ()
> (prog1 (= i 1)
> (decf i)
> (when (zerop i)
> (setf i n))))))
>
> Above returns a function that returns T for every n-th call.
>
> (defun drop (list n)
> (remove-if (every-nth n) list))
First I've thought of a solution like this, too, but I was not sure, if it
is guaranteed that remove-if iterates all elements in order. If I didn't
overlook something in the CLHS, it is only guaranteed that the order of the
result list is the same like the input list, but it is not specified in
which order the elements are applied to the supplied function.
--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
In article <································@40tude.net>,
Frank Buss <··@frank-buss.de> wrote:
> Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> > Or you can take this one:
> >
> >
> > (defun every-nth (n)
> > (let ((i n))
> > (lambda ()
> > (prog1 (= i 1)
> > (decf i)
> > (when (zerop i)
> > (setf i n))))))
> >
> > Above returns a function that returns T for every n-th call.
> >
> > (defun drop (list n)
> > (remove-if (every-nth n) list))
>
> First I've thought of a solution like this, too, but I was not sure, if it
> is guaranteed that remove-if iterates all elements in order. If I didn't
> overlook something in the CLHS, it is only guaranteed that the order of the
> result list is the same like the input list, but it is not specified in
> which order the elements are applied to the supplied function.
I don't see that either. I wonder why it hasn't been specified.
Then we need our own remove-if...
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
From: Khookie
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182389937.152756.214530@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 21, 6:22 am, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> :-)
>
> --
> Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
> The OCaml Journalhttp://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_journal/?usenet
So what did it actually say? The link was down.
Chris
From: Larry Clapp
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <slrnf7jv0j.ou5.larry@theclapp.ddts.net>
On 2007-06-21, Khookie <··········@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 21, 6:22 am, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>>
>> :-)
>
> So what did it actually say? The link was down.
Basically a Lisp-curious kid (19-year-old) has a bad experience on
#lisp (the IRC channel), says no wonder our community is so small, and
abandons Lisp (the language).
[ Disclaimer: I didn't read his #lisp logs. ]
#lisp, it seems to me, is *user*-friendly, but not especially
*beginner*-friendly.
I suppose we shouldn't point him to Erik.
-- L
From: fireblade
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182410169.368348.102330@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 21, 6:18 am, Larry Clapp <····@theclapp.org> wrote:
> On 2007-06-21, Khookie <··········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 21, 6:22 am, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> >> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> >> :-)
>
> > So what did it actually say? The link was down.
>
> Basically a Lisp-curious kid (19-year-old) has a bad experience on
> #lisp (the IRC channel), says no wonder our community is so small, and
> abandons Lisp (the language).
>
> [ Disclaimer: I didn't read his #lisp logs. ]
>
> #lisp, it seems to me, is *user*-friendly, but not especially
> *beginner*-friendly.
>
> I suppose we shouldn't point him to Erik.
>
> -- L
I like his past posts.
Slobodan Blazeski
My apologies to those who like Java, C#, PHP, Delphi, Visual Basic,
Perl, Python, Ruby, COBOL,F#,Ocaml or any other language. I know you
think you
know a better language than lisp. All I can say is I do, too!
From: Pascal Bourguignon
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <87ps3pq3lc.fsf@thalassa.lan.informatimago.com>
Larry Clapp <·····@theclapp.org> writes:
> On 2007-06-21, Khookie <··········@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 6:22 am, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>>> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> So what did it actually say? The link was down.
>
> Basically a Lisp-curious kid (19-year-old) has a bad experience on
> #lisp (the IRC channel), says no wonder our community is so small, and
> abandons Lisp (the language).
>
> [ Disclaimer: I didn't read his #lisp logs. ]
>
> #lisp, it seems to me, is *user*-friendly, but not especially
> *beginner*-friendly.
>
> I suppose we shouldn't point him to Erik.
So here is a good what if. What if you had VC money to offer
lollypops to all 19-yo lisp-curious kids?
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
NOTE: The most fundamental particles in this product are held
together by a "gluing" force about which little is currently known
and whose adhesive power can therefore not be permanently
guaranteed.
