Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> Hello, All!
>
> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
>
> With best regards, Alex Mizrahi.
For example, KR.
It can be found in garnet's cvs tree (
http://sourceforge.net/projects/garnetlisp )
······@gmail.com writes:
> Alex Mizrahi wrote:
>> Hello, All!
>>
>> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
>>
>> With best regards, Alex Mizrahi.
>
> For example, KR.
> It can be found in garnet's cvs tree (
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/garnetlisp )=
Somebody mentionned recently a KR version extracted from Garnet:
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.ibiblio.org/gentoo/distfiles/kr_2.3.4.tar.gz
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
"You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you
stand!"
Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> Hello, All!
>
> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
Are you interested in something like CLOS (MCS, CELOS, Flavors, ...) or
something more different (ObjectLisp, KR, FRL, LOOM, MacFrames, ABCL,
CycL, ...)?
>
> With best regards, Alex Mizrahi.
(message (Hello ·······@corporate-world.lisp.de)
(you :wrote :on '(20 Nov 2006 06:09:59 -0800))
(
??>> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
j> Are you interested in something like CLOS (MCS, CELOS, Flavors, ...) or
j> something more different (ObjectLisp, KR, FRL, LOOM, MacFrames, ABCL,
j> CycL, ...)?
something more different.
i'd like OO that can specify a protocol for objects, in sense which
functions can be called on object.
somewhat like Java interfaces or Haskell classes.
for example, in CLOS it could look like:
(defclass foo ())
(defgeneric foo-get-at ((f foo) (x integer) (y integer)))
(defgeneric foo-enumerate ((f foo) (x integer)))
(defclass foo-a-impl (foo) ... )
(defmethod foo-get-at ((f foo-a-impl) (x integer) (y integer)) ...)
that's somewhat clumsy..
i'm afraid such thing doesn't exist in Common Lisp, and only CLOS
alternatives are prototype-based..
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")
Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> (message (Hello ·······@corporate-world.lisp.de)
> (you :wrote :on '(20 Nov 2006 06:09:59 -0800))
> (
>
> ??>> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
>
> j> Are you interested in something like CLOS (MCS, CELOS, Flavors, ...) or
> j> something more different (ObjectLisp, KR, FRL, LOOM, MacFrames, ABCL,
> j> CycL, ...)?
>
> something more different.
> i'd like OO that can specify a protocol for objects, in sense which
> functions can be called on object.
> somewhat like Java interfaces or Haskell classes.
> for example, in CLOS it could look like:
>
> (defclass foo ())
> (defgeneric foo-get-at ((f foo) (x integer) (y integer)))
> (defgeneric foo-enumerate ((f foo) (x integer)))
>
> (defclass foo-a-impl (foo) ... )
>
> (defmethod foo-get-at ((f foo-a-impl) (x integer) (y integer)) ...)
>
> that's somewhat clumsy..
Okay, so your original question was not just any alternative for CLOS,
but an object system with protocols? Maybe even an implementation
of protocols for CLOS?
You can add support for protocols to CLOS. If you have some google-foo
then you
might find implementations.
(The CLIM 2 implementation had one. But that's not 'free'.)
> i'm afraid such thing doesn't exist in Common Lisp, and only CLOS
> alternatives are prototype-based..
The last half-sentence is wrong.
>
> )
> (With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
> "People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")
Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> (message (Hello ·······@corporate-world.lisp.de)
> (you :wrote :on '(20 Nov 2006 06:09:59 -0800))
> (
>
> ??>> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
>
> j> Are you interested in something like CLOS (MCS, CELOS, Flavors, ...) or
> j> something more different (ObjectLisp, KR, FRL, LOOM, MacFrames, ABCL,
> j> CycL, ...)?
>
> something more different.
> i'd like OO that can specify a protocol for objects, in sense which
> functions can be called on object.
> somewhat like Java interfaces or Haskell classes.
> for example, in CLOS it could look like:
>
> (defclass foo ())
> (defgeneric foo-get-at ((f foo) (x integer) (y integer)))
> (defgeneric foo-enumerate ((f foo) (x integer)))
>
> (defclass foo-a-impl (foo) ... )
>
> (defmethod foo-get-at ((f foo-a-impl) (x integer) (y integer)) ...)
>
> that's somewhat clumsy..
>
> i'm afraid such thing doesn't exist in Common Lisp, and only CLOS
> alternatives are prototype-based..
A macro of the following form...
(defprotocol class-name
(some-method ((x integer) (y integer))
...)
(some-other-method ((x integer))
...))
...that expands into code similar to the above should be a
straightforward exercise...
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:42:26 +0200, Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> i'd like OO that can specify a protocol for objects, in sense which
> functions can be called on object.
> somewhat like Java interfaces or Haskell classes.
> for example, in CLOS it could look like:
>
> (defclass foo ())
> (defgeneric foo-get-at ((f foo) (x integer) (y integer)))
> (defgeneric foo-enumerate ((f foo) (x integer)))
>
> (defclass foo-a-impl (foo) ... )
>
> (defmethod foo-get-at ((f foo-a-impl) (x integer) (y integer)) ...)
>
Swank has a light OO system for defining the protocols that are
implemented by its various back-ends. It used to be implemented using
CLOS, but now is a collection of macros and a simple custom dispatch
system.
