admittedly, I am quite the newb to computers and everything, and pretty
willing to try out new stuff. Anyway, I have recently decided that I
would like to focus a lot on developing with lisp, so I was wondering
what recommendations for an operating system or whatever n00b hints
anybody may have. Thanks!
From: Eric Hanchrow
Subject: Re: best os for lisp development?
Date:
Message-ID: <871wxuvhom.fsf@blarg.net>
>>>>> "ged273" == ged273 <······@gmail.com> writes:
ged273> what recommendations for an operating system or whatever
ged273> n00b hints anybody may have. Thanks!
If you want to use a commercial Lisp, then I'd suggest whichever
platform seems to be best supported. If you want a Free Lisp, then
Linux or one of the BSDs.
In any case, Windows is almost certainly not what you want.
--
"New York Minute" is a textbook example of a film created as
a "vehicle" but without any ideas about where the vehicle should
go.
-- Roger Ebert
yeah, im gonna be (trying) to use linux or a bsd. I was just wondering
if support was different among the different types of linuxes and bsds,
or if it really doesnt matter.
······@gmail.com wrote:
> yeah, im gonna be (trying) to use linux or a bsd. I was just wondering
> if support was different among the different types of linuxes and bsds,
> or if it really doesnt matter.
The best out of the box support with Linux is offered by Debian, and
any distributions based on it. Gentoo also offers lots of Lisp
packages, but not as many as Debian; and while it offers even more
control over the system that also means it's more work (the Linux side,
not the Lisp side).
--
Christopher
On 22 Feb 2006 22:08:25 -0800, "Christopher Koppler" <········@chello.at> wrote:
> The best out of the box support with Linux is offered by Debian, and
> any distributions based on it. Gentoo also offers lots of Lisp
> packages, but not as many as Debian
Is that statement based on hard facts or on personal belief? I have a
Debian testing system here and apt-cache says there are 140 packages
with a name starting with 'cl-'. According to packages.gentoo.org
there are 189 packages with a name like that in the category
'dev-lisp' alone. Yes, I'm aware that this is no scientific method to
measure the Lisp support of a Linux distribution, but I see no
evidence that Debian offers more (Common) Lisp packages than Gentoo.
--
European Common Lisp Meeting 2006: <http://weitz.de/eclm2006/>
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Edi Weitz> Is that statement based on hard facts or on personal belief?
That statement was based on hard facts from about a year or so ago -
I'm using Gentoo but haven't bothered to check how many more
cl-packages there are now, which is of course great.
I'm off to the flagellant's corner now.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:33:41 +0100, Edi Weitz wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2006 22:08:25 -0800, "Christopher Koppler" <········@chello.at> wrote:
>
> According to packages.gentoo.org there are 189 packages with a name
> like that in the category 'dev-lisp' alone. Yes, I'm aware that this is
> no scientific method to measure the Lisp support of a Linux
> distribution, but I see no evidence that Debian offers more (Common)
> Lisp packages than Gentoo.
Also (and this may true of BSD port systems as well) it's relatively
simple in many cases to leverage the Gentoo package system to support
cleanly installing custom versions of existing packages, as well as
installing some packages that aren't supported at all.
Matt
--
"You do not really understand something unless you can
explain it to your grandmother." — Albert Einstein.
In di Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:08:25 -0800, Christopher Koppler pa grafo (vide:
www.glosa.org):
> ······@gmail.com wrote:
>> yeah, im gonna be (trying) to use linux or a bsd. I was just wondering
>> if support was different among the different types of linuxes and bsds,
>> or if it really doesnt matter.
>
> The best out of the box support with Linux is offered by Debian, and
> any distributions based on it. Gentoo also offers lots of Lisp
> packages, but not as many as Debian; and while it offers even more
> control over the system that also means it's more work (the Linux side,
> not the Lisp side).
Just a note: Debian as in "sid", whatever sid is nowadays. Otherwise
you're going to be, say, a year and a half behind.
I'd settle for Ubuntu or Gentoo, so you can have a whole system more or
less up-to-date.
I don't really think you need the niceties Debian has to
offer compensate for the delays, or the security risk of sid, since you
can use asdf and asdf-install.
Eric Hanchrow wrote:
>>>>>>"ged273" == ged273 <······@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
> ged273> what recommendations for an operating system or whatever
> ged273> n00b hints anybody may have. Thanks!
