I have noticed in the past few months when reading comp.lang.lisp
messages on Google groups constant advertisement from Jane St. Capital
for OCaml Jobs. And now that I have some messages about Lisp in my
Gmail Inbox, these ads appear along with my GMail content as well.
The ads usually lead to the page
http://www.janestcapital.com/ocaml.html where they ask for "an OCaml
hacker looking for a job".
I understand that ML (and OCaml) is also a functional language, and
that Lisp hackers would at some stage have experimented with it. But
Jane St. Capital is targetting users frequenting Lisp forums as well.
So are you as a Lisp programmer generally bilingual or multi-lingual,
or at ease with other programming languages like ML, Haskell or Erlang?
Do you use them most of the time along with Lisp?
Alok.
Alok wrote:
> I have noticed in the past few months when reading comp.lang.lisp
> messages on Google groups constant advertisement from Jane St. Capital
> for OCaml Jobs. And now that I have some messages about Lisp in my
> Gmail Inbox, these ads appear along with my GMail content as well.
>
> The ads usually lead to the page
> http://www.janestcapital.com/ocaml.html where they ask for "an OCaml
> hacker looking for a job".
>
> I understand that ML (and OCaml) is also a functional language, and
> that Lisp hackers would at some stage have experimented with it.
"may" have experimented with it is a more correct term.
> But
> Jane St. Capital is targetting users frequenting Lisp forums as well.
They're targeting the smart people, who know what a FP language is.
> So are you as a Lisp programmer generally bilingual or multi-lingual,
> or at ease with other programming languages like ML, Haskell or Erlang?
> Do you use them most of the time along with Lisp?
When I was language shopping, I ignored comp.lang.lisp for quite a long
time because it flunked my various Windows open source implementation
requirements. I looked at the mostly the functional programming
universe ala comp.lang.functional. OCaml led me to Bigloo Scheme,
since they had a common implementation ancestry at INRIA at one point.
At one point I soured on Bigloo Scheme and started looking at Common
Lisp again. I soured on that and ended up with Chicken Scheme, which
I've stuck with.
I'm not really a Lisp programmer. I'm only nominally a Scheme
programmer. I've really only done the bare minimum to get the Chicken
Scheme build working. That said, parentheses don't bother me or seem
"weird" anymore, so I'm probably more of a Scheme programmer than
99.99999% of the universe.
I don't think most people can afford to language shop all that much. I
threw 2 years at it and I have almost no productivity to show for it.
Knowledge, yes, but not productivity. So I wouldn't be surprised if
few people around here care about OCaml. People shop languages when
they're dissatisfied, when they have reasons for switching. People
whose life needs are mostly met don't switch. Hence all the C++ 3D
programmers out there. What a sorry lot!
Cheers,
Brandon Van Every
Alok wrote:
> So are you as a Lisp programmer generally bilingual or multi-lingual,
> or at ease with other programming languages like ML, Haskell or Erlang?
> Do you use them most of the time along with Lisp?
Interestingly, I think the vast majority of functional programmers stick to
the language they are introduced to. Very few people seem to bother
learning Lisp once they've learned OCaml and vice versa. I know about 10
OCaml programmers IRL and one Lisp programmer, and none of them know the
other language.
So I am surprised that OCaml employers are advertising in Lisp circles. I'd
have thought they'd get just as much out of Java programmers.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
Objective CAML for Scientists
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists
Jon Harrop wrote:
> Alok wrote:
>> So are you as a Lisp programmer generally bilingual or multi-lingual,
>> or at ease with other programming languages like ML, Haskell or Erlang?
>> Do you use them most of the time along with Lisp?
>
> Interestingly, I think the vast majority of functional programmers stick to
> the language they are introduced to. Very few people seem to bother
> learning Lisp once they've learned OCaml and vice versa. I know about 10
> OCaml programmers IRL and one Lisp programmer, and none of them know the
> other language.
Wow, that's quite representative...
> So I am surprised that OCaml employers are advertising in Lisp circles. I'd
> have thought they'd get just as much out of Java programmers.
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Closer to MOP & ContextL:
http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Jon Harrop <···@ffconsultancy.com> writes:
[...]
> So I am surprised that OCaml employers are advertising in Lisp
> circles. I'd have thought they'd get just as much out of Java
> programmers.
Well, if you advertise for Lisp programmers, you'll almost surely get
applicants who've experience of at least two languages. It's much the
same idea as asking for expertise in Ruby (or Python) even if you
don't care a hoot about Ruby (or Python), I guess. Such things are
generic indicators of people who have a decent chance of being able to
learn whatever you want them to learn.
May not always work, of course, but none of these things are perfect.
Jon Harrop wrote:
> Interestingly, I think the vast majority of functional programmers stick to
> the language they are introduced to. Very few people seem to bother
> learning Lisp once they've learned OCaml and vice versa. I know about 10
> OCaml programmers IRL and one Lisp programmer, and none of them know the
> other language.
