I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
implementation have a specialty?
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:57:24 -0700, Richie <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
>
If you are used to Java, you might be familiar with the Eclipse IDE, and
thus you might feel comfortabel starting with the cusp plugin:
http://www.paragent.com/lisp/cusp/cusp.htm
Peter Seidel's book Practical Common Lisp is in my opinion a great
introduction to Lisp:
http://www.apress.com/free/content/practicalcommonlisp.pdf
There is much more information on the issue in the archives of this
group. Just search around a little, eg with Google Groups.
HTH,
Peter
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
There is another Eclipse Plugin:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dandelion-ecl
http://www.cliki.net/Dandelion
It comes with a ready to use CLISP environment.
On 14 Jun., 03:21, "Peter Hildebrandt" <······@icsi.berkeley.edu>
wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:57:24 -0700, Richie <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> > environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> > been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> > and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> > gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> > financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> > Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> > implementation have a specialty?
>
> If you are used to Java, you might be familiar with the Eclipse IDE, and
> thus you might feel comfortabel starting with the cusp plugin:
>
> http://www.paragent.com/lisp/cusp/cusp.htm
>
> Peter Seidel's book Practical Common Lisp is in my opinion a great
> introduction to Lisp:
>
> http://www.apress.com/free/content/practicalcommonlisp.pdf
>
> There is much more information on the issue in the archives of this
> group. Just search around a little, eg with Google Groups.
>
> HTH,
> Peter
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/
I would also recommend Peter Seidel's Lisp book and would also
recommend
Paul Graham's Ansi Common Lisp and once your more advanced I would
recommend OnLisp Awsome the book is now a cult his and routinely sells
for $200+ but Paul is giving away an online version for free.
I find lisp is one of those languages where you have to read a few
books to get the hang of it.
I like clisp my self and use slime as your ide http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/
On Jun 14, 5:55 am, ······@gmail.com wrote:
> There is another Eclipse Plugin:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/dandelion-eclhttp://www.cliki.net/Dandelion
>
> It comes with a ready to use CLISP environment.
>
> On 14 Jun., 03:21, "Peter Hildebrandt" <······@icsi.berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:57:24 -0700, Richie <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> > > environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> > > been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> > > and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> > > gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> > > financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> > > Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> > > implementation have a specialty?
>
> > If you are used to Java, you might be familiar with the Eclipse IDE, and
> > thus you might feel comfortabel starting with the cusp plugin:
>
> >http://www.paragent.com/lisp/cusp/cusp.htm
>
> > Peter Seidel's book Practical Common Lisp is in my opinion a great
> > introduction to Lisp:
>
> >http://www.apress.com/free/content/practicalcommonlisp.pdf
>
> > There is much more information on the issue in the archives of this
> > group. Just search around a little, eg with Google Groups.
>
> > HTH,
> > Peter
>
> > --
> > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/
On Jun 14, 11:07 pm, Richie <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> you people are great. thanks again for all this information.
No we're just pretending, you know the hook first dose is always free.
From: Dimiter "malkia" Stanev
Subject: Re: Where to start in LISP?
Date:
Message-ID: <467099F2.40308@mac.com>
You can start by trying at least three commercial lisps that have trial
versions:
www.franz.com - Allegro CL with IDE (Windows only IDE)
www.lispworks.com - Lispworks with EMACS like editor (Windows, Mac OS
X, Linux)
www.cormanlisp.com - Windows only, non-EMACS-ie.
There are also various command-line and free implementations:
clisp, sbcl, OpenMCL (Mac), ecl, and others.
To use them you can either type your code on the command-line, or use
something called LispBox: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/lispbox/
http://common-lisp.net/project/lispbox/
LispBox is basically EMACS + SLIME + LISP system.
I've bought the commercial version of LispWorks for Windows, and with
Edi Weitz Starter Pack (http://weitz.de/starter-pack/) it's really
wonderful, I'm still getting used to the EMACS bindings, so I'm also
using OpenMCL/AquaMacs on my mac iBook, and also the Personal Edition of
Lispworks there (which can't load the Edi Weitz Starter Pack automatically).
Richie wrote:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
>
Richie wrote:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
Welcome! :-D
Don't let the meanies (they'll prolly be here soon, if they haven't come
already) scare you off -- they mean well. Just imagine them as troll
repellant ;-)
First of all, LISP hasn't been spelled in all-caps for quite a while ;-)
Just write Lisp. Second, Lisp is good for a lot of things besides
AI. You can even develop web applications with it! Mostly I use it as
an extension language for my C applications.
