Hi,
I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
Can I use kpax with Lisp in a box on windows? If not, what is the
fastest route for web development on windows?
Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what I've
seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web frameworks, if
any, can I run with this setup?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Eyal
Eyal schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
>
> Can I use kpax with Lisp in a box on windows? If not, what is the
> fastest route for web development on windows?
>
> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what I've
> seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web frameworks, if
> any, can I run with this setup?
One free solution that you can use after you booted MS Windows:
Running Linux unter QEMU: http://www.qemu.org/
There you can use for example sbcl and cmucl.
Later your project is likely to run anyway under a Linux server,
so you can develop on such a system from the beginning.
A not so free solution anymore (in the sense of low costs) would be
to get a server from Hetzner: http://www.hetzner.de/rootserver_en.html
At the moment their cheapest server is 39 Euro per month.
But you can check their site from time to time, they often have offers
for 19 Euro.
This 39-thingy is a dedicated AMD Athlon 64 3700+ with one Gig.
You can install the Lisp you want, with a minimal Debian, without
lame things like Apache, Mysql or PHP ;-)
Andr�
--
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:44:43 +0100, André Thieme wrote:
> Eyal schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
>>
>> Can I use kpax with Lisp in a box on windows? If not, what is the
>> fastest route for web development on windows?
>>
>> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what I've
>> seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web frameworks, if
>> any, can I run with this setup?
>
> One free solution that you can use after you booted MS Windows:
>
> Running Linux unter QEMU: http://www.qemu.org/
VMware Player might also be suitable:
http://www.vmware.com/products/player/
Use this site to create a .vmx-file: http://www.easyvmx.com/ ..
then double-click on the .vmx-file with a Linux-install-CD(#1) in your
CDROM drive and it'll install onto the virtual machine that runs under
Windows.
This should leave you with more frameworks to pick from.
#1: Ubuntu is great: http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.10/ (Server install CD)
--
Lars Rune Nøstdal
http://nostdal.org/
Andr� Thieme wrote:
> Eyal schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
>>
>> Can I use kpax with Lisp in a box on windows? If not, what is the
>> fastest route for web development on windows?
>>
>> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what I've
>> seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web frameworks, if
>> any, can I run with this setup?
>
> One free solution that you can use after you booted MS Windows:
>
> Running Linux unter QEMU: http://www.qemu.org/
> There you can use for example sbcl and cmucl.
> Later your project is likely to run anyway under a Linux server,
> so you can develop on such a system from the beginning.
>
> A not so free solution anymore (in the sense of low costs) would be
> to get a server from Hetzner: http://www.hetzner.de/rootserver_en.html
> At the moment their cheapest server is 39 Euro per month.
> But you can check their site from time to time, they often have offers
> for 19 Euro.
> This 39-thingy is a dedicated AMD Athlon 64 3700+ with one Gig.
> You can install the Lisp you want, with a minimal Debian, without
> lame things like Apache, Mysql or PHP ;-)
>
>
> Andr�
Hi,
Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have a problem with using linux. I
use it at work every day ( & love it ). However, I'm using my home
computer for and I can't install linux on it ( my wife also uses it ).
I was just wandering what LISP web solutions are available for MS
windows. I can also use cygwin.
All I want to know is what is the fastest way for me to get something
running.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Eyal.
Eyal schrieb:
> Andr� Thieme wrote:
>> Eyal schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
>>>
>>> Can I use kpax with Lisp in a box on windows? If not, what is the
>>> fastest route for web development on windows?
>>>
>>> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what I've
>>> seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web frameworks,
>>> if any, can I run with this setup?
>>
>> One free solution that you can use after you booted MS Windows:
>>
>> Running Linux unter QEMU: http://www.qemu.org/
>> There you can use for example sbcl and cmucl.
>> Later your project is likely to run anyway under a Linux server,
>> so you can develop on such a system from the beginning.
>>
>> A not so free solution anymore (in the sense of low costs) would be
>> to get a server from Hetzner: http://www.hetzner.de/rootserver_en.html
>> At the moment their cheapest server is 39 Euro per month.
>> But you can check their site from time to time, they often have offers
>> for 19 Euro.
>> This 39-thingy is a dedicated AMD Athlon 64 3700+ with one Gig.
>> You can install the Lisp you want, with a minimal Debian, without
>> lame things like Apache, Mysql or PHP ;-)
>>
>>
>> Andr�
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have a problem with using linux. I
> use it at work every day ( & love it ). However, I'm using my home
> computer for and I can't install linux on it ( my wife also uses it ).
>
> I was just wandering what LISP web solutions are available for MS
> windows. I can also use cygwin.
>
> All I want to know is what is the fastest way for me to get something
> running.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
See, if you visit the links I provided you see that you don't need to
delete Windows. Your wife would not even need to know that Linux is
installed. With virtualization software Linux can be installed under
Windows. You run both systems at the same time!
