Just featured the Qi's logo into my page
A Lambda Logo Tour
(and why LISP languages using $B&K(B as logo should not be looked upon
kindly)
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/lambda_logo.html
btw, what is the word in the anamorphosis?
i kept thinking it says java. lol.
also, is there a page explaining the logo? i.e. i'd like to credit the
designer on my page.
Xah
···@xahlee.org
$B-t(B http://xahlee.org/
It is true. Lisp needs badly a logo. Not a high-level matter (one that
people in this group like to discuss), but perhaps worth addressing
after nearly 50 years of language history. I would dare to propose
first to discuss about it (what should be represented, etc.) Concrete
drafts could be made later.
Here is my proposal: some sensual lips. Rationale: lips is not the
same as lisp, but I was lisping...
On Dec 19, 7:30 am, ·······@eurogaran.com wrote:
> It is true. Lisp needs badly a logo. Not a high-level matter (one that
> people in this group like to discuss), but perhaps worth addressing
> after nearly 50 years of language history. I would dare to propose
> first to discuss about it (what should be represented, etc.) Concrete
> drafts could be made later.
I presonally like the lizard, http://www.normal-null.de/lisp_logo.php
Alien http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html is fun but not looks childish
and lisp is more tha half century old
Maybe a chameleon would be good, inspired by Foderaro article Lisp is
a chameleon www.paulgraham.com/chameleon.html too bad that corel
already took it http://www.corelclub.cz/clanky_2007/chameleon.jpg
> Here is my proposal: some sensual lips. Rationale: lips is not the
> same as lisp, but I was lisping...
Not good sound more like clips www.ghg.net/clips/CLIPS.html
cheers
Slobodan
Slobodan Blazeski schrieb:
> On Dec 19, 7:30 am, ·······@eurogaran.com wrote:
> > It is true. Lisp needs badly a logo. ...
> > Not a high-level matter (one that
> > people in this group like to discuss), but perhaps worth addressing
> > after nearly 50 years of language history. I would dare to propose
> > first to discuss about it (what should be represented, etc.) Concrete
> > drafts could be made later.
> I presonally like the lizard, ...
> Alien ...
> Maybe a chameleon
I vote for something classical. Simple and easy and old(sSee lisp is
very old). Until today you still need a keyboard and no mouse - is worth
a thought (means, how to klick on an icon with the keyboard?). There is
a tree-icon placed in most GUIs that marked all *.lsp, *.lisp files (so
on my windows-explorer-screen) and guess, its a lambda sign (someone
forgot *.fsl, *.fasl files). Hmmm.
_______________
| |
| ------- |
| ---------- |
| --------- |
| ------- |
| --- |
|_______________|
(simple a few text lines as 32x32 in 2 collors)
Or you can write LI SP in 2 rows like the I(love)NY sign. (not orginaly
new, still a copy)
To serve all it should be possible to overlay the company logo (for
example: over the logo above you can place a lambda sign) thats the
"multi" part.
As I remember there was a thread about icons and banners sometimes in
the past. (and some nice examples where made).
By the way, do you remember the first icon you saw on your screen?
Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com> writes:
> On Dec 19, 7:30 am, ·······@eurogaran.com wrote:
>> It is true. Lisp needs badly a logo. Not a high-level matter (one that
>> people in this group like to discuss), but perhaps worth addressing
>> after nearly 50 years of language history. I would dare to propose
>> first to discuss about it (what should be represented, etc.) Concrete
>> drafts could be made later.
> I presonally like the lizard, http://www.normal-null.de/lisp_logo.php
> Alien http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html is fun but not looks childish
> and lisp is more tha half century old
I like the alien the best. It's instantly recognizable and fun. I don't
think it's all that great as logos go, but I'm not sure that any
language *needs* a logo. I can't think of any widely used language that
actually has a good / much-used logo.
Java's triangle guy thingy is ugly as hell and I haven't seen it in ages.
Perl doesn't have an official logo (O'Reilly has the trademark on
camels+perl) and has done well without it.
Ruby's ruby is just boring, and not all that well used. And the new one
is even uglier than the old one:
http://marcricblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/new-ruby-language-logo-on-block.html
WARNING: link above has music for some reason!
C and C++ never had a logo AFAIK
C# etc I don't know.
Python's logo I had to look up - I'm pretty sure I'd never seen it
before 5 minutes ago.
PHP has an ugly logo, but that's kind of fitting.
So on the plus side, any well designed logo will be automatically better
than most other languages'. I still like the alien the best.
If anyone has pointers to other languages with logos that *don't* suck,
let's see them!
Joost.