(message (Hello 'Larry)
(you :wrote :on '(Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:18:27 -0400))
(
LC> [ Disclaimer: I didn't read his #lisp logs. ]
LC> #lisp, it seems to me, is *user*-friendly, but not especially
LC> *beginner*-friendly.
reading logs from his page, it appears he came knowing very little asking
for advanced thing.
he was asking about how to do a "package", or system in our terminology.
but he didn't know even language basics -- he had to be explained what the
hell the PACKAGE in lisp is (he was calling it "namespace").
so, actually people there were quite *beginner*-friendly, but certainly it's
not possible to teach a language via IRC, person has to do something
himself. so #lisp is just not impatient-kid-friendly, which is ok.
i think one needs to create a "library" only when he's enough proficient in
the language and has something to show. by this time, person typically uses
enough other people libraries, and sometimes, out of curiosity, he can take
a look at *.asd files, package.lisp etc.
so, when he'll need to create a "library", he'll already know how to do this
and where to look for an example. so this question should not arise if one
does his learning in a proper way.
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"I am everything you want and I am everything you need")
On 21 Jun, 09:42, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> reading logs from his page, it appears he came knowing very little asking
> for advanced thing.
> he was asking about how to do a "package", or system in our terminology.
> but he didn't know even language basics -- he had to be explained what the
I agree with what you're saying here Alex but the one point I would
make is that when learning a new programming language, especially when
coming from another, it is important to know that you will be able do
certain things. For example, when I started to learn Lisp I wanted to
make sure that in the future I would be able to interface with the OS,
use some form of concurrency and package my code in a useful way.
That didn't mean I wanted to use cffi, bordeaux-threads and asdf in my
first program as they are 'advanced' topics but I did want to know
that they would be available to me at some point in the future or I'd
be wasting my time working through cons, lambda and eval.
Having said that, anyone with a few hours and a web browser can find
out that Common Lisp can do all of these things. And as we all know
from reading c.l.l, it's rude to get someone else to do your homework
for you :-)
Phil
http://phil.nullable.eu/
From: Holger Schauer
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old
Date:
Message-ID: <yxzk5txejef.fsf@gmx.de>
On 5041 September 1993, Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> reading logs from his page, it appears he came knowing very little
> asking for advanced thing. he was asking about how to do a
> "package", or system in our terminology. but he didn't know even
> language basics -- he had to be explained what the hell the PACKAGE
> in lisp is (he was calling it "namespace").
I sense two people being confused: the kid not knowing about systems,
packages and namespaces and you for not recognizing that these issues
are absolutely basic and not advanced at all. That somebody new to a
language has a grasp of the issue of 'separation of concerns' is a
good thing.
> i think one needs to create a "library" only when he's enough
> proficient in the language and has something to show.
Separating your code in packages and systems has nothing to do
with showing off the code.
> by this time, person typically uses enough other people libraries,
> and sometimes, out of curiosity, he can take a look at *.asd files,
> package.lisp etc.
Funny enough, most lisp systems I've seen didn't make much use of
other people's libraries and if so, these often provided base level
functionality hidden under a lot of system specific stuff.
> so, when he'll need to create a "library", he'll already know how to do this
> and where to look for an example. so this question should not arise if one
> does his learning in a proper way.
What your proposing is known in other contexts as a "hermeneutic
circle": if he's has learned how to create a library, he'll know how
to do it anyway. This offers no hint for learning to create a library
in the first place.
Holger
--
--- http://hillview.bugwriter.net/ ---
"Den K�rper verspannt, m�glichst durch Tabak und Bier vergiftet, so unkt
es sich am sch�nsten."
-- Henning Harnisch, taz 22.6.2000, zum EM-Aus
(message (Hello 'Holger)
(you :wrote :on '(Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:39:20 +0200))
(
HS> I sense two people being confused: the kid not knowing about systems,
HS> packages and namespaces and you for not recognizing that these issues
HS> are absolutely basic and not advanced at all. That somebody new to a
HS> language has a grasp of the issue of 'separation of concerns' is a
HS> good thing.
but the reality is that actually there is not real need to create any
pacackages and systems.
yes, i know some coding standards enforce this as a good style.
once i've asked here how frequently people here do create packages. most
people said they have one package for application! they mentioned that it
actually makes sense only for "libraries" that are shared among multiple
projects.
as for systems, i have a good example for you. recently i've downloaded code
of NFS server for Windows written in Allegro CL by Franz. they actually sell
this software (although i'm not sure that exact version) to many customers
(including major companies), and those are quite happy.
if you'll look at code, it look like a complete mess for you. no package was
defined, it all goes into :USER.
and no system definition is present -- they have loadem.lisp file, with
function loadem:
(defun loadem ()
(dolist (file *filelist*)
(compile-file-if-needed (concatenate 'string file ".cl"))
(load file)))
so, this is open source software released by largest Lisp vendor on their
site, and it doesn't use packages and systems.
yes, code base ain't that big -- only some 100KB, but it's not trivial
either -- NFS is quite complex thing, build on top of SUNRPC, that uses
XDR..
so, if they don't need and systems or packages for building commercial
software (to some extent, certainly -- it's quite possible that version they
sell now is larger and more structured), why do Lisp newbies need them?