>
> If you want to use a commercial Lisp, then I'd suggest whichever
> platform seems to be best supported. If you want a Free Lisp, then
> Linux or one of the BSDs.
>
> In any case, Windows is almost certainly not what you want.
>
No, that is wrong. I hate Windows... uh, wait, there goes my karma, ok,
Windows is definitely a regular challenge to my patience, but I use it
because that is the only place AllegroCL's IDE runs. I heard talk of a
port to other OSes, but nothing more than that.
The important thing to me is programming Lisp, and Windows, as bad as it
is, works well enough to let me work.
Jeez I wish Franz would get on with it and release a Mac port, but the
IDE they have on Windows is too good to do without. Getting better all
the time, btw.
kt
From: Duane Rettig
Subject: Re: best os for lisp development?
Date:
Message-ID: <o0oe0ygiof.fsf@franz.com>
Kenny Tilton <·············@nyc.rr.com> writes:
> Eric Hanchrow wrote:
>>>>>>>"ged273" == ged273 <······@gmail.com> writes:
>> ged273> what recommendations for an operating system or whatever
>> ged273> n00b hints anybody may have. Thanks!
>> If you want to use a commercial Lisp, then I'd suggest whichever
>> platform seems to be best supported. If you want a Free Lisp, then
>> Linux or one of the BSDs.
>> In any case, Windows is almost certainly not what you want.
>>
>
> No, that is wrong. I hate Windows... uh, wait, there goes my karma,
> ok, Windows is definitely a regular challenge to my patience, but I
> use it because that is the only place AllegroCL's IDE runs. I heard
> talk of a port to other OSes, but nothing more than that.
I think your information is a little out of date. Look at
http://www.franz.com/products/integrated_dev_env/ and look at
the second line (and the first full paragraph). I'm sure there will
be more systems listed there in the future, since the underlying
graphics package for the linux verson is GTK.
> The important thing to me is programming Lisp, and Windows, as bad as
> it is, works well enough to let me work.
>
> Jeez I wish Franz would get on with it and release a Mac port, but the
> IDE they have on Windows is too good to do without. Getting better all
> the time, btw.
>
> kt
--
Duane Rettig ·····@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
Duane Rettig wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <·············@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>
>
>>Eric Hanchrow wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>"ged273" == ged273 <······@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> ged273> what recommendations for an operating system or whatever
>>> ged273> n00b hints anybody may have. Thanks!
>>>If you want to use a commercial Lisp, then I'd suggest whichever
>>>platform seems to be best supported. If you want a Free Lisp, then
>>>Linux or one of the BSDs.
>>>In any case, Windows is almost certainly not what you want.
>>>
>>
>>No, that is wrong. I hate Windows... uh, wait, there goes my karma,
>>ok, Windows is definitely a regular challenge to my patience, but I
>>use it because that is the only place AllegroCL's IDE runs. I heard
>>talk of a port to other OSes, but nothing more than that.
>
>
> I think your information is a little out of date. Look at
> http://www.franz.com/products/integrated_dev_env/ and look at
> the second line (and the first full paragraph).
You count Linux as an operating system? I thought that was continuing
education in systems management, plus an opportunity to work unpaid
harder than you do at work. :)
No, OK, I saw that, forgot all about it. My bad.
I'm sure there will
> be more systems listed there in the future, since the underlying
> graphics package for the linux verson is GTK.
And Gtk runs on OS X under X11. So....?
Hey, how about Tk? That is Aqua. My Celtk (+ Cells Tk) hack is almost
ready for production work. I could use the work. Wnat me to port your
IDE to Aqua? I'll just want a retainer and royalty on future Franz
revenue. :)
kenny
Kenny Tilton wrote:
> You count Linux as an operating system? I thought that was continuing
> education in systems management, plus an opportunity to work unpaid
> harder than you do at work. :)
Is that not a system of operating?
I got sticker shock on Franz so even with a super IDE on something
other than Windows <e-v-i-l>, I chose differently. Among commerical
implementations I chose Lispworks which I understand is about equally
supported on Linux, OS X and Windows (I run it on a Mac) for less $$$
and what looks like less restrictions. I also spend some time with
SBCL on linux and with OpenMCL on the Mac. I believe in lisp and I
think a true lisp resurgence is going to require really good Open
Source implementations.