Den Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:11:28 +0100 skrev Joost Diepenmaat:
> So on the plus side, any well designed logo will be automatically better
> than most other languages'. I still like the alien the best.
I like both the lizard and the monster. The lizard is really elegant,
that'd be a logo I'd use to brag about using Lisp. The monster is not at
all elegant, but it's somewhat amusing, and is the one to use if you want
to pique someone's curiosity.
Cheers,
Maciej
On Dec 19, 4:51 pm, Maciej Katafiasz <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Den Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:11:28 +0100 skrev Joost Diepenmaat:
>
> > So on the plus side, any well designed logo will be automatically better
> > than most other languages'. I still like the alien the best.
>
> I like both the lizard and the monster. The lizard is really elegant,
> that'd be a logo I'd use to brag about using Lisp. The monster is not at
> all elegant, but it's somewhat amusing, and is the one to use if you want
> to pique someone's curiosity.
You know what the English language needs...a well designed logo!
Actually a set of logos, we definitely need one for broken english
as well. Then it could appear in shop windows, beside the technical
support line numbers, etc.
Does anyone actually choose a programming language because it
has a cool logo, do you want to work with someone that thinks
that way? Let's give Malboge or Brainf*ck the coolest logo
around and clear out some of the dreck programmers. :)
----
Geoff
GS> Does anyone actually choose a programming language because it
GS> has a cool logo, do you want to work with someone that thinks
GS> that way?
you're judging from perspective of experienced programmers, but there are a
lot of unexperienced ones, and they do not know what programming language is
actually good for them.
there are advocates for all languages out there, and often they'll promise
you'll be able to do cool things once you'll master the language. how to
choose without experience?
here additional, indirect factors come into a play, like design of logo and
websites. and there is some sense behind it..
for example, Ruby On Rails' site (http://www.rubyonrails.org/) looks quite
attractive, with it's trendy "web 2.0" look.
unlike UCW's site (http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw/).
and indeed UCW is not for wide unprepared audience out there, unlike RoR, so
judging from look gives correct result.
GS> Let's give Malboge or Brainf*ck the coolest logo around and clear out
GS> some of the dreck programmers. :)
this applies only to cases when alternatives are almost equal and there is
no clear winner.
On Dec 20, 9:23 am, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> GS> Does anyone actually choose a programming language because it
> GS> has a cool logo, do you want to work with someone that thinks
> GS> that way?
>
> you're judging from perspective of experienced programmers, but there are a
> lot of unexperienced ones, and they do not know what programming language is
> actually good for them.
> there are advocates for all languages out there, and often they'll promise
> you'll be able to do cool things once you'll master the language. how to
> choose without experience?
>
> here additional, indirect factors come into a play, like design of logo and
> websites. and there is some sense behind it..
>
> for example, Ruby On Rails' site (http://www.rubyonrails.org/) looks quite
> attractive, with it's trendy "web 2.0" look.
> unlike UCW's site (http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw/).
>
> and indeed UCW is not for wide unprepared audience out there, unlike RoR, so
> judging from look gives correct result.
>
> GS> Let's give Malboge or Brainf*ck the coolest logo around and clear out
> GS> some of the dreck programmers. :)
>
> this applies only to cases when alternatives are almost equal and there is
> no clear winner.
Folks from 37 signals are famous for their design skills, I don't know
that ucw or any other lisp framework server hired a graphical designer
to make their site.
cheers
Slobodan
Geoffrey Summerhayes <·······@gmail.com> writes:
> On Dec 19, 4:51 pm, Maciej Katafiasz <········@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Den Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:11:28 +0100 skrev Joost Diepenmaat:
>>
>> > So on the plus side, any well designed logo will be automatically better
>> > than most other languages'. I still like the alien the best.
>>
>> I like both the lizard and the monster. The lizard is really elegant,
>> that'd be a logo I'd use to brag about using Lisp. The monster is not at
>> all elegant, but it's somewhat amusing, and is the one to use if you want
>> to pique someone's curiosity.
>
> You know what the English language needs...a well designed logo!
> Actually a set of logos, we definitely need one for broken english
> as well. Then it could appear in shop windows, beside the technical
> support line numbers, etc.
>
> Does anyone actually choose a programming language because it
> has a cool logo, do you want to work with someone that thinks
> that way?
Of course not. What a language needs, is a winning army!
Which would mean that the best thing we can do to improve lisp
practice, is to program powerful weapons in it >:-}
> Let's give Malboge or Brainf*ck the coolest logo
> around and clear out some of the dreck programmers. :)
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
"I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth
contest. They will not concern us again."
