I first heard of lisp a few months ago, while googling on genetic
programming.
Then I found the video lectures of Abelson and Sussman which I enjoyed
watching...
About a month ago, I realised that the scripting laguage of gimp is
lisp....
Anyway... it is a language I am looking forward to learn. And because
for me the best approach to learn something is while implementing it, I
have the multiple dilemma of which one should I choose.
My small (?) project will involve a gui, some kind of (opengl?) window
that draws staff on screen, it should be possible to accept events on
the opengl? window from the mouse (ie if it draws several objects, lets
say 4 squares and a circle if i click over one to be able to tell
which i clicked etc), preferably run v.fast, and have implementations
for both mswin and linux. Ideally, i would like to be able to draw
using the mouse on the window i described previously.
About my Programming background:
Very limited ... I only know quite well Matlab ( no C, no Java etc) and
have implemented things in actionscript. Also, I have never used opengl
but I am planning to learn.
So... as the subject says, which one should I choose?
clisp?, cmucl? , sbcl?, scheme? ... to mention a few...
thanks for your reply and time,
Nick
···········@gmail.com writes:
> I first heard of lisp a few months ago, while googling on genetic
> programming.
> Then I found the video lectures of Abelson and Sussman which I enjoyed
> watching...
> About a month ago, I realised that the scripting laguage of gimp is
> lisp....
>
> Anyway... it is a language I am looking forward to learn. And because
> for me the best approach to learn something is while implementing it, I
> have the multiple dilemma of which one should I choose.
>
> My small (?) project will involve a gui, some kind of (opengl?) window
> that draws staff on screen, it should be possible to accept events on
> the opengl? window from the mouse (ie if it draws several objects, lets
> say 4 squares and a circle if i click over one to be able to tell
> which i clicked etc), preferably run v.fast, and have implementations
> for both mswin and linux. Ideally, i would like to be able to draw
> using the mouse on the window i described previously.
>
> About my Programming background:
> Very limited ... I only know quite well Matlab ( no C, no Java etc) and
> have implemented things in actionscript. Also, I have never used opengl
> but I am planning to learn.
>
> So... as the subject says, which one should I choose?
> clisp?, cmucl? , sbcl?, scheme? ... to mention a few...
If you want portability to Windows, I think clisp is your best bet. I
don't know if cl-sdl works with clisp, but if it does then you may be
in luck. cl-sdl is a Common Lisp interface to the SDL library, which
is a cross-platform library for everything from OpenGL to sound.
That said, you may be wise to start learning the Lisp language by
attacking problems that explore more of what Lisp has to offer than
what amounts to a graphical Hello World.
Thanks for your reply... it seems that clisp doesn't fully support
cl-sdl, but cmucl does ... and since the graphics capabilities are more
important for what i have in mind than Windows, I'll probably use
cmucl.
As for exploring what Lisp has to offer, I am sure that on the way to
implementing my project (which is actually on evolutionary design and
far too ambitious) I will be doing just that.
Thanks again for your advice
············@gmail.com" <···········@gmail.com> writes:
> Thanks for your reply... it seems that clisp doesn't fully support
> cl-sdl, but cmucl does ... and since the graphics capabilities are more
> important for what i have in mind than Windows, I'll probably use
> cmucl.
>
> As for exploring what Lisp has to offer, I am sure that on the way to
> implementing my project (which is actually on evolutionary design and
> far too ambitious) I will be doing just that.
>
> Thanks again for your advice
The other advice that is worth repeating is to use Emacs and SLIME for
your development work. This combination lets you use the Lisp of your
choice while developing incrementally and doing all the other
wonderful things that Lisp encourages you to do.
···········@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for your reply... it seems that clisp doesn't fully support
> cl-sdl, but cmucl does ... and since the graphics capabilities are more
> important for what i have in mind than Windows, I'll probably use
> cmucl.
lispbuilder-sdl works on Windows and Linux (and lispbuilder-sdl works with
cl-opengl, lispbuilder-opengl is deprecated) :
http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/lispbuilder/trunk/lispbuilder-sdl/documentation/index.html
But maybe it is possible to use cl-opengl, only, with freeglut, which
should work on Windows, Linux and MacOS.
