gavino wrote:
> stop
> Take what I ask seriously.
> In a macro sense.
> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
> programming problems in it?
You ever played Daytona 2 before? There are 3 cars there, with manual
and automatic transmission settings. The "expert" car with manual
transmission, is simply the most powerful car in the game--there's no
way somebody, no matter how good, using an automatic "easy" car can
beat him, EXCEPT if the "expert" car driver is no good.
If both players are equally lousy, it's quite probable that the one
driving automatic easy car wins--the "expert" car slides easily, you
can lose control of it easily if you're not good. However if you're
good with it, you'll kick everybody's ass. You'll powerslide like
nobody's business around tight corner at 250km/h while the guy using
automatic easy car is forced to cut down his speed to 100km/h.
I suspect Lisp is the expert manual car of the programming languages.
You can leave everybody else in the dust, provided that you're above a
certain threshold. If you're below that threshold, might as well use
the easy car (e.g.: Visual Basic 6), it will bring you somewhere,
although not as far as Lisp. Lisp will just get you crashing here and
there, just like the expert car.
(Take this with a big grain of salt. I'm just starting learning it.) :)
My 0.02,
Ray
On 2006-11-09 02:52:43 -0500, "gavino" <········@yahoo.com> said:
> stop
> Take what I ask seriously.
why, Troll-vino?
> In a macro sense.
I'll take your posts in a micro sense - microcephalic that is - if it's
all the same to you, Zerbino [1].
> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
> programming problems in it?
If trolling is so entertaining, why does Gavino want to be taken seriously?
'til your next Zippy-esque zen troll-an ...
[1] "Commedia dell' Zippy" / Griffy. 6 p. in Arcade, the Comics Revue,
no. 5 (Spring 1976), in which Zippy the Pinhead's renaissance ancestor,
Zerbino appears with a troup of Commedia dell'Arte players.
From: Lars Rune Nøstdal
Subject: Re: is clisp alive? is SBCL a bsd license? why aren't more MIT grad rich from lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <pan.2006.11.09.08.46.33.314086@gmail.com>
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:52:43 -0800, gavino wrote:
> stop
g-duh-huh-huh--duh-huh-huh-Oo'kei
> Take what I ask seriously.
> In a macro sense.
> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
> programming problems in it?
Not enough logos, mugs and t-shirts.
You should check out C instead of "clisp". Torvalds bought a nice car(#1)
- are you confused yet?
"MIT License, Public Domain", see
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbcl/
#1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Z3#Famous_Owners
--
Lars Rune Nøstdal
http://lars.nostdal.org/
gavino wrote:
> stop
> Take what I ask seriously.
> In a macro sense.
> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
> programming problems in it?
is scheme a useless academic langage? What commonly sed app is done in
scheme?
how can I build a kick butt website using scheme?
wait does slib actually implement a relational db?
what do schemers use for e commerce?
does SLIB allow scheme to talk to postgresql?
how do i update one section of a page leaving rest?
are appservers BS? is python a bunch of snooty wankers?
can someone unban me from freenode irc? #perl ?
if Clisp is so good where are the commonly used apps?
how in hell can I learn CLISP? PCL seems lame
even with lisp, are websites just interfaces to databases? or can you
skip the rdbms? How can I build a dynamic website better with
CLISP?
is aolserver 4.5 compiling on linux yet?
http://aolserver.com/lists.php why is aolsever mailing list done in
php?
anyone like gobolinux? It seems great to me
embperl the fastest perl website setup?
zd1211 driver for usb nic, adding to non knopix distro?
wireless usb ethernet card for linux?
where is the APL website production tool? APl databasE?
Is there an APL system that is free for commercial use for linux?
I want a 100% as in beer free APL interpreter and manual. Where do I
find one?
is there a web browser in APL? or a DNS server?
APl v J?
Is there a linux version of APL?
what is scalability limit on smallalk oo db?
is anyone using squeak prevalence? al objects in ram?
can squeak be used for huge sites? screw non free smalltalk!
how does seaside compare to this? happs
http://happs.org/HAppS/README.�html
seaside for customer service website adn sales website?
how do I schedule jobs in smalltalk? involving automation of ftp
transfers?
linux monitoring using smalltalk?
can smalltalk split work among multiple machines for speed?
what is new about oo programming why does it matter? why did world run
with non oo before?
smalltalk as 'going further' than python or ruby = more poweR? also
lisp haskell etc.
is the an app server in forth yet?
what kinds of app can you build in forth? webserver? dynamic websie?
Is there a purely event driven framework for java?
is cocoon a hunk of crap? or dope?
why so many frameworks? Can you just put all best ideas in 1?
job scheduler free software quartz?
jboss, boon or bain? my work is bringing it in on linux redhat
is stripes any good?
what is the best java framework for distributed transactions?
does php+apache have caching of page+data, db connect pool?
sugarcrm sucks, but so does xoops, is there a decent free biz package?
whats best functional application server?
is haskell more productive than scheme?
is forth a functional language?
is haskell a form of lisp?
haskell for webapps? happs? is haskell better than java php asp etc?
How is haskell more powerful than lisp ?
http://happs.org/HAppS/README.�html can happs be used in production?
what is a COTS?
How do I test the network speed between 2 linux boxes?
annoying preview popup graphic in 9, and how make save with images
default?
why can't you set the default save to save with images?
conan RPG any good?
how is netbsd under heavy net loads?
database web programming, scrap the appserver, use aolserver, stuff in
ram?
can ostgresql handle 50k users simulaneously?
playing 3 movies at same time with media player how?
6-6 280 33, how do I get down to 210? I eat a lot
can someone learn programming with D?
From: Bill Atkins
Subject: Re: is clisp alive? is SBCL a bsd license? why aren't more MIT grad rich from lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <m2psbwh37v.fsf@weedle-24.dynamic.rpi.edu>
"Joe Marshall" <··········@gmail.com> writes:
> gavino wrote:
>> stop
>> Take what I ask seriously.
>> In a macro sense.
>> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
>> programming problems in it?
>
> is scheme a useless academic langage? What commonly sed app is done in
> scheme?
> how can I build a kick butt website using scheme?
> wait does slib actually implement a relational db?
> what do schemers use for e commerce?
> does SLIB allow scheme to talk to postgresql?
> how do i update one section of a page leaving rest?
> are appservers BS? is python a bunch of snooty wankers?
> can someone unban me from freenode irc? #perl ?
> if Clisp is so good where are the commonly used apps?
> how in hell can I learn CLISP? PCL seems lame
> even with lisp, are websites just interfaces to databases? or can you
> skip the rdbms? How can I build a dynamic website better with
> CLISP?
> is aolserver 4.5 compiling on linux yet?
> http://aolserver.com/lists.php why is aolsever mailing list done in
> php?
> anyone like gobolinux? It seems great to me
> embperl the fastest perl website setup?
> zd1211 driver for usb nic, adding to non knopix distro?
> wireless usb ethernet card for linux?
> where is the APL website production tool? APl databasE?
> Is there an APL system that is free for commercial use for linux?
> I want a 100% as in beer free APL interpreter and manual. Where do I
> find one?
> is there a web browser in APL? or a DNS server?
> APl v J?
> Is there a linux version of APL?
> what is scalability limit on smallalk oo db?
> is anyone using squeak prevalence? al objects in ram?
> can squeak be used for huge sites? screw non free smalltalk!
> how does seaside compare to this? happs
> http://happs.org/HAppS/README.�html
> seaside for customer service website adn sales website?
> how do I schedule jobs in smalltalk? involving automation of ftp
> transfers?
> linux monitoring using smalltalk?
> can smalltalk split work among multiple machines for speed?
> what is new about oo programming why does it matter? why did world run
> with non oo before?
> smalltalk as 'going further' than python or ruby = more poweR? also
> lisp haskell etc.
> is the an app server in forth yet?
> what kinds of app can you build in forth? webserver? dynamic websie?
> Is there a purely event driven framework for java?
> is cocoon a hunk of crap? or dope?
> why so many frameworks? Can you just put all best ideas in 1?
> job scheduler free software quartz?
> jboss, boon or bain? my work is bringing it in on linux redhat
> is stripes any good?
> what is the best java framework for distributed transactions?
> does php+apache have caching of page+data, db connect pool?
> sugarcrm sucks, but so does xoops, is there a decent free biz package?
>
> whats best functional application server?
> is haskell more productive than scheme?
> is forth a functional language?
> is haskell a form of lisp?
> haskell for webapps? happs? is haskell better than java php asp etc?
>
> How is haskell more powerful than lisp ?
> http://happs.org/HAppS/README.�html can happs be used in production?
> what is a COTS?
> How do I test the network speed between 2 linux boxes?
> annoying preview popup graphic in 9, and how make save with images
> default?
> why can't you set the default save to save with images?
> conan RPG any good?
> how is netbsd under heavy net loads?
> database web programming, scrap the appserver, use aolserver, stuff in
> ram?
> can ostgresql handle 50k users simulaneously?
> playing 3 movies at same time with media player how?
> 6-6 280 33, how do I get down to 210? I eat a lot
> can someone learn programming with D?
That was truly terrifying.
From: Pascal Bourguignon
Subject: Re: is clisp alive? is SBCL a bsd license? why aren't more MIT grad rich from lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <87bqngsbfi.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com>
"Joe Marshall" <··········@gmail.com> writes:
> gavino wrote:
>> stop
>> Take what I ask seriously.
>> In a macro sense.
>> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
>> programming problems in it?
If that was not obvious, the following are subjects of gavino's posts.
He's totally useless...
> is scheme a useless academic langage? What commonly sed app is done in
> scheme?
> how can I build a kick butt website using scheme?
> wait does slib actually implement a relational db?
> what do schemers use for e commerce?
> does SLIB allow scheme to talk to postgresql?
> how do i update one section of a page leaving rest?
> are appservers BS? is python a bunch of snooty wankers?
> can someone unban me from freenode irc? #perl ?
> if Clisp is so good where are the commonly used apps?
> how in hell can I learn CLISP? PCL seems lame
> even with lisp, are websites just interfaces to databases? or can you
> skip the rdbms? How can I build a dynamic website better with
> CLISP?
> is aolserver 4.5 compiling on linux yet?
> http://aolserver.com/lists.php why is aolsever mailing list done in
> php?
> anyone like gobolinux? It seems great to me
> embperl the fastest perl website setup?
> zd1211 driver for usb nic, adding to non knopix distro?
> wireless usb ethernet card for linux?
> where is the APL website production tool? APl databasE?
> Is there an APL system that is free for commercial use for linux?
> I want a 100% as in beer free APL interpreter and manual. Where do I
> find one?
> is there a web browser in APL? or a DNS server?
> APl v J?
> Is there a linux version of APL?
> what is scalability limit on smallalk oo db?
> is anyone using squeak prevalence? al objects in ram?
> can squeak be used for huge sites? screw non free smalltalk!
> how does seaside compare to this? happs
> http://happs.org/HAppS/README.�html
> seaside for customer service website adn sales website?
> how do I schedule jobs in smalltalk? involving automation of ftp
> transfers?
> linux monitoring using smalltalk?
> can smalltalk split work among multiple machines for speed?
> what is new about oo programming why does it matter? why did world run
> with non oo before?
> smalltalk as 'going further' than python or ruby = more poweR? also
> lisp haskell etc.
> is the an app server in forth yet?
> what kinds of app can you build in forth? webserver? dynamic websie?
> Is there a purely event driven framework for java?
> is cocoon a hunk of crap? or dope?
> why so many frameworks? Can you just put all best ideas in 1?
> job scheduler free software quartz?
> jboss, boon or bain? my work is bringing it in on linux redhat
> is stripes any good?
> what is the best java framework for distributed transactions?
> does php+apache have caching of page+data, db connect pool?
> sugarcrm sucks, but so does xoops, is there a decent free biz package?
>
> whats best functional application server?
> is haskell more productive than scheme?
> is forth a functional language?
> is haskell a form of lisp?
> haskell for webapps? happs? is haskell better than java php asp etc?
>
> How is haskell more powerful than lisp ?
> http://happs.org/HAppS/README.�html can happs be used in production?
> what is a COTS?
> How do I test the network speed between 2 linux boxes?
> annoying preview popup graphic in 9, and how make save with images
> default?
> why can't you set the default save to save with images?
> conan RPG any good?
> how is netbsd under heavy net loads?
> database web programming, scrap the appserver, use aolserver, stuff in
> ram?
> can ostgresql handle 50k users simulaneously?
> playing 3 movies at same time with media player how?
> 6-6 280 33, how do I get down to 210? I eat a lot
> can someone learn programming with D?
>
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
PUBLIC NOTICE AS REQUIRED BY LAW: Any use of this product, in any
manner whatsoever, will increase the amount of disorder in the
universe. Although no liability is implied herein, the consumer is
warned that this process will ultimately lead to the heat death of
the universe.
gavino wrote:
> stop
> Take what I ask seriously.
> In a macro sense.
> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
> programming problems in it?
I cry myself to sleep every night asking the same exact questions.
Why trollers like this group so much, I couldn't understand.
gavino wrote:
> stop
> Take what I ask seriously.
> In a macro sense.
> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
> programming problems in it?
From: John Thingstad
Subject: Re: is clisp alive? is SBCL a bsd license? why aren't more MIT grad rich from lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <op.tiwbc7t7pqzri1@pandora.upc.no>
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:16:58 +0100, ttk <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why trollers like this group so much, I couldn't understand.
>
> gavino wrote:
>> stop
>> Take what I ask seriously.
>> In a macro sense.
>> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
>> programming problems in it?
>
What gave you the idea that this group is spesial.
Try a troll mecca like sci.space.policy
(I no longer subscribe to it, trolls took over and everyone else left..)
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
From: Sam Steingold
Subject: Re: is clisp alive? is SBCL a bsd license? why aren't more MIT grad rich from lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <m3lkmg7h40.fsf@loiso.podval.org>
> * gavino <········@lnubb.pbz> [2006-11-08 23:52:43 -0800]:
>
> stop
> Take what I ask seriously.
> In a macro sense.
> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
> programming problems in it?
you are raising a very big question.
you may as well ask why bad things happen to good people or something
similar.
there are as many answers as there are people who answer, that is there
is no one definitive answer.
if you are not a troll (i.e., not just trying to stir a pointless
discussion), you should google this group for "success story" or
"popular" and read at least 10 years worth of discussions.
then, if you still have any questions, please feel free to repeat them
here, but in a form that would clearly indicate that you are not a troll
and that you did your homework. specifically, you will need to summarize
the 10 years worth of arguments in a concise and clear form.
--
Sam Steingold (http://sds.podval.org/) on Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux)
http://thereligionofpeace.com http://jihadwatch.org
http://ffii.org http://memri.org http://mideasttruth.com http://truepeace.org
There are two ways to win an argument with a woman. Neither works.
From: John Thingstad
Subject: Re: is clisp alive? is SBCL a bsd license? why aren't more MIT grad rich from lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <op.tiwxnvn4pqzri1@pandora.upc.no>
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:41:03 +0100, Sam Steingold <···@gnu.org> wrote:
>> * gavino <········@lnubb.pbz> [2006-11-08 23:52:43 -0800]:
>>
>> stop
>> Take what I ask seriously.
>> In a macro sense.
>> If clisp is awesome, then why don't more people get rich by solving
>> programming problems in it?
>
> you are raising a very big question.
> you may as well ask why bad things happen to good people or something
> similar.
> there are as many answers as there are people who answer, that is there
> is no one definitive answer.
> if you are not a troll (i.e., not just trying to stir a pointless
> discussion), you should google this group for "success story" or
> "popular" and read at least 10 years worth of discussions.
> then, if you still have any questions, please feel free to repeat them
> here, but in a form that would clearly indicate that you are not a troll
> and that you did your homework. specifically, you will need to summarize
> the 10 years worth of arguments in a concise and clear form.
>
This has some links of companies using Allegro common Lisp with success:
http://www.franz.com/success/
ACL is expensive but so are programmers.
clisp is just another open-source program among thousands.
Why should it stick out.
The problem is really can you program. Lisp is good for some things,
not so good for others. Me, I use a plethora of tools depending
on what I am doing. (That is probably why I am not a wiz lisper.)
My recommendation is to use what you are comfortable with.
It's business sense and good ideas that make successes. Not languages.
Do the math. Approx 3 000 000 people use C++ professionally as opposed to
30 000 for Lisp. So there are probably 100 times more people that fail
with C++ :)
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