From: Ken Tilton
Subject: [OT] "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <ZrQlh.7$IQ3.5@newsfe10.lga>
I am not making this up. Flying west a passenger had trouble with their
personal seat-back whoop-de-do video screen. Steward announces, "We will
now be resetting all videos to get this person back on line. Sorry." We
all then watch redhat linux reboot. No, I am not kidding. The entire
console log scrolling by.
Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
The best part is that it was free!
<sigh>
kt
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
Ken Tilton wrote:
> I am not making this up. Flying west a passenger had trouble with their
> personal seat-back whoop-de-do video screen. Steward announces, "We will
> now be resetting all videos to get this person back on line. Sorry." We
> all then watch redhat linux reboot. No, I am not kidding. The entire
> console log scrolling by.
>
> Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
> every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
> some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
> Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
>
> The best part is that it was free!
I would say exactly the same occurs with Windows, except that the best
part is that you paid for it!
http://www.windowscrash.com/modules.php?set_albumName=pictures&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Brad
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <6USlh.11$aD4.9@newsfe11.lga>
bradb wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>I am not making this up. Flying west a passenger had trouble with their
>>personal seat-back whoop-de-do video screen. Steward announces, "We will
>>now be resetting all videos to get this person back on line. Sorry." We
>>all then watch redhat linux reboot. No, I am not kidding. The entire
>>console log scrolling by.
>>
>>Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
>>every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
>>some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
>>Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
>>
>>The best part is that it was free!
>
>
> I would say exactly the same occurs with Windows, except that the best
> part is that you paid for it!
> http://www.windowscrash.com/modules.php?set_albumName=pictures&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
>
> Brad
>
C'mon, kiddies, try to keep up: this was (a) normal operating procedure
(seeing the boot process scroll by) and (b) on two flights I saw several
failures.
This is wholly unrelated to the fact illustrated in the links that
software /sometimes/ crashes (unless the multiple failures I saw on the
two flights were just a statistical aberration, but the way the flight
crew responded suggested not).
Well, to be fair, maybe it is just Delta's techies or somethin. But it
was pretty funny/sad.
kt
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
From: Wade Humeniuk
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <qyTlh.110477$hn.56195@edtnps82>
Ken Tilton wrote:
>
> C'mon, kiddies, try to keep up: this was (a) normal operating procedure
> (seeing the boot process scroll by) and (b) on two flights I saw several
> failures.
>
> This is wholly unrelated to the fact illustrated in the links that
> software /sometimes/ crashes (unless the multiple failures I saw on the
> two flights were just a statistical aberration, but the way the flight
> crew responded suggested not).
>
> Well, to be fair, maybe it is just Delta's techies or somethin. But it
> was pretty funny/sad.
>
Was it the same plane on both flights? If it was it is likely that there
is a hardware glitch (bad RAM or Bus or ...) instead. I think a lot of
bad press software got in the past was because of poor PC hardware.
Wade
From: Pascal Bourguignon
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <87odpjltnc.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com>
"bradb" <··············@gmail.com> writes:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>> I am not making this up. Flying west a passenger had trouble with their
>> personal seat-back whoop-de-do video screen. Steward announces, "We will
>> now be resetting all videos to get this person back on line. Sorry." We
>> all then watch redhat linux reboot. No, I am not kidding. The entire
>> console log scrolling by.
>>
>> Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
>> every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
>> some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
>> Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
>>
>> The best part is that it was free!
>
> I would say exactly the same occurs with Windows, except that the best
> part is that you paid for it!
> http://www.windowscrash.com/modules.php?set_albumName=pictures&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
The worst part is that you'd know how to do this well, I'd know how to
do it well, but they still choosed the lowest and most incompetent
bidder...
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
READ THIS BEFORE OPENING PACKAGE: According to certain suggested
versions of the Grand Unified Theory, the primary particles
constituting this product may decay to nothingness within the next
four hundred million years.
From: Josip Gracin
Subject: Re: [OT] "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <en8p1s$f7h$1@sunce.iskon.hr>
Ken Tilton wrote:
> Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
> every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
> some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
> Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
>
> The best part is that it was free!
I agree. It would have been much better if the entertainment system had
been implemented using some commercial OS in which case the pilot
would've been able to call support instead of begging for help at
comp.os.linux.misc.
Josip Gracin wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
> > Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
> > every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
> > some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
> > Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
> >
> > The best part is that it was free!
>
> I agree. It would have been much better if the entertainment system had
> been implemented using some commercial OS in which case the pilot
> would've been able to call support instead of begging for help at
> comp.os.linux.misc.
I saw a cash machine recenlty that had crashed and guess what, it
showed a WINDOWS 2000 LOGIN SCREEN! ! ! !!
That was out in the street!
Paul
hyperstring.net
hyperstring.net ltd wrote:
> Josip Gracin wrote:
> > Ken Tilton wrote:
> > > Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
> > > every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
> > > some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
> > > Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
> > >
> > > The best part is that it was free!
> >
> > I agree. It would have been much better if the entertainment system had
> > been implemented using some commercial OS in which case the pilot
> > would've been able to call support instead of begging for help at
> > comp.os.linux.misc.
>
> I saw a cash machine recenlty that had crashed and guess what, it
> showed a WINDOWS 2000 LOGIN SCREEN! ! ! !!
> That was out in the street!
That's nothing. I once crashed one and found it was running Windows
98!
I've seen load of cash machines crash to Windows 2000 login screens,
and airport info systems, railway info system, payphones. I've even
seen a weights machine in a gym crash to MS-DOS.
I've seen no evidence that free or open source software is any less
reliable than other systems.
Rob Thorpe <·······@realworldtech.com> wrote:
> hyperstring.net ltd wrote:
>> Josip Gracin wrote:
>> > Ken Tilton wrote:
>> > > Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
>> > > every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
>> > > some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
>> > > Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
>> > >
>> > > The best part is that it was free!
>> >
>> > I agree. It would have been much better if the entertainment system had
>> > been implemented using some commercial OS in which case the pilot
>> > would've been able to call support instead of begging for help at
>> > comp.os.linux.misc.
>>
>> I saw a cash machine recenlty that had crashed and guess what, it
>> showed a WINDOWS 2000 LOGIN SCREEN! ! ! !!
>> That was out in the street!
