On Aug 19, 10:01 pm, Matthias Buelow <····@incubus.de> wrote:
> You're unworthy of emacs if you can't stand being
> second-guessed by some dumb software.
I was about to reach for the root-kit, but your
post brought me to my senses. Some people, like
me and Oedipus, are predestined to experience
a certain fixed number of swift, crushing 2x4s
to the skull, and there's nothing that can be
done to avoid it. If you are predestined for
68,421 2x4s then you will get them, root-kit or
not, -ansi or not. Even if you try to pull a
van Gogh after the 68,420th, it won't work.
The gun will screw up or you won't find a wheat
field. You got 1 more blow to the head scheduled,
so get back to emacs and take it like a man.
And what's with that "it's not ansi" nonsense?
What's gonna happen if type something that's not
ansi? Will I spontaneously combust? Will California
sink into the ocean? Will Janis Joplin rise from
the rave? Will Kent Pitman pay me a visit with a
couple of ripped numbchuck-swinging enforcers and
bust up my living-room? "Next time use -ansi or what
happened to your TV and sofa is gonna happen
to your face, boy."
They're my damn fingers and I'll damn well
not type no -ansi if I don't want to.
> You slimy bag of water.
SLIME. There's a great name for a piece
of software. I wonder what other candidates they
passed up. FILTH? PUKE? VOMIT? As if programmer
"helper" tools don't already make you miserable
with their death-by-a-thousand cuts and chinese
water-drop philosophies. Now I got to fend of sudden
revolting images of warm, sticky, drippy, freshly-horked
plague-infected phlegm oozing over my keyboard and fingertips.
They could have at least called it something cool
like SLISAK: Superior Lisp Interactive Shaolin Ass-kick.
That would have made my thankless job of brainwashing
shiftless bums (students) into the virtues of Lisp a
little easier. But no, it's SLIME. That's gonna go over
well with a classroom full of dandruff-coated sawdust sacks.
"Dah teech-ah wanz uz tah yooze slime. Hahahah whadda tool."
······@gmail.com writes:
> On Aug 19, 10:01 pm, Matthias Buelow <····@incubus.de> wrote:
>
>> You slimy bag of water.
>
>
> SLIME. There's a great name for a piece
> of software. I wonder what other candidates they
> passed up. FILTH? PUKE? VOMIT? As if programmer
> "helper" tools don't already make you miserable
> with their death-by-a-thousand cuts and chinese
> water-drop philosophies. Now I got to fend of sudden
> revolting images of warm, sticky, drippy, freshly-horked
> plague-infected phlegm oozing over my keyboard and fingertips.
Depends on your point of view. A water-skiier wouldn't get caught
dead in the water without a bottle of slime; it is all you describe it
to be, and it allows your foot into an otherwise impossibly small
boot, which if it were any looser so as to go on easier, it would also
come off when you need it most. There is actually only one brand
actually named "Slime" (and I don't know of any that have been named
filth, puke, or vomit, yet); others are named "goop", "gunk", etc.
But their generic name is "slime"; they all serve the same purpose,
and I always have slime in my boat's glove compartment.
So watch how you talk about sticky, drippy fresh-hocked phlegm...
--
Duane Rettig ·····@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
On Aug 20, 1:03 pm, Duane Rettig <·····@franz.com> wrote:
> it is all you describe it to be, and it allows your foot
> into an otherwise impossibly small boot, which if it were
> any looser so as to go on easier, it would also come off
> when you need it most. There is actually only one brand
> actually named "Slime"
Thanks, I'll tell taht to the sawdust-sacks. It's sure to
nurture a perception of "teech-ah" as a way kool authority
figure. One that now has to struggle with sudden invasive
images of revolting freshly-horked gob AND stinking foot-fungus.