--
Frank Buss, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
From: Ken Tilton
Subject: Re: which one should I choose?
Date:
Message-ID: <_av4g.30$D8.20@fe10.lga>
Frank Buss wrote:
> ···········@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks for your reply... it seems that clisp doesn't fully support
>>cl-sdl, but cmucl does ... and since the graphics capabilities are more
>>important for what i have in mind than Windows, I'll probably use
>>cmucl.
>
>
> lispbuilder-sdl works on Windows and Linux (and lispbuilder-sdl works with
> cl-opengl, lispbuilder-opengl is deprecated) :
>
> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/lispbuilder/trunk/lispbuilder-sdl/documentation/index.html
>
> But maybe it is possible to use cl-opengl, only, with freeglut, which
> should work on Windows, Linux and MacOS.
>
Yep. Check out Cello on c-l.net for bindings and sample code. My
subdirectory cl-opengl has a test function which uses freeglut.
Actually, cl-opengl is a misnomer since that directory includes
everything you need for freeglut.
otoh, there may be a better alternative. Tcl/Tk includes an actively
supported widget called Togl, which seems to be an embedding of freeglut
(or openglut) within a Tk widget.
Frank and I are working as we speak to make that accessible from Lisp.
(It is a Tk oddity, a widget meant to be accompanied by C programming.
That is fine for us, so we are ignoring the even more Tk-ish tcl3dTogl
widget.)
Tuned stay.
kenny
--
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
"Have you ever been in a relationship?"
Attorney for Mary Winkler, confessed killer of her
minister husband, when asked if the couple had
marital problems.
···········@gmail.com wrote:
> Anyway... it is a language I am looking forward to learn. And because
> for me the best approach to learn something is while implementing it, I
> have the multiple dilemma of which one should I choose.
I'm not sure it matters much. Pick one, and start programming. I
learned CL with a really offbeat system, one that actually conformed
more to ClTl than to the final spec (also had a scheme, an ML, and an
implementation of an obscure language called pop-11). It wasn't that
hard to move to a different implementation. You should concentrate, at
first, given your background, on learning the basics of programming.
Any CL will do for that, and even a scheme would not be inappropriate.
> My small (?) project will involve a gui, some kind of (opengl?) window
> that draws staff on screen, it should be possible to accept events on
> the opengl? window from the mouse (ie if it draws several objects, lets
> say 4 squares and a circle if i click over one to be able to tell
> which i clicked etc), preferably run v.fast, and have implementations
> for both mswin and linux. Ideally, i would like to be able to draw
> using the mouse on the window i described previously.
I'm not sure that you really need all that- as I said earlier, you
might be better off just learning to write code. But if you insist on
all of these things I think you should look at the commercial
implementations. Both Lispworks and Allegro have trial versions.
But (editorial to follow) please don't fall into the trap of thinking
that programming is largely a matter of making calls to libraries. It's
not a bad thing to know the APIs that allow you to quickly produce
programs with GUIs, but... it's not a very important thing either. A
good programmer can learn an API quickly. Obsessing over things like
GUIs can impede your progess toward being a good programmer.
···········@gmail.com writes:
> I first heard of lisp a few months ago, while googling on genetic
> programming.
I suggest that you have a look at this book:
Practical Common Lisp
http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://wiki.alu.org/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
The Common Lisp Directory: http://www.cl-user.net
> About my Programming background:
> Very limited ... I only know quite well Matlab ( no C, no Java etc) and
> have implemented things in actionscript. Also, I have never used opengl
> but I am planning to learn.
>
> So... as the subject says, which one should I choose?
> clisp?, cmucl? , sbcl?, scheme? ... to mention a few...
If you want to do GUI stuff, then do yourself a favor and
get a commercial implementation. It would make a huge
difference.