If you prefer Common Lisp, the student/trial versions of LispWorks or
Allegro CL are quite easy to install. LispWorks has an IDE which will
probably be familiar if you're used to point-and-click stuff. The
open-source Lisps (of which there are many -- SBCL, CMUCL, OpenMCL,
Clisp, ECL for starters) are typically used in the SLIME development
environment under Emacs. SLIME is great -- it's well worth the initial
learning curve.
If you prefer Scheme, the comp.lang.scheme newsgroup can help you :-)
MIT and UC Berkeley, among other schools, teach intro programming using
Scheme via the "Wizard Book" a.k.a. SICP (Structure and Interpretation
of Computer Programs). There is a student-oriented Scheme IDE called
DrScheme which is used for teaching Scheme.
I like Common Lisp macros better than Scheme macros, and I use macros a
lot (I think most CL coders do). This is a plus for CL in my book.
However, Scheme is a much more minimalist language. It may be useful if
you are interested in embedded applications.
Best wishes!
mfh
Richie wrote:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
Welcome! :-D
Don't let the meanies (they'll prolly be here soon, if they haven't come
already) scare you off -- they mean well. Just imagine them as troll
repellant ;-)
First of all, LISP hasn't been spelled in all-caps for quite a while ;-)
Just write Lisp. Second, Lisp is good for a lot of things besides
AI. You can even develop web applications with it! Mostly I use it as
an extension language for my C applications.
If you prefer Common Lisp, the student/trial versions of LispWorks or
Allegro CL are quite easy to install. LispWorks has an IDE which will
probably be familiar if you're used to point-and-click stuff. The
open-source Lisps (of which there are many -- SBCL, CMUCL, OpenMCL,
Clisp, ECL for starters) are typically used in the SLIME development
environment under Emacs. SLIME is great -- it's well worth the initial
learning curve.
If you prefer Scheme, the comp.lang.scheme newsgroup can help you :-)
MIT and UC Berkeley, among other schools, teach intro programming using
Scheme via the "Wizard Book" a.k.a. SICP (Structure and Interpretation
of Computer Programs). There is a student-oriented Scheme IDE called
DrScheme which is used for teaching Scheme.
I like Common Lisp macros better than Scheme macros, and I use macros a
lot (I think most CL coders do). This is a plus for CL in my book.
However, Scheme is a much more minimalist language. It may be useful if
you are interested in embedded applications.
Best wishes!
mfh
On Jun 14, 2:57 am, Richie <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
We don't do any AI since the AI winter in whenever that was. We use
lisp only for web applications, accounting software and other real
staff.
>There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start?
Get yourself a good book about lisp, then learn ai.
Just search google group for tip about either and other posters
already give you idea.
> Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
If you stick to the standard common lisp which you probably do since
you're beginner just choose whichever fits for you .
Some vendors (in alphabetical order)
Corman (only windows)
Franz
Lispworks
Scieneer (only linux)
Some free implementations:
Clisp
CMUCL
ECL
OpenMCL
SBCL
If you tell us what platform you prefer win,linux etc you'll probably
get a more specific advice.
Slobodan Blazeski
On Jun 14, 1:04 pm, Richie <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> i am using windows XP Pro platform.
>
> Thanks all for the information. if you have more information, please
> keep it coming.
If you like slower pace try gentle introduction to symbolic
computation. Printed is hard to find but there's free pdf at authors
site .
Fast going Paul Graham Ansi Common Lisp.
If you just want to go directly to practical staff, Practical Common
Lisp from Seibel.
On Lisp is excellent tutorial for macros.
I can't recommend anything for AI , probably Norvigs PAIP & AI modern
approach (wuth Rassel) , Kanemoto also looked interesthing but I
haven't try them.
On 14 Jun, 08:55, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We don't do any AI since the AI winter in whenever that was. We use
> lisp only for web applications, accounting software and other real
> staff.
That's just what we want you to think till the robots take over.
Seriously, AI didn't go away, it took a serious kicking, rid itself of
some of it's old baggage (some good,some bad)* and re-branded itself
as machine learning.
*Disclaimer I wasn't around for the AI winter, so I don't know quite
how much cool stuff was thrown out then.
On Jun 14, 2:22 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 14 Jun, 08:55, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We don't do any AI since the AI winter in whenever that was. We use
> > lisp only for web applications, accounting software and other real
> > staff.
>
> That's just what we want you to think till the robots take over.
>
And that will be ? Insert year____
> Seriously, AI didn't go away, it took a serious kicking, rid itself of
> some of it's old baggage (some good,some bad)* and re-branded itself
> as machine learning.