Joost Diepenmaat wrote:
> Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com> writes:
> I like the alien the best. It's instantly recognizable and fun. I don't
> think it's all that great as logos go, but I'm not sure that any
> language *needs* a logo. I can't think of any widely used language that
> actually has a good / much-used logo.
I absolutely love the alien. I even painted it onto the glass door of my
office. So far, no objections received. ;-) I understand that other
people might have different preferences, but for me, this is the one to
go with. :)
Jakub
Jakub Hegenbart <·······@kimagure.cz> writes:
> Joost Diepenmaat wrote:
>> Slobodan Blazeski <·················@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I like the alien the best. It's instantly recognizable and fun. I don't
>> think it's all that great as logos go, but I'm not sure that any
>> language *needs* a logo. I can't think of any widely used language
>> that actually has a good / much-used logo.
>
> I absolutely love the alien. I even painted it onto the glass door of
> my office. So far, no objections received. ;-) I understand that other
> people might have different preferences, but for me, this is the one
> to go with. :)
The main "problem" I have with the alien is that it's a pretty complex
image to use as a logo. The small version at
http://www.lisperati.com/lisplogo_128.png is probably about as small as you can
get without it becoming unrecognizable.
I can imagine it's possible to warp it into something simpler, to use as
a small logo - with no text but the word "LISP", which probably should
then be bigger in relation to the rest of the image. I don't think the
"flag only" logo really works.
Joost.
SB> I presonally like the lizard, http://www.normal-null.de/lisp_logo.php
SB> Alien http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html is fun but not looks childish
alien is cool!!!!!111
SB> and lisp is more tha half century old
are you sure this monster is young? it could be some breed of dinosaurs,
that were living millyunz years ago..
P� Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:30:41 +0100, skrev <·······@eurogaran.com>:
> It is true. Lisp needs badly a logo. Not a high-level matter (one that
> people in this group like to discuss), but perhaps worth addressing
> after nearly 50 years of language history. I would dare to propose
> first to discuss about it (what should be represented, etc.) Concrete
> drafts could be made later.
> Here is my proposal: some sensual lips. Rationale: lips is not the
> same as lisp, but I was lisping...
The lizard works for me.
http://www.normal-null.de/lisp_logo.html
--------------
John Thingstad
From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Pertti_Kellom=E4ki?=
Subject: Re: Qi lang logo
Date:
Message-ID: <fke03b$3c1$1@news.cc.tut.fi>
If Lisp needs a logo, it should definitely be a ball of mud
(from diamond vs. ball of mud). Should be easy enough to draw...
--
Pertti
XL> A Lambda Logo Tour
XL> (and why LISP languages using $B&K(B as logo should not be looked upon
XL> kindly)
XL> I love these lambda-featuring logos. However, i have a complaint. As
most of you know, lisp languages are not purely functional languages.
XL> As most of you know, the lambda symbol chosen by functional languages
is to signify no side-effects.
afaik LISP was first programming language featuring LAMBDAs (and was
_inspired_ by lambda calculus), so, STFU.
other languages deserving lambda symbol more than lisp appeared later, but
why should we care?
In the past several years, i realized i have a heart for logos.
Probably because the nature of logo's simplicity, and often
geometrical elegance, and my personal penchant toward these qualities.
Since i'm a programer by profession, and in many tech corporations,
languages, software, all have logos just like in many other fields, i
have often find some language or groups (often small communities (e.g.
lisp, python, lojban)), often have very bad logos. As a fan or neutral
to the group, often i bring the issue up in the respective forum to
let the community know, so to speak, that their logo sucks, or that
they need one, as a betterment of the particular community.
However, in these groups people are tech geekers, and are often
ignorant of anything other than computing technicalities. They usually
do not understand the basic meaning or purpose of logos, or the basic
principles of logo graphics design. But worse, that they often do not
explicitly understand that these subject existed. So my voicing about
logos often met with frustration.
The following is something i wrote a few times over the past 4 or so
years, that i've discussed with the lojban, lisp, python, emacs,
communities. I hope it'll elucidate a bit on the subject of logos.
--------------
A good logo is not something generic, even if it is beautifully
rendered.
Example of logos with this problem:
* old gnu hurd logo of just a generic sphere
( http://www.gnu.org/graphics/hurd-logo-sm.jpg )
* Fresco Window system of triangles ( http://fresco.org/ )
* cvs's fish. ( http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/gki/cvssmaller.gif)
* bash of simplistic font ( http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/bash/bashtop.html
)
* python's old logo, consisting a simplistic font.
