Hello,
I would like to start my first productive lisp project ;).
I have to admit, that, up to now, I am limited to use free
implementations & libs (linux & win).
The aim is to do percolation analysis (putting objects into a cube and
looking for a closed path from one surface to another).
At current state, I am using tcl3d for 3d visualization.
How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
Can lispbuilder-sdl(-gfx) do the job? I only found 2d examples ...
Thanks for hints, urls, ...
Bernd
Bernd Schmitt wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to start my first productive lisp project ;).
> I have to admit, that, up to now, I am limited to use free
> implementations & libs (linux & win).
>
> The aim is to do percolation analysis (putting objects into a cube and
> looking for a closed path from one surface to another).
> At current state, I am using tcl3d for 3d visualization.
> How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
> Can lispbuilder-sdl(-gfx) do the job? I only found 2d examples ...
haha, 3d is hard! :) Seriously, once the demo shows an OpenGL context,
the rest is up to you anyway unless.... are you hoping for a
higher-level API to grease the skids on the visualization? Raw OpenGL is
certainly a pain.
My Celtk package (currently still just a subdir under my Cells package)
offers a Tcl/Tk togl widget (the C innards of Tcl3d). I think it would
be fairly easy to automate somethings using Cells (they were invented
for "smart" GUI layout).
fwiw... kt
>
>
> Thanks for hints, urls, ...
> Bernd
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Thanks for your answer,
On 16.10.2006 15:28, Ken Tilton wrote:
> Bernd Schmitt wrote:
>> At current state, I am using tcl3d for 3d visualization.
>> How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
>> Can lispbuilder-sdl(-gfx) do the job? I only found 2d examples ...
> My Celtk package (currently still just a subdir under my Cells package)
> offers a Tcl/Tk togl widget (the C innards of Tcl3d). I think it would
> be fairly easy to automate somethings using Cells (they were invented
> for "smart" GUI layout).
Thanks for the hint, I will need some time to figure this out.
It is like so often with me and lisp. Lisp is so much fun to code, but
then I face a wall (gui, graphics, sound, networking) and there is an
tcl/tk ladder - not so nice but easy to use and working well ...
So I end up in a mix of lisp & tcl/tk :/
After all, I substitute C/C++ with lisp ;)
Ciao,
Bernd
Bernd Schmitt wrote:
> Thanks for your answer,
>
>
> On 16.10.2006 15:28, Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>Bernd Schmitt wrote:
>
>
>>>At current state, I am using tcl3d for 3d visualization.
>>>How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
>>>Can lispbuilder-sdl(-gfx) do the job? I only found 2d examples ...
>
>
>>My Celtk package (currently still just a subdir under my Cells package)
>>offers a Tcl/Tk togl widget (the C innards of Tcl3d). I think it would
>>be fairly easy to automate somethings using Cells (they were invented
>>for "smart" GUI layout).
>
> Thanks for the hint, I will need some time to figure this out.
>
> It is like so often with me and lisp. Lisp is so much fun to code, but
> then I face a wall (gui, graphics, sound, networking) and there is an
> tcl/tk ladder - not so nice but easy to use and working well ...
> So I end up in a mix of lisp & tcl/tk :/
> After all, I substitute C/C++ with lisp ;)
That is the right way to go, actually. My Cello package includes OpenAL,
GraphicsMagick, and FTGL for anti-aliased fonts, and now that it is
based on Tcl/Tk/Togl you also get Snack (realtime audio synthesis) and
every other Tcl/Tk library for free. Portably.
McCLIM, R.I.P.
:)
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Ken Tilton ha escrito:
> That is the right way to go, actually. My Cello package includes OpenAL,
> GraphicsMagick, and FTGL for anti-aliased fonts, and now that it is
> based on Tcl/Tk/Togl you also get Snack (realtime audio synthesis) and
> every other Tcl/Tk library for free. Portably.
It seems that finally you are doing some work. But
ftp://common-lisp.net/pub/project/cello/ seems to do not work
currently. Is there any site from which we can download it?
Bernd Schmitt wrote:
> Hello,
>
> At current state, I am using tcl3d for 3d visualization.
> How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
> Can lispbuilder-sdl(-gfx) do the job? I only found 2d examples ...
Lispbuilder-openrm provides bindings to the OpenRM scene graph manager.
SVN only at the moment though.
Lispbuilder-opengl also provides OpenGL bindings. But these are a
little deprecated in favour of CL-OPENGL as the Lisp world doesn't
really need another set of poorly maintained OpenGL bindings.
See http://www.balooga.com/lispbuilder.php3
- Luke
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:17:00 +0200, Bernd Schmitt
<··················@gmx.net> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to start my first productive lisp project ;).
> I have to admit, that, up to now, I am limited to use free
> implementations & libs (linux & win).
>
> The aim is to do percolation analysis (putting objects into a cube and
> looking for a closed path from one surface to another).
> At current state, I am using tcl3d for 3d visualization.
> How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
> Can lispbuilder-sdl(-gfx) do the job? I only found 2d examples ...
>
>
> Thanks for hints, urls, ...
> Bernd
Well Ken showed a way to do it in OpenGL.
Another in Windows is with .NET using the .NET interface to DirectX.
DirectX is available at
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.mspx
You would need Edi Weitz's .net library RDNZL.
http://weitz.de/rdnzl/
I have used the DirectX .net interface in C#, but haven't tried it from
Lisp yet.
I would probably prototype it in C# and once I had the basics translate it
to RDNZL.