Duane Rettig <·····@franz.com> writes:
> Depends on your point of view. A water-skiier wouldn't get caught
> dead in the water without a bottle of slime;
Just to contribute to the general nonsense:
In Oslo there's actually a place called Slime (and it has the same
meaning in norwegian, although the noun is just "Slim"), and there's a
Slime road, too :-)
--
(espen)
> ······@gmail.com writes:
>
>
>>On Aug 19, 10:01 pm, Matthias Buelow <····@incubus.de> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You slimy bag of water.
>>
>>
>>SLIME. There's a great name for a piece
>>of software.
What part of tradition do you not understand? Fifty years ago John
McCarthy created the perfect programming language and named it after a
speech impediment as a joke we are stuck with till the asteroid gets
here because the language can never be surpassed and you want us to be
serious about names? The unofficial spec was a thousand pages that not
only bent over backwards to play really bad games with words and names
but also put them in the frickin index and you want to run the name of a
development tool past a focus group? How do you do? My name is Sue. Now
you gonna die. Something like that.
hth,kxo
--
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:07:08 -0700, ······@gmail.com wrote:
>They could have at least called [SLIME] something cool
>like SLISAK ...
That sounds too much like "Sleestak". Though being sacrificed to the
Sleestak gods might be preferable to ooze on the keyboard.
George
--
for email reply remove "/" from address
······@gmail.com writes:
> And what's with that "it's not ansi" nonsense?
> What's gonna happen if type something that's not
> ansi? Will I spontaneously combust? Will California
> sink into the ocean? Will Janis Joplin rise from
> the rave? Will Kent Pitman pay me a visit with a
> couple of ripped numbchuck-swinging enforcers and
> bust up my living-room? "Next time use -ansi or what
> happened to your TV and sofa is gonna happen
> to your face, boy."
>
> They're my damn fingers and I'll damn well
> not type no -ansi if I don't want to.
The main problem with clisp implementing a list that is not strict
ANSI Common Lisp by default is that it leads you to use and expect
behaviors that are not portable. There is already enough
implementation dependant features in ANSI Common Lisp, there's no need
to add more.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
NOTE: The most fundamental particles in this product are held
together by a "gluing" force about which little is currently known
and whose adhesive power can therefore not be permanently
guaranteed.
On Aug 20, 10:45 am, Pascal Bourguignon <····@informatimago.com>
wrote:
> The main problem with clisp implementing a list that is not strict
> ANSI Common Lisp by default is that it leads you to use and expect
> behaviors that are not portable.
It doesn't. That's the kind of assumption emacs makes about people.
Really dumb software like emacs shouldn't be making assumptions about
the moral implications of programmer habits, the meaning of life, the
effect of coding style on the future of mankind, and stuff like that.
There's nothing unexpected about $ clisp, []> (load 'foo) => T.
Nothing unexpected about $ clisp -ansi, []> (load 'foo) => barf
either. There can be something unexpected when a buffalo-like
editor thinks it should make that decision for you.
I've had clisp running my programs on every system I've ever
used in the last 11 years. That's a kind of new-fangled notion
of "portable", not widely understood. But if I feel like writing
something that also runs on CMUCL and the rest, I will. Is there
something stopping me? Is there some mysterious invisible soup-nazi
hand that will reach out... "Oh, no, boy, you've been using non-ansi
tricks too long. Now, you are not allowed to write anything ansi.
No more ansi for you! Come back in 1 year."
I had a dream last night. It went something like this.
I fired up lisp and started doing all the things I love
to do in the listener...
[]> (+ 2 2)
4
After a bit of that, I typed in
[]> (load 'my-own-diffusion-advection-codes-I-wrote-myself-that-is-
nobody-elses-business-to-even-look-at-much-less-load-on-a-different-
implimentation)
But just as I was about to hit 'return', the devil
appeared and said: "DON'T DO IT!!! What you just wrote
isn't portable! Think of all the guys out there using CMUCL
who could use a great piece of 1-liner software like (load 'foo),
if only it was portable!!. And if you do hit return you'll never
be able to write ansi CL again!" "Damn, you," I say, "I'm just
typing shite into the listener, quit pestering me. And you ain't
gonna make me do it. If I wanna type something ansi, I will. If I
wanna type something not-ansi, I bloody hell will." "Oh no you
won't,"
says the devil, "I'll fix it so you CAN'T. I'm gonna mess with
people's heads and make them bury the -ansi switch deep in a
steaming pile of rotting emacs code. That'll teach you, boy,
/\/\Wahahaha!"