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/gki/py/pythonHi.png
Better logos should be reminiscent to what it represents. Good
example's are SGI's computer rendered cube/hexagon illusion, Sun
Micro's 8Us that spells out Sun in 4 directions, Apple's bitten apple,
Be media company's eye-ear logo, NeXT's geometrical cube, X-Window's
sharp X, Redhat's redhat, GNU's gnu head, BSD's deamon tyke, Microsoft
Windows's window, Perl's ugly camel, nVidia's eye, GNU Hurd OS'
recursive arrows, Shell's seashell, McDonnald's M, Taco Bell's bell,
Honda's H, Yamaha's tuning forks ...
Good logo should be distinct, a impression lock, even if it isn't
reminiscent of what it represents. For example, AT&T's death star
(globe connotation), Apache feather (Native American, panache),
Disney's micky-mouse face-ears silhouette, General Electric's curlicue
font in circle. Even font alone can do very good if in distinctive
style: IBM stripped blue, Coke drink's cursives, ATI's high-tech font,
ebay and google's and yahoo's colorful fonts.
Note that the logo of popular corporations are not necessaily good.
Examples are: SONY, JVC, TOSHIBA, RCA, Microsoft. These are just
simple typefaces that are unremarkable.
Good logo should not be overly complex. It shouldn't be photographic
or complex drawings, in general.
-----------
Further readings:
* Unix logo tour
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/freebooks.html
* Unix Apps logo tour
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/usoft.html
* Functional Lang logo tour
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/lambda_logo.html
* Lisp needs a logo
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/logo_lisp.html
* Wikipedia on logo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo
* History of wikipedia's logo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos_and_slogans
In addition, your local libraries probably have many books about logos
and logo history. Alternatively, ask a friend who is a full-time
professional graphics designer, or a art student, she'll probably show
you colorful books and periodicals and logo collections, and logo
design social awards etc you didn't know existed.
PS: Logos, as a subject among human animal's activities and histories,
is rather a trivial subject. And, of course, different person can have
different esthetic tastes. Nor are logos a critical matter in view of
the whole human endeavor. However, a minimal understanding of logos,
and logo's design priciples, is good to have as a general knowledge in
our complex modern society inundated with computer graphics and
corporate logos. (actually, recently i found out that there are
academicians who calk up the issue to a term "visual-literacy" with
full discourse, which i think is overboard.)
Xah
···@xahlee.org
$B-t(B http://xahlee.org/
Conrad Barski's "alien technology" lisp web-badge
http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html
and
Manfred Spiller's "lizard" lisp web-badge
http://www.normal-null.de/lisp_logo.html
are web-badges, which differs in nature than logos, as i have detailed
in this article:
Lisp Needs A Logo
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/logo_lisp.html
----
Also, lisp tech geekers often have the mentality that "we don't need
to follow fashion and use a logo". This is due to their low level of
general knowledge. (i.e. lack of general education or social
literacy.)
This i have explained somewhat in my previous post here in this
thread. HTML version with extended text and colors and links is now at
* Tips for Good Logo Design
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/logo_design.html
Here's a short excerpt of the new text:
$B!V(B
PURPOSE OF LOGOS
Logos, is a graphical representation of a entity. It is the visual
analogous to names. Logos are particularly important in our modern,
capitalistic, corporate environment. Look around you, you can find
tens of logos in your immediate surroundings, and recognize each of
them or the company, without being conscious of the fact.
Logos is not a fashion statement. It has strong ties with marketing
and public perception, which is a general property to anything
representative, such as book covers, corporation's names, people's
attires.
$B!W(B
Sure, a good computer language needs not to have a logo to sell
itself. However, a good book don't need good book covers neither, nor
does your clothing represents your programing skills in a job
interview. This, does not mean book cover's design can be blank or
sloppy, or that you can go naked in interviews.
(dear driveling tech geeking morons, go fuck yourselfs.)
-----------------------------------
Many lisp tech geekers often have a mentality of elitism... that when
it comes to the issue that they don't have a logo representing the
language, they tend to think (out of their social-illiteracy outlined
above) that they don't need logos because they are above-it and don't
want to follow current fashions.
Speaking of fashions, the design in the lizard and the alien-elephant
lisp webdages, are actually fashion based. The gist of the alien-
elephant's design concept is that of pleasing the general public, by
using something cute, yet with word "alien", to cajole the mundane
that lisp is advanced technology and fun.