??>> i think one needs to create a "library" only when he's enough
??>> proficient in the language and has something to show.
HS> Separating your code in packages and systems has nothing to do
HS> with showing off the code.
but you have to have some code before you need to separate it, how do you
think?
??>> by this time, person typically uses enough other people libraries,
??>> and sometimes, out of curiosity, he can take a look at *.asd files,
??>> package.lisp etc.
HS> Funny enough, most lisp systems I've seen didn't make much use of
HS> other people's libraries and if so, these often provided base level
HS> functionality hidden under a lot of system specific stuff.
i do not know what have you seen (possibly those were large self-contained
systems), but i don't think nowadays lisp beginer will do much
experimentations before he encouters that he needs 3rd-party library. regex,
sockets, HTTP serving, SQL, OpenGL, GUI -- most of these is typically
available as 3rd-party software, and most beginers will like to see more
practical things like this, but not bare MAPCARs.
??>> so, when he'll need to create a "library", he'll already know how to
??>> do this and where to look for an example. so this question should not
??>> arise if one does his learning in a proper way.
HS> What your proposing is known in other contexts as a "hermeneutic
HS> circle": if he's has learned how to create a library, he'll know how
HS> to do it anyway. This offers no hint for learning to create a library
HS> in the first place.
what i'm proposing is doing simple things first. when time will come for
advanced things, it would be much easier to master them having a good basis.
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"I am everything you want and I am everything you need")
From: Holger Schauer
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old
Date:
Message-ID: <yxzhcp1e9qf.fsf@gmx.de>
On 5041 September 1993, Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> but the reality is that actually there is not real need to create any
> pacackages and systems.
Well, sure, you can also stick with cons instead of using list,
regardless whether it would be better practice.
> once i've asked here how frequently people here do create packages. most
> people said they have one package for application! they mentioned that it
> actually makes sense only for "libraries" that are shared among multiple
> projects.
I disagree, but other peoples mileage obviously varies.
> so, if they don't need and systems or packages for building commercial
> software (to some extent, certainly -- it's quite possible that version they
> sell now is larger and more structured), why do Lisp newbies need them?
I don't know if Franz has the role of the developer or solely as the
distributor of the software. I hope honestly for them that it's only
the latter.
> HS> What your proposing is known in other contexts as a "hermeneutic
> HS> circle": if he's has learned how to create a library, he'll know how
> HS> to do it anyway. This offers no hint for learning to create a library
> HS> in the first place.
> what i'm proposing is doing simple things first. when time will come for
> advanced things, it would be much easier to master them having a good basis.
But the issue of symbols and packages is not advanced, it's a *very*
fundamental issue of Common Lisp. Yes, you probably don't need to
encounter this particular issue when you're starting, but this depends
on what you're aiming for.
Actually, I don't see how your imaginary newbie could start using
third-party libraries at all without some basic understanding of
packages (and systems, probably). Loading code (and hence knowing
about *what* to load) is quite a fundamental issue, no?
Holger
--
--- http://hillview.bugwriter.net/ ---
"Den K�rper verspannt, m�glichst durch Tabak und Bier vergiftet, so unkt
es sich am sch�nsten."
-- Henning Harnisch, taz 22.6.2000, zum EM-Aus
On Jun 21, 3:08 pm, Holger Schauer <··············@gmx.de> wrote:
> On 5041 September 1993, Alex Mizrahi wrote:
>
> > but the reality is that actually there is not real need to create any
> > pacackages and systems.
>
> Well, sure, you can also stick with cons instead of using list,
> regardless whether it would be better practice.
>
> > once i've asked here how frequently people here do create packages. most
> > people said they have one package for application! they mentioned that it
> > actually makes sense only for "libraries" that are shared among multiple
> > projects.
>
> I disagree, but other peoples mileage obviously varies.
Different package for each layer,the architecture is layered and I
have quick-n-dirty hacks, it's little bit harder upfront but result is
much cleaner and you choose what symbols to export.
So I disagree too but YMMV.
