I'm thinking about adding a Lisp listener to Graphic-Forms, and was
hoping to get some input from you all. Do you think it is:
a) a "must have" feature if GF is to be taken seriously
b) a "nice-to-have" feature that you could live without
(note -- thinking of the availability of SLIME or
commercial IDEs as I write this)
c) more important to make sure apps built with GF have
the right building blocks for a listener, rather than
bundling one directly with the library proper
d) a complete waste of time
???
Thanks in advance.
--
Jack Unrue
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: input requested: adding a REPL to a UI library
Date:
Message-ID: <WDHsg.57$yS1.16@fe09.lga>
Jack Unrue wrote:
> I'm thinking about adding a Lisp listener to Graphic-Forms, and was
> hoping to get some input from you all. Do you think it is:
>
> a) a "must have" feature if GF is to be taken seriously
>
> b) a "nice-to-have" feature that you could live without
> (note -- thinking of the availability of SLIME or
> commercial IDEs as I write this)
Hmm. This is a win32 project. Clisp is the only Lisp there without an
IDE. Of course I understand if you are just looking for demo project a
little more sensible than this one:
http://www.tilton-technology.com/lotsawidgets.jpg
But I may have a better idea (below):
>
> c) more important to make sure apps built with GF have
> the right building blocks for a listener, rather than
> bundling one directly with the library proper
Well the stumper for me here is what building blocks even would be
needed by a listener, which is generally just a glorified command line.
Why not give CLisp some GUI inspector tools, such as a wrapper for
apropos-list? ACL has a bunch of good ones to rip-off. Or you can do a
multi-file "find" dialog with all sorts of bells and whistles. Again,
see ACL for a reasonable one.
I think these are as realistic as you can get widget and design-wise,
and incredibly useful in development if kicked off by keystrokes from Emacs.
hth
kenny
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> Jack Unrue wrote:
>> I'm thinking about adding a Lisp listener to Graphic-Forms, and was
>> hoping to get some input from you all. Do you think it is:
>> a) a "must have" feature if GF is to be taken seriously
>> b) a "nice-to-have" feature that you could live without
>> (note -- thinking of the availability of SLIME or
>> commercial IDEs as I write this)
>
> Hmm. This is a win32 project. Clisp is the only Lisp there without an
> IDE.
Wrong.
There are TWO IDE that can work with clisp on MS-Windows, one specific:
http://lemonodor.com/archives/000901.html
http://student.agh.edu.pl/~kwlodarc/visualclisp/pliki/v3.1415/VCLsetup.exe
one generic:
http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
WARNING: This product warps space and time in its vicinity.
From: Ken
Subject: Re: input requested: adding a REPL to a UI library
Date:
Message-ID: <fJJsg.62$yS1.10@fe09.lga>
Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
> Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>Jack Unrue wrote:
>>
>>>I'm thinking about adding a Lisp listener to Graphic-Forms, and was
>>>hoping to get some input from you all. Do you think it is:
>>>a) a "must have" feature if GF is to be taken seriously
>>>b) a "nice-to-have" feature that you could live without
>>> (note -- thinking of the availability of SLIME or
>>> commercial IDEs as I write this)
>>
>>Hmm. This is a win32 project. Clisp is the only Lisp there without an
>>IDE.
>
>
> Wrong.
>
>
> There are TWO IDE that can work with clisp on MS-Windows, one specific:
>
> http://lemonodor.com/archives/000901.html
> http://student.agh.edu.pl/~kwlodarc/visualclisp/pliki/v3.1415/VCLsetup.exe
I tried that once, looked decent. But now the archives won't open under
winzip or picozip. besides, the banner /there/ thanks george bush, a war
criminal and mass murderer. thx but no thx.
>
>
> one generic:
>
> http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/
>
>
you have not been paying attention.
kt
From: Ken
Subject: Re: input requested: adding a REPL to a UI library
Date:
Message-ID: <y4Ksg.19$Fu1.9@fe11.lga>
Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
> Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>Jack Unrue wrote:
>>
>>>I'm thinking about adding a Lisp listener to Graphic-Forms, and was
>>>hoping to get some input from you all. Do you think it is:
>>>a) a "must have" feature if GF is to be taken seriously
>>>b) a "nice-to-have" feature that you could live without
>>> (note -- thinking of the availability of SLIME or
>>> commercial IDEs as I write this)
>>
>>Hmm. This is a win32 project. Clisp is the only Lisp there without an
>>IDE.
>
>
> Wrong.
>
>
> There are TWO IDE that can work with clisp on MS-Windows, one specific:
>
> http://lemonodor.com/archives/000901.html
> http://student.agh.edu.pl/~kwlodarc/visualclisp/pliki/v3.1415/VCLsetup.exe
Ah, turns out I still had VCL installed on my laptop, which is headed to
NYC tomorrow to dazzle the Lispnyks.
Not as nice as I remembered. Nothing more than a text editor and a
compiler. That's about as much IDE as teletype.
kt
Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
> There are TWO IDE that can work with clisp on MS-Windows, one specific:
>
> http://lemonodor.com/archives/000901.html
> http://student.agh.edu.pl/~kwlodarc/visualclisp/pliki/v3.1415/VCLsetup.exe
The author provides the source, too, and the IDE is written in C++ with
Visual C++. So looks like he assumes that it is a good idea to use C++, if
you want to write some real programs, like a Lisp IDE :-)
--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:27:57 +0200, Pascal Bourguignon <···@informatimago.com> wrote:
>
>http://lemonodor.com/archives/000901.html
>http://student.agh.edu.pl/~kwlodarc/visualclisp/pliki/v3.1415/VCLsetup.exe
Thanks, Pascal. I didn't know about that one.
--
Jack Unrue
On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:34:10 -0400, Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Jack Unrue wrote:
>> I'm thinking about adding a Lisp listener to Graphic-Forms, and was
>> hoping to get some input from you all. Do you think it is:
>>
>> a) a "must have" feature if GF is to be taken seriously
>>
>> b) a "nice-to-have" feature that you could live without
>> (note -- thinking of the availability of SLIME or
>> commercial IDEs as I write this)
>
>Hmm. This is a win32 project. Clisp is the only Lisp there without an
>IDE. Of course I understand if you are just looking for demo project a
>little more sensible than this one:
>
> http://www.tilton-technology.com/lotsawidgets.jpg
Well, this would be intended as a real feature, if I did it.
Does ECL have an IDE?
>But I may have a better idea (below):
>
>>
>> c) more important to make sure apps built with GF have
>> the right building blocks for a listener, rather than
>> bundling one directly with the library proper
>
>Well the stumper for me here is what building blocks even would be
>needed by a listener, which is generally just a glorified command line.
Heh. Even a command-line has a history buffer, and completion,
maybe some syntax highlighting. Some stuff that the Win32 edit control
doesn't support. Not to mention clipboard support. Maybe the syntax
highlighting would go so far as to provide clickable links for symbols
so you could invoke help or see source code? So I'm thinking you'd build
the listener starting at a lower level. I should do some prototyping.
>Why not give CLisp some GUI inspector tools, such as a wrapper for
>apropos-list? ACL has a bunch of good ones to rip-off. Or you can do a
>multi-file "find" dialog with all sorts of bells and whistles. Again,
>see ACL for a reasonable one.
OK, good ideas to think about.
>I think these are as realistic as you can get widget and design-wise,
>and incredibly useful in development if kicked off by keystrokes from Emacs.
>
>hth
>kenny
Thanks much for your thoughts!
--
Jack Unrue