I've just finished reading
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
He blathers a bit, but here is an quote
"The biggest contributing factor to unreliability in software has to do
with unresolved dependencies. In an algorithmic system, the
enforcement of relationships among data items (part of what Brooks
defines as the essence of software) is solely the responsibility of the
programmer. That is to say, every time a property is changed by a
statement or a subroutine, it is up to the programmer to remember to
update every other part of the program that is potentially affected by
the change. The problem is that relationships can be so numerous and
complex that programmers often fail to resolve them all."
And he refers to the COSA operating system, with elements called
'Cells'
"Cells
Cells are active synchronous objects that reside in computer memory. A
cell communicates with other cells via signals. There are two types of
cells: sensors and effectors. Sensors detect changes or patterns of
changes and effectors execute changes. Together with data (passive
objects) cells comprise the basic building blocks of every COSA
application."
Kenny, I know that you didn't write this, but I figured you'd be
interested. Nice to see that others believe in the Cells paradigm as
much as you do.
Cheers
Brad
bradb wrote:
> I've just finished reading
> http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
Sigh, everything else on his site is a pretty crackpotish. Maybe this
isn't guy isn't such a good advocate for Cells.
Brad
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Kenny, did you write this article?!? (Cells)
Date:
Message-ID: <xHYig.16$vZ7.9@fe12.lga>
bradb wrote:
> bradb wrote:
>
>>I've just finished reading
>>http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
>
>
> Sigh, everything else on his site is a pretty crackpotish. Maybe this
> isn't guy isn't such a good advocate for Cells.
<g> That is why I have not listed it in prior art.
But the discussion you cited is damn coherent. I think it is OK to
listen to crackpots. I heard once that some cultures give their
crackpots a lot of respect -- while keeping a close eye on them --
probably because brains and nuttiness tend to go together, so that
mumbling crank might be worth listening to from time to time.
My bigger problems with the site is that no code has been produced, and
it cites no prior art. Steele's PhD thesis on constraints, for example,
talks about wires and signals and I believe even cells. Pretty sure the
latter usage was part of my decision to use "cells" when the savages of
c.l.l reject semaphors (misspelling deliberate).
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
From: Patrick May
Subject: Re: Kenny, did you write this article?!? (Cells)
Date:
Message-ID: <m2ac8jzgp2.fsf@Dagney.local>
Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> But the discussion you cited is damn coherent. I think it is OK to
> listen to crackpots. I heard once that some cultures give their
> crackpots a lot of respect -- while keeping a close eye on them --
> probably because brains and nuttiness tend to go together, so that
> mumbling crank might be worth listening to from time to time.
That's why it's always worth having a few philosophers
around the place. One minute it's all Is Truth Beauty
and Is Beauty Truth, and Does A Falling Tree in the
Forest Make A Sound if There's No one There to Hear It,
and then just when you think they're going to start
dribbling one of 'em says, Incidentally, putting a
thirty-foot parabolic reflector on a high place to
shoot the rays of the sun at an enemy's ships would be
a very interesting demonstration of optical principles.
-- The many and varied advantages of philosophy
(Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Regards,
Patrick
------------------------------------------------------------------------
S P Engineering, Inc. | The experts in large scale distributed OO
| systems design and implementation.
···@spe.com | (C++, Java, Common Lisp, Jini, middleware, SOA)
Patrick May wrote:
> Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>But the discussion you cited is damn coherent. I think it is OK to
>>listen to crackpots. I heard once that some cultures give their
>>crackpots a lot of respect -- while keeping a close eye on them --
>>probably because brains and nuttiness tend to go together, so that
>>mumbling crank might be worth listening to from time to time.
>
>
> That's why it's always worth having a few philosophers
> around the place. One minute it's all Is Truth Beauty
> and Is Beauty Truth, and Does A Falling Tree in the
> Forest Make A Sound if There's No one There to Hear It,
> and then just when you think they're going to start
> dribbling one of 'em says, Incidentally, putting a
> thirty-foot parabolic reflector on a high place to
> shoot the rays of the sun at an enemy's ships would be
> a very interesting demonstration of optical principles.
>
> -- The many and varied advantages of philosophy
> (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
>
> Regards,
>
> Patrick
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> S P Engineering, Inc. | The experts in large scale distributed OO
> | systems design and implementation.
> ···@spe.com | (C++, Java, Common Lisp, Jini, middleware, SOA)
"Yep," said Om, "That's philosophy, right enough."
"But they're fighting!"