- s
In di Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:10:33 -0800, Eric Hanchrow pa grafo (vide:
www.glosa.org):
>>>>>> "ged273" == ged273 <······@gmail.com> writes:
>
> ged273> what recommendations for an operating system or whatever
> ged273> n00b hints anybody may have. Thanks!
>
> If you want to use a commercial Lisp, then I'd suggest whichever
> platform seems to be best supported. If you want a Free Lisp, then
> Linux or one of the BSDs.
>
Not all Lisps will run on all BSDs. The best BSD would be
FreeBSD. In particular, CMUCL only works on Linux and FreeBSD.
OpenBSD runs ECL and CLisp. It can probably compile SBCL (hence, CMUCL? -
nobody's tried it). I don't know what the problem is, really. Maybe lack
of POSIX compliance...and on OpenBSD there are problems for some of the
garbage collectors due to its security features.
······@gmail.com writes:
> admittedly, I am quite the newb to computers and everything, and pretty
> willing to try out new stuff. Anyway, I have recently decided that I
> would like to focus a lot on developing with lisp, so I was wondering
> what recommendations for an operating system or whatever n00b hints
> anybody may have. Thanks!
The BEST OS for lisp development is Symbolics' Genera.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
ADVISORY: There is an extremely small but nonzero chance that,
through a process known as "tunneling," this product may
spontaneously disappear from its present location and reappear at
any random place in the universe, including your neighbor's
domicile. The manufacturer will not be responsible for any damages
or inconveniences that may result.
BR <······@comcast.com> writes:
> Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
>
>> The BEST OS for lisp development is Symbolics' Genera.
>
> Good luck on getting that to work.
That's not hard at all. Switch on the box, type "hello" and "boot" at
the FEP-prompt, and wait.
...Peder...
--
This must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I prefer using SBCL under Linux with Emacs + Slime as IDE/editor.
SBCL is in the progress (first working port came out just now) of being
ported to Windows, so I'll worry about that later; and do the
development under this OS which is much much nicer to work in than
Windows.
I'd go for Ubuntu.
--
mvh,
Lars Rune Nøstdal
Disclaimer: I'm completely new to Linux and have very little knowledge
of distros, Lisp, and programming.
I use Ubuntu; I've found it and the community to be very friendly to
newbies. However, I've haven't found a lot of support for Common Lisp.
If you do decide to use Ubuntu, there is line that you can add to your
sources.list at
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=99821&page=2&highlight=lisp
that has Slime, a current SBCL, and number of other helpful things.
This allows you to just use a package manager and avoid dependency
issues for CL stuff.
I wish I would have found out about it earlier. If you need any other
help with Ubuntu I recommend using the forums. I hope this wasn't too
basic; I thought I'd put it up for anyone else searching the forums.
In di Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:39:39 -0800, KarlEdler pa grafo (vide:
www.glosa.org):
> Disclaimer: I'm completely new to Linux and have very little knowledge
> of distros, Lisp, and programming.
>
> I use Ubuntu;
Have you tried to run LispWorks under Ubuntu?
I couldn't, got weird bugs on Hoary.
In di Mon, 27 Feb 2006 21:01:47 -0800, Tolstoy pa grafo (vide:
www.glosa.org):
> You have to comment out the font declarations in the config file, then
> it works. Butt-ugly, but it works. ;)
Ugh! Will try that, thanks! (LispWork just ignores Debian and etc after
all these years, doesn't it?)
In article <························@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
Tolstoy <···········@gmail.com> wrote:
> You have to comment out the font declarations in the config file, then
> it [Lispworks] works. Butt-ugly, but it works. ;)
Strangely, I just have to run "xset fp" first to rehash the font path
and then it works fine with the normal app-defaults.
I think the conclusion on the Lispworks list is that it's an xorg bug.
-bcd
--
*** Brian Downing <bdowning at lavos dot net>
······@gmail.com wrote:
> admittedly, I am quite the newb to computers and everything, and pretty
> willing to try out new stuff. Anyway, I have recently decided that I
> would like to focus a lot on developing with lisp, so I was wondering
> what recommendations for an operating system or whatever n00b hints
> anybody may have. Thanks!
>
You might look at Movitz:
http://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/movitz.html