In terms representative graphics designs (logo, badge, insignia, seal,
ensign...), the lizard is worst. The lizard one has little or none
connotation to lisp (possibly with the forced connection between
pronouncing lisp and lizard, or that lizard produces hissing sounds
characteristic of the lisp speech impediment. Both farfetched and
negative). The most important aspect in a logo design is that it has
some connection to what it represents. The lizard one fails this. But
also, the lizard one is rather bland and generic, failing another
important criterion in logo design. The lizard art, is pretty much
just a well-rendered illustration, and using the most basic tools that
are available in today's illustration software. (i.e. the tell-tale
glaze) The lizard amounts to a cool, fashionable, artwork that are
meaningless and artless too. (The version without the the elliptical
outline and glaze is very good though)
(Note: sorry to its author for the harsh criticism. And, i appreciate
his artwork and work for having done this for the lisp community. I
myself couldn't have drawn such beautiful graphic.)
I am somewhat of a classicist. So, when it comes to lisp logos, my
favorite existing lisp logo that i've ran into, is actually a simple
futuristic twisty typeface that spells "lisp".
I like this logo very much! The inter-connected, twisty, and simple
geometric outline imparts to the readers senses of artificial
intelligence. (and possibly parenthesis)
Although i haven't lived in the 1980s as a programer to have
experienced the AI period and its downfall, and all the bad
association with the word AI (so-called AI Winter). But, as a
classicist, who in general hates fashion and fads, i like this AI era
logo for its simplicity, austerity, without any need to be cute,
spiffy, or avoiding the social-political blemish of the AI word.
Yesterday i took the time to horn my vector drawing skills to produce
a vector-based version of the logo. This i now use for my emacs lisp
tutorial page. See:
http://xahlee.org/emacs/elisp.html
Not sure flaming red is suitable for general use, but it is my
favorite.
(svg version available if anyone wants. Free free to copy and use it.
Preferrably with acknowledgement)
Does anyone know who designed this logo? or where it originated?
Xah
···@xahlee.org
$B-t(B http://xahlee.org/
On 19 Dec, 13:28, Xah Lee <····@xahlee.org> wrote:
> Just featured the Qi's logo into my page
>
> A Lambda Logo Tour
> (and why LISP languages using $B&K(B as logo should not be looked upon
> kindly)http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/lambda_logo.html
>
> btw, what is the word in the anamorphosis?
>
> i kept thinking it says java. lol.
> also, is there a page explaining the logo? i.e. i'd like to credit the
> designer on my page.
>
> Xah
> ····@xahlee.org
> $B-t(Bhttp://xahlee.org/
Its not really a logo, though it could be used as such. The artwork
is actually a snapshot of an animated image which is quite spectacular
though right now I cannot remember where I lifted this image from. I
think the image was taken from a page which itself took it from
somewhere else.
The lambda was added by yours truly with obvious associations and the
placing gives the illusion of the glyph rising from the centre of the
whirling wheel which incidentally is decorated with 1s and 0s (not
java, eeeww) symbolising the centrality of functional programming and
the mastery it gives of the medium of programming.
Well thats what I tell myself but really I just stuck it there cos it
seemed good but hey ....
;)
Mark
PS Um, the Lisp logo. I think the bendy Lisp logo letter version of
Mr Lee is the best.
Some unsupported assertions:
1. Good logos often come as a result of very free-wheeling
brainstorming with people just throwing out ideas. I think that's
because it's an associative and visual thing, not analytic.
2. Logos that are just a clever font or way of writing a word pretty
much suck. Better is an icon--something iconic and abstract, but even
better--you don't want a logo so much as a mascot. People remember
mascots, like the Linux Penguin (obvious example). The way to use them
is: everywhere. Just arbitrarily plaster them on anything related, and
people will come to associate them with the thing. At first you can put
the name somewhere near it (like adding the word `lisp' to it somewhere)
but long-term, the goal is for the mascot image itself not to need any
words. Nobody needs to read the word McDonald's when they see the
golden arches. Or, for a more apropos example, nobody needs to see
Rolls Royce, when they see the RR logo (both of which are clever font
logos, but that's beside the point.)
3. Getting lisp hackers to agree to anything appears to be like the
proverbial herding of cats. Perhaps what's needed is not a lisp logo,
but a Common Lisp logo. Or maybe what's not needed is a Common Lisp
logo, but a (say,) SBCL logo. If someone starts using it and it gets
popular, it'll get modified and picked up by others. Eventually some
bastardized version will invade all lisps.
4. Finally, the reality is, lisp already has a logo:
Lambda; like it or not.
Hey! Maybe what lisp really needs is a catch phrase! A tag line; a
slogan. Hmm. "Lisp, love it or leave it." Actually there's president
for that, isn't there? "Perl: There's more than one way to do it."
Maybe it should be "Lisp: My way or the highway."
Lisp: it's what's for dinner.
Got lisp?
Give me lisperty or give me death!
Lisp: How big is *your* package?
etc.