> There is already enough implementation dependant features
> in ANSI Common Lisp, there's no need to add more.
Well, nobody is suggesting that.
······@gmail.com writes:
> It doesn't. That's the kind of assumption emacs makes about people.
> Really dumb software like emacs shouldn't be making assumptions about
> the moral implications of programmer habits, the meaning of life, the
> effect of coding style on the future of mankind, and stuff like that.
I hate imposing on your rant, but the problem you have does not have
anything to do with Emacs. The GNU Emacs distribution does not include
slime, and probably never will.
As far as Slime is concerned, there is nothing in the Slime code to set
"-ansi" for CLISP. It is left to the user to set a value for
"inferior-lisp-program". This is explained in Slime's README file. My
configuration does not have an issue with (load 'foo), that you talk
about. When I use Slime with CLISP, I (indirectly) do:
(setq inferior-lisp-program "clisp -I -K full")
So as the first response to your message stated, this must be something
being done in the local site initialization file, by either your local
site administrator or whatever secondary source you got you Emacs+Slime
distribution.
--
Barry Fishman
On Aug 20, 9:11 pm, Barry Fishman <·············@acm.org> wrote:
> the problem you have does not have anything to do with Emacs.
Yes it does. Think of it this way.
You got some sicko Dr Frankenstein and a lot of
little Igors and Fritzes, his assistants. Like Santa
and his helpers. These guys rob graves and put together
one gross stinking monster. They get an arm from Bill,
and an eyeball from George, both no-so-recently deceased.
And so on. Frankie and the Igors tell you that their
rotting creation is really handy to have around,
especially if you need to so some heavy lifting. You,
deluded by the wiles of the devil, believe that line of
shite. Their gross-out creation raids your fridge, bites
your dog's head off, and craps on your kitchen floor. You
get the shotgun and put an end to it. You spend the
rest of the day invoking ritual curses on Frankenstein,
his demonic little elves, the monster, and all the
bits of dead guys splattered on the walls.
> As far as Slime is concerned, there is nothing in the Slime code to set
> "-ansi" for CLISP... So as the first response to your message stated,
> this must be something being done in the local site initialization file,
> by either your local site administrator
You seem like a nice lad but you definitely
got a touch of attention deficit. It would bode
ill for you if you were, say, in my grade 6 class.
The experts say Ritalin helps but I don't buy
into that. I think a sharp kick up the backside
works better. But we can't do that anymore.
See how the teaching profession has been nerfed?
They took away the one and only methodology
that works. In prior times I was the Man with
the Swift and Painful Hand. Fear, Terror and
Respect ruled. Now I'm just a clown with a
whiteboard marker.
Anyway if you scroll up to the earlier posts,
you'll see what I mean.
······@gmail.com wrote:
> You seem like a nice lad but you definitely
> got a touch of attention deficit. It would bode
> ill for you if you were, say, in my grade 6 class.
> The experts say Ritalin helps but I don't buy
> into that. I think a sharp kick up the backside
> works better. But we can't do that anymore.
> See how the teaching profession has been nerfed?
> They took away the one and only methodology
> that works. In prior times I was the Man with
> the Swift and Painful Hand. Fear, Terror and
> Respect ruled. Now I'm just a clown with a
> whiteboard marker.
>
> Anyway if you scroll up to the earlier posts,
> you'll see what I mean.
>
That you know as much about children and teaching as you do about Lisp?
kt
--
http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray
"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts
"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
- Fran Lebowitz
"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
- Tim Allen
······@gmail.com wrote:
> I wonder what other candidates they
> passed up. FILTH? PUKE? VOMIT? As if programmer
VOMIT is undoubtedly the version for vi. Someone should hack it up for
vim, would be a treat.