Matt
--
"You do not really understand something unless you
can explain it to your grandmother." — Albert Einstein.
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:25:40 +0200, "Alex Mizrahi"
<········@users.sourceforge.net> tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>Hello, All!
>
>what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
>
What is wrong with CLOS? If you think it's too bloated, CL supports structures,
symbol plists, assoc lists, hash tables, closures and so on. If you think it
lacks some features, there is MOP.
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:25:40 +0200, "Alex Mizrahi"
> <········@users.sourceforge.net> tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>
>
>>Hello, All!
>>
>>what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
>>
>
>
> What is wrong with CLOS?
I would phrase it differently: why do you (the OP) ask? Kinda curious.
Is the OP just curious, or do they have specific problem, etc etc.
I might also refer The Storm to Scheme, which AIUI has several OO
packages to chose form since Scheme was too snooty to specify one.
Finally, doesn't PG toss off an OO in a chapter in On Lisp?
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
(message (Hello 'Ken)
(you :wrote :on '(Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:24:19 -0500))
(
KT> I would phrase it differently: why do you (the OP) ask? Kinda curious.
KT> Is the OP just curious,
ye, i'm curious -- i'd like to see alternative object system
KT> or do they have specific problem, etc etc.
yes, i have a problem -- CLOS does not work well in ABCL.
it causes code being really slow in ABCL.
also it's suspected to cause some crashes (in case of ABCL they are
null-pointer and other exceptions).
CLOS is quite bloated so i'm unlikely to fix it myself.
so i'm looking for something small and simple.
i want OO thing because i want my program to be modular -- i'm doing
experiments, so i can re-implement some module -- and other stuff should
work with new module as long as implements same module interface. thus i
want an interface-defining thingie. not actually interface for modules, but
for objects they produce. so i can combine modules into some processing
pipeline..
KT> Finally, doesn't PG toss off an OO in a chapter in On Lisp?
indeed, haven't read it yet..
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")
"Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net> writes:
> KT> Finally, doesn't PG toss off an OO in a chapter in On Lisp?
>
> indeed, haven't read it yet..
I don't think you'll regret it. There is an even better introduction
to building your own stripped-down CLOS in PAIP, if I remember
correctly.
Bill Atkins <······@rpi.edu> writes:
> "Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net> writes:
>
>> KT> Finally, doesn't PG toss off an OO in a chapter in On Lisp?
>>
>> indeed, haven't read it yet..
>
> I don't think you'll regret it. There is an even better introduction
> to building your own stripped-down CLOS in PAIP, if I remember
> correctly.
You remember correctly :). I have a copy of PAIP in front of me -
Chapter 13 covers Object Oriented Programming and provides "macros to
make the object-oriented style easier to read and write" (source code
is at http://norvig.com/paip/clos.lisp).
Regards,
Victor.
(message (Hello 'Timofei)
(you :wrote :on '(Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:47:22 GMT))
(
??>> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
TS> What is wrong with CLOS?
implementation i'm working in (ABCL) doesn't support it well.
and it does not provide exactly what do i want, anyway.
TS> If you think it's too bloated, CL supports structures, symbol plists,
TS> assoc lists, hash tables, closures and so on.
ye, i know, i'm already using them, but i'd like some more regular object
interface definitions.
if i'll use low-level structures, i'd need to make those definitions in
plain english -- that's not what i want.
TS> If you think it lacks some features, there is MOP.
there's no MOP in ABCL, and it would be suboptimal anyway.
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")
Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> (message (Hello 'Timofei)
> (you :wrote :on '(Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:47:22 GMT))
> (
>
> ??>> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
>
> TS> What is wrong with CLOS?
>
> implementation i'm working in (ABCL) doesn't support it well.
> and it does not provide exactly what do i want, anyway.
>
> TS> If you think it's too bloated, CL supports structures, symbol plists,
> TS> assoc lists, hash tables, closures and so on.
>
> ye, i know, i'm already using them, but i'd like some more regular object
> interface definitions.
> if i'll use low-level structures, i'd need to make those definitions in
> plain english -- that's not what i want.
Based on this and your direct reply to my query, methinks macrology is
in order, not another OO implementation that still will not do exactly
what you want anyway. Esp. since we are in the Optimization Zone and you
have a target implementation seemingly locked in (ABCL). By rolling your
own (perhaps atop defstruct to give you a head start?) you can /really/
tailor things to keep ABCL happy, and it will be /exactly/ the OO system
you want. Start with something else and you gotta learn it (which may
take as long as would rolling your own) and then you have to work around
it (or hack it) when it does not do what you want. And once you get it
built you may discover it knocks ABCL to its knees (taking your word for
it) as badly as CLOS.
my2. kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
"Alex Mizrahi" <········@users.sourceforge.net> writes:
> and it does not provide exactly what do i want, anyway.
I'm curious to know what is exactly what you want and that CLOS cannot
provide.
> there's no MOP in ABCL, and it would be suboptimal anyway.
If you need ABCL because its conectivity to Java, I would recommend
you to look at http://www.cliki.net/Java and use a more complete and
supported implementation of Lisp (for example SBCL, CLISP or ECL).
Alex Mizrahi wrote:
> Hello, All!
>
> what alternatives to CLOS are there available for Common Lisp?
See
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/oop/non_clos/0.html
for some examples.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/scheme/oop/0.html
is also related.
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/