Slobodan Blazeski
On Jun 21, 4:12 pm, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 21, 3:08 pm, Holger Schauer <··············@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > On 5041 September 1993, Alex Mizrahi wrote:
>
> > > but the reality is that actually there is not real need to create any
> > > pacackages and systems.
>
> > Well, sure, you can also stick with cons instead of using list,
> > regardless whether it would be better practice.
>
> > > once i've asked here how frequently people here do create packages. most
> > > people said they have one package for application! they mentioned that it
> > > actually makes sense only for "libraries" that are shared among multiple
> > > projects.
>
> > I disagree, but other peoples mileage obviously varies.
>
> Different package for each layer,the architecture is layered and I
> have quick-n-dirty hacks, it's little bit harder upfront but result is
^^^
hate
> much cleaner and you choose what symbols to export.
> So I disagree too but YMMV.
>
> Slobodan Blazeski
From: ············@gmail.com
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182410560.616867.286150@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 20, 3:22 pm, Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> :-)
>
> --
> Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
> The OCaml Journalhttp://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_journal/?usenet
Now, that's what we call a troll. Harrop must be very bitter. Maybe
his OCaml/F# books and consulting aren't quite panning out like he
expected. For the record, I like OCaml/F#, but just don't get fanboy
about such things.
From: Stefan Scholl
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <0T46fvvaIno6Nv8%stesch@parsec.no-spoon.de>
Jon Harrop <···@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>
> http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> :-)
I don't like #lisp and I haven't used CL for a while. But you are
the one responsible for me not choosing O'Caml or F#.
So, please stop hurting the O'Caml community.
From: fireblade
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182437048.240308.61610@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 21, 10:00 am, Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de> wrote:
> Jon Harrop <····@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
>
> > http://classbug.com:3000/post/main.html
>
> > :-)
>
> I don't like #lisp and I haven't used CL for a while. But you are
> the one responsible for me not choosing O'Caml or F#.
>
> So, please stop hurting the O'Caml community.
Giving so much power to somebody is bad. You cou not choose because
it's ugly,there is no libs, no jobs, runs only on ms , ... whatever
suits you but not choosing because of someone else that's bad for
you..
Slobodan Blazeski
My apologies to those who like Java, C#, PHP, Delphi, Visual Basic,
Perl, Python, Ruby, COBOL, F#, Ocaml or any other language. I know you
think you know a better language than lisp. All I can say is I do,
too!
From: Jon Harrop
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <467af48e$0$8740$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
fireblade wrote:
> On Jun 21, 10:00 am, Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de> wrote:
>> So, please stop hurting the O'Caml community.
>
> Giving so much power to somebody is bad...
Indeed. This is a curious retort, like the form:
"Your advert put me off buying your book."
which essentially means:
"I would have bought your book if I hadn't heard about it."
Of course, all such responses get ignored. But I find them interesting none
the less...
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The OCaml Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_journal/?usenet
From: Raffael Cavallaro
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <2007062209313550073-raffaelcavallaro@pasdespamsilvousplaitmaccom>
On 2007-06-21 10:44:08 -0400, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> said:
> Giving so much power to somebody is bad. You cou not choose because
> it's ugly,there is no libs, no jobs, runs only on ms , ... whatever
> suits you but not choosing because of someone else that's bad for
> you..
Tim Bradshaw's post on this very subject in a previous thread is quite
relevant:
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/d0ce288e1cd22654/ed970f4687a9848b?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#ed970f4687a9848b>
"I'm
anticipating needing advice and so on about it, so I go and have a
look at the uathor's website and any newsgroups/mailing lists.
And lo, I discover one or more of: * The person I will likely be
contacting for support is some kind of fractious academic with chips
on all his shoulders who spends half his time being rude about the
competition * The person I will likely be contacting for support
spends his time trolling in newsgroups, possibly trying to attract
sales. * The person I will likely be contacting for support spends his
time being deliberately and needlessly offensive to people in
newsgroups. * The person I will likely be contacting for support
clearly does not know what he is talking about.
Any of these things are sufficient to put me off (and I imagine most
potential users). "
IOW Harrop may think he's helping his Ocaml/F# cause, but it's quite
possible that he's putting off as many people as he attracts, even
putting off many more than he attracts.
But I think Rainer said it best: Please Don't Feed The Trolls!