By pressing some keys you switch between the OS. So you can run
Linux and a webserver, say, Portable AllegroServe, and use your
browser under Windows to test the site with IE.
So if you have some free space on your disk...
Under Windows you could use Lispworks, Allegro, CLisp and Corman Lisp.
But Lispworks and Allegro cost money.. and so they are not what most
interested people are looking for to learn Lisp.
As soon you have a product these Lisps are free - your customers will
pay them for you. So learning under Linux could be easier for some
people.
Or get a shell account to which you can connect with Putty (ssh).
Will cost around 5 Euro per month and offers you webprogramming over
the web.
Andr�
--
[I usually don't respond to this kind of posting, because usually the
questin of what constitutes "free" is questionable. But this one is
blatant]
Andr� Thieme <······························@justmail.de> writes:
>>> Eyal schrieb:
>>>> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
>>>> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what
>>>> I've seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web
>>>> frameworks, if any, can I run with this setup?
> Under Windows you could use Lispworks, Allegro, CLisp and Corman Lisp.
True.
> But Lispworks and Allegro cost money.. and so they are not what most
> interested people are looking for to learn Lisp.
This is absolutely false. In fact, we have hundreds of downloads of
our _free_ Express Edition every month for precisely this purpose.
And I believe that Lispworks has the same kind of arrangement.
See
http://www.franz.com/downloads/#AllegroCL_Download
> As soon you have a product these Lisps are free - your customers will
> pay them for you. So learning under Linux could be easier for some
> people.
Perhaps you meant here that the commercial lisps pay for themselves
once customers are found for the OPs product. That is true, but has
nothing to do with having to pay any money at all for a free version
of either lisp for learning purposes.
--
Duane Rettig ·····@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
I have to agree with Duane, if you are trying to learn lisp and want
to do a non commercial "web solution" on Windows then either Allegro
or Lispworks are BY FAR your best solution.
They are both very easy to use and have documentation that is far more
comprehensive than the open source solutions that I have tried.
The Franz site has great tutorials that cover web development as well.
Using Allegro or Lispworks will allow you to use your valuable time to
learn lisp rather than putz with and tweek your environment.
On Feb 22, 2:43 am, Duane Rettig <····@franz.com> wrote:
> [I usually don't respond to this kind of posting, because usually the
> questin of what constitutes "free" is questionable. But this one is
> blatant]
>
> André Thieme <······························@justmail.de> writes:
> >>> Eyal schrieb:
> >>>> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
> >>>> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what
> >>>> I've seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web
> >>>> frameworks, if any, can I run with this setup?
> > Under Windows you could use Lispworks, Allegro, CLisp and Corman Lisp.
>
> True.
>
> > But Lispworks and Allegro cost money.. and so they are not what most
> > interested people are looking for to learn Lisp.
>
> This is absolutely false. In fact, we have hundreds of downloads of
> our _free_ Express Edition every month for precisely this purpose.
> And I believe that Lispworks has the same kind of arrangement.
>
> See
>
> http://www.franz.com/downloads/#AllegroCL_Download
>
> > As soon you have a product these Lisps are free - your customers will
> > pay them for you. So learning under Linux could be easier for some
> > people.
>
> Perhaps you meant here that the commercial lisps pay for themselves
> once customers are found for the OPs product. That is true, but has
> nothing to do with having to pay any money at all for a free version
> of either lisp for learning purposes.
>
> --
> Duane Rettig ····@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
> 555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
> Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
Duane Rettig wrote:
> [I usually don't respond to this kind of posting, because usually the
> questin of what constitutes "free" is questionable. But this one is
> blatant]
>
> Andr� Thieme <······························@justmail.de> writes:
>
>>>> Eyal schrieb:
>
>>>>> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
>
>>>>> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what
>>>>> I've seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web
>>>>> frameworks, if any, can I run with this setup?
>
>> Under Windows you could use Lispworks, Allegro, CLisp and Corman Lisp.
>
> True.
>
>> But Lispworks and Allegro cost money.. and so they are not what most
>> interested people are looking for to learn Lisp.
>
> This is absolutely false. In fact, we have hundreds of downloads of
> our _free_ Express Edition every month for precisely this purpose.
> And I believe that Lispworks has the same kind of arrangement.
>
> See
>
> http://www.franz.com/downloads/#AllegroCL_Download
>
>> As soon you have a product these Lisps are free - your customers will
>> pay them for you. So learning under Linux could be easier for some
>> people.
>
> Perhaps you meant here that the commercial lisps pay for themselves
> once customers are found for the OPs product. That is true, but has
> nothing to do with having to pay any money at all for a free version
> of either lisp for learning purposes.
