OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
my eyes.
Some features that I would like to see, but I wouldn't make that huge
of a fuss if I didn't get them:
1. A simple IDE for creating, compiling, and running Lisp programs.
2. Some documentation for all the wonderful LISP features; I already
have a vague idea of how LISP works, but documentation is always nice.
3. An interactive session (you enter code and receive output on the
fly; I realize this is the least likely feature - that's why I put it
last).
How should a dummy go about installing LISP, with the previously
mentioned features on the top of the priority list?
Please be patient with me; remember, we're pretending I'm a dummy
(hopefully a soon-to-be newbie).
"Dustan" <············@gmail.com> writes:
> OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
> Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
> similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
> my eyes.
Being an ignorant novice is no shame; everybody starts new things
knowing virtually nothing. On the other hand, being a dummy is a bit
silly.
> Some features that I would like to see, but I wouldn't make that huge
> of a fuss if I didn't get them:
> 1. A simple IDE for creating, compiling, and running Lisp programs.
These steps are usually heavily intermixed in development. You you can
create, compile, and run things with very fine granularity.
> 2. Some documentation for all the wonderful LISP features; I already
> have a vague idea of how LISP works, but documentation is always nice.
http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a very nice book for learning
Common Lisp. Peter Norvig's Paradigms of AI Programming is also very
nice. Even if you have little interest in AI Programming, you will
learn a lot of widely-applicable Common Lisp techniques from PAIP.
> 3. An interactive session (you enter code and receive output on the
> fly; I realize this is the least likely feature - that's why I put it
> last).
How did you come to this realization? Interactive development is the
norm in Lisp, not the exception.
> How should a dummy go about installing LISP, with the previously
> mentioned features on the top of the priority list?
Try this:
http://weitz.de/starter-pack/
There's also the LispWorks Personal Edition upon which the starter
pack is built:
http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/index.html
And the Allegro CL Free Express Edition:
http://www.franz.com/downloads/
Corman Lisp also has a free download:
http://cormanlisp.com/download.html
> Please be patient with me; remember, we're pretending I'm a dummy
> (hopefully a soon-to-be newbie).
It's no fun helping dummies, but lots of fun helping novices when they
learn and grow. Avoid preconceptions, be honest about what you know
and don't know, accept new information, make connections where you
can, and try to do your best. I encourage you to abandon the "dummy"
technique of deflecting criticism.
Zach
Just a quick response:
Zach Beane wrote:
> "Dustan" <············@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
> > Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
> > similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
> > my eyes.
>
> Being an ignorant novice is no shame; everybody starts new things
> knowing virtually nothing. On the other hand, being a dummy is a bit
> silly.
Admittedly, yes, it is silly. But on some newsgroups, it's the only way
to win, or at least one of very few ways to win.
The point I was making was that I didn't want an intensive process for
installing; plain and simple magical works just fine for me (ie let
someone else do all the work). I don't know whether the point got
across, but I certainly got the intended result - some answers, for a
change.
On 22 Nov 2006 08:54:17 -0800, "Dustan" <············@gmail.com> tried to
confuse everyone with this message:
>3. An interactive session (you enter code and receive output on the
>fly; I realize this is the least likely feature - that's why I put it
>last).
Actually this is a feature that you are guaranteed to get with every Lisp around
here :)
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> On 22 Nov 2006 08:54:17 -0800, "Dustan" <············@gmail.com> tried to
> confuse everyone with this message:
>
> >3. An interactive session (you enter code and receive output on the
> >fly; I realize this is the least likely feature - that's why I put it
> >last).
>
> Actually this is a feature that you are guaranteed to get with every Lisp around
> here :)
>
> --
> |Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
> |It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
> |But we can take them on! | @ma |
> | (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Just goes to show how ignorant I am...
I went with Rainer Joswig's suggestion of lispworks. So far, no
complaints. Thank all of you for your suggestions.
Am 22.11.2006 17:54 Uhr schrieb "Dustan" unter <············@gmail.com> in
························@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
> Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
> similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
> my eyes.
>
> Some features that I would like to see, but I wouldn't make that huge
> of a fuss if I didn't get them:
> 1. A simple IDE for creating, compiling, and running Lisp programs.
> 2. Some documentation for all the wonderful LISP features; I already
> have a vague idea of how LISP works, but documentation is always nice.
> 3. An interactive session (you enter code and receive output on the
> fly; I realize this is the least likely feature - that's why I put it
> last).
>
> How should a dummy go about installing LISP, with the previously
> mentioned features on the top of the priority list?
>
> Please be patient with me; remember, we're pretending I'm a dummy
> (hopefully a soon-to-be newbie).
>
LispWorks Personal Edition...
http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/index.html
Dustan schrieb:
> OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
> Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
> similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
> my eyes.
>
> Some features that I would like to see, but I wouldn't make that huge
> of a fuss if I didn't get them:
> 1. A simple IDE for creating, compiling, and running Lisp programs.
> 2. Some documentation for all the wonderful LISP features; I already
> have a vague idea of how LISP works, but documentation is always nice.
> 3. An interactive session (you enter code and receive output on the
> fly; I realize this is the least likely feature - that's why I put it
> last).
Visit http://www.franz.com/ and download the free Express Edition.
It is ready for web programming. You have a lisp based webserver,
MVC framework, SOAP (for webservices), SSL, DB connectivity,
Multithreading, etc...