From: Tim Bradshaw
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182538215.315126.77590@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 22, 2:31 pm, Raffael Cavallaro
> Tim Bradshaw's post on this very subject in a previous thread is quite
> relevant:
>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/d0ce2...>
Just to follow up rather indirectly to myself (self publicist, me?),
I'd like to stress that the approach I described there is a *really
good technique* for deciding whether to use something if you are
interested in utility. What you want is for the people who you will
or may need to deal with to be pragmatic, rather than to try and drag
you into some kind of cult, and you also want them to not be weird
social misfits who live in a cave somewhere. What you absolutely do
not want is "you can't post articles to our support mailing list
because your robes are the wrong shade of yellow and your head is not
shaved in the correct pattern.
Unless, of course, you are, in fact, after some kind of religious
experience. I'd suggest a church rather than a bit of software in
that case, however.
From: Raffael Cavallaro
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <2007062302220237709-raffaelcavallaro@pasdespamsilvousplaitmaccom>
On 2007-06-22 14:50:15 -0400, Tim Bradshaw <··········@tfeb.org> said:
> What you want is for the people who you will
> or may need to deal with to be pragmatic, rather than to try and drag
> you into some kind of cult, and you also want them to not be weird
> social misfits who live in a cave somewhere.
Yes, this is one of the reasons I like LispWorks, OpenMCL, SBCL, ECL,
and Corman Lisp - the people supporting them seem so level headed and
helpful. Not to disparage other lisp implementations - I just don't
have sufficient experience with them - but users of Allegro and Clisp
say similar things about their support.
From: fireblade
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <1182521704.186077.162370@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
On Jun 22, 3:31 pm, Raffael Cavallaro <················@pas-d'espam-
s'il-vous-plait-mac.com> wrote:
> On 2007-06-21 10:44:08 -0400, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> said:
>
> > Giving so much power to somebody is bad. You cou not choose because
> > it's ugly,there is no libs, no jobs, runs only on ms , ... whatever
> > suits you but not choosing because of someone else that's bad for
> > you..
>
> Tim Bradshaw's post on this very subject in a previous thread is quite
> relevant:
>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/d0ce2...>
>
> "I'm
>
> anticipating needing advice and so on about it, so I go and have a
> look at the uathor's website and any newsgroups/mailing lists.
> And lo, I discover one or more of: * The person I will likely be
> contacting for support is some kind of fractious academic with chips
> on all his shoulders who spends half his time being rude about the
> competition * The person I will likely be contacting for support
> spends his time trolling in newsgroups, possibly trying to attract
> sales. * The person I will likely be contacting for support spends his
> time being deliberately and needlessly offensive to people in
> newsgroups. * The person I will likely be contacting for support
> clearly does not know what he is talking about.
> Any of these things are sufficient to put me off (and I imagine most
> potential users). "
>
> IOW Harrop may think he's helping his Ocaml/F# cause, but it's quite
> possible that he's putting off as many people as he attracts, even
> putting off many more than he attracts.
>
> But I think Rainer said it best: Please Don't Feed The Trolls!
I don't. I give them assignment, untill they solve it I don't reply
them, nor do I mention them, no matter what they say about me or lisp.
That's untill they prove that they know at least a little bit of lisp
so they deserve the answer. But I answer to those people which I don't
consider trolls in a post that interests me even if thread is started
by troll.
I will completely ignore troll Activity from now on. Will you do the
same ?
SLobodan Blazeski
From: Raffael Cavallaro
Subject: Re: The Lisp experience - 19-year old college student asks for help in #lisp, has to wait half an hour for a response; asks in #python, gets the answer in 6 minutes. Gives up on Lisp... "I'll wait for Arc, thanks."
Date:
Message-ID: <200706221123298930-raffaelcavallaro@pasdespamsilvousplaitmaccom>
On 2007-06-22 10:15:04 -0400, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> said:
>>
>> But I think Rainer said it best: Please Don't Feed The Trolls!
>
> I don't. I give them assignment, untill they solve it I don't reply
> them, nor do I mention them, no matter what they say about me or lisp.
I've noticed - nice touch. I wasn't directing the "Don't Feed The
Trolls" at you specifically - I was just agreeing with Rainer that
Harrop is a troll. Sorry if you took it as a personal admonishment.
> That's untill they prove that they know at least a little bit of lisp
> so they deserve the answer. But I answer to those people which I don't
> consider trolls in a post that interests me even if thread is started
> by troll.
> I will completely ignore troll Activity from now on. Will you do the
> same ?
I know myself too well to make absolute promises ;^)