I'm trying to learn lisp. I've been reading some of Paul Graham's stuff
and he has convinced me of its coolness :) So anyway, I'm totally lost.
I'm using gcl (Gnu Common Lisp) under Gentoo. I tried to get sbcl and
cmucl but they didn't compile. My basic issue is simple - how do I make
a binary executable with gcl? My test program is just this.
(format t "hello lisp")
This file is called 'hw.lisp', I've managed to create an object file
but do not know how to link it to make a binary. I'm just doing this in
the interactive gcl session
(COMPILE-FILE "hw.lisp")
Now that gives me the 'hw.o' file but how to link it? Or is there a way
to just go straight to the executable? I've looked online but the gcl
docs are rather sparse.
······@gmail.com wrote:
> My basic issue is simple - how do I make a binary executable with gcl?
;;;; Try this program
(defun main ()
(format t "hello world!")
(force-output)
(quit))
(setf system::*top-level-hook* #'main)
(system::save-system "hw")
...Then run "gcl -load hw.lisp" and you should have an executable.
Greg Buchholz
······@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm trying to learn lisp. I've been reading some of Paul Graham's stuff
> and he has convinced me of its coolness :) So anyway, I'm totally lost.
> I'm using gcl (Gnu Common Lisp) under Gentoo. I tried to get sbcl and
> cmucl but they didn't compile.
Your check is in the mail. (in joke)
> My basic issue is simple - how do I make
> a binary executable with gcl? My test program is just this.
>
> (format t "hello lisp")
>
> This file is called 'hw.lisp', I've managed to create an object file
> but do not know how to link it to make a binary. I'm just doing this in
> the interactive gcl session
>
> (COMPILE-FILE "hw.lisp")
>
> Now that gives me the 'hw.o' file but how to link it? Or is there a way
> to just go straight to the executable? I've looked online but the gcl
> docs are rather sparse.
>
fwiw, a little googling suggests save-image.
ken
--
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
> fwiw, a little googling suggests save-image.
No, it doesn't. I googled quite a bit on this as well as reading the
info file for the different lisps I have. I found some information on
the various save commands but they seemed like overkill to me since I
am not used to the Lisp paradigm. It was also not apparent that the
resulting image was runnable.
······@gmail.com wrote:
>>fwiw, a little googling suggests save-image.
>
>
> No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does (you dumb f*ck).
Try result #2 from "GCL executables", admittedly not the first thing
that comes to mind when looking to build an executable using GCL. <sigh>
> I googled quite a bit on this as well as reading the
> info file for the different lisps I have. I found some information on
> the various save commands but they seemed like overkill to me since I
> am not used to the Lisp paradigm. It was also not apparent that the
> resulting image was runnable.
>
That might have been clearer had you found it under :
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> ;;; How to build a profiling ACL2/GCL executable.
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
>
The key to Usenet success is to respond "Omigod, I am such an ass!" when
the obvious is pointed out. There is no harm in this since we are
thinking it already, and a huge upside since such self-deprecation wins
everyone over and ironically conveys the self-assurance that comes only
from being a master. Or sociopath.
:)
ken (searching desperately for his bradshaw outttahere)
--
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
>
> Yes, it does (you dumb f*ck).
>
Wow, thanks Ken. You've just identified youself as at least one of the
resident assholes on this group for me in just a few posts. Thanks for
not being overly coy about it. I hate when people beat around the bush
like that. Rot in hell jackass.
······@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Yes, it does (you dumb f*ck).
>>
>
>
> Wow, thanks Ken. You've just identified youself as at least one of the
> resident assholes on this group for me in just a few posts. Thanks for
> not being overly coy about it. I hate when people beat around the bush
> like that.
Well, a google groups search could have told you that, but again you
prefer to wait and let the group do your research for you. Ah well, some folk never learn.
>Rot in hell jackass.
I'm not 100% on my christian theology, but can an animal sin?
Especially the animal jesus himself used as a beast of burden.. damned
for eternity? It seems unfair to punish the beasts for the fall of
man, but what do i know.
Cheers,
drewc
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> >
> > Wow, thanks Ken. You've just identified youself as at least one of the
> > resident assholes on this group for me in just a few posts. Thanks for
> > not being overly coy about it. I hate when people beat around the bush
> > like that.
>
> Well, a google groups search could have told you that, but again you
> prefer to wait and let the group do your research for you. Ah well, some folk never learn.
>
Actually I did learn - once. I left NGs in favor of web forums where
Kenny's ilk usually get the spankings they need. There don't seem to
be many good lisp forums though. Now I'm back in the land of spam and
poseurs.
> >Rot in hell jackass.
>
> I'm not 100% on my christian theology, but can an animal sin?
> Especially the animal jesus himself used as a beast of burden.. damned
> for eternity? It seems unfair to punish the beasts for the fall of
> man, but what do i know.
>
Jehovah does that kind of stuff all the time. That's why I'm not a big
fan of his.
······@gmail.com writes:
> Actually I did learn - once. I left NGs in favor of web forums where
> Kenny's ilk usually get the spankings they need.
Well, if you're planning on hanging around here you should either:
a) Learn to do your own research.
b) Develop a thicker skin.
c) Lurk for a while till you get a feel for the place.
Some of us (myself included) really enjoy watching KT consume
n00bs, the rest probably plonked him in the killfile long ago.
Fact is that the GCL manual does contain all the information you need,
and one can google for 'gcl executable' and get the answer you
seek. Running away from usenet because someone you've never met called
you a bad word seems a little.. weak.
Wanting to spank Kenny seems a little... aww hell who am i to judge
;).
> There don't seem to be many good lisp forums though. Now I'm back
> in the land of spam and poseurs.
I hope you ain't lookin for pity, 'cause you're in the wrong place if
you are.
>> >Rot in hell jackass.
>>
>> I'm not 100% on my christian theology, but can an animal sin?
>> Especially the animal jesus himself used as a beast of burden.. damned
>> for eternity? It seems unfair to punish the beasts for the fall of
>> man, but what do i know.
>>
>
> Jehovah does that kind of stuff all the time. That's why I'm not a big
> fan of his.
Yet you have no problem suggesting that somebody you've never met "rot
in hell". I suppose you know that you just blasphemed... you are
likely to end up right beside KT in eternal damnation unless you
change your attitude. What a dumb thing to do.
drewc
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
drewc wrote:
> a) Learn to do your own research.
Well, I did it. I just didn't find the answer I wanted. Actually I
never ask questions until I've pretty much given up on the docs.
> b) Develop a thicker skin.
I don't think that's a fair criticism. It was Kenny who flipped out
because I dared question his HOLY WRIT.
> Fact is that the GCL manual does contain all the information you need,
> and one can google for 'gcl executable' and get the answer you
> seek. Running away from usenet because someone you've never met called
> you a bad word seems a little.. weak.
I didn't run away, it just seemed that most of the groups I was
visiting were full of assholes who start flamewars to stroke their
fragile egos. I don't have time for that shit. Then there was the
spam, gigs and gigs of it. I haven't seen much of that here though.
> >
> > Jehovah does that kind of stuff all the time. That's why I'm not a big
> > fan of his.
>
> Yet you have no problem suggesting that somebody you've never met "rot
> in hell". I suppose you know that you just blasphemed... you are
> likely to end up right beside KT in eternal damnation unless you
> change your attitude. What a dumb thing to do.
"rot in hell", "go fuck a duck", "suck my balls", they're all just
different ways to say "Fuck you". I like to mix up the insults for
literary effect. Not being a believer I like to see the arrogant get
theirs before they take the big vacation.
drewc wrote:
> ······@gmail.com writes:
>
>
>>>Yes, it does (you dumb f*ck).
>>>
>>
>>
>>Wow, thanks Ken. You've just identified youself as at least one of the
>>resident assholes on this group for me in just a few posts. Thanks for
>>not being overly coy about it. I hate when people beat around the bush
>>like that.
>
>
> Well, a google groups search could have told you that, but again you
> prefer to wait and let the group do your research for you. Ah well, some folk never learn.
Nahhhh, then he would have to read about Cells, Celtk, Cello, CFFI,
Verrazano, bindings to FTGL, OpenGL, OpenAL, GraphicsMagick, FreeType,
FreeGlut, Tcl/Tk, Cells-Gtk, LispNYC, PyCells, SoC2005, SoC2006, and
wade thru all the newbies who got help from me without getting reamed.
How about giving Ilias the apples & oranges justification of x^0 -> 1?
How cruel can you get? Oh, The Road to Lisp, the music SIG of LispNYC,
RoboCup, ILC talks...
>
>
>>Rot in hell jackass.
>
>
> I'm not 100% on my christian theology, but can an animal sin?
> Especially the animal jesus himself used as a beast of burden.. damned
> for eternity? It seems unfair to punish the beasts for the fall of
> man, but what do i know.
You probably know that rot tends not to be a problem in your typical
fire and brimstone settings. Dessication, sure...
ken
--
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
drewc <·····@tech.coop> writes:
>>Rot in hell jackass.
>
> I'm not 100% on my christian theology, but can an animal sin?
> Especially the animal jesus himself used as a beast of burden.. damned
> for eternity? It seems unfair to punish the beasts for the fall of
> man, but what do i know.
Well, the snake was punished and his legs removed, but otherwise
you're right, I guess ;-)
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
HEALTH WARNING: Care should be taken when lifting this product,
since its mass, and thus its weight, is dependent on its velocity
relative to the user.
Pascal Bourguignon <···@informatimago.com> writes:
>> I'm not 100% on my christian theology, but can an animal sin?
>> Especially the animal jesus himself used as a beast of burden.. damned
>> for eternity? It seems unfair to punish the beasts for the fall of
>> man, but what do i know.
>
> Well, the snake was punished and his legs removed,
_Her_ legs removed... i am up on my pagan theology[1] ;).
> but otherwise
> you're right, I guess ;-)
I suppose it makes sense in the context of the eden myth.. before
eating the fruit humans were like animals, and therefore free of
sin. On eating the fruit, yhwh says "Behold, for man has become as one
of us".. obviously speaking of other gods, or at least a group of
other beings, in which yhwh includes himself, who have knowledge of
sin.[2]
Sorry for the OT post, but i'm over-lisped today.
drewc
[1] The "Eden Myth" was known in many different forms throughout the
fertile crescent. It is important to note that not all of them
portrayed the eating of the fruit as a 'fall' from gods grace. At the
time, the popular 'religion' of the people was Goddess centered. This
includes the primordial israelites, with the exception of the tribe of
Levi, who saw themselves as the priests of a male deity, and saw it as
their goal to supress worship of the Goddess, whom the bible calls
'Asherah'or 'Ashtoreth'.
She was known in egypt as Isis, and in babylon as Ishtar, which is
very close in spelling the Ashtoreth, or Oestarte from whence we get
our word 'easter'. Easter is, of course, a proper pagan festival,
rabbits and eggs being obvious fertility symbols, never mind the name
connection.
In the 'female-positive' version of the "Eden Myth", the act of
gaining knowledge of good and evil is seen as the very thing that
freed us from the realm of the beasts (Behold...), and is seen as an
ascention. The Gnostic Christians, who saw Woman as at least equal to
Man, have similar interpretations.
Merlin Stone has a book, _When God Was A Woman_ , that explores this
aspect of the myth. Here is an extract:
"It is here that our understanding of the sacred sexual customs and
matrilineal descent patterns enters the matter, further clarifying the
symbolism of the forbidden fruit. In each area in which the Goddess
was known and revered, She was extolled not only as the prophetess of
great wisdom, closely identified with the serpent, but as the original
Creatress, and the patroness of sexual pleasures and reproduction as
well. The Divine Ancestress was identified as She who brought life as
well as She who decreed the destinies and directions of those lives, a
not unnatural combination. Hathor was credited with having taught
people how to procreate. Ishtar, Ashtoreth and Inanna were each
esteemed as the tutelary deity of sexuality and new life. The sacred
women celebrated this aspect of Her being by making love in the
temples.
Considering the hatred the Hebrews felt toward the asherim, a major
symbol of female religion, it would not be too surprising if the
symbolism of the tree of forbidden fruit, said to offer the knowledge
of good and evil, yet clearly represented in the myth as the provider
of sexual consciousness, was included in the creation story to warn
that eating the fruit of this tree had caused the downfall of all
humanity. Eating of the tree of the Goddess, which stood by each
altar, was dangerously "pagan" as were Her sexual customs and Her
oracular serpents.
So into the myth of how the world began, the story that the Levites
offered as the explanation of the creation of all existence, they
place the advisory serpent and the woman who accepted its counsel,
eating of the tree that gave her the understanding of what "only the
gods knew" - the secret of sex - how to create life."
And a little more about the serpent herself :
"It can hardly have been chance or coincidence that it was a serpent
who offered Eve the advice. For people of that time knew that the
serpent was the symbol, perhaps even the instrument, of divine counsel
in the religion of the Goddess. It was surely intended in the Paradise
myth, as in the Indo-European serpent and dragon myths, that the
serpent, as the familiar counselor of women, be seen as a source of
evil and be placed in such a menacing and villainous role that to
listen to the prophetesses of the female deity would be to violate the
religion of the male deity in a most dangerous manner."
[2] Ok, so i lied, i am pretty well informed when it comes to
Judaeo-Christian theology. I'm just over-lisped and in the wrong
group.
>
> --
> __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
>
> HEALTH WARNING: Care should be taken when lifting this product,
> since its mass, and thus its weight, is dependent on its velocity
> relative to the user.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
drewc wrote:
> Pascal Bourguignon <···@informatimago.com> writes:
>
>
>>>I'm not 100% on my christian theology, but can an animal sin?
>>>Especially the animal jesus himself used as a beast of burden.. damned
>>>for eternity? It seems unfair to punish the beasts for the fall of
>>>man, but what do i know.
>>
>
>>Well, the snake was punished and his legs removed,
>
>
> _Her_ legs removed... i am up on my pagan theology[1] ;).
>
>
>>but otherwise
>>you're right, I guess ;-)
>
>
>
> I suppose it makes sense in the context of the eden myth.. before
> eating the fruit humans were like animals...
Nonsense. Humans were created first. Or are you saying animals were a
forward-referenced superclass? No, human would have to be finalized to
create Adam and Eve.
Possibly you are thinking a common attribute ("without sin") establishes
an "is-a" connection. That mistake is as common as it is preposterous,
in my experience.
hth,ken
--
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Ken Tilton wrote:
> ······@gmail.com wrote:
> >>fwiw, a little googling suggests save-image.
> >
> >
> > No, it doesn't.
>
> Yes, it does
No it doesn't, the relevant incantation in GCL is "save-system" (and
always has been).
> (you dumb f*ck).
Come, on we at expect at least an attempt at wit.
Rob Thorpe wrote:
> Ken Tilton wrote:
>
>>······@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>fwiw, a little googling suggests save-image.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, it doesn't.
>>
>>Yes, it does
>
>
> No it doesn't, the relevant incantation in GCL is "save-system" (and
> always has been).
Rob, you ignorant slut. You probably got the GCL bit right, but what you
do not know* is some of the meanings of the word "suggest":
* S: (v) imply as a possibility
* S: (v) drop a hint; intimate by a hint
* S: (v) call to mind
When Googling "GCL executables", I found instructions involving a
function called save-profiling-image. This suggested to me (as in "imply
as a possibility" or "drop a hint" or "call to mind") save-image. QED.
And that is why I dropped two hints: "Google" and "save-image" and was
exceedingly careful to use the word "suggests" lest some illiterate fool
think I was providing the actual code. Ooops.
* Just kidding. What you did not know is that I used a soft word like
"suggest" for a reason. I feel a Naggum coming on. When you think I am
wrong, please reread what I said to see if what is wrong is the meaning
you subsituted for what was clearly written.
>>(you dumb f*ck).
>
>
> Come, on we at expect at least an attempt at wit.
>
You did not like "The key to Usenet success is to respond "Omigod, I am
such an ass!" when the obvious is pointed out. There is no harm in this
since we are thinking it already..."?
Anyway, you read people as badly as you read. Someone offers help (which
indeed apparently led to him understanding that a saved image was the
trick) and he responds with "No, it doesn't" and defensive rant on how
much he googled and why he could not have been expected to figure it out.
Fine, but anyone who uses Usenet knows that that is not how one says
"Thanks". Which is why I felt safe moving directly to defcon 3, just to
see how big an *sshole we had on board. His defcon 1 "Rot in hell
jackass" response merely, well, QED.
hth, ken
--
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
Just digging in deeper aren't we Kenny? I made it clear why my google
searches didn't "suggest" save-image to me. It's called a rebuttal.
Your response was to resort to immediate name calling. Your assumption
that I am unfamiliar with Usenet is amusing. From the picture on your
website I would guess that I was on Usenet when you were still smearing
your daddy's computer with feces. Then again it seems that you are
still at it. I haven't posted on usenet for a while precisely because
it's full of arrogant asses like you. People who are just useful
enough to the group that their antics are tolerated. And don't kid
yourself. I didn't learn about images from you at all but in spite of
you. You are on my ignore list. Fuck off.
> still at it. I haven't posted on usenet for a while precisely because
> it's full of arrogant asses like you. People who are just useful
may i suggest a cool paper about reflection? :)
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/91
··············@gmail.com wrote:
>>still at it. I haven't posted on usenet for a while precisely because
>>it's full of arrogant asses like you. People who are just useful
Asses, assholes, spanking, feces, and daddy....
> may i suggest a cool paper about reflection? :)
Paper, schmaper. I am trying to be good, but if someone does not come
with a Freud joke pretty soon...
<sigh>
ken
--
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
-- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon
······@gmail.com wrote:
> > fwiw, a little googling suggests save-image.
>
> No, it doesn't. I googled quite a bit on this as well as reading the
> info file for the different lisps I have. I found some information on
> the various save commands but they seemed like overkill to me since I
> am not used to the Lisp paradigm. It was also not apparent that the
> resulting image was runnable.
Two possibly useful bits of info:-
* Save-system is described in the GCL manual in the "system
definitions" info node. As far as I can remember
* When installing SBCL and CMUCL don't build them from source. Both of
these programs are best installed from their binary distributions. You
will soon find builds for Ubuntu, I think they're on the Ubuntu site
actually.
From: Xavier Cabal
Subject: Re: Compile to binary using gcl?
Date:
Message-ID: <els559$fv$1@aioe.org>
Rob Thorpe wrote:
> * When installing SBCL and CMUCL don't build them from source. Both of
> these programs are best installed from their binary distributions. You
> will soon find builds for Ubuntu, I think they're on the Ubuntu site
> actually.
SBCL is written mostly in lisp with some C support bits to get it started,
so to compile it from source you need to have a cl compiler already, as
well as the usual C compiler. Install a cl compiler binary (the SBCL
binary or similar) in a temporary location, use it to compile the source,
then delete the temporary version. See http://www.sbcl.org/getting.html
for details.
> SBCL is written mostly in lisp with some C support bits to get it started,
> so to compile it from source you need to have a cl compiler already, as
> well as the usual C compiler. Install a cl compiler binary (the SBCL
> binary or similar) in a temporary location, use it to compile the source,
> then delete the temporary version. See http://www.sbcl.org/getting.html
> for details.
Actually I just got the 1.0 version of SBCL and it does compile while
the older ones don't (on Gentoo). I'm supposing that the Gentoo people
are including a binary sbcl in their tarball to make the initial
compile happen. Still no luck compiling cmucl (I have AMD64 machines
and there's some kind of assembler error during the compile) though the
binary distro works fine. I'm now using it with Slime in fact, which
is totally wonderful by the way. Love the command completion
······@gmail.com wrote:
> > SBCL is written mostly in lisp with some C support bits to get it started,
> > so to compile it from source you need to have a cl compiler already, as
> > well as the usual C compiler. Install a cl compiler binary (the SBCL
> > binary or similar) in a temporary location, use it to compile the source,
> > then delete the temporary version. See http://www.sbcl.org/getting.html
> > for details.
>
> Actually I just got the 1.0 version of SBCL and it does compile while
> the older ones don't (on Gentoo). I'm supposing that the Gentoo people
> are including a binary sbcl in their tarball to make the initial
> compile happen. Still no luck compiling cmucl (I have AMD64 machines
> and there's some kind of assembler error during the compile) though the
> binary distro works fine. I'm now using it with Slime in fact, which
> is totally wonderful by the way. Love the command completion
You don't really need to build it yourself. The improvement in
optimization is quite small between the stock binary and one built for
your machine. Also, SBCL and CMUCL are very similar for most purposes.
Rob Thorpe wrote:
> You don't really need to build it yourself. The improvement in
> optimization is quite small between the stock binary and one built for
> your machine. Also, SBCL and CMUCL are very similar for most purposes.
Oh, don't say that around Gentoo people. They'll tear ya a new one :)
Actually Gentoo's a source distro and I only wanted to compile it
because, well, that's how you usually get new packages on Gentoo, at
least if you want them in the system's package database (called
portage). You can install binary packages in portage too but there
wasn't one for sbcl.
······@gmail.com wrote:
> Rob Thorpe wrote:
>
> > You don't really need to build it yourself. The improvement in
> > optimization is quite small between the stock binary and one built for
> > your machine. Also, SBCL and CMUCL are very similar for most purposes.
>
> Oh, don't say that around Gentoo people. They'll tear ya a new one :)
I know. But SBCL & CMUCL are not like GCC, they do relatively little
per processor optimization. So, there is little difference in
performance of the stock binary compared to a custom built one, unlike
many C and C++ programs.
> Actually Gentoo's a source distro and I only wanted to compile it
> because, well, that's how you usually get new packages on Gentoo, at
> least if you want them in the system's package database (called
> portage). You can install binary packages in portage too but there
> wasn't one for sbcl.
I see.
From: Xavier Cabal
Subject: Re: Compile to binary using gcl?
Date:
Message-ID: <eluukp$e7j$1@aioe.org>
Rob Thorpe wrote:
>> Oh, don't say that around Gentoo people. They'll tear ya a new one :)
>
> I know. But SBCL & CMUCL are not like GCC, they do relatively little
> per processor optimization. So, there is little difference in
> performance of the stock binary compared to a custom built one, unlike
> many C and C++ programs.
I don't know if it still the case, but when I started using SBCL you had to
compile it if you wanted multithreading on X86 + linux, as the standard
binary was single threaded.
Xavier Cabal wrote:
> Rob Thorpe wrote:
> >> Oh, don't say that around Gentoo people. They'll tear ya a new one :)
> >
> > I know. But SBCL & CMUCL are not like GCC, they do relatively little
> > per processor optimization. So, there is little difference in
> > performance of the stock binary compared to a custom built one, unlike
> > many C and C++ programs.
>
> I don't know if it still the case, but when I started using SBCL you had to
> compile it if you wanted multithreading on X86 + linux, as the standard
> binary was single threaded.
The standard binary is now multithreaded.
(Which is not entirely positive, I sometimes want to use it on Linux
2.4, and it doesn't work because it uses a very new threading library).
From: Xavier Cabal
Subject: Re: Compile to binary using gcl?
Date:
Message-ID: <eluc0j$21g$1@aioe.org>
Rob Thorpe wrote:
> ······@gmail.com wrote:
>> > SBCL is written mostly in lisp with some C support bits to get it
>> > started, so to compile it from source you need to have a cl compiler
>> > already, as
>> > well as the usual C compiler. Install a cl compiler binary (the SBCL
>> > binary or similar) in a temporary location, use it to compile the
>> > source,
>> > then delete the temporary version. See
>> > http://www.sbcl.org/getting.html for details.
>>
>> Actually I just got the 1.0 version of SBCL and it does compile while
>> the older ones don't (on Gentoo). I'm supposing that the Gentoo people
>> are including a binary sbcl in their tarball to make the initial
>> compile happen. Still no luck compiling cmucl (I have AMD64 machines
>> and there's some kind of assembler error during the compile) though the
>> binary distro works fine. I'm now using it with Slime in fact, which
>> is totally wonderful by the way. Love the command completion
>
> You don't really need to build it yourself. The improvement in
> optimization is quite small between the stock binary and one built for
> your machine. Also, SBCL and CMUCL are very similar for most purposes.
Sorry if my post came across that you had to build SBCL; you are right that
it is not necessary. The point I wanted to make is you have to install the
binary anyway. You can either just continue to use the binary as it is, or
use it to build SBCL if that is what you like to do.
······@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm trying to learn lisp. I've been reading some of Paul Graham's stuff
> and he has convinced me of its coolness :) So anyway, I'm totally lost.
> I'm using gcl (Gnu Common Lisp) under Gentoo. I tried to get sbcl and
> cmucl but they didn't compile. My basic issue is simple - how do I make
> a binary executable with gcl? My test program is just this.
>
> (format t "hello lisp")
>
> This file is called 'hw.lisp', I've managed to create an object file
> but do not know how to link it to make a binary. I'm just doing this in
> the interactive gcl session
>
> (COMPILE-FILE "hw.lisp")
>
> Now that gives me the 'hw.o' file but how to link it? Or is there a way
> to just go straight to the executable? I've looked online but the gcl
> docs are rather sparse.
Don't worry about generating executables. Just consider the Lisp
listener (where you type in Lisp code that gets executed) as another
interactive shell. format is a program, and (format t "hello lisp")
calls it, just like ls is a program and ls -la calls it.
For learning how to program in Common Lisp, that's sufficient. You can
worry about how to create standalone executables later, when you
actually have some real programs for which this is worthwhile. In the
meantime, you will have learned other ways how to work with Lisp
programs which you may even regard as more interesting than standalone
programs.