Data mining perhaps. It's all written in Java.
>
> *Disclaimer I wasn't around for the AI winter, so I don't know quite
> how much cool stuff was thrown out then.
Yesterday I've read Richard P. Gabriels Patterns of software so got
some idea about those *fabolous* times. Actually till yesterday I
didn't know that he started Lucid.All I've knew about him is the
essey "Worse is better."
On 15 Jun, 08:41, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 2:22 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
> wrote:> On 14 Jun, 08:55, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > We don't do any AI since the AI winter in whenever that was. We use
> > > lisp only for web applications, accounting software and other real
> > > staff.
>
> > That's just what we want you to think till the robots take over.
>
> And that will be ? Insert year____
Oh, you'll find out.....
>
> > Seriously, AI didn't go away, it took a serious kicking, rid itself of
> > some of it's old baggage (some good,some bad)* and re-branded itself
> > as machine learning.
>
> Data mining perhaps. It's all written in Java.
Meh, I'm not sure I'd count data mining as machine learning, but I
suppose the more sophisticated of it must be.
The computer vision used in scene understanding, generating 3-d models
from still images or self-parking cars might be better examples.
On Jun 16, 6:29 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 15 Jun, 08:41, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:> On Jun 14, 2:22 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
> > wrote:> On 14 Jun, 08:55, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > We don't do any AI since the AI winter in whenever that was. We use
> > > > lisp only for web applications, accounting software and other real
> > > > staff.
>
> > > That's just what we want you to think till the robots take over.
>
> > And that will be ? Insert year____
>
> Oh, you'll find out.....
Hope so
>
> > > Seriously, AI didn't go away, it took a serious kicking, rid itself of
> > > some of it's old baggage (some good,some bad)* and re-branded itself
> > > as machine learning.
>
> > Data mining perhaps. It's all written in Java.
>
> Meh, I'm not sure I'd count data mining as machine learning, but I
> suppose the more sophisticated of it must be.
Clustering,rules generarting expert systems, pattern matching, fuzzy-
logic, genetic algorithms .. anything of those sounds familiar ? All
of those comes even in a free for learning purposes application like
WEKA.
> The computer vision used in scene understanding, generating 3-d models
> from still images or self-parking cars might be better examples.
I'm too lazy to search but I'll bet again on Java for all of above.
> > > > Seriously, AI didn't go away, it took a serious kicking, rid itself of
> > > > some of it's old baggage (some good,some bad)* and re-branded itself
> > > > as machine learning.
>
> > > Data mining perhaps. It's all written in Java.
>
> > Meh, I'm not sure I'd count data mining as machine learning, but I
> > suppose the more sophisticated of it must be.
>
> Clustering,rules generarting expert systems, pattern matching, fuzzy-
> logic, genetic algorithms .. anything of those sounds familiar ?
Yes, but its somewhat disorientating. I've no idea why you're
classifying pattern matching and the vast majority of clustering as
AI, and I assumed that fuzzy logic and expert systems were dead and
gone.
>
> > The computer vision used in scene understanding, generating 3-d models
> > from still images or self-parking cars might be better examples.
>
> I'm too lazy to search but I'll bet again on Java for all of above.
Largely matlab and c[++] when people care about speed or hate matlab.
On Jun 18, 12:05 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > Seriously, AI didn't go away, it took a serious kicking, rid itself of
> > > > > some of it's old baggage (some good,some bad)* and re-branded itself
> > > > > as machine learning.
>
> > > > Data mining perhaps. It's all written in Java.
>
> > > Meh, I'm not sure I'd count data mining as machine learning, but I
> > > suppose the more sophisticated of it must be.
>
> > Clustering,rules generarting expert systems, pattern matching, fuzzy-
> > logic, genetic algorithms .. anything of those sounds familiar ?
>
> Yes, but its somewhat disorientating. I've no idea why you're
> classifying pattern matching and the vast majority of clustering as
> AI,
Yes those might be left out.
>and I assumed that fuzzy logic and expert systems were dead and gone.
>
Obviously not, there's big money involved.
>
> > > The computer vision used in scene understanding, generating 3-d models
> > > from still images or self-parking cars might be better examples.
>
> > I'm too lazy to search but I'll bet again on Java for all of above.
>
> Largely matlab and c[++] when people care about speed or hate matlab.
SPSS (2nd anfter SAS) has Python scripting built in. I wonder what's
Gauss written in?
Slobodan Blazeski
On 18 Jun, 12:46, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 18, 12:05 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
> >and I assumed that fuzzy logic and expert systems were dead and gone.