······@gmail.com writes:
>
> And what's with that "it's not ansi" nonsense? What's gonna happen if
> type something that's not ansi? Will I spontaneously combust? Will
> California sink into the ocean? Will Janis Joplin rise from the rave?
> Will Kent Pitman pay me a visit with a couple of ripped
> numbchuck-swinging enforcers and bust up my living-room? "Next time
> use -ansi or what happened to your TV and sofa is gonna happen to your
> face, boy."
Well, the developers of SLIME know that it will work when clisp is in
ANSI mode; they (presumably) know that it doesn't, or mightn't, work in
non-ANSI mode.
You're free to change it yourself, as you did--and it may even work.
--
Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl>
"Heisenberg may have slept here." --BSD fortune file
"Actually, we have scientifically determined that Heisenberg did indeed
sleep exactly here. However, we have no idea whatsoever just how fast
asleep he was." --Dave Aronson
······@gmail.com writes:
>
> They could have at least called it something cool
> like SLISAK: Superior Lisp Interactive Shaolin Ass-kick.
> That would have made my thankless job of brainwashing
> shiftless bums (students) into the virtues of Lisp a
> little easier. But no, it's SLIME. That's gonna go over
> well with a classroom full of dandruff-coated sawdust sacks.
> "Dah teech-ah wanz uz tah yooze slime. Hahahah whadda tool."
>
and you reckon the generation that talks about things that are really good
as being 'sick' or 'phat' are really going to find SLISAK better than
SLIME!
Rule of thumb when teaching 'kids'. Think of the coolest name you can, then
eliminate it from consideration. and try to think of the most revolting
opposite name and you will probably be a 'legend'!
WRT the ansi/non-ansi issue - last time I looked, clisp was not ANSI
compliant and SLIME works with clisp, so I don't think it should set the
-ansi flag. On the other hand, if I was teaching/introducing people to CL,
I'd introduce them to the ANSI form and let them work out the non-ansi,
non-standard implementation differences for themselves. Likely to cause a
lot less confusion or frustration that is more likely to discourage than
encourage.
Tim
--
Tim Cross
······@rapttech.com.au
There are two types of people in IT - those who do not manage what they
understand and those who do not understand what they manage.
On Aug 20, 2:50 pm, Tim Cross <······@rapttech.com.au> wrote:
> and you reckon the generation that talks about things that are really good
> as being 'sick' or 'phat' are really going to find SLISAK better than
> SLIME!
Yes, because kung-fu is cooler than bodily fluids.
> Rule of thumb when teaching 'kids'. Think of the coolest name you can, then
> eliminate it from consideration. and try to think of the most revolting
> opposite name and you will probably be a 'legend'!
I hear you.
That may be true for some things in sawdust-sack culture,
but I don't think it applies to stuff like cars, computers,
and skate-boards, which are supposed to be cool. A lexus Armpit
is not cool, no matter what it is. The latest Nvidia Douchebag
or Intel TinyNuts would not be worth bragging about to your friends.
"I use U-Ray to do the coding..." sounds pretty cool. "I use Emacs
GROIN."
does not. CL-SHiV sounds pretty good. CLD - the Common Lisp
Disemboweller and iExecutioner are also winners. CL-STENCH,
Emacs Psoriasis, WARTS, SLIME, Cl-FartZ, are all losers. In the case
of SLIME, it's not offensive enough to be rad (e.g., Emacs
ArseRaper),
and too geriatric to be cool (e.g., Emacs Rectum, CL-DROOL, CL-
SPITOON,
CL-SAUSAGE.). So basically it sucks.
I wonder if haskellers would get as excited over something called
Superior Haskell Interactive Toolbox Environment, i.e., SHITE?
On the other hand, SLIME may have one benefit: pre-empting the
only question sawdust-sacks are likely to ask, "duh, if Lisp is
so great, why does it say inferior lisp?"