But anyway here's an algorithm for coming up with a logo:
1. For the thing you want to `logoize', identify the specific
attributes of that thing that you want to emphasise--What is best,
coolest, most unique (i.e., most closely approaching uniqueness, for you
grammar Nazis) about it? For instance, with lisp, perhaps the code/data
equivalence, or the flexibility of coding style and technique--to be all
things to all men, or perhaps that it has an interesting
history--whatever.
2. Make a list, literally or figuratively, of things--real, concrete
entities--that share one or more of those characteristics on a literal
level.
3. Make lists of things that share those characteristics on a
non-literal level--metaphoric, symbolic, mythic, even verbal (as in,
puns).
4. Look at your lists, see if there is any intersection, see if
anything jumps out (something will, most likely).
5. Find somebody to draw it up.
Hmmm, thinking about it, when i think of the code/data equivalence, it
makes me think of the yin-yang symbol (which that AI lisp logo on Xah
Lee's site resembles a bit). And when i think of the flexibility of
lisp, it makes me think of snakes. You could make that AI lisp logo
with a pair of snakes. Or a yin-yang. Actually you can abstract a
yin-yang into a pair of cobras, or into a pair of slightly offset
parentheses, if you design it cleverly. I don't know if snakes is quite
appropriate. Maybe worms--how about those giant sand worms from Dune?
Somehow that seems more appropriate. Or maybe eels--eels are kinda
out-of-this-world and alien (i do, by the way, like the alien logo).
I can see it now. Elsworth the Eel. Or Monty the Moray.
Well, i think i've done enough silly free associating for the moment.
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.
--
Theron Ttlåx
thorne <······@timbral.net> writes:
> Some unsupported assertions:
>
> Hey! Maybe what lisp really needs is a catch phrase! A tag line; a
> slogan. Hmm. "Lisp, love it or leave it." Actually there's president
> for that, isn't there?
Ah, so /that's/ what your president is for.
:D
Joost.
thorne wrote:
> Some unsupported assertions:
>
> 1. Good logos often come as a result of very free-wheeling
> brainstorming with people just throwing out ideas. I think that's
> because it's an associative and visual thing, not analytic.
>
> 2. Logos that are just a clever font or way of writing a word pretty
> much suck. Better is an icon--something iconic and abstract, but even
> better--you don't want a logo so much as a mascot. People remember
> mascots, like the Linux Penguin (obvious example). The way to use them
> is: everywhere. Just arbitrarily plaster them on anything related, and
> people will come to associate them with the thing. At first you can put
> the name somewhere near it (like adding the word `lisp' to it somewhere)
> but long-term, the goal is for the mascot image itself not to need any
> words. Nobody needs to read the word McDonald's when they see the
> golden arches. Or, for a more apropos example, nobody needs to see
> Rolls Royce, when they see the RR logo (both of which are clever font
> logos, but that's beside the point.)
>
> 3. Getting lisp hackers to agree to anything appears to be like the
> proverbial herding of cats. Perhaps what's needed is not a lisp logo,
> but a Common Lisp logo. Or maybe what's not needed is a Common Lisp
> logo, but a (say,) SBCL logo. If someone starts using it and it gets
> popular, it'll get modified and picked up by others. Eventually some
> bastardized version will invade all lisps.
>
> 4. Finally, the reality is, lisp already has a logo:
>
> Lambda; like it or not.
>
> Hey! Maybe what lisp really needs is a catch phrase! A tag line; a
> slogan. Hmm. "Lisp, love it or leave it." Actually there's president
> for that, isn't there? "Perl: There's more than one way to do it."
> Maybe it should be "Lisp: My way or the highway."
>
> Lisp: it's what's for dinner.
> Got lisp?
> Give me lisperty or give me death!
> Lisp: How big is *your* package?
>
> etc.
>
>
> But anyway here's an algorithm for coming up with a logo:
1. Decide on a name?
I thought we pretty much agreed that The Real Problem was the name
"Lisp", and that we were going to come up with a new name before doing
anything else?
Of course we could do what Prince did and /just/ have a logo, but I
heard he backed off that, possibly because his name had in practice
become Theartistformerlyknownasprince and the bank refused to put that
on his checks.
What was the question?
kt
--
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
"In the morning, hear the Way;
in the evening, die content!"
-- Confucius
Mark Tarver wrote:
$B!V(BThe artwork is actually a snapshot of an animated image which is
quite spectacular though right now I cannot remember where I lifted
this image from. I think the image was taken from a page which itself
took it from somewhere else.$B!W(B
You scum!! =(^_^)=
i put on my beret and took out my dusty art gears and bent and fleshed
out what meagre skills i have at it, and arrived at:
http://xahlee.org/emacs/qi_logo.html
Hope you'll like it.