>
Ok. You are correct. I'm going to try either LispWorks or ACL for now.
I guess I'm still trying to adjust to the fact that there are many
implementations available.
I'm used to C, C++, TCL, Java, and ruby which usually have one main
runtime distribution.
So let me ask a different question - at the end, what are the common
deployment options?
How do they compare?
I'm trying to get the bigger picture of the components that are involved.
Thanks in advance,
Eyal.
Duane Rettig schrieb:
> [I usually don't respond to this kind of posting, because usually the
> questin of what constitutes "free" is questionable. But this one is
> blatant]
>
> Andr� Thieme <······························@justmail.de> writes:
>
>>>> Eyal schrieb:
>
>>>>> I'm trying to learn lisp by doing a practical web project.
>
>>>>> Right now, I'd like to stick to free solutions, which, from what
>>>>> I've seen leaves me with Lisp in a box + clisp. So, what web
>>>>> frameworks, if any, can I run with this setup?
>
>> Under Windows you could use Lispworks, Allegro, CLisp and Corman Lisp.
>
> True.
>
>> But Lispworks and Allegro cost money.. and so they are not what most
>> interested people are looking for to learn Lisp.
>
> This is absolutely false. In fact, we have hundreds of downloads of
> our _free_ Express Edition every month for precisely this purpose.
> And I believe that Lispworks has the same kind of arrangement.
While there are free versions that are good for learning the basics of
Lisp they always had memory limitations when I checked them out.
Alas, these limitations did not come from the limitation of ram itself.
Several interesting things can't be done with memory limitations.
So under Windows a mix of Allegro and CLisp could be interesting.
In Allegro one can experience how it feels to program threads and make
use of several libraries. Also the user could see how fast Lisp can be
as Allegro seems to do the best compilation job in many situations.
With CLisp one could train memory-intensive algorithms.
> See
>
> http://www.franz.com/downloads/#AllegroCL_Download
>
>> As soon you have a product these Lisps are free - your customers will
>> pay them for you. So learning under Linux could be easier for some
>> people.
>
> Perhaps you meant here that the commercial lisps pay for themselves
> once customers are found for the OPs product. That is true, but has
> nothing to do with having to pay any money at all for a free version
> of either lisp for learning purposes.
Yes, that is what I meant.
A company does not pay taxes, it doesn't pay its employees, no raw
materials, no energy, etc.
All that is included in the prices of that companies products and
services. It is the end user who pays all of that.
Andr�
--
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 03:09:42 +0100, Andr� Thieme
<······························@justmail.de> wrote:
>
> See, if you visit the links I provided you see that you don't need to
> delete Windows. Your wife would not even need to know that Linux is
> installed. With virtualization software Linux can be installed under
> Windows. You run both systems at the same time!
> By pressing some keys you switch between the OS. So you can run
> Linux and a webserver, say, Portable AllegroServe, and use your
> browser under Windows to test the site with IE.
> So if you have some free space on your disk...
>
>
> Under Windows you could use Lispworks, Allegro, CLisp and Corman Lisp.
> But Lispworks and Allegro cost money.. and so they are not what most
> interested people are looking for to learn Lisp.
> As soon you have a product these Lisps are free - your customers will
> pay them for you. So learning under Linux could be easier for some
> people.
>
Ou contraire. I recommend LispWorks personal edition.
Also get Edi Weitz starter pack.
Over all the best Lisp environment around for free.
(If you get the professional edition it get's better)
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
On Feb 21, 7:44 pm, André Thieme <address.good.until.
···········@justmail.de> wrote:
> Running Linux unter QEMU:http://www.qemu.org/
> There you can use for example sbcl and cmucl.
> Later your project is likely to run anyway under a Linux server,
> so you can develop on such a system from the beginning.
Check out also the coLinux ( http://www.colinux.org/ ) project. It
might be more
effective than QEMU or VMware.
On the other hand if the OP is not familiar with Linux at all and not
willing to learn
at this moment, the free editions of LW or ACL probably are the way to
go.
(message (Hello 'Eyal)
(you :wrote :on '(Wed, 21 Feb 2007 00:09:06 +0200))
(
E> Can I use kpax with Lisp in a box on windows? If not, what is the
E> fastest route for web development on windows?
CLISP has some crude HTTP server bundled with it, you can find it in
src/inspect.lisp
certainly it's not 'production-ready', but might be suitable for a quick
hacks..
there's a plenty of other options.. for example, you can run CLISP as CGI
under Apache, or use Apache/mod_lisp.
or you can get free versions of commercial implementations..
i'm personally using quite an exotic setup under Windows -- Armed Bear
Common Lisp that is implemented in JVM, and thus can be runned as Apache
Tomcat's servlet.
http://abcl-web.sourceforge.net/
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"?? ???? ??????? ?????")