>
> So I am surprised that OCaml employers are advertising in Lisp circles. I'd
> have thought they'd get just as much out of Java programmers.
I started out with Clean and ended up at Bigloo.
For me as such it has more to do with "static vs. dynamic" languages.
Btw: In all my life I have never met any person personally who knows
either Scheme, Common Lisp or OCaml.
Schneewittchen
Most newbie questions regarding using Common Lisp are more easily
answered by O'Caml.
- How do I make a stand-alone executable?
- How can I code a GUI program?
- Is it available (for free and portable) on Unix and Windows?
- Which implementation should I use?
;;
--
Web (en): http://www.no-spoon.de/ -*- Web (de): http://www.frell.de/
"Alok" <···········@gmail.com> writes:
> I have noticed in the past few months when reading comp.lang.lisp
> messages on Google groups constant advertisement from Jane St. Capital
> for OCaml Jobs. And now that I have some messages about Lisp in my
> Gmail Inbox, these ads appear along with my GMail content as well.
>
> The ads usually lead to the page
> http://www.janestcapital.com/ocaml.html where they ask for "an OCaml
> hacker looking for a job".
>
> I understand that ML (and OCaml) is also a functional language, and
> that Lisp hackers would at some stage have experimented with it. But
> Jane St. Capital is targetting users frequenting Lisp forums as well.
>
> So are you as a Lisp programmer generally bilingual or multi-lingual,
> or at ease with other programming languages like ML, Haskell or Erlang?
> Do you use them most of the time along with Lisp?
I'd guess that the vast majority of Lispers came to Lisp after a long
journey of trying to find a better language, and thus have experience
with quite a few other languages. Also, ML favors a mostly-functional
approach that's similar to the very common mostly-functional style
common among Lispers.
I program Lisp all day at work (3.5 dialects), so I'm far more
comfortable in that than any other language. But there are another
half-dozen or so languages that I can pick back up and be instantly
productive in. I doubt I'm an outlier in that.
> I understand that ML (and OCaml) is also a functional language, and
> that Lisp hackers would at some stage have experimented with it. But
> Jane St. Capital is targetting users frequenting Lisp forums as well.
The ad states:
...We use a variety of programming languages, so we need people who are
comfortable learning new programming paradigms. Our primary programming
language is OCaml, so experience with ML or other functional languages
is important...
It seems that they're looking for smart people in general who know what
a functional language is about.
>From their website, they're also recruiting at big CS/smart kid
schools: Cal Tech, Carnegie Mellon, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Harvard,
MIT, Northwestern, Princeton, Stanford, U Chicago, UC Berkeley, Upenn.
I think the filter they're looking for is smart people, not necessarily
just Lisp people.
gringo wrote:
> The ad states:
> ...We use a variety of programming languages, so we need people who are
> comfortable learning new programming paradigms. Our primary programming
> language is OCaml, so experience with ML or other functional languages
> is important...
>
> It seems that they're looking for smart people in general who know what
> a functional language is about.
Point taken, but I found it a little surprising that they were looking
for an "OCaml hacker" but advertised *heavily* in Lisp forums. By this
they probably assume that many OCaml hackers would also frequent Lisp
forums, or that many Lisp forum readers would also have hacking skills
in OCaml.
Alok
Alok wrote:
> gringo wrote:
> > The ad states:
> > ...We use a variety of programming languages, so we need people who are
> > comfortable learning new programming paradigms. Our primary programming
> > language is OCaml, so experience with ML or other functional languages
> > is important...
> >
> > It seems that they're looking for smart people in general who know what
> > a functional language is about.
>
> Point taken, but I found it a little surprising that they were looking
> for an "OCaml hacker" but advertised *heavily* in Lisp forums. By this
> they probably assume that many OCaml hackers would also frequent Lisp
> forums, or that many Lisp forum readers would also have hacking skills
> in OCaml.
>
Now they advertise for Lisp hackers too .. :-)
"Functional Prog. Jobs
Lisp hackers welcome!
Program in OCaml at Jane Street"
http://koders.com/lisp/fidAC9B016A91B1DDF6A0BF6F96423A694027DC2396.aspx
sweet ...
Alok
> So are you as a Lisp programmer generally bilingual or multi-lingual,
> or at ease with other programming languages like ML, Haskell or Erlang?
> Do you use them most of the time along with Lisp?
I forced myself through small (couple of dozen fns each) real (some
biocomputing I really needed to do) OCaml projects a couple of times
over a couple of years. It's sort of a highly typed functional macro
langauge. Seemed okay but not enough well documented online examples,
not enough community to make enough well documented online examples,
and not nearly enough parens! (I'm serious; I *love* parens! I just
wish they weren't shifted chars! -- I've thought about remapping my kbd
but I use too many different computers.)