Xah
···@xahlee.org
$B-t(B http://xahlee.org/
On Dec 22, 2:35 am, Mark Tarver <··········@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
On 19 Dec, 13:28,XahLee<····@xahlee.org> wrote:
> Just featured the Qi's logo into my page
> A Lambda Logo Tour
> (and why LISP languages using $B&K(B as logo should not be looked upon
> kindly)http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/lambda_logo.html
> btw, what is the word in the anamorphosis?
> i kept thinking it says java. lol.
> also, is there a page explaining the logo? i.e. i'd like to credit the
> designer on my page.
> Xah
> ····@xahlee.org
> $B-t(Bhttp://xahlee.org/
Its not really a logo, though it could be used as such. The artwork
is actually a snapshot of an animated image which is quite spectacular
though right now I cannot remember where I lifted this image from. I
think the image was taken from a page which itself took it from
somewhere else.
The lambda was added by yours truly with obvious associations and the
placing gives the illusion of the glyph rising from the centre of the
whirling wheel which incidentally is decorated with 1s and 0s (not
java, eeeww) symbolising the centrality of functional programming and
the mastery it gives of the medium of programming.
Well thats what I tell myself but really I just stuck it there cos it
seemed good but hey ....
;)
Mark
PS Um, the Lisp logo. I think the bendy Lisp logo letter version of
MrLeeis the best.
> i put on my beret and took out my dusty art gears and bent and fleshed
> out what meagre skills i have at it, and arrived at:
>
> http://xahlee.org/emacs/qi_logo.html
>
> Hope you'll like it.
>
> Xah
Actually thats quite clever. You have a knack for this work I would
say.
Mark
XL> $B!V(BThe artwork is actually a snapshot of an animated image which is
XL> quite spectacular though right now I cannot remember where I lifted
XL> this image from. I think the image was taken from a page which itself
XL> took it from somewhere else.$B!W(B
XL> You scum!! =(^_^)=
XL> i put on my beret and took out my dusty art gears and bent and fleshed
XL> out what meagre skills i have at it, and arrived at:
XL> http://xahlee.org/emacs/qi_logo.html
XL> Hope you'll like it.
excellent idea, but implementation ain't good.
lambda looks weird, can you replace it with one from some professionally
made font?
at closer look, "i" is not perfect too, bottom of it for example, but that's
seen on larger version only.
i thought the naming Qi has to do the chinese concept. (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi , think of the jedi's Force)
So, the logo incorporate chinese characteristics. The lambda, and the
i, is meant to give a impression of Chinese caligraphy with brush
strokes.
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_calligraphy )
The outline of the Q typeface is symbolic to parenthesis (signifying
its lisp origin and compatibility). Its outline is a perfect circle.
Of course, am happy to modify the logo if Mark likes.
here's few Qi lang sites with the mysterious force concept
association:
($B!H(Bqilan$B!I(B similar to $B!H(Bqigong$B!I(B)
http://code.google.com/p/qilang/
blog named $B!H(BProgramming Kung Fu Qi$B!I(B
http://programmingkungfuqi.blogspot.com/2007/08/haskell-like-type-classes-in-qi.html
Xah
···@xahlee.org
$B-t(B http://xahlee.org/
Oh, forgot to mention... the lambda char "$B&K(B" is very similar or
identical to a chinese char: "$BF~(B", which means "enter". For a chinese
not familiar with English, a lambda is just read as that char.
See http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$BF~(B
Some example phrases involving the char:
$B!z(B $B2CF~(B = join in
$B!z(B $B5[F~(B = suck in; absorb in
$B!z(B $B<}F~(B = income (as in salary)
$B!z(B $BF~Lg(B = introduction or becoming familiar of (some subject, in the
context of learning. (e.g. "introduction to emacs" would be "Emacs $BF~(B
$BLg(B"))
$B!z(B $BF~8}(B = entranc; gate. (the "$B8}(B" literally means "mouth", and is what
this pictogram is about)
Now, since it is positioned like a gate under the big O... there are
many creative interpretations. For example, beckoning people to learn
Qi; Join the Force; entering the realm ... etc, with connections to
Jedi or the Lambda knight...
Now a big round O in western culture also has connotations... for
example, there's a magazine named <<O>>, and "the story of O", the
exclaimation "O" (modern spelling variant "Oh"), and the mouth's shape
itself...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_(fetish_magazine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_of_O
with all these entrances or gate connotations, you can let your
imagination run a bit wild.