Visual C# express is available for free at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Bernd Schmitt wrote:
> How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
In addition to the other reasonable suggestions posted, you
might also consider using VRML (which seems out of vogue, and
which seems to have been absorbed into Java-3D, but there are
still VRML rendering engines available for free).
Somewhere I have some packages to pprint VRML to a rendering
agent in a browser, but this isn't difficult to write. If VRML
fills your needs... See http://www.web3d.org/
On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 12:17:00PM +0200, Bernd Schmitt wrote:
> How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
I'm still dreaming of a common lisp binding for OpenSceneGraph.
Daniel Trstenjak wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 12:17:00PM +0200, Bernd Schmitt wrote:
> > How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
>
> I'm still dreaming of a common lisp binding for OpenSceneGraph.
http://www.hitlabnz.org/people/hse25/osgbindings.html
Then use SWIG CFFI generation and see how far you get.
- Luke
Luke Crook wrote:
> Daniel Trstenjak wrote:
>
>>On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 12:17:00PM +0200, Bernd Schmitt wrote:
>>
>>>How can i do 3d visualization in lisp?
>>
>>I'm still dreaming of a common lisp binding for OpenSceneGraph.
>
>
> http://www.hitlabnz.org/people/hse25/osgbindings.html
>
> Then use SWIG CFFI generation and see how far you get.
As long as you like the GPL, or want to haggle with the author for a
diff license.
When the hell is some yobbo gonna finish verrazano?
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Luke Crook wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>When the hell is some yobbo gonna finish verrazano?
>
>
> Pfft. SWIG all the way.
You do not know either SWIG or verrazano. I am betting on the latter.
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>
> Luke Crook wrote:
>> Pfft. SWIG all the way.
>
> You do not know either SWIG or verrazano. I am betting on the latter.
>
Yes, I regularly use SWIG to build CFFI bindings. I briefly looked at
verranzano a while back but it seemed like it was abandoned.
- Luke
Luke J Crook wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>
>>Luke Crook wrote:
>>
>>>Pfft. SWIG all the way.
>>
>>You do not know either SWIG or verrazano. I am betting on the latter.
>>
>
>
> Yes, I regularly use SWIG to build CFFI bindings.
After a ridiculously arduous effort compared with..
> I briefly looked at
> verranzano a while back but it seemed like it was abandoned.
...explaining why I was hoping some yobbo would resurrect it. <sigh> It
kicks SWIG's ass, if you have to know. <sigh>
You yobs might want to ... oh, what's the use? Lisp is dying. The next
generation of Lispniks is over on #lisp worshipping themselves and
learning nothing and achieving less. My god, another two years and Slime
may be half the power of the ACL IDE. What is the word I am looking
for... ah, here it is: PFFFFFFFT!
hth, kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Ken Tilton wrote:
> You yobs might want to ... oh, what's the use? Lisp is dying. The next
> generation of Lispniks is over on #lisp worshipping themselves and
> learning nothing and achieving less.
There is no low hanging fruit left on the Lisp tree. There are few
stepladders. The tree is in the back garden of a scary old house owned
by a man who the neighborhood kids say eats children.
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:59:09 +0200, Luke J Crook <····@balooga.com> wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>> You yobs might want to ... oh, what's the use? Lisp is dying. The next
>> generation of Lispniks is over on #lisp worshipping themselves and
>> learning nothing and achieving less.
>
> There is no low hanging fruit left on the Lisp tree. There are few
> stepladders. The tree is in the back garden of a scary old house owned
> by a man who the neighborhood kids say eats children.
>
>
naw, only trolls
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Ken Tilton wrote:
> Luke J Crook wrote:
> > Ken Tilton wrote:
> ...explaining why I was hoping some yobbo would resurrect it. <sigh> It
> kicks SWIG's ass, if you have to know. <sigh>
Yes, I think that good libraries are worth knowing about. I have no
problem redoing the bindings for lispbulder-sdl, *-sdl_gfx, *-image,
*-mixer, *-ttf, *-ode, *-openrm and *-cal3d using verrazano if it does
a better job at creating CFFI bindings than SWIG.
- Luke
Luke Crook wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>Luke J Crook wrote:
>>
>>>Ken Tilton wrote:
>>
>>...explaining why I was hoping some yobbo would resurrect it. <sigh> It
>>kicks SWIG's ass, if you have to know. <sigh>
>
>
> Yes, I think that good libraries are worth knowing about. I have no
> problem redoing the bindings for lispbulder-sdl, *-sdl_gfx, *-image,
> *-mixer, *-ttf, *-ode, *-openrm and *-cal3d using verrazano if it does
> a better job at creating CFFI bindings than SWIG.
Not sure there is any value in redoing working bindings. The win would
be for the next library (Mastenbrook can tell you, you can never have
enough libraries).
The vzn design imperative was that one would not have to redo the
bindings, one would just cobble together a 10-20 line macro and aim
verrazano at the C headers (with GCC_XML playing the translator). Redo,
yeah, but in a lights-out, hands-off, stand-back-and-smile way.
This much worked for a couple of C libraries I tested, but verrazano
also had aspirations of doing Very Useful Things with C++ classes. I
believe Rayiner got something going with GCC but still needed to cover VC++.
Also, to the extent that added value ("oh, that is an 'out' arg") exists
in language-independent SWIG definitions, future work was going to be to
parse those in Lisp to leverage all that extra info programmatically
rather than redo all the hints manually.
Unfortuantely, rayiner Just Disappeared (in re vzn) shortly after
SoC2005, and everyone is worse-is-bettering with Swig. What a waste.
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon