I hear it was a bust. Poor turn-out, little energy, crappy talks.
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"Have you ever been in a relationship?"
Attorney for Mary Winkler, confessed killer of her
minister husband, when asked if the couple had
marital problems.
>>>>> "KT" == Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
KT> I hear it was a bust. Poor turn-out, little energy, crappy
KT> talks. kt
Yup. Those few us who were there sought solace in smoking and
drinking -- alone. Compared to the crowds of thousands in the 90's,
it was tough to find people to talk to. It was mostly geezers sent by
their companies hawking utterly uninteresting stuff. And everybody
talked about their simple cgi scripts. Yuck. You didn't miss a thing.
Not a thing.
cheers,
BM
Ken Tilton wrote:
> I hear it was a bust. Poor turn-out, little energy, crappy talks.
>
> kt
>
http://lispmeister.com/blog/lisp-news/eclm-2006-report.html
Thomas Schilling wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>I hear it was a bust. Poor turn-out, little energy, crappy talks.
>>
>>kt
>>
>
>
> http://lispmeister.com/blog/lisp-news/eclm-2006-report.html
<sigh> Looks like a Dead Cat Bounce from where I sit. Too little, too
late. No McCLIM demo? PWUAHAHAHAHAH! The portable library if only
Windows did not exist. I kill me.
Rucksack would be more impressive if it existed, ie, if I could download
it. But I /love/ the name. Go, Arthur... go, Arthur!
Oh, and Franz hawking their wares as a "talk"? They paid for the room,
didn't they? Admit it!
Hope the beer was good, anyway.
kenneth
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"Have you ever been in a relationship?"
Attorney for Mary Winkler, confessed killer of her
minister husband, when asked if the couple had
marital problems.
Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> late. No McCLIM demo? PWUAHAHAHAHAH! The portable library if only
The marketing department is doing such a good job anyway that nobody
thought about a demo.
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://wiki.alu.org/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
The Common Lisp Directory: http://www.cl-user.net
Ken Tilton wrote:
>> http://lispmeister.com/blog/lisp-news/eclm-2006-report.html
>
>
> <sigh> Looks like a Dead Cat Bounce from where I sit. Too little, too
> late. No McCLIM demo? PWUAHAHAHAHAH! The portable library if only
> Windows did not exist. I kill me.
So where's the Cells-2 demo (or 3, whatever)? At least McCLIM has a
spec! ;)
The McCLIM-demos were in the breaks. I did participate only very
little, but from #lisp I hear the programs were nice but maybe a little
pointless. Still the CLIM guys seem to do good work. Maybe there's
more to see at the next ILC in Cambridge, UK. See the other reports on
planet.lisp.org if you like (Though, they're less objective IMHO--hence
I only posted the above one).
> Rucksack would be more impressive if it existed, ie, if I could download
> it. But I /love/ the name. Go, Arthur... go, Arthur!
Yeah, Arthur's talk was nice indeed. Interesting, entertaining and
pretty honest ("You've got a fair chance of recovering.", "Yes, you're
right, didn't think about that.")
Actually (and probably most would agree) the last talk was the best. It
was *veeery* impressing.
> Oh, and Franz hawking their wares as a "talk"? They paid for the room,
> didn't they? Admit it!
Probably not. Most other speakers used Lispworks (or CMUCL) ;)
> Hope the beer was good, anyway.
Sure, it's German beer, you know. :)
Thomas Schilling wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>>http://lispmeister.com/blog/lisp-news/eclm-2006-report.html
>>
>>
>><sigh> Looks like a Dead Cat Bounce from where I sit. Too little, too
>>late. No McCLIM demo? PWUAHAHAHAHAH! The portable library if only
>>Windows did not exist. I kill me.
>
>
> So where's the Cells-2 demo (or 3, whatever)?
I think you mean Cello, the GUI that uses Cells. And, yes, we are up to
Cells-3. It is in CVS, where it is supposed to be. Spec? One word: data
integrity.
"When the overall Cells data model gets perturbed by imperative code
executing a SETF of some datapoint X -- typically in an event handler
capturing data fro outside the Cells-driven model -- we want these
requirements met:
- recompute all and only state computed off X (directly or indirectly
through some intermediate datapoint);
- recomputations, when they read other datapoints, must see only
values current with the new value of X;
- similarly, client observers ("on change" callbacks) must see only
values current with the new value of X; and
- a corollary: should a client observer SETF a datapoint Y, all the
above must happen with values current with not just X, but also with the
value of Y /prior/ to the change to Y.
> At least McCLIM has a
> spec! ;)
Couldn't understand a word.
>
> The McCLIM-demos were in the breaks. I did participate only very
> little, but from #lisp I hear the programs were nice but maybe a little
> pointless. Still the CLIM guys seem to do good work.
I am sure. That is why they should not be wasting their time on McCLIM.
Hell, it is not even integrated with Cells.
> Maybe there's
> more to see at the next ILC in Cambridge, UK.
Nah, everyone will be using LTk or Cello by then, even the yobbos. I am
ripping out Freeglut and replacing it with Tcl/Tk. Peter Herth was right.
Btw, in fact I heard the meeting was terrific. Thx for the report.
kenny
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"Have you ever been in a relationship?"
Attorney for Mary Winkler, confessed killer of her
minister husband, when asked if the couple had
marital problems.
>>>>> "KT" == Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
KT> Nah, everyone will be using LTk or Cello by then, even the
KT> yobbos. I am ripping out Freeglut and replacing it with
KT> Tcl/Tk. Peter Herth was right. [...]
Well, I suspect I'll still be using opengl bindings and whatever my
lisp gives me for simple menu/file dialogs and mouseclicks (CAPI works
well). I like Tcl/Tk but seems too much to haul around when my
primary stuff is in opengl anyway and the lisp implementation provides
enough of a toolkit for mundane stuff. I'd intended to ask you this in
e-mail but perhaps it'd be worthwhile for the readership here if you
summarized what really justifies the Tcl/Tk inclusion.
[...]
KT> Btw, in fact I heard the meeting was terrific. Thx for the
KT> report.
My silliness (blame Kenny) aside, it indeed was. Thanks Arthur
and Edi.
cheers,
BM
Bulent Murtezaoglu wrote:
>>>>>>"KT" == Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> [...]
> KT> Nah, everyone will be using LTk or Cello by then, even the
> KT> yobbos. I am ripping out Freeglut and replacing it with
> KT> Tcl/Tk. Peter Herth was right. [...]
>
> Well, I suspect I'll still be using opengl bindings and whatever my
> lisp gives me for simple menu/file dialogs and mouseclicks (CAPI works
> well). I like Tcl/Tk but seems too much to haul around when my
> primary stuff is in opengl anyway and the lisp implementation provides
> enough of a toolkit for mundane stuff.
I think you just defined away your question. :)
> I'd intended to ask you this in
> e-mail but perhaps it'd be worthwhile for the readership here if you
> summarized what really justifies the Tcl/Tk inclusion.
Blame Burdick. :) He suggested Tk was more native (Aqua?) on OS X than
Gtk, my alternative. Oh, you asked about justification.
Well, if you are happy with CAPI there may be none for you. I wanted
portable (across Lisps as well as OSes) and native. Of course everyone
knows that I consider ACL the only lisp to develop with, so Lispworks is
not an option. But I did not want to be locked into them because of the
royalty thing.
As for Freeglut, that barely gives you a window and an event stream.
Tcl/Tk also gives me the standard and native File Open dialog, and a
portable "font families" command to get those portably. File
directories, hell, even sockets and threads! Check it out:
http://tmml.sourceforge.net/doc/tcl/
http://tmml.sourceforge.net/doc/tk/
ie, It ain't just a GUI. Heck, I see it has a registry command for
mucking with the win32 registry. The Img package might let me stop
dealing with ImageMagick, as much as I liked that lib. etc etc.
A final consideration: The Open Source Benefit. Cello gets more contribs
by being more portable. Oh, just spotted one more: "Tk_GetUid returns
the unique identifier corresponding to string. Unique identifiers are
similar to atoms in Lisp, and are used in Tk to speed up comparisons and
searches. " Hey, they like Lisp!
hth, kenny
ps. "Haul around"? It's a DLL, get over it. :) kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"Have you ever been in a relationship?"
Attorney for Mary Winkler, confessed killer of her
minister husband, when asked if the couple had
marital problems.