Xah
···@xahlee.org
$B-t(B http://xahlee.org/
On Dec 24, 4:11 am, Xah Lee <····@xahlee.org> wrote:
> i thought the naming Qi has to do the chinese concept. (seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi, think of the jedi's Force)
>
> So, the logo incorporate chinese characteristics. The lambda, and the
> i, is meant to give a impression of Chinese caligraphy with brush
> strokes.
> (seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_calligraphy)
>
> The outline of the Q typeface is symbolic to parenthesis (signifying
> its lisp origin and compatibility). Its outline is a perfect circle.
>
> Of course, am happy to modify the logo if Mark likes.
>
> here's few Qi lang sites with the mysterious force concept
> association:
>
> ("qilan" similar to "qigong")http://code.google.com/p/qilang/
>
> blog named "Programming Kung Fu Qi"http://programmingkungfuqi.blogspot.com/2007/08/haskell-like-type-cla...
>
> Xah
> ····@xahlee.org
> $B-t(Bhttp://xahlee.org/
XL> So, the logo incorporate chinese characteristics. The lambda, and the
XL> i, is meant to give a impression of Chinese caligraphy with brush
XL> strokes.
ye, i see, but unfortunately IMHO it doesn't look like Chinese caligraphy,
but like a programmer's attempt to draw something looking like Chinese
caligraphy.
it's extremely hard to draw nice strokes unless you're natural born
painter/caligraph, i don't think it's possible to learn such stuff..
so if you see how your work differs from actual caligraphy (i.e. from
wiktionary page on that chinese lambda symbol:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/$BF~(B-order.gif), you can
try to get it from chinese font, or grab caligraphy symbol from somewhere,
whatever fits..
that will make it closer to perfection IMHO :).
certainly few people will notice this except maybe very subtle feeling of
imperfection..
Alex Mizrahi wrote
$B!V(B
ye, i see, but unfortunately IMHO it doesn't look like Chinese
caligraphy,
but like a programmer's attempt to draw something looking like Chinese
caligraphy.
it's extremely hard to draw nice strokes unless you're natural born
painter/caligraph, i don't think it's possible to learn such stuff..
so if you see how your work differs from actual caligraphy (i.e. from
wiktionary page on that chinese lambda symbol:http://
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/$BF~(B-order.gif), you can
try to get it from chinese font, or grab caligraphy symbol from
somewhere,
whatever fits..
that will make it closer to perfection IMHO :).
$B!W(B
part of the logo design, is to give a chinese feel. Rendering the
Greek lambda char completely like the chinese $BF~(B character is not its
goal. The greek lambda and chinese char for Enter are similar in
overall shape, but not the same. I could draw the lambda so that looks
more like the chinese char, but then it loses the lambda connection,
and there's is also the need to make the O and the lowered small
lambda look like a Q.
i experimented a bit with what you suggest, here the result.
http://xahlee.org/emacs/qi_logo/qi_lang_logo_variations.svg
2 of them uses the chinese enter char, the other uses the greek lambda
char, all pulling from unmodified font.
------------
By the way, did you know that cocks possess congenital aggression
toward all males of the same species?
If you feel like comparing sizes, how about you make one design, and
let's see who's better? Mark can be the arbiter, and the Qi and lisp
community can benefit from our blood, and we show off how devoted we
are for the good of Open Source humanity.
Btw, i was born with 100% pure chinese blood, grew up in Taiwan till
14, and actually have practiced chinese caligraphy as part of the
stupid traditional asian school edu program back then. (i think it's
abolished now)
Maybe you should watch the movie Hero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film)
In it, there is a big theme of caligraphy, and how from the character
of sword
$B!HQx!I(B written by a master swordsman and calligrapher, you can decipher
the secret to defeat him.
Xah
···@xahlee.org
$B-t(B http://xahlee.org/
On Dec 24, 6:57 am, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> XL> So, the logo incorporate chinese characteristics. The lambda, and the
> XL> i, is meant to give a impression of Chinese caligraphy with brush
> XL> strokes.
>
> ye, i see, but unfortunately IMHO it doesn't look like Chinese caligraphy,
> but like a programmer's attempt to draw something looking like Chinese
> caligraphy.
> it's extremely hard to draw nice strokes unless you're natural born
> painter/caligraph, i don't think it's possible to learn such stuff..
>
> so if you see how your work differs from actual caligraphy (i.e. from
> wiktionary page on that chinese lambda symbol:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/$BF~(B-order.gif), you can
> try to get it from chinese font, or grab caligraphy symbol from somewhere,
> whatever fits..
> that will make it closer to perfection IMHO :).
>
> certainly few people will notice this except maybe very subtle feeling of
> imperfection..