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Oh, I know. It's just that I was thinking of coding a modified Conway
Life app as a kind of practice assignment to learn the language. Life,
of course, is notorious for CPU intensity, at least unless you do a lot
of tricky things to optimise.
>
> Don't worry about generating executables. Just consider the Lisp
> listener (where you type in Lisp code that gets executed) as another
> interactive shell. format is a program, and (format t "hello lisp")
> calls it, just like ls is a program and ls -la calls it.
(message (Hello ·······@gmail.com)
(you :wrote :on '(13 Dec 2006 17:26:36 -0800))
(
g> Oh, I know. It's just that I was thinking of coding a modified Conway
g> Life app as a kind of practice assignment to learn the language. Life,
g> of course, is notorious for CPU intensity,
i've done Conway Life on 10 MHz 286 CPU in QBASIC interpreter, so it would
be quite hard to make it slow on modern multi-ghz cpus, unless you want
really large sets and very fast simulation.
g> at least unless you do a lot
g> of tricky things to optimise.
i've used full 2d matrix scanning in my BASIC program, so it was a bit slow.
but you can use hash-table in common lisp, making field really unbound. once
i've coded it to check how simple it is common lisp -- 40 lines (without
fancy output)
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")
Alex Mizrahi wrote:
>
> i've done Conway Life on 10 MHz 286 CPU in QBASIC interpreter, so it would
> be quite hard to make it slow on modern multi-ghz cpus, unless you want
> really large sets and very fast simulation.
>
Understood, my algorithm made a lot of use of color and was mainly
intended to make pretty pictures rather than to find new kinds of
spaceships or something. Thus I did want rather large simulations
(1024x768 at least) and was concerned about the speed.
······@gmail.com schrieb:
> I'm trying to learn lisp. I've been reading some of Paul Graham's stuff
> and he has convinced me of its coolness :) So anyway, I'm totally lost.
> I'm using gcl (Gnu Common Lisp) under Gentoo. I tried to get sbcl and
> cmucl but they didn't compile. My basic issue is simple - how do I make
> a binary executable with gcl? My test program is just this.
>
> (format t "hello lisp")
>
> This file is called 'hw.lisp', I've managed to create an object file
> but do not know how to link it to make a binary. I'm just doing this in
> the interactive gcl session
>
> (COMPILE-FILE "hw.lisp")
>
> Now that gives me the 'hw.o' file but how to link it? Or is there a way
> to just go straight to the executable? I've looked online but the gcl
> docs are rather sparse.
>
I never used gcl,so I don't know it. But I know how you can do it in
sbcl or clisp:
http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Saving-a-Core-Image.html#Saving-a-Core-Image
http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/quickstart.html
The commercial Lisps offer binary generation via mouse click.
But don't forget that your Lisp programs will always stay inside the
Lisp environment. You never get out of it.
Andr�
--
Yeah, I'm starting to get that now. That "the whole language is always
there" as Graham says and this is why you load functions into the
system and then save the whole system.
> The commercial Lisps offer binary generation via mouse click.
> But don't forget that your Lisp programs will always stay inside the
> Lisp environment. You never get out of it.
>
>
> André
> --
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:16:43 -0800, gpropf wrote:
> Yeah, I'm starting to get that now. That "the whole language is always
> there" as Graham says and this is why you load functions into the
> system and then save the whole system.
>
Quoted material goes ABOVE your response, as I am doing now. Top-posting
(as you were doing) is annoyingly difficult to follow.
--
My address happens to be com (dot) gmail (at) usenet (plus) chbarts,
wardsback and translated.
It's in my header if you need a spoiler.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
(message (Hello ·······@gmail.com)
(you :wrote :on '(13 Dec 2006 14:59:25 -0800))
(
g> I'm trying to learn lisp. I've been reading some of Paul Graham's stuff
g> and he has convinced me of its coolness :) So anyway, I'm totally lost.
g> I'm using gcl (Gnu Common Lisp) under Gentoo. I tried to get sbcl and
g> cmucl but they didn't compile. My basic issue is simple - how do I make
g> a binary executable with gcl?
you see -- operation system you use does not use pre-built binary
executables. why lisp should?
to make code running fast, just do (load (compile-file "my.lisp")), or
better get Emacs and SLIME -- there's a button for this, compile/load file.
)
(With-best-regards '(Alex Mizrahi) :aka 'killer_storm)
"People who lust for the Feel of keys on their fingertips (c) Inity")