Hi,
Being new to Lisp I see several choices to create a webapp and don't
have much of a basis to make a good decision. As far as I see it there
is:
apache + mod_lisp
AllegroServe
Hunchentoot
UCW
I feel like I'm missing some but where do I go from here? Build
something in all of them and evaluate? I don't have a ton of time so
if someone has already done that then maybe I can piggyback on their
research.
At this point all I need is a simple app that will allow login and
some simple CRUD operations on a small DB.
-- Byron
> Being new to Lisp I see several choices to create a webapp and don't
> have much of a basis to make a good decision. As far as I see it there
> is:
> apache + mod_lisp
> AllegroServe
> Hunchentoot
> UCW
BioBike/KnowOS is AllegroServe on ACL. It's been extremely stable and
multitasks well. When we've had problems (e.g., some issues with
multitasking) they've been resolved with Franz's help. I strongly
recommend a supported Lisp if you're going to build a real server:
ACL, LispWorks, or the the best-supported freelisp (which one would
that be?)
Other combinations may be just as stable, but we have no experience
with them.
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 22:35:06 +0200, ········@gmail.com
<········@gmail.com> wrote:
> ACL, LispWorks, or the the best-supported freelisp (which one would
> that be?)
SBCL seems to have the most active comunety and developement.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> SBCL seems to have the most active comunety and
> developement.
Rhetorically, I don't suppose that there's much chance of talking
everyone else into dropping their own versions and focusing on SBCL,
is there? (Yes, I know: See the 50,000 previous screaming sessions
where this idea was floated and sunk....thus "Rhetorically" at the
outset. :-)
·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>> SBCL seems to have the most active comunety and
>> developement.
>
> Rhetorically, I don't suppose that there's much chance of talking
> everyone else into dropping their own versions and focusing on SBCL,
> is there? (Yes, I know: See the 50,000 previous screaming sessions
> where this idea was floated and sunk....thus "Rhetorically" at the
> outset. :-)
If everyone did that and focused on SBCL, it would become a de facto
standard and then people wouldn't be able to complain about the
language spec being inadequate. And nobody wants that.
In article <··············@hermes.theari.com>,
Ari Johnson <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> ·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >> SBCL seems to have the most active comunety and
> >> developement.
> >
> > Rhetorically, I don't suppose that there's much chance of talking
> > everyone else into dropping their own versions and focusing on SBCL,
> > is there? (Yes, I know: See the 50,000 previous screaming sessions
> > where this idea was floated and sunk....thus "Rhetorically" at the
> > outset. :-)
>
> If everyone did that and focused on SBCL, it would become a de facto
> standard and then people wouldn't be able to complain about the
> language spec being inadequate. And nobody wants that.
After some time SBCL would get very large with lots of
code. Then somebody would throw out 'complicated' stuff and
create a fork of SBCL with a new name. Then we have
another cycle of software death and reincarnation.
--
http://lispm.dyndns.org
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:54:30 +0200, byronsalty <··········@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Being new to Lisp I see several choices to create a webapp and don't
> have much of a basis to make a good decision. As far as I see it there
> is:
> apache + mod_lisp
> AllegroServe
> Hunchentoot
> UCW
>
> I feel like I'm missing some but where do I go from here? Build
> something in all of them and evaluate? I don't have a ton of time so
> if someone has already done that then maybe I can piggyback on their
> research.
>
> At this point all I need is a simple app that will allow login and
> some simple CRUD operations on a small DB.
>
> -- Byron
>
For one thing it might be a idea to use apache and mod_lisp
in any case against either of alternatives.
You can also set the Lisp server up a proxy server.
For CRUD either of the alternatives will do.
Mostly familiar with Allegro serve and Hunchentoot.
Either will do the job so just pick one.
I use:
Apache, LispWorks with Hunchentoot as a proxy server.
CL-EMB
CLSQL
MySQL
All under windows Xp (for now, probably free-BSD on the web.)
(If you use LispWorks use the starter-pack from Edi Weitz
which downloads most libraries you will need (not cl-emb))
(I prefer LispWorks and since Edi developed Hunchentoot under LispWorks
and also tested all the support libries under LispWorks I use that. If I
used ACL I would
use Allegro serve I suppose. For the other compilers it dosn't make much of
a difference I think.)
Both have session management.
ActionScript, which comes with (Portable) Alegro serve, and cl-emb, which
I use with Hunchentoot,
allow integrating HTML and Lisp (same as ASP, JSP approx)
Just using mod_lisp leaves you to do it all the work yourself.
You mentioned UCW.
You didnt mention cl-http or KPAX.
Don't have much experience with these.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
(message (Hello 'byronsalty)
(you :wrote :on '(14 Apr 2007 09:54:30 -0700))
(
b> apache + mod_lisp
b> AllegroServe
b> Hunchentoot
b> UCW
b> I don't have a ton of time so
b> if someone has already done that then maybe I can piggyback on their
b> research.
i've evaluated three of above and then i've wrote my own kinda web-server
:).
i didn't evaluate Hunchentoot, but i suspect it might be a best choise for
now. documentation and examples look very sane, and it's developed by Edi
Weitz.
apache + mod_lisp is to low-level thing.
AllegroServe looks somewhat glitchy (in my superstisious opinion), and it
might work not well with non-allegro
UCW uses CLOS advanced stuff too heavily -- it looks very complex, and it's
development is kinda chaotic -- for a long time there were no stable
supported versions, so you could either get some very old stuff that doesn't
have features you want, or very new that doesn't work at all.
you might also check KPAX -- their examples look fine.
b> I feel like I'm missing some but where do I go from here? Build
b> something in all of them and evaluate?
i think you can create hello-world-like applications in a few hours on each
of these 'web-servers', so you can find optimal one in a day or so.
if one takes more than few hours to setup, you can ignore it :).
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"I am everything you want and I am everything you need")
On Apr 14, 2:56 pm, "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
> i think you can create hello-world-like applications in a few hours on each
> of these 'web-servers', so you can find optimal one in a day or so.
> if one takes more than few hours to setup, you can ignore it :).
>
Thanks for the responses. I guess it's time to just test a few out and
see which suits me best.
"Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net> writes:
> AllegroServe looks somewhat glitchy (in my superstisious opinion), and it
> might work not well with non-allegro
I've been using Portable AllegroServe under CMUCL for several years:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/5fa1e81aa5586528
Petter
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> Being new to Lisp I see several choices to create a webapp and don't
> have much of a basis to make a good decision. As far as I see it there
> is:
> apache + mod_lisp
> AllegroServe
> Hunchentoot
> UCW
Even though it's a bit dated, Bill Clementson wrote a good overview of
the possible approaches: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/041017.html
Clementson also posted several follow-ups that are worth reading, once
you get through the initial post:
http://bc.tech.coop/blog/041105.html
http://bc.tech.coop/blog/041111.html
http://bc.tech.coop/blog/050714.html
http://bc.tech.coop/blog/050908.html
Also, for a comprehensive list of resources, take a look at
http://www.cl-user.net/asp/tags/web-servers
On Apr 14, 6:54 pm, "byronsalty" <··········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Being new to Lisp I see several choices to create a webapp and don't
> have much of a basis to make a good decision. As far as I see it there
> is:
> apache + mod_lisp
> AllegroServe
> Hunchentoot
> UCW
>
> I feel like I'm missing some but where do I go from here? Build
> something in all of them and evaluate? I don't have a ton of time so
> if someone has already done that then maybe I can piggyback on their
> research.
>
> At this point all I need is a simple app that will allow login and
> some simple CRUD operations on a small DB.
>
> -- Byron
I didn't tried any of the alternatives (especially KPAX looks
interesthing)
but hunchentoot +cl-who + clsql might be the fastest thing you could
learn
and make something usable , if you're lisp skills are Ok 2-3 full
days,
and if you're beginner work with lispworks and starter pack, later
when you
gain experience you could transfer it to any other lisp you want.
I made a small demo with basic bookkeeping and admininistration of
privileges in
about 12 days (where 8 of them i worked only after job) . Today i
hope
to polish a little bit and maybe add blog ability, tomorrow i have to
show it.
bobi
"byronsalty" <··········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> I feel like I'm missing some but where do I go from here? Build
> something in all of them and evaluate? I don't have a ton of time so
> if someone has already done that then maybe I can piggyback on their
> research.
>
> At this point all I need is a simple app that will allow login and
> some simple CRUD operations on a small DB.
I'm building a small framework based on the ideas in Django, using
Hunchentoot, CLSQL CL-EMB & CL-PPCRE. It's actually pretty easy to do what you
want on top of Hunchentoot; you'll end up writing your own framework to
do what you want.
Hunchentoot provides the basic abstractions you need: requests &
responses; GET & POST parameters; sessions; cookies. On top of that
you'll layer your own stuff.
Figure out your URL structure, then set up handlers for the URLs; each
handler can talk to the database and do what needs to be done. The next
step, of course, is to abstract away some of the busy work you might be
doing every time (say, grabbing a database connexion from a pool)--then
the busy-work function handles each request, and it calls the specific
function needed.
The next step after that is to abstract away the process of associating
URLs, the busy work function and the particular functions needing for
each action.
It's really remarkably simple. My own site is running at
<http://latakia.dyndns.org/tasting-notes/>, although I should note
that's both development & production, so it may be down while I toy with
stuff:-)
--
Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl>
I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have
not lost a man. The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion,
otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword if the fort is taken.
I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves
proudly from the walls. I shall never surrender nor retreat.
--William B. Travis
Should you wish to use Scheme instead of CL, try the PLT Web server
and SQLite.
http://docs.plt-scheme.org/web-server/
http://www.scheme.dk/blog/2007/01/introduction-to-web-development-with.html
http://jay.teammccarthy.org/download/khmgpf-impl-use-plt-web-server-journal.pdf