"A full and free exchange of opinions, yes."
Now that Brutha could get a clearer view, he could see that
there were one or two differences between the men. One had a
shorter beard, and was red in the face, and was waggling a
finger accusingly.
-- Observations on the act of philosophizing.
Same book, page 140
Of course, really listening to people who might have good ideas involves
listening to /everyone/, not just nutjobs. Hell, we might even have to
listen to *trolls*.
--
The science of economics is the cleverest proof of free will yet
constructed.
Ken Tilton wrote:
> My bigger problems with the site is that no code has been produced, and
> it cites no prior art. Steele's PhD thesis on constraints, for example,
> talks about wires and signals and I believe even cells. Pretty sure the
> latter usage was part of my decision to use "cells" when the savages of
> c.l.l reject semaphors (misspelling deliberate).
Reminds me of another language/paradigm which I would like to see
resurrected in this or that form: Occam. When linked article autors
asks for hardware support of what essentially are light-weighted CSPs
(Communicating Sequential Processes) they seem to not
know/ignore/forget INMOS transputers. Those were nice little beasts
back in the day! ;-)
Paul B.
······@gmail.com wrote:
> Reminds me of another language/paradigm which I would like to see
> resurrected in this or that form: Occam. When linked article autors
> asks for hardware support of what essentially are light-weighted CSPs
> (Communicating Sequential Processes) they seem to not
> know/ignore/forget INMOS transputers. Those were nice little beasts
> back in the day! ;-)
>
See Occam-PI at :
http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/projects/ofa/kroc/
and Grid-Occam at:
http://www.grid-occam.org/moin/StartSeite
and my website at:
http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer
cheers,
Ram
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:31:18 +0200, <········@olf.com> wrote:
>
> ······@gmail.com wrote:
>> Reminds me of another language/paradigm which I would like to see
>> resurrected in this or that form: Occam. When linked article autors
>> asks for hardware support of what essentially are light-weighted CSPs
>> (Communicating Sequential Processes) they seem to not
>> know/ignore/forget INMOS transputers. Those were nice little beasts
>> back in the day! ;-)
>>
>
> See Occam-PI at :
>
> http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/projects/ofa/kroc/
>
> and Grid-Occam at:
>
> http://www.grid-occam.org/moin/StartSeite
>
> and my website at:
>
> http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer
>
> cheers,
>
> Ram
>
thx for that 1
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
From: Tin Gherdanarra
Subject: Re: Kenny, did you write this article?!? (Cells)
Date:
Message-ID: <4gcd21F1mltchU1@individual.net>
bradb wrote:
> bradb wrote:
>
>>I've just finished reading
>>http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
>
>
> Sigh, everything else on his site is a pretty crackpotish.
The Reliability-article is crackpottish, too.
Many articles like this have been written over
the last couple of decades, and many more will.
"It's all so easy! Use this snake-oil! Doctors suck
because they don't know snake-oil! Doctors greedy and
rip you off! You looking for silver-bullet? You buy
snake-oil!"
> Maybe this
> isn't guy isn't such a good advocate for Cells.
What does the article have to do with cells?
>
> Brad
>
--
Lisp kann nicht kratzen, denn Lisp ist fluessig
Tin Gherdanarra wrote:
>
> What does the article have to do with cells?
>
Nothing explicitly, just that when I read the article I was immediately
reminded of Cells. They use a lot of the same underlying terminology,
even the term Cell.
But when I read a bit more I realised the guy was a bit nuts.
Cheers
Brad
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: Kenny, did you write this article?!? (Cells)
Date:
Message-ID: <Hkgog.5364$9y4.3673@fe11.lga>
bradb wrote:
> Tin Gherdanarra wrote:
>
>>What does the article have to do with cells?
The model described is Steele's multi-way constraints paradigm. Cells
are the trivial one-way special case of that.
>>
>
> Nothing explicitly, just that when I read the article I was immediately
> reminded of Cells. They use a lot of the same underlying terminology,
> even the term Cell.
I see the Adobe Adam folks use "cell" as well. I was leaning towards
cell because of the spreadsheet metaphor, and then found it again when i
looked back at Steele's thesis on constraints, decided it was a "go".
And as I have said before, the guy's stuff sounds a lot like Steele's
thesis where Steele originated the wired circuit metaphor. Forget how ge
got from that to cell, but then i am a big fan of mixed metaphors, so no
reason using two needs to be justified.
kt
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
From: Tin Gherdanarra
Subject: Re: Kenny, did you write this article?!? (Cells)
Date:
Message-ID: <4gfv0qF1m9fgjU1@individual.net>
Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>
> bradb wrote:
>
>> Tin Gherdanarra wrote:
>>
>>> What does the article have to do with cells?