I think Point 3 is what every Lisp implementation offers.
This feature is the most likely one to find in a Lisp.
Andr�
--
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:54:17 -0800, Dustan wrote:
> OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
> Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
> similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
> my eyes.
I use Cygwin and CLISP for this - at least for now until SBCL is less
alphaish on Windows.
Just download the Cygwin `setup.exe', select mirror and then click `View'
until you've got the "Full view" for better browsing of packages.
> Some features that I would like to see, but I wouldn't make that huge
> of a fuss if I didn't get them:
> 1. A simple IDE for creating, compiling, and running Lisp programs.
Emacs + Slime. You get Emacs via Cygwin. Slime is easy to download
with CVS; you get CVS via Cygwin again.
> 2. Some documentation for all the wonderful LISP features; I already
> have a vague idea of how LISP works, but documentation is always nice.
Download the Hyperspec and the Slime manual. There are many free
Lisp-books out there.
> 3. An interactive session (you enter code and receive output on the
> fly; I realize this is the least likely feature - that's why I put it
> last).
Without the REPL there is no Lisp; what you mention here is more or
less standard in the form of Emacs+Slime.
..if you find this a bit too much; others in this thread have mentioned
some quick ways to get up and running using Lisp-in-a-box and/or the
commercial demo-alternatives.
--
Lars Rune Nøstdal
http://lars.nostdal.org/
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:58:37 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?q?Lars_Rune_N=F8stdal?=
<···········@gmail.com> tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:54:17 -0800, Dustan wrote:
>
>> OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
>> Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
>> similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
>> my eyes.
>
>I use Cygwin and CLISP for this - at least for now until SBCL is less
>alphaish on Windows.
>
>Just download the Cygwin `setup.exe', select mirror and then click `View'
>until you've got the "Full view" for better browsing of packages.
>
>> Some features that I would like to see, but I wouldn't make that huge
>> of a fuss if I didn't get them:
>> 1. A simple IDE for creating, compiling, and running Lisp programs.
>
>Emacs + Slime. You get Emacs via Cygwin. Slime is easy to download
>with CVS; you get CVS via Cygwin again.
>
I don't understand this. What is the point of using Cygwin for CLISP and Emacs
when there are native versions, which are presumably faster and better
integrated with underlying OS. Is there any advantage in using Cygwin (except
for the geek points)?
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> I don't understand this. What is the point of using Cygwin for CLISP and Emacs
> when there are native versions, which are presumably faster and better
> integrated with underlying OS. Is there any advantage in using Cygwin (except
> for the geek points)?
Certainly. With Cygwin, you can much more easily port CLISP programs
which use POSIX C library functions through the FFI.
It depends on whether you want to write a POSIX application using
CLISP, or a Windows application.
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:39:26 +0000, Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:58:37 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?q?Lars_Rune_N=F8stdal?=
> <···········@gmail.com> tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>
>>On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:54:17 -0800, Dustan wrote:
>>
>>> OK, let's pretend for a moment that I am a dummy. I want to install
>>> Common Lisp for a Windows XP machine. Preferably a simple MSI or
>>> similar that I can just download, run and watch the magic happen before
>>> my eyes.
>>
>>I use Cygwin and CLISP for this - at least for now until SBCL is less
>>alphaish on Windows.
>>
>>Just download the Cygwin `setup.exe', select mirror and then click `View'
>>until you've got the "Full view" for better browsing of packages.
>>
>>> Some features that I would like to see, but I wouldn't make that huge
>>> of a fuss if I didn't get them:
>>> 1. A simple IDE for creating, compiling, and running Lisp programs.
>>
>>Emacs + Slime. You get Emacs via Cygwin. Slime is easy to download
>>with CVS; you get CVS via Cygwin again.
>>
>
> I don't understand this. What is the point of using Cygwin for CLISP and Emacs
> when there are native versions, which are presumably faster and better
> integrated with underlying OS. Is there any advantage in using Cygwin (except
> for the geek points)?
It's a easier to find and install Cygwin-packages (where is the native
OpenSSH-server for instance?). I also like the shell that is included with
Cygwin; it seems in some ways more mature than MSYS.
In general it's more "UNIX-like" and I feel more at home there. It's
exactly the underlying OS I'm trying to escape so I do not have to deal
with it. It makes porting and compiling *nix-software quite a bit easier,
and the performance seems good enough even with an extra layer.
--
Lars Rune Nøstdal
http://lars.nostdal.org/
"Dustan" <············@gmail.com> writes:
> Please be patient with me; remember, we're pretending I'm a dummy
> (hopefully a soon-to-be newbie).
Start here:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/courses/archive.php?seriesid=1906978342
Don't worry too much about the IDE and the compiler right now. The IDE
will be emacs (90% of Lisp programmers do use it), and the
implementation can be CLISP, ECL, and SBCL soon.
1) Install Lispworks: http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/index.html
2) Install Edi's Lisp Starter Pack: http://weitz.de/starter-pack/
3) If you want to mess around with SDL you can use the 'Lisp Starter
Pack' installer for the lispbuilder-sdl-* libraries available here:
http://www.balooga.com/lispbuilder/config.lisp . Just place config.lisp
in the same directory as the Lisp Starter Pack in (2) and select the
packages you want to install.
- Luke