From: Ken Tilton
Subject: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <UB8Qh.13$cD2.2@newsfe12.lga>
Kudos to Sven Van Caekenberghe and Amazon for their joint project, 
cl-s3. I feel like they just saved me a month (never mind producing a 
vastly better solution).

The plan is to get kids hooked on levelling up in Algebra instead of 
World of Warcraft, and if it works we want them seeking "fixes" day and 
night: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/

I think I would have beaten Algebra I by Christmas. :)

kzo


-- 

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
    - Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
    - Tim Allen

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/

From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <jI8Qh.15$cD2.2@newsfe12.lga>
Ken Tilton wrote:
> Kudos to Sven Van Caekenberghe and Amazon for their joint project, 
> cl-s3. I feel like they just saved me a month (never mind producing a 
> vastly better solution).
> 
> The plan is to get kids hooked on levelling up in Algebra instead of 

er, make that "as well as" :)

> World of Warcraft, and if it works we want them seeking "fixes" day and 
> night: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
> 
> I think I would have beaten Algebra I by Christmas. :)
> 
> kzo
> 
> 

-- 

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
    - Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
    - Tim Allen

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: ··@frank-buss.de
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <1175541569.201697.140150@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>
On 2 Apr., 16:40, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
> Kudos to Sven Van Caekenberghe and Amazon for their joint project,
> cl-s3. I feel like they just saved me a month (never mind producing a
> vastly better solution).

You mean this project?

http://homepage.mac.com/svc/cl-s3/index.html

Looks interesting and I think the fees are not too high, if it is
reliable.

> The plan is to get kids hooked on levelling up in Algebra instead of
> World of Warcraft, and if it works we want them seeking "fixes" day and
> night:http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/

I don't know if you are at the conference, but there was an
interesting talk about teaching computer science to undergraduates:

http://tinyurl.com/2uldzw

They implemented a software, with which you can provide a detailed
feedback and score for a programming solutions of a student and which
helps to test, if the student understood the concepts. If the
solutions were too bad, teachers could be notified and they have a
simple but clever algorithm to detect plagiarism, which I won't
explain here in public. All solutions are stored in a database, too,
and can be used for datamining and detecting common problems.

Did you thought about extending your learning program to other domains
than just mathematics?

Now I'll try Cells again, someone at the conference told me it is
worth to look at it again. Did you fix the examples? Where is a good
starting point for it?

--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <AzjQh.852$pv4.437@newsfe12.lga>
··@frank-buss.de wrote:
> On 2 Apr., 16:40, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
> 
>>Kudos to Sven Van Caekenberghe and Amazon for their joint project,
>>cl-s3. I feel like they just saved me a month (never mind producing a
>>vastly better solution).
> 
> 
> You mean this project?
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/svc/cl-s3/index.html
> 
> Looks interesting and I think the fees are not too high, if it is
> reliable.

I ain't storing much data, so in this case it is effectively free. 
Reliable? My guess is I am automatically inheriting the reliability 
supporting Amazon itself. ie, they did not create S3 by writing new 
code, they carved it out of the infrastructure of Amazon.

> 
> 
>>The plan is to get kids hooked on levelling up in Algebra instead of
>>World of Warcraft, and if it works we want them seeking "fixes" day and
>>night:http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
> 
> 
> I don't know if you are at the conference, but there was an
> interesting talk about teaching computer science to undergraduates:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/2uldzw
> 
> They implemented a software, with which you can provide a detailed
> feedback and score for a programming solutions of a student and which
> helps to test, if the student understood the concepts. If the
> solutions were too bad, teachers could be notified and they have a
> simple but clever algorithm to detect plagiarism, which I won't
> explain here in public. All solutions are stored in a database, too,
> and can be used for datamining and detecting common problems.
> 
> Did you thought about extending your learning program to other domains
> than just mathematics?

Absaloodly. But Algebra alone will make me so wealthy I can afford 
bartender school tuition, so don't look for much.

> 
> Now I'll try Cells again, someone at the conference told me it is
> worth to look at it again.

You might be on the wrong floor. Any yobbo can tell you that Cells is a 
pigment of my imagination.

> Did you fix the examples? 

I offered examples? Good for me!

> Where is a good
> starting point for it?

It's a paradigm shift, search on "SETF". ie, it is the wrong question. 
You invented a nail gun? Cool. How do I get started? Find some wood.

I started with GUI, the view. That is a classic case of one thing 
affecting another, and lotsa bugs arising from failure to propagate 
change. When the light went on I tried it with the model.

kzo

-- 

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
    - Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
    - Tim Allen

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: ··@frank-buss.de
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <1175603372.103043.256290@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
On 3 Apr., 05:09, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:

> Absaloodly. But Algebra alone will make me so wealthy I can afford
> bartender school tuition, so don't look for much.

How expensive is a bartender school tuition?

> You might be on the wrong floor. Any yobbo can tell you that Cells is a
> pigment of my imagination.

The problem is that there are multiple pigments: The page on
http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/ links to your old page for the
documentation, which links back to the same page and says that the
documentation is on the Common Lisp page. Nice idea to avoid writing
up-to-date documentation :-)

> > Where is a good
> > starting point for it?
>
> It's a paradigm shift, search on "SETF". ie, it is the wrong question.
> You invented a nail gun? Cool. How do I get started? Find some wood.