>
>
> The model described is Steele's multi-way constraints paradigm. Cells
> are the trivial one-way special case of that.
Does this mean you can build a sudoku-puzzle machine with it?
Sounds great! What about cellular automata?
--
Lisp kann nicht kratzen, denn Lisp ist fluessig
Tin Gherdanarra <···········@gmail.com> writes:
> bradb wrote:
>> bradb wrote:
>>
>>>I've just finished reading
>>>http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
>> Sigh, everything else on his site is a pretty crackpotish.
>
> The Reliability-article is crackpottish, too.
> Many articles like this have been written over
> the last couple of decades, and many more will.
>
> "It's all so easy! Use this snake-oil! Doctors suck
> because they don't know snake-oil! Doctors greedy and
> rip you off! You looking for silver-bullet? You buy
> snake-oil!"
How many werewolf did you encouter in your life?
How do you know a silver-bullet wouldn't be effective to kill one?
Don't disqualify the snake-oil, it may be highly effective, given the
right conditions!
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
NOTE: The most fundamental particles in this product are held
together by a "gluing" force about which little is currently known
and whose adhesive power can therefore not be permanently
guaranteed.
From: Tin Gherdanarra
Subject: Re: Kenny, did you write this article?!? (Cells)
Date:
Message-ID: <4gcmjkF1kpiosU1@individual.net>
Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
> Tin Gherdanarra <···········@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>bradb wrote:
>>
>>>bradb wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've just finished reading
>>>>http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
>>>
>>>Sigh, everything else on his site is a pretty crackpotish.
>>
>>The Reliability-article is crackpottish, too.
>>Many articles like this have been written over
>>the last couple of decades, and many more will.
>>
>>"It's all so easy! Use this snake-oil! Doctors suck
>>because they don't know snake-oil! Doctors greedy and
>>rip you off! You looking for silver-bullet? You buy
>>snake-oil!"
>
>
> How many werewolf did you encouter in your life?
> How do you know a silver-bullet wouldn't be effective to kill one?
> Don't disqualify the snake-oil, it may be highly effective, given the
> right conditions!
I meant that configuratively, so don't pin me down on
the chemistry and voodoo of snake-oil and silver-bullets.
If Kenny Tilton wrote this article, I'm a little disappointed
because so far o-Tilton-san has made a much more reasonable and
enlighted impression. He lost me when stating "Users become programmers".
However, the links from the article go to much worse
bunk, so I can't rule out that the whole thing is
an elaborate prank. (You guys sooooh got me.)
>
>
--
Lisp kann nicht kratzen, denn Lisp ist fluessig
Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
> Tin Gherdanarra <···········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > bradb wrote:
> >> bradb wrote:
> >>
> >>>I've just finished reading
> >>>http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
> >> Sigh, everything else on his site is a pretty crackpotish.
> >
> > The Reliability-article is crackpottish, too.
> > Many articles like this have been written over
> > the last couple of decades, and many more will.
> >
> > "It's all so easy! Use this snake-oil! Doctors suck
> > because they don't know snake-oil! Doctors greedy and
> > rip you off! You looking for silver-bullet? You buy
> > snake-oil!"
>
> How many werewolf did you encouter in your life?
> How do you know a silver-bullet wouldn't be effective to kill one?
As late as the beginning of the fourteenth century a ghoul was
cornered in the crypt of the cathedral at Amiens and the whole
population surrounded the place. Twenty armed men with a priest
at their head, bearing a crucifix, entered and captured the
ghoul, which, thinking to escape by the stratagem, had
transformed itself to the semblance of a well known citizen, but
was nevertheless hanged, drawn, and quartered in the midst of
hideous popular orgies. The citizen whose shape the demon had
assumed was so affected by the sinister occurrence that he never
again showed himself in Amiens and his fate remains a mystery.
--- Ambrose Bierce
From: Tin Gherdanarra
Subject: Re: Kenny, did you write this article?!? (Cells)
Date:
Message-ID: <4gjajsF1nnoc6U1@individual.net>
This is a debunker to the link in the
original post. Similiar things have been
said about softwear elseware, but this
article is particularly witty:
http://www.developerdotstar.com/mag/articles/reeves_design.html