>
> Obviously not, there's big money involved.
>
Cool, what are they being used for?
On Jun 18, 3:24 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 18 Jun, 12:46, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 18, 12:05 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
> > >and I assumed that fuzzy logic and expert systems were dead and gone.
>
> > Obviously not, there's big money involved.
>
> Cool, what are they being used for?
Discovery of patterns hidden in large databases(warehouses).
Did I mentioned neural networks? No ? Those too.
Here's the way it goes:
1. (Naive) Bayesian first
2. Clustering second
3. Fuzzy logic third
4. Neural networks fourth.(hardest patterns to use)
There is also genetic algorithms used but they are more of a hm search
techniques.
Slobodan Blazeski
Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com> writes:
> On 18 Jun, 12:46, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 18, 12:05 pm, Chris Russell <·····················@gmail.com>
>
>> >and I assumed that fuzzy logic and expert systems were dead and gone.
>>
>> Obviously not, there's big money involved.
>>
> Cool, what are they being used for?
As for expert systems, my understanding is that they've gone
mainstream in some areas, such as tax planning, which seems like a
natural match. (I think I learned this tidbit a few years ago during
a conversation with Ed Feigenbaum, who's in a position to know this
sort of thing.)
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:55:51 -0700, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> Scieneer (only linux)
It's also available for Solaris and HP/UX.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
On Jun 14, 2:07 pm, Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:55:51 -0700, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Scieneer (only linux)
>
> It's also available for Solaris and HP/UX.
>
> --
>
> Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
>
> Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Does hunchentoot runs on scieneer ?
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:35:43 -0700, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does hunchentoot runs on scieneer ?
I'd be surprised if it did, because there's no support code for
Scieneer CL in Hunchentoot's code base yet (patches welcome, of
course) and I don't have a copy of Scieneer CL to port it myself.
Also, Scieneer CL has integrated HTTP support, so it would probably be
worthwhile to let Scieneer CL do some of the work Hunchentoot does on
other Lisps.
Anyway, if you're interested, you should contact them. They have
ported a lot of open source Lisp libraries to their Lisp (in fact,
Douglas Crosher just sent patches for CXML the other day) and I'm sure
they'd be happy to port others as well if there's customer demand.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
On Jun 15, 9:58 am, Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:35:43 -0700, fireblade <·················@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Does hunchentoot runs on scieneer ?
>
> I'd be surprised if it did, because there's no support code for
> Scieneer CL in Hunchentoot's code base yet (patches welcome, of
> course) and I don't have a copy of Scieneer CL to port it myself.
>
> Also, Scieneer CL has integrated HTTP support, so it would probably be
> worthwhile to let Scieneer CL do some of the work Hunchentoot does on
> other Lisps.
>
> Anyway, if you're interested, you should contact them. They have
> ported a lot of open source Lisp libraries to their Lisp (in fact,
> Douglas Crosher just sent patches for CXML the other day) and I'm sure
> they'd be happy to port others as well if there's customer demand.
>
> --
>
> Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
>
> Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Currently I'm developing on windows only (ok sometimes I try it on
Ubuntu too), but I would be happier with a linux box if there will be
someone to administer it, currently our servers are windows only.
Scieneer is in budget also and supports SMP so it would be
interesthing how it compares with lw.
Slobodan Blazeski
Richie <············@gmail.com> writes:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
Have a look at AIMA and PAIP:
Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach,
http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu
Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp
http://www.cliki.net/PAIP
both by Peter Norvig.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
NOTE: The most fundamental particles in this product are held
together by a "gluing" force about which little is currently known
and whose adhesive power can therefore not be permanently
guaranteed.
Richie wrote:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming by Peter Norvig is a
great book for learning both classic AI techniques and Common Lisp at
the same time.
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Richie wrote:
> I am a java programmer and I work in a rapid application development
> environment at work. I am new to LISP and I am lost (because i have
> been using limelight mainstream languages like java). I want to learn
> and use LISP to develop AIs. Maybe, start with a simple game AI and
> gradually advancing towards scientific or medical AIs and then to
> financial AIs. There are several implementations or flavors of LISP.
> Where do I start? Which ones used the most? or Does each
> implementation have a specialty?
Absolutely. The Lisp family of languages are excellent:
http://www.levenez.com/lang/history.html#05
You may wish to learn some of the modern, statically-typed Lisp variants
that have been developed over the past 30 years such as OCaml, Haskell and
F#. These are the flagship languages of the Lisp family.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The OCaml Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_journal/?usenet
Jon Harrop wrote:
> Absolutely. The Lisp family of languages are excellent:
>
> http://www.levenez.com/lang/history.html#05
>
> You may wish to learn some of the modern, statically-typed Lisp variants
> that have been developed over the past 30 years such as OCaml, Haskell and
> F#. These are the flagship languages of the Lisp family.