What I meant was where to start reading how to use cells. I think I
understand the paradigm. But I wanted to avoid the experience of
another guy on the conference, who needed 4 hours just to figure out
the right syntax to run an outdated example (cool, looks like at least
2 of the 5 people, who are using Cells, are at the conference :-)

Ok, for now I've downloaded http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/asdf-install/cells_2.0.tar.gz
and trying to make some sense of it.

> I started with GUI, the view. That is a classic case of one thing
> affecting another, and lotsa bugs arising from failure to propagate
> change. When the light went on I tried it with the model.

Yes, that's another reason why I want to look at it, because I've done
some Java and C++ applications, which does some error-prone GUI
updates, related to model changes, which I hope could be automated
with a constraints based system. Maybe a Cells-C++ and Cells-Java
would be a good idea then, too.

--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <1uvQh.17$SY4.8@newsfe12.lga>
> The problem is that there are multiple pigments: The page on
> http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/ links to your old page for the
> documentation, which links back to the same page and says that the
> documentation is on the Common Lisp page. Nice idea to avoid writing
> up-to-date documentation :-)

Thanks, I'm real proud of that one. But the working links here have 
useful info, as does cells-mainfesto.txt in the intro. Ignore syntax 
since those have bit rot, then....

I see you like the GUI-first idea. I suggest grabbing Celtk or 
Cells-Gtk, which both come with elaborate working examples that 
specifically show how to get one widget to stay in synch with another.

Celtk is better because Cells-Gtk is like in the Cells 1.0 or something 
stone age.

> Yes, that's another reason why I want to look at it, because I've done
> some Java and C++ applications, which does some error-prone GUI
> updates, related to model changes, which I hope could be automated
> with a constraints based system. Maybe a Cells-C++ and Cells-Java
> would be a good idea then, too.

I have played with proof of concepts for both. And there is a PyCells 
out there somewhere.

kt

-- 

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
    - Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
    - Tim Allen

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: ··@frank-buss.de
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <1175628414.573114.158390@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>
On 3 Apr., 18:42, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
> > Maybe a Cells-C++ and Cells-Java
> > would be a good idea then, too.
>
> I have played with proof of concepts for both. And there is a PyCells
> out there somewhere.

Can you show some code? I think in C++ it could be simplified with
templates (at least for the application programmer, not the one who
has to write the templates :-)  , but in Java I can't imagine how it
could be implemented in a way that applications, which uses the
concept, are looking good and short.

--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <oJzQh.222$xa6.150@newsfe12.lga>
··@frank-buss.de wrote:
> On 3 Apr., 18:42, Ken Tilton <····@theoryyalgebra.com> wrote:
> 
>>>Maybe a Cells-C++ and Cells-Java
>>>would be a good idea then, too.
>>
>>I have played with proof of concepts for both. And there is a PyCells
>>out there somewhere.
> 
> 
> Can you show some code? I think in C++ it could be simplified with
> templates (at least for the application programmer, not the one who
> has to write the templates :-)  , but in Java I can't imagine how it
> could be implemented in a way that applications, which uses the
> concept, are looking good and short.

When in Rome, look like a Roman. I just went for the dataflow, not the 
succintness nor the transparency. Java programmers would not even notice 
if something looked bad and long any more than fish notice all the damn 
water. Anonymous classes subsituted for lambdas. No idea where that code 
is now, on a Mac somewhere I imagine.

kt

-- 

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
    - Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
    - Tim Allen

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <0aAQh.226$xa6.23@newsfe12.lga>
··@frank-buss.de wrote:

> What I meant was where to start reading how to use cells. I think I
> understand the paradigm. But I wanted to avoid the experience of
> another guy on the conference, who needed 4 hours just to figure out
> the right syntax to run an outdated example

Ah, someone Worthy of Cells.

> (cool, looks like at least
> 2 of the 5 people, who are using Cells, are at the conference :-)

They must take separate flights home, and should not eat the same food. 
If we drop below four it is over.

kt

-- 

"As long as algebra is taught in school,
there will be prayer in school." - Cokie Roberts

"Stand firm in your refusal to remain conscious during algebra."
    - Fran Lebowitz

"I'm an algebra liar. I figure two good lies make a positive."
    - Tim Allen

"Algebra is the metaphysics of arithmetic." - John Ray

http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
From: Frank Goenninger DG1SBG
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <lztzvxifpi.fsf@pcsde001.de.goenninger.net>
··@frank-buss.de writes:

> Ok, for now I've downloaded http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/asdf-install/cells_2.0.tar.gz
> and trying to make some sense of it.

Hi Frank,

most probably the CVS contents work as expected:

CVS ROOT is on common-lisp.net:/project/cells/cvsroot

You have to look up how to do anonymous access, though (I don't have
that info, since I have a direct account on c-l.net).

It *is* worth the effort... Both Cells itself and CVS access ;-)

Best,
   Frank DG1SBG
From: Jens Axel Søgaard
Subject: Re: cl-s3: so far, so amazing
Date: 
Message-ID: <46347e34$0$23930$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Ken Tilton skrev:

> Reliable? My guess is I am automatically inheriting the reliability 
> supporting Amazon itself. ie, they did not create S3 by writing new 
> code, they carved it out of the infrastructure of Amazon.

I am interested in learning about the reliability in Europe.
As I understand it most Amazon datacenters is in located in
the US. Any thoughts?

-- 
Jens Axel S�gaard