>
> That's nothing. I once crashed one and found it was running Windows
> 98!
>
> I've seen load of cash machines crash to Windows 2000 login screens,
> and airport info systems, railway info system, payphones. I've even
> seen a weights machine in a gym crash to MS-DOS.
>
> I've seen no evidence that free or open source software is any less
> reliable than other systems.
As always, a fool with a tool is still a fool. If the company setting up
the systems has no clue, then using a good free software environment
only results in them not having to pay license fees instead of
delivering a good product.
And yes, I've seen too many commercial vendors delivering some
impressivly crappy solutions on free software, especially when the
vendor was hell-bent on treating $UNIX as "another kind of Windows, just
not by Microsoft". Including using such "clever" tricks as developing
exclusively on Windows, but delivering on $UNIX, using some kind of
almost, but not quite, working "compatibility libraries", sometimes
coming that ---><--- close[0] to re-inventing the WINE project.
HTH,
Alex.
[0] Yes, Pewlett-Hackard, that means you.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Rob Thorpe wrote:
<snip>
> That's nothing. I once crashed one and found it was running Windows
> 98!
>
> I've seen load of cash machines crash to Windows 2000 login screens,
> and airport info systems, railway info system, payphones. I've even
> seen a weights machine in a gym crash to MS-DOS.
Strangely enough I went through Manchester airport yesterday. One of
the info displays had crashed and was displaying a Window 98 desktop.
Thankfully there were plenty working.
From: vedm
Subject: Re: [OT] "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <VYudnXPtzemaxgXYnZ2dnUVZ_v_inZ2d@giganews.com>
Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
> I am not making this up. Flying west a passenger had trouble with their
> personal seat-back whoop-de-do video screen. Steward announces, "We will
> now be resetting all videos to get this person back on line. Sorry." We
> all then watch redhat linux reboot. No, I am not kidding. The entire
> console log scrolling by.
An here is a story which shows why many people prefer open source:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36635
--
vedm
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: [OT] "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <T4_lh.80$aD4.71@newsfe11.lga>
vedm wrote:
> Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>I am not making this up. Flying west a passenger had trouble with their
>>personal seat-back whoop-de-do video screen. Steward announces, "We will
>>now be resetting all videos to get this person back on line. Sorry." We
>>all then watch redhat linux reboot. No, I am not kidding. The entire
>>console log scrolling by.
>
>
> An here is a story which shows why many people prefer open source:
> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36635
>
No doubt. I just thought it was a nice Xmas present seeing that frickin
penguin given all the FSF bashing I do*. :) And once it booted, it /did/
work.
kt
* Actually I was hoping some yob would respond "Kenny, you dumb f*ck,
all they had to do was add "togglebit 42 -xed zork -ggl glot" as the
first line to hide the boot sequence"", then I was going to send it in
to Delta and ask for some free miles. :)
k
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
From: Cor Gest
Subject: Re: [OT] "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <87ac13e8l7.fsf@atthis.clsnet.nl>
Some entity, AKA Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com>,
wrote mindboggling stuff, instead of contemplating deep thoughts, closedeyed.
(selectively-snipped-or-not-p)
> * Actually I was hoping some yob would respond "Kenny, you dumb f*ck,
> all they had to do was add "togglebit 42 -xed zork -ggl glot" as the
> first line to hide the boot sequence"", then I was going to send it in
> to Delta and ask for some free miles. :)
Actually, there are dumb multiple if you do not stand you sit on it's.
But anyway, Happy New Year to you too
Cor
--
The biggest problem LISP has is that it does not apeal to dumb people
If this failed to satisfy you try reading the HyperSpec or woman frig
(defvar MyComputer '((OS . "GNU/Emacs") (IPL . "GNU/Linux")))
Read the policy before mailing http://www.clsnet.nl/mail.html
>>>>> "Ken" == Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> writes:
Ken> * Actually I was hoping some yob would respond "Kenny, you dumb f*ck,
Ken> all they had to do was add "togglebit 42 -xed zork -ggl glot" as the
Ken> first line to hide the boot sequence"", then I was going to send it in
Ken> to Delta and ask for some free miles. :)
I would try to direct them to the `console' option that allows console
output to be directed elsewhere than the primary output. For instance
adding the an option such as
console=/dev/ttyS0
to the kernel boot parameters would redirect the console to the serial
port (on a standard PC). Presumably the video feed is running via some
graphics system that would be unaffected by doing this.
Under the `debug' kernel option there is also some discussion about
log levels and what goes to the console.
Appropriate HOWTOs seems to be:
BootPrompt-HOWTO
Remote-Serial-Console-HOWTO
Text-Terminal-HOWTO
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Christian Lynbech | christian ··@ defun #\. dk
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual.
- ·······@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
http://www.miguelcarrasco.net/miguelcarrasco/2006/10/blue_screen_of_.html
http://daimyo.org/bsod/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
Ken Tilton wrote:
> I am not making this up. Flying west a passenger had trouble with their
> personal seat-back whoop-de-do video screen. Steward announces, "We will
> now be resetting all videos to get this person back on line. Sorry." We
> all then watch redhat linux reboot. No, I am not kidding. The entire
> console log scrolling by.
>
> Flying east, same thing, but no announcement. I guess it was happening
> every twenty minutes and they got tired of announcing the obvious. And
> some passnegers (like my brother) simply leaned over and watched the
> Giants game on my no-longer-personal video screen.
>
> The best part is that it was free!
>
> <sigh>
>
> kt
>
> --
> The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
> -- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <5Sfmh.79$Mx1.13@newsfe12.lga>
······@yepmail.net wrote:
> http://www.miguelcarrasco.net/miguelcarrasco/2006/10/blue_screen_of_.html
> http://daimyo.org/bsod/
Well if you could read you might know (if you can further think) that
this is about SOP, not crashing.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
Must be hosted by free s/w:
Firefox can't find the server at en.wikipedia.org
Is that about trolling? Nice try. I have been openly challenging the FSF
emperor's wardrobe for some time now, raising a dead serious question:
is "free" too expensive, and you try to suppress the question by
attacking my motives. Part of the FSF Swat Team, are we?
Meanwhile, elsewhere we got a useful response (to my direct Q) about how
output could have been redirected had Delta cared, and another c.l.l
denizen emailed me this link:
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/24.48.html#subj4
The second item there seems to be what I reported, and again suggests
the problem is "pilot error", not Linux.
See what a nice intelligent exchange can be had if... oh, wait, that is
the last thing you FSF fanatics want. It's great fun ripping MS, not so
much examining your own house, eh? Methinks y'all need to be a little
more consistent and a little less defensive.
On Jan 1, 10:24 pm, Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> ······@yepmail.net wrote:
> >http://www.miguelcarrasco.net/miguelcarrasco/2006/10/blue_screen_of_....
> >http://daimyo.org/bsod/
> Well if you could read you might know (if you can further think) that
> this is about SOP, not crashing.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
> Must be hosted by free s/w:
> Firefox can't find the server at en.wikipedia.org
Logic failure. Firefox displays that message if it cannot resolve the
hostname.
It is, therefore, logically impossible for Wikipedia's host to be at
fault, since
you couldn't even find it.
> Is that about trolling? Nice try. I have been openly challenging the FSF
> emperor's wardrobe for some time now, raising a dead serious question:
> is "free" too expensive, and you try to suppress the question by
> attacking my motives.
I think that accusing people who disagree with you of being unable to
read or think qualifies as trolling. I am, however, not a qualified
trollologist, so don't take that as gospel.
> Part of the FSF Swat Team, are we?
Screenshots, or it didn't happen.
> Meanwhile, elsewhere we got a useful response (to my direct Q) about how
> output could have been redirected had Delta cared
Output shouldn't need to be redirected. Bootsplash could put Delta's
logo
on the screen as the system comes up, obscuring the messages. This
would provide the passengers with more information about what's
happening with their movie than a blank screen would.
> The second item there seems to be what I reported, and again suggests
> the problem is "pilot error", not Linux.
We already knew that.
> See what a nice intelligent exchange can be had if... oh, wait, that is
> the last thing you FSF fanatics want. It's great fun ripping MS, not so
> much examining your own house, eh?
Just above you appear to accept that the fault wasn't with Linux, but
with
Delta. But last I checked, the FSF didn't own Delta Air Lines, and I
don't
suppose many people in this group work for Delta. So how is this
"our house"?
Unless you *meant* to post this to alt.airlines.delta.tech, or
something.
From: Stefan Scholl
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <0T3oer7aIqr8Nv8%stesch@parsec.no-spoon.de>
Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is that about trolling? Nice try. I have been openly challenging the FSF
> emperor's wardrobe for some time now, raising a dead serious question:
> is "free" too expensive, and you try to suppress the question by
> attacking my motives. Part of the FSF Swat Team, are we?
Ask him if he still beats his wife.
Or write a story about him, without mentioning his name. Say he
has a short penis, so he won't respond.
From: Takehiko Abe
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <keke-9BFEC0.14513902012007@nnrp.gol.com>
Ken Tilton:
> [...] I have been openly challenging the FSF
> emperor's wardrobe for some time now, raising a dead serious question:
> is "free" too expensive, [...]
FSF talks about freedom not cost.
I don't doubt that it is too expensive for you. That's too bad.
Fortunately, you have cheaper alternatives for your needs.
Enjoy them while they are available.
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <pwmmh.227$8T6.77@newsfe10.lga>
Takehiko Abe wrote:
> Ken Tilton:
>
>
>>[...] I have been openly challenging the FSF
>>emperor's wardrobe for some time now, raising a dead serious question:
>>is "free" too expensive, [...]
>
>
> FSF talks about freedom not cost.
For a reason.
>
> I don't doubt that it is too expensive for you. That's too bad.
> Fortunately, you have cheaper alternatives for your needs.
> Enjoy them while they are available.
You mean before that comet comes by and the spacecraft behind it scoops
up MS and Apple? Yeah, that does worry me. Got a rough date on that?
kt
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
From: Takehiko Abe
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <keke-521AAF.16321402012007@nnrp.gol.com>
> You mean before that comet comes by and the spacecraft behind it scoops
> up MS and Apple? Yeah, that does worry me. Got a rough date on that?
>
No and no. I am not good at predicting the future.
But I don't trust them. They can screw us up without going out
of business anytime whenever it makes a business sense.
For instance, there has been a rumor that Apple is going to
switch from PPC to Intel for some time now. I think it might
be possible.
Anyways, the future is too unpredictable but the fact that
I am using Unix instead of a Lisp OS.... oh well, "a dead serious
question"??? gee
> The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
I am sure his holiness would agree more with RMS than you.
Try Ann Coulter instead. This is c.l.l.
In article <··························@nnrp.gol.com>,
Takehiko Abe <····@gol.com> wrote:
> But I don't trust them. They can screw us up without going out
> of business anytime whenever it makes a business sense.
> For instance, there has been a rumor that Apple is going to
> switch from PPC to Intel for some time now. I think it might
> be possible.
A "rumor"? "Going to switch"? Apple has been shipping exclusively
Intel-based computers for almost a year now.
Anyway, what about the switch from PowerPC leads you to believe that
companies can't be trusted to make software?
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <xWpmh.105$PF7.95@newsfe08.lga>
Bill Atkins wrote:
> In article <··························@nnrp.gol.com>,
> Takehiko Abe <····@gol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>But I don't trust them. They can screw us up without going out
>>of business anytime whenever it makes a business sense.
>>For instance, there has been a rumor that Apple is going to
>>switch from PPC to Intel for some time now. I think it might
>>be possible.
>
>
> A "rumor"? "Going to switch"? Apple has been shipping exclusively
> Intel-based computers for almost a year now.
I was going to say the past is not so hard to predict. :) Anyway...
>
> Anyway, what about the switch from PowerPC leads you to believe that
> companies can't be trusted to make software?
Word. Apple has tremendous customer loyalty (forget the marketspeak
term) yet have twice gone to herculean lengths to smooth the transition
from first OS9 to OS X and then PPC to Intel. Wait, I missed 68k series
chips to PPC, right? Yeah, I had to do fat binaries long before OS X.
OK, three times.
I guess even with the loyalty they still did not want to risk losing
what share they have, so it is not clear exactly how free businesses are
to screw us. MS is just a little nastier because of its monopolistic
thing, but not so much as to have me hordeing win98 install disks.
Well, paranoia is kinda fun sometimes, more exciting than watching the
grass grow. Stocking up on bottled water to protect our precious bodily
fluids, and batteries and Honda generators and drums of gasoline and
canned goods and shotgun shells and Linux.... gotta make a video to
reassure my loved ones I am moving on to a better boot sequence.
:)
kzo
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
From: Takehiko Abe
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <keke-6D143D.22112602012007@nnrp.gol.com>
Ken Tilton:
> Word. Apple has tremendous customer loyalty (forget the marketspeak
> term) yet have twice gone to herculean lengths to smooth the transition
> from first OS9 to OS X and then PPC to Intel. Wait, I missed 68k series
> chips to PPC, right? Yeah, I had to do fat binaries long before OS X.
> OK, three times.
Herculean?! Reread your Steve Jobs:
;; "The PowerPC G5 changes all the rules. This 64-bit
;; race car is the heart of our new Power Mac G5, now
;; the world�s fastest desktop computer"
;;
;; "IBM offers the most advanced processor design and
;; manufacturing expertise on earth, and this is just
;; the beginning of a long and productive relationship."
Call it mercurial.
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <cuwmh.17$vX6.14@newsfe12.lga>
Takehiko Abe wrote:
> Ken Tilton:
>
>
>>Word. Apple has tremendous customer loyalty (forget the marketspeak
>>term) yet have twice gone to herculean lengths to smooth the transition
>>from first OS9 to OS X and then PPC to Intel. Wait, I missed 68k series
>>chips to PPC, right? Yeah, I had to do fat binaries long before OS X.
>>OK, three times.
>
>
> Herculean?! Reread your Steve Jobs:
>
> ;; "The PowerPC G5 changes all the rules. This 64-bit
> ;; race car is the heart of our new Power Mac G5, now
> ;; the world�s fastest desktop computer"
> ;;
> ;; "IBM offers the most advanced processor design and
> ;; manufacturing expertise on earth, and this is just
> ;; the beginning of a long and productive relationship."
>
> Call it mercurial.
Without discomposing users. Meanwhile a Linux user installs one new
package and their entire system is broken for a week. Charming.
:)
kzo
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
Ken Tilton wrote:
> Takehiko Abe wrote:
> > Ken Tilton:
> >
> >
> >>Word. Apple has tremendous customer loyalty (forget the marketspeak
> >>term) yet have twice gone to herculean lengths to smooth the transition
> >>from first OS9 to OS X and then PPC to Intel. Wait, I missed 68k series
> >>chips to PPC, right? Yeah, I had to do fat binaries long before OS X.
> >>OK, three times.
> >
> >
> > Herculean?! Reread your Steve Jobs:
> >
> > ;; "The PowerPC G5 changes all the rules. This 64-bit
> > ;; race car is the heart of our new Power Mac G5, now
> > ;; the world¹s fastest desktop computer"
> > ;;
> > ;; "IBM offers the most advanced processor design and
> > ;; manufacturing expertise on earth, and this is just
> > ;; the beginning of a long and productive relationship."
> >
> > Call it mercurial.
>
> Without discomposing users. Meanwhile a Linux user installs one new
> package and their entire system is broken for a week. Charming.
>
> :)
>
> kzo
>
> --
> The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
> -- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
I do an update every month of all my packages from Debian unstable. I
have never had my entire system break for a week. Only postfix has
given me some problems in the past, more than two years ago, and never
longer than a day.
(Yeah, yeah, anecdotal evidence, but my data series about running and
upgrading Linux goes back to 1999, and in the past I even upgraded
almost every day from Linux testing or unstable, so that makes a serie
of 2000 points, in which I have at most 100 small problems, for which I
could find the causes in less than an hour, and which came from either
bad hardware at some point, or an error from the package maintainer.
Oh, and my wife and father also use Linux. My father only calls when he
needs information about using a program, never about malware.)
From: Tim X
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <873b6px839.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au>
"jurgen_defurne" <··············@pandora.be> writes:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>> Takehiko Abe wrote:
>> > Ken Tilton:
>> >
>> >
>> >>Word. Apple has tremendous customer loyalty (forget the marketspeak
>> >>term) yet have twice gone to herculean lengths to smooth the transition
>> >>from first OS9 to OS X and then PPC to Intel. Wait, I missed 68k series
>> >>chips to PPC, right? Yeah, I had to do fat binaries long before OS X.
>> >>OK, three times.
>> >
>> >
>> > Herculean?! Reread your Steve Jobs:
>> >
>> > ;; "The PowerPC G5 changes all the rules. This 64-bit
>> > ;; race car is the heart of our new Power Mac G5, now
>> > ;; the world¹s fastest desktop computer"
>> > ;;
>> > ;; "IBM offers the most advanced processor design and
>> > ;; manufacturing expertise on earth, and this is just
>> > ;; the beginning of a long and productive relationship."
>> >
>> > Call it mercurial.
>>
>> Without discomposing users. Meanwhile a Linux user installs one new
>> package and their entire system is broken for a week. Charming.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> kzo
>>
>> --
>> The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
>> -- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
>
> I do an update every month of all my packages from Debian unstable. I
> have never had my entire system break for a week. Only postfix has
> given me some problems in the past, more than two years ago, and never
> longer than a day.
>
> (Yeah, yeah, anecdotal evidence, but my data series about running and
> upgrading Linux goes back to 1999, and in the past I even upgraded
> almost every day from Linux testing or unstable, so that makes a serie
> of 2000 points, in which I have at most 100 small problems, for which I
> could find the causes in less than an hour, and which came from either
> bad hardware at some point, or an error from the package maintainer.
> Oh, and my wife and father also use Linux. My father only calls when he
> needs information about using a program, never about malware.)
>
More anecdotal evidence.....
I have been running GNU Linux since 1993 and have never had my system unusable
for a week. I have had the occasional problem which may take a few hours to
fix, but I tend to run the latest version of many packages, which are often in
beta status, so I expect some glitches. I've never had any problems if I run
the latest stable release of a GNU Linux distribution.
and some more .....
In 1996 I helped establish a medium sized ISP, which was sold 5 years later for
a very healthy profit. Initially, based on Sun hardware and OS, all servers
were replaced with Red hat Linux and in addition to greatly reduced capital
tied up in hardware/software, we observed a significant increase in uptimes and
system reliability.
some more ....
Up until about 18 months ago, I managed a medium sized data centre with a local
network of about 8,000 desktops, a total of around 30,000 users, Oracle
databases providing various information and transaction processing services
etc. Originally it was a mixture of Tru64 on Alpha servers, MS Windows servers
and GNU Linux servers. Nearly all the Unix systems have been replaced with GNU
Linux, with the final two being replaced in the next couple of months (GNU
Linux clusters). Maintenance overheads and licensing costs on the GNU Linux
platforms are a fraction of the overheads we have with the MS Windows servers.
and we could go on infinitum
To be fair, the stability and reliability of MS Windows has improved *a lot*
since the late 90s and I would say that we see similar performance on many
metrics between MS and GNU Linux these days. However, maintenance and constant
updates to protect against virus/malware/security holes means the Windows
environment consumes a lot more resources than the GNU Linux environment in
order to provide similar quality of service.
There are a number of dimensions someone could attack GNU Linux on, including
things such as differences in philosophy and possible negative impact to the
economics of ICT, uncertain roadmap/evolution etc. However, to attack it on the
basis of stability is laughable, especially when compared to the company which
has spawned a whole anti-virus industry, brought us the BSOD and convinced the
majority of end-users that system crashes and the need to reboot every day was
normal operating procedure!
"Debates" like this one remind me of school yard arguements about which car
manufacturer was better, Holden or Ford. They were rarely based on any
quantifiable evidence and rarely came to an acceptable resolution - most of the
time, they were based on individual personalities and an immature desire to try
and bait others. Often they were perpetrated by someone with substantial
insecurities who was usually intelligent, but lacking in emotional maturity and
having failed to achieve the level of social acceptance and popularity they
desired, over compensate by withdrawing into a protective bubble of arrogance
in which they try to justify their superiority through pseudo intellectual
debate and word play.
Lets just let this pointless religious thread die or move it to another forum.
Tim
--
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:22:18 +1100, <····@nospam.dev.null> wrote:
> "jurgen_defurne" <··············@pandora.be> writes:
>
> To be fair, the stability and reliability of MS Windows has improved
> *a lot* since the late 90s and I would say that we see similar
> performance on many metrics between MS and GNU Linux these days.
Yes. That XP reinstall (which took a week of trials and error, last
month -- tis OK, I had a better hostname for the box when I was done)
was on a box that had run fine for several years, a record!. Most
prior MS installs (for me) could not last more than 5 months before
they crashed too much to be useful. Of course, over that time I have
stopped asking MS to do anything complex too. Now if XP only
understood the concept of mountpoints.....
As for Linux, last time I was down for a week was when I installed it
for the first time, kernel 1.1.38 [whenever that was released] didn't
have the right cdrom support [Yggdrasil was the first cdrom linux
install] and it took a week to figure that out, usenet was different
back then and I was too new.
--
There are no average Common Lisp programmers
Reply-To: email is ignored.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <RRSph.149$yZ1.3@newsfe10.lga>
GP lisper wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:22:18 +1100, <····@nospam.dev.null> wrote:
>
>>"jurgen_defurne" <··············@pandora.be> writes:
>>
>>To be fair, the stability and reliability of MS Windows has improved
>>*a lot* since the late 90s and I would say that we see similar
>>performance on many metrics between MS and GNU Linux these days.
>
>
> Yes. That XP reinstall...
There's your mistake. You were supposed to buy a new box. 5-10 hours
work equiv depending on how you bill your time. I see elsewhere you
already know the other MS survival skills: don't ask it to do too much,
install as little as possible, expect the inconceivably stupid behavior...
:)
kt
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
From: Neil Cerutti
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <slrneqfra7.1hk.horpner@FIAD06.norwich.edu>
On 2007-01-12, GP lisper <········@CloudDancer.com> wrote:
> Yes. That XP reinstall (which took a week of trials and error,
> last month -- tis OK, I had a better hostname for the box when
> I was done) was on a box that had run fine for several years, a
> record!. Most prior MS installs (for me) could not last more
> than 5 months before they crashed too much to be useful. Of
> course, over that time I have stopped asking MS to do anything
> complex too. Now if XP only understood the concept of
> mountpoints.....
Actually, it does have that.
From "Computer Management", select the Disk Management widget.
Right-click on a partition, and select "Change Drive Letter and
Path...". I haven't used it for anything but drive letters,
though.
This works in Windows 2000 as well. I just used it to mount my C
drive as a folder on my C drive. But I'll likely undo it soon. ;-)
--
Neil Cerutti
It will work out, somehow. That's a hell of a duo right there, Marbury,
Crawford and Houston. --Carmelo Anthony
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:17:31 -0500, <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Meanwhile a Linux user installs one new
> package and their entire system is broken for a week. Charming.
No. A new linux user [1] has that problem, and mostly because their
brain is ruined by prior extensive MS usage. MS has only
'magical-graphical-crappy-installs' and when they crap out, MS users
are totally fricken lost. Such newbies, unable to think much, don't
know that actual linux users merely look behind the scenes of their
insert-brand-name-here installer and adjust it to work. Outside of
Red Hat that is, Red Hat pulls off MS-class moves with stuff like
'distributing the new rpm in the new rpm format' so that existing
users cannot utilize the new stuff -- with the same result, user gotta
pay more bucks and do a new install.
Enjoying Vista yet?
[1] I installed LINUX somehow yesterday, so today I am a power linux
user and can freely spread my uberness all over the net bitching about
a stupid install mistake I made. <- same as some of those CL 'users'
appearing here regularly. And if getting linux installed doesn't
convince you that "I know Linux", just the week before, I installed 3
distros of Linux too! All on a dual boot box.... no one on dual boot
learns the other OS.
Oh well, Happy New Year!
--
There are no average Common Lisp programmers
Reply-To: email is ignored.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <CCRph.164$rG4.32@newsfe11.lga>
GP lisper wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:17:31 -0500, <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Meanwhile a Linux user installs one new
>>package and their entire system is broken for a week. Charming.
>
>
> No. A new linux user [1] has that problem, and mostly because their
> brain is ruined by prior extensive MS usage. MS has only
> 'magical-graphical-crappy-installs' and when they crap out, MS users
> are totally fricken lost. Such newbies, unable to think much, don't
> know that actual linux users merely look behind the scenes of their
> insert-brand-name-here installer and adjust it to work. Outside of
> Red Hat that is, Red Hat pulls off MS-class moves with stuff like
> 'distributing the new rpm in the new rpm format' so that existing
> users cannot utilize the new stuff -- with the same result, user gotta
> pay more bucks and do a new install.
>
> Enjoying Vista yet?
I am hoping to retire to a management role at my educational software
dynasty before that becomes necessary, or even better, hoping it is the
straw that breaks MS's back and they just slide into maintenance mode on
XP because everyone refuses to adopt Vista. Then OS X can start its slow
climb to prominence only to hauled down from behind by a LispOS, a
logical consequence once Lisp itself has taken over.
I think the thing missing from your eulogies on Linux is that (a) I was
VMS's daddy in a prior lifetime so I have no problem with the *nix
category (aka Life With a Kazillion command-line tools) and (b) His
Kennyness does not speak casually: it is hearing Linux gurus curse its
brittleness that decides the case for my2. (I myself installed from
Knoppix and did not have a problem during a one-two month port of
RoboCells to Linux.)
> Oh well, Happy New Year!
>
Word.
kenneth
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
From: John Thingstad
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <op.tl3oji1qpqzri1@pandora.upc.no>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:47:53 +0100, Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am hoping to retire to a management role at my educational software
> dynasty before that becomes necessary, or even better, hoping it is the
> straw that breaks MS's back and they just slide into maintenance mode on
> XP because everyone refuses to adopt Vista. Then OS X can start its slow
> climb to prominence only to hauled down from behind by a LispOS, a
> logical consequence once Lisp itself has taken over.
>
I've tested a Windows Vista Ultimate edition since last April.
I had some initial trouble with the graphics driver but after installing
a upgrade those problems disappeared.
Installation and use has been fairly trouble free.
For instance when I installed Vista to drive D it automatically
figured out I wanted a dual boot and set this up.
The net Nazi was not to popular and quickly got disabled.
What I really like is that you can run as a restricted user
and it will automatically ask if you want to elevate privileges.
If, say, you want to set up a printer or install some software.
The support for 3D graphics is interesting.
I've been using Visual Studio Team edition as well as Visual Expression.
Fun to play with 3D graphics and multimedia in standard bread and butter
apps.
I'm running a Dell Dimension 5150 with 2x160Gb SATA drives.
a 2.8GHz 820 processor, 1 Gb RAM, NVidea GForce 3100 TurboCache graphics
card.
Seems to work fine for me. Reliable and intuitive to use.
If you prefer Linux that is fine for me. I have used Unix systems since
1986. Of course I haven't had it installed at home since 2000.
In my experience installing Windows is a dance on roses compared to
Unix. Of course it usually comes pre-installed.
I know Microsoft bashing is in, but quite frankly it is becoming more
and more ridiculous. Whereas no major evolution has happened in Unix for
some time
(The last major contribution was Cerberos) Windows has moved ahead at a
furious rate.
Linux seems clumsy and primitive in comparison to Xp/Vista to my eye..
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
From: David Golden
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <zbdqh.17454$j7.339129@news.indigo.ie>
John Thingstad wrote:
> In my experience installing Windows is a dance on roses compared to
> Unix.
Yeah, lots of painful thorn scratches...
From: Giorgos Keramidas
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <87sleezdid.fsf@kobe.laptop>
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:10:20 +0100, "John Thingstad" <··············@chello.no> wrote:
> I know Microsoft bashing is in, but quite frankly it is becoming more and
> more ridiculous.
I can agree that ridiculously naive bashing is often the case.
> Whereas no major evolution has happened in Unix for some time (The last
> major contribution was Cerberos) Windows has moved ahead at a furious
> rate.
I don't think the last contribution of Unix was Kerberos (the word starts
with a 'K', btw). You are obviously missing important innovative offers of
the Unix crowd to the world, like virtualization, which are either
immature, incomplete, or just a joke in the Windows side of the fence.
On the other hand, Windows has been a steady force behind other important
things too, so it's silly to keep bashing Windows just because "it's so
elite to do so".
> Linux seems clumsy and primitive in comparison to Xp/Vista to my eye.
Can we, at least, agree that beauty and ugliness are in the eye of the
beholder? :)
From: Fred Gilham
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <u77ivogpc8.fsf@snapdragon.csl.sri.com>
Giorgos Keramidas <········@ceid.upatras.gr> writes:
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:10:20 +0100, "John Thingstad" <··············@chello.no> wrote:
>> I know Microsoft bashing is in, but quite frankly it is becoming more and
>> more ridiculous.
>
> I can agree that ridiculously naive bashing is often the case.
>
>> Whereas no major evolution has happened in Unix for some time (The last
>> major contribution was Cerberos) Windows has moved ahead at a furious
>> rate.
>
> I don't think the last contribution of Unix was Kerberos (the word starts
> with a 'K', btw). You are obviously missing important innovative offers of
> the Unix crowd to the world, like virtualization, which are either
> immature, incomplete, or just a joke in the Windows side of the fence.
>
> On the other hand, Windows has been a steady force behind other important
> things too, so it's silly to keep bashing Windows just because "it's so
> elite to do so".
>
>> Linux seems clumsy and primitive in comparison to Xp/Vista to my eye.
>
> Can we, at least, agree that beauty and ugliness are in the eye of the
> beholder? :)
>
I agree that Windows has been a steady force behind other important
things, namely keeping hardware manufacturers confident that there
will be a strong market for their faster CPUs, denser memories and
larger hard disks.
Oh, and where would Symantec be without Windows?
--
Fred Gilham ······@csl.sri.com
linus doesnt have what they call a GUI which means that you cant use a
mouse and click on things you have to type in words in a different
language probably finnish I dont know but it wont work unless you
speak at least 10 different languages and one of those languages has
to be a slavic language and you have a phd in 10 different languages
and also can do math real real good - From geraldholmes.freeyellow.com
Ken Tilton wrote:
> Then OS X can start its slow
> climb to prominence only to hauled down from behind by a LispOS, a
> logical consequence once Lisp itself has taken over.
I think it would be cool for somebody to implement a Lisp OS by using
the Mach kernel directly, as opposed to being a process running in the
UNIX space.
(assert (not (eql somebody *me*)))
(assert (free-p implementation)) ;freep, free?
From: Giorgos Keramidas
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <87bql2zbnd.fsf@kobe.laptop>
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:55:21 GMT, Damien Kick <·····@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>> Then OS X can start its slow climb to prominence only to
>> hauled down from behind by a LispOS, a logical consequence
>> once Lisp itself has taken over.
>
> I think it would be cool for somebody to implement a Lisp OS by using
> the Mach kernel directly, as opposed to being a process running in the
> UNIX space.
>
> (assert (not (eql somebody *me*)))
> (assert (free-p implementation)) ;freep, free?
LOL at free-p vs. freep :)))
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <nfiqh.3359$Bq.2260@newsfe09.lga>
Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:55:21 GMT, Damien Kick <·····@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Ken Tilton wrote:
>>
>>>Then OS X can start its slow climb to prominence only to
>>>hauled down from behind by a LispOS, a logical consequence
>>>once Lisp itself has taken over.
>>
>>I think it would be cool for somebody to implement a Lisp OS by using
>>the Mach kernel directly, as opposed to being a process running in the
>>UNIX space.
>>
>>(assert (not (eql somebody *me*)))
>>(assert (free-p implementation)) ;freep, free?
>
>
> LOL at free-p vs. freep :)))
>
I was thinking Damien must be having an identity crisis if he did not
feel safe using EQ. What a character!
kt
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
Ken Tilton wrote:
>
> Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:55:21 GMT, Damien Kick <·····@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> (assert (not (eql somebody *me*)))
>>> (assert (free-p implementation)) ;freep, free?
>>
>> LOL at free-p vs. freep :)))
>
> I was thinking Damien must be having an identity crisis if he did not
> feel safe using EQ. What a character!
Well, there is the id, ego, and super-ego, which an implementation may
or may not choose to fold.
From: rydis (Martin Rydstr|m) @CD.Chalmers.SE
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <w4cps8vj5im.fsf@rackham.cd.chalmers.se>
Damien Kick <·····@earthlink.net> writes:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
> I think it would be cool for somebody to implement a Lisp OS by using
> the Mach kernel directly, as opposed to being a process running in the
> UNIX space.
There are remnants from running on Mach, in CMUCL, which ran on
IBM PC/RT:s running Mach on CMU, for quite some time. It might
be possible to bring back.
Regards,
',mr
--
rydis (Martin Rydstr�m) @CD.Chalmers.SE http://www.rydis.se
[Emacs] is written in Lisp, which is the only computer language that is
beautiful. -- Neal Stephenson, _In the Beginning was the Command Line_
In article <··························@nnrp.gol.com>,
Takehiko Abe <····@gol.com> wrote:
> Ken Tilton:
>
> > Word. Apple has tremendous customer loyalty (forget the marketspeak
> > term) yet have twice gone to herculean lengths to smooth the transition
> > from first OS9 to OS X and then PPC to Intel. Wait, I missed 68k series
> > chips to PPC, right? Yeah, I had to do fat binaries long before OS X.
> > OK, three times.
>
> Herculean?! Reread your Steve Jobs:
How does this quote contradict the claim that Apple went to great pains
to make the transition not such a big deal?
> ;; "The PowerPC G5 changes all the rules. This 64-bit
> ;; race car is the heart of our new Power Mac G5, now
> ;; the world�s fastest desktop computer"
> ;;
> ;; "IBM offers the most advanced processor design and
> ;; manufacturing expertise on earth, and this is just
> ;; the beginning of a long and productive relationship."
>
> Call it mercurial.
No, I think I'd call it changing circumstances.
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 04:50:58 -0500, <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> MS is just a little nastier because of its monopolistic
> thing, but not so much as to have me hordeing win98 install disks.
I've still got mine, and glad of it. The fragile installer for XP
crapped out (what a surprise, XP cannot deal with a 60G disk on a new
puter) and the only way I could reinstall XP was going via the
'upgrade 98' route. Dothead MicroShit as usual, cannot see beyond
their nose or college textbook.
Most long time MS users can never deal with Linux, for the same reason
that most long time vi users cannot deal with emacs. They don't have
the patience to spend extra time learning something new (beyond the
time it would have taken to solve it with their known methods) that at
first appearances grants nothing new. You see the same crap from the
trolls coming here to ask 'Why is Brand X worse than CL?'.
As with a computer language, changing editors or OS requires some
strong need to carry one thru the startup learning cycle.
--
There are no average Common Lisp programmers
Reply-To: email is ignored.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: D Herring
Subject: Re: [OT] "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <092dnRp_r5NpIQTYnZ2dnUVZ_oupnZ2d@comcast.com>
Ken Tilton wrote:
...
> The best part is that it was free!
>
> <sigh>
Well, considering that (at most) 3-5% of the money paid to commercial SW
houses actually goes to R&D (i.e. writing software), I've actually
started viewing Microsoft products as actually being a perverse form of
free software. Look at Vista. Is that really worth 5 years of
multi-billion-dollar payments?
Something like 60% goes to sales/marketing, 30% goes to tech support
(e.g. "yes, that doesn't work... do this instead... doesn't work? Here,
buy the upgrade."), and the rest goes to upper management.
These are the numbers a senior guy at Oracle was boasting about a few
years ago (he said their 3-5% was "above average").
dh
P.S. The computers were crashing because they paid for Redhat.
Everyone knows Slackware is more stable. ;)
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: [OT] "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <Btjmh.80$PF7.22@newsfe08.lga>
D Herring wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
> ...
>
>> The best part is that it was free!
>>
>> <sigh>
>
>
> Well, considering that (at most) 3-5% of the money paid to commercial SW
> houses actually goes to R&D (i.e. writing software), I've actually
> started viewing Microsoft products as actually being a perverse form of
> free software.
I like it.
> Look at Vista. Is that really worth 5 years of
> multi-billion-dollar payments?
>
> Something like 60% goes to sales/marketing, 30% goes to tech support
> (e.g. "yes, that doesn't work... do this instead... doesn't work? Here,
> buy the upgrade."), and the rest goes to upper management.
Where is the number for easy installs? Come to think of it, shouldered
by Dell and others who want to ship with win32 installed.
And a number for (I gather) ha-yuge and protracted beta testing.
The advantage MS has is that that expense gets concentrated on one
release, with a design imperative that dummies be able to plug n' play.
Linux has multiple distros, every package is a loose cannon, and every
user re-fights the same install battle. RMS succeeded in enlisting
legions of developer soldiers, but failed to concentrate their efforts.
Some distros (I hear) lean more towards easy installs, but without a
Dell adopting Linux-and-only-Linux... or is that Apple? Which is a
premium-priced platform, and proprietary for all intents and purposes.
>
> These are the numbers a senior guy at Oracle was boasting about a few
> years ago (he said their 3-5% was "above average").
OK, thx, this is helpful. I will remember to spend more on marketing and
stop worrying about making such a great Algebra app once I have a
revenue stream.* Worse is better?
kt
* Actually, I kinda picked that up over the years. Quality schmuality.
k
--
The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
-- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
Ken Tilton wrote:
> Linux has multiple distros, every package is a loose cannon, and every
> user re-fights the same install battle. RMS succeeded in enlisting
> legions of developer soldiers, but failed to concentrate their efforts.
> k
>
> --
> The Dalai Lama gets the same crap all the time.
> -- Kenny Tilton on c.l.l when accused of immodesty
Actually, most open source developers aren't brain-dead enough to join
Stallman's GNU cult. And when they do, they soon learn what an asshole
the cult master really is - like Ulrich Drepper of glibc found out.
Besides, RMS and his cult followers are all about "free software",
while everybody else is open source.
On Jan 2, 2:30 am, Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Linux has multiple distros,
You say that like it's a bad thing.
> every package is a loose cannon
Does this mean anything?
> every user re-fights the same install battle.
Except, like, those users who use a distro where installation is even
easier
than with Windows.
> RMS succeeded in enlisting legions of developer soldiers, but failed to
> concentrate their efforts.
Given that RMS is unrelated to Linux distros, this statement appears
out of place.
> Some distros (I hear) lean more towards easy installs, but without a
> Dell adopting Linux-and-only-Linux... or is that Apple? Which is a
> premium-priced platform, and proprietary for all intents and purposes.
Could you kindly render that in English?
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: "Free" Software Strikes Again, or How I Ended Up With My Brother In My Airspace For Two Hours
Date:
Message-ID: <MEkmh.110$Mx1.73@newsfe12.lga>
Nathan Baum wrote:
> On Jan 2, 2:30 am, Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Linux has multiple distros,
>
>
> You say that like it's a bad thing.
yes, as explained in the rest of what I said.
>
>
>>every package is a loose cannon
>
>
> Does this mean anything?
yes. but only if you know what is a loose cannon.
>
>
>>every user re-fights the same install battle.
>
>
> Except, like, those users who use a distro where installation is even
> easier
> than with Windows.
I said the same. Except you are completely wrong. I have used Win32
intensively and regrettably for over eight years and never installed it.
>
>
>>RMS succeeded in enlisting legions of developer soldiers, but failed to
>>concentrate their efforts.
>
>
> Given that RMS is unrelated to Linux distros, this statement appears
> out of place.
Who said anything about RMS and Linux? Other than you, I mean.
>
>
>>Some distros (I hear) lean more towards easy installs, but without a
>>Dell adopting Linux-and-only-Linux... or is that Apple? Which is a
>>premium-priced platform, and proprietary for all intents and purposes.
>
>
> Could you kindly render that in English?
>
Did you have a specific question? (Don't bother.)
On Jan 2, 3:51 am, Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nathan Baum wrote:
> > On Jan 2, 2:30 am, Ken Tilton <·········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>Linux has multiple distros,
>
> > You say that like it's a bad thing.
> yes, as explained in the rest of what I said.
Perhaps in a previous draft. Not in the version you posted, however.
> >>every package is a loose cannon
>
> > Does this mean anything?
> yes. but only if you know what is a loose cannon.
"a person who is expected to perform a particular task but who is out
of control and dangerous"
Since it is clear that it is untrue that "every package" on a Linux
system is expected to perform a particular task but is out of control
and dangerous, you clearly didn't have this meaning of loose cannon in
mind.
Perhaps you really meant to say "some packages are loose cannons," but
then that wouldn't distinguish Linux from any other operating system,
and it looked like your paragraph was addressing the differences
between Linux and the alternatives.
>
>
> >>every user re-fights the same install battle.
>
> > Except, like, those users who use a distro where installation is even
> > easier than with Windows.
> I said the same. Except you are completely wrong.
So... If I'm completely wrong and you said the same... You're
completely wrong?
> I have used Win32 intensively and regrettably for over eight years and never installed it.
Ah. This is obviously some strange meaning of the phrase "completely
wrong" I wasn't previously aware of.
I am "completely wrong" in my assertion that users who use a distro
which can be installed more easily than Windows don't "fight the same
install battle" because you, personally, have never installed Windows.
This is obviously one of those multi-valued logic systems; true, false,
and batshit insane.
> >>RMS succeeded in enlisting legions of developer soldiers, but failed to
> >>concentrate their efforts.
>
> > Given that RMS is unrelated to Linux distros, this statement appears
> > out of place.
> Who said anything about RMS and Linux? Other than you, I mean.
Perhaps you are not aware of how paragraphs work. You see, sentences
within paragraphs are, typically, related. Each sentence expounds upon
a particular thematic element; said element being introduced in the
first sentence.
In this case, the initial sentence was about Linux and its bifurcation.
The subsequent use in the paragraph of a sentence referring to RMS
enlisting legions of developer soldiers but failing to hurd* them
correctly, links RMS to the thematic element of the paragraph -- the
bifurcation of Linux -- suggesting that his lack of leadership is to
blame for the rise of the many distros.
> >>Some distros (I hear) lean more towards easy installs, but without a
> >>Dell adopting Linux-and-only-Linux... or is that Apple? Which is a
> >>premium-priced platform, and proprietary for all intents and purposes.
>
> > Could you kindly render that in English?
> Did you have a specific question? (Don't bother.)
Because you don't care to answer? Good debating tactic. However, I had
no specific question, because I couldn't make head-nor-tail of that
pitiful excuse for a paragraph.
* Pun intended.