I think most people would disagree to call OCaml, Haskell and F# a Lisp
variant. Even the diagram you quoted doesn't has a connection between Lisp,
which was invented 1958, and any of the languages you mentioned. And they
are not developed over the past 30 years, because as you can see in the
diagram, the first OCaml version was released 1996, the first Haskell
version 1987 and F# is based on OCaml (but the predecessor of your
functional languages, ML, was developed 1973).
For the OP: Today there are only 2 often used flavors of Lisp-like
languages: Common Lisp and Scheme. You should play with both some days to
see which one you like more. For Scheme I recommend DrScheme (
http://www.plt-scheme.org/software/drscheme/ ) and for Lisp one of the
trial versions of the commercial Lisp implementations from Allegro or
LispWorks, or http://www.gigamonkeys.com/lispbox/ , if you don't mind
Emacs.
--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
In article <·······························@40tude.net>,
Frank Buss <··@frank-buss.de> wrote:
> Jon Harrop wrote:
>
> > Absolutely. The Lisp family of languages are excellent:
> >
> > http://www.levenez.com/lang/history.html#05
> >
> > You may wish to learn some of the modern, statically-typed Lisp variants
> > that have been developed over the past 30 years such as OCaml, Haskell and
> > F#. These are the flagship languages of the Lisp family.
>
> I think most people would disagree to call OCaml, Haskell and F# a Lisp
> variant. Even the diagram you quoted doesn't has a connection between Lisp,
> which was invented 1958, and any of the languages you mentioned. And they
> are not developed over the past 30 years, because as you can see in the
> diagram, the first OCaml version was released 1996, the first Haskell
> version 1987 and F# is based on OCaml (but the predecessor of your
> functional languages, ML, was developed 1973).
>
> For the OP: Today there are only 2 often used flavors of Lisp-like
> languages: Common Lisp and Scheme. You should play with both some days to
> see which one you like more. For Scheme I recommend DrScheme (
> http://www.plt-scheme.org/software/drscheme/ ) and for Lisp one of the
> trial versions of the commercial Lisp implementations from Allegro or
> LispWorks, or http://www.gigamonkeys.com/lispbox/ , if you don't mind
> Emacs.
Frank, if you haven't got it already, Jon Harrop is troll and
spammer and there is no point in discussing his posts.
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
Rainer Joswig wrote:
> In article <·······························@40tude.net>,
> Frank Buss <··@frank-buss.de> wrote:
>
>
>>Jon Harrop wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Absolutely. The Lisp family of languages are excellent:
>>>
>>> http://www.levenez.com/lang/history.html#05
>>>
>>>You may wish to learn some of the modern, statically-typed Lisp variants
>>>that have been developed over the past 30 years such as OCaml, Haskell and
>>>F#. These are the flagship languages of the Lisp family.
>>
>>I think most people would disagree to call OCaml, Haskell and F# a Lisp
>>variant. Even the diagram you quoted doesn't has a connection between Lisp,
>>which was invented 1958, and any of the languages you mentioned. And they
>>are not developed over the past 30 years, because as you can see in the
>>diagram, the first OCaml version was released 1996, the first Haskell
>>version 1987 and F# is based on OCaml (but the predecessor of your
>>functional languages, ML, was developed 1973).
>>
>>For the OP: Today there are only 2 often used flavors of Lisp-like
>>languages: Common Lisp and Scheme. You should play with both some days to
>>see which one you like more. For Scheme I recommend DrScheme (
>>http://www.plt-scheme.org/software/drscheme/ ) and for Lisp one of the
>>trial versions of the commercial Lisp implementations from Allegro or
>>LispWorks, or http://www.gigamonkeys.com/lispbox/ , if you don't mind
>>Emacs.
>
>
> Frank, if you haven't got it already, Jon Harrop is troll and
> spammer and there is no point in discussing his posts.
>
Frank, that is Rainer's nice way of calling you a moron.
:)
hth,kzo
Thanks all for the information. So far, i am going through the
practical common lisp, ansii common lisp books and that online book -
gentle introduction to symbolic computation.
My beautiful programmer friend, she is tempting me try to drscheme. :p
she teachs programming.
All I can say is I am still new to Lisp and will try and experiment
all or most Lisps, dialects, Lisp-likes,...,etc before I can say what
is good or bad to use. so keeping information coming.
thanks