Hi,
Not quite a programming query.
My decompiler company's software is now based on Lisp (Clisp at present)
after a 5-week rewrite (and a fifth of the size with more functionality),
and I wondered if there's a flashy "Made with Lisp" logo I can put on my
website?
Cheers,
Jeremy.
On 26 Oct 2005 03:00:26 -0700, ····@hotpop.com wrote:
> The powered-by-lisp logo is on a few pages, I don't know if it's
> free.
>
> http://www.thocp.net/software/languages/lisp.htm
I guess you'll have to ask Kent Pitman:
<http://www.hypermeta.com/>
See "Legal notices."
Cheers,
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> wrote in ··················@agharta.de:
> On 26 Oct 2005 03:00:26 -0700, ····@hotpop.com wrote:
>
>> The powered-by-lisp logo is on a few pages, I don't know if it's
>> free.
>>
>> http://www.thocp.net/software/languages/lisp.htm
>
> I guess you'll have to ask Kent Pitman:
>
> <http://www.hypermeta.com/>
>
> See "Legal notices."
>
> Cheers,
> Edi.
>
I asked Kent Pitman. The answer is at this URL:
http://www.common-lisp.info/logos/
"Copyright � 2003 HyperMeta Inc.
Permission is given to use this logo without fee for commercial and non-
commercial purposes to herald the use of Lisp in an application provided
that this copyright notice is included with any such use and/or that the
use of the logo directly links back to common-lisp.info or
hypermeta.com."
So that resolves my original question. Thanks for the pointer!
Cheers,
Jeremy.
······@gmail.com wrote in news:1130418052.069831.306630
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> A new *public domain* logo created by me is forthcoming shortly. Check
> back on saturday.
>
> -Conrad Barski
> www.lisperati.com
>
Hi,
This sounds good. I'm looking forward to the results!
Thanks,
Jeremy.
"Cruise Director" <···········@gmail.com> writes:
> Jeremy Smith wrote:
> >
> > I asked Kent Pitman. The answer is at this URL:
> >
> > http://www.common-lisp.info/logos/
> >
> > "Copyright � 2003 HyperMeta Inc.
> >
> > Permission is given to use this logo without fee for commercial and non-
> > commercial purposes to herald the use of Lisp in an application provided
> > that this copyright notice is included with any such use and/or that the
> > use of the logo directly links back to common-lisp.info or
> > hypermeta.com."
>
> Free advertizing for another company and a cumbersome notice is a hefty
> price to pay for a mere logo, especially one that isn't very good.
> This logo is way too busy, and has a froofy "Made in France" quality
> that reminds me of a joke logo I made for Python a long time ago. I've
> been through several amateur logo designing efforts for programming
> languages. I assure you that you can do better than this, if you put a
> team of volunteers to it. Not that I'm volunteering, as for now I'm in
> the Scheme camp.
Sigh. It's messages like this that some days make me wish I had never
volunteered anything to anyone. Some days I think all that volunteerism
brings is a sense of entitlement on the part of those to whom things are
volunteered. Ick.
First, let me say I'm all for the idea of there being many such logos.
And it makes sense for the creator of each to set whatever terms they
want for the use of them. Each consumer will decide for him/herself
whether the logo is what they want, and whether the usage requirements
suit them. I think a marketplace of ideas and products is all for the
good.
But beyond that, I don't see why it's particularly necessary to
criticize either me or our friends in France. If you don't want to
use something, don't use it. I think it's petty to waste valuable space
here taking trivial, non-constructive stabs against this or anything.
Anyone looking at these logos can decide for themselves--they don't need
Jeremy's or anyone's expert opinion to guide them in their choice.
And further, I didn't advocate the use of my logo. My site just uses it
for its own purposes. Jeremy asked of his own accord and I responded
as helpfully as I felt I could. Bleah. While I'm happy to help him,
I'm now sorry I even bothered to make the thing available on any terms.
Not because I'm not happy with others using the logo--just because I am
saddened to have turned over this particular stone and to have seen the
social rot growing beneath it.
And while I'm at it--Jeremy has in his haste to cast aspersions also
mischaracterized my stated terms, and then gone on to criticize his
imagined understanding of those terms terms. Just to be clear: my use
of "and/or" means you can satisfy either or both of the terms. It is
logically equivalent to what computer scientists would call IOR, but
some non-CS people (lawyers, that is) read "or" as "xor" and get
confused. In any case, all I asked was that anyone using the logo
acknowledge its origin, and then, realizing this was probably onerous
for simple cases, I added the additional option of allowing a pointer
to either of those two sites satisfy the requirement of acknowledging
me exactly so that you DON'T have to have a legal notices page that
mentions me. And then beyond that, I both allowed you to point to
HyperMeta.com (indeed, my professional page) OR to common-lisp.info
(which I maintain myself at some cost to me, but which has only the
barest of corporate affiliations in that in one corner of one of its
pages it happens to mention hypermeta). So I really think you're
overstating it when you say you think that a "hefty" price to pay.
My reasons for wanting a canonical label was not entirely mercenary either.
First, I seriously doubt that a pointer to HyperMeta will get me business
I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I just think credit is a reasonable
gesture as a matter of simple courtesy. But I thought there might be search
tools that counted how many pages point to this or that place, and I
figured it couldn't hurt to get a few pointers to common-lisp.info to maybe
up its presence in search enginges. That wasn't just for my sake, it's for
Common Lisp's. common-lisp.info doesn't sell anything but Lisp, really.
Yes, I maintain it. But there are many CL-related names others maintain
and I don't begrudge those others. I just didn't feel obliged to ask people
to point to a page other than my own when using a logo that I paid money
(not a huge amount, but real cash) to have designed.
What really, really bothers me here is the apparent implication
that "free advertising" is too great a price to pay for a "mere logo" (not
just this one). He's basically lobbying politically for people to say
that this is too high a price. And so, I take this opportunity of my own
to say "no, it is not." Ignore the issue of my particular artwork. The
fact is that a simple link or acknowledgement on a legal notices page is
NOT too much to ask. Or so I allege. Just one person's opinion. But then,
so was Jeremy's. If he's entitled, I am too.
When people hear me rant against free software, and the way it has
devalued the concept of people valuing the contribution of anyone to
anything, this message to which I am replying is a poster child for
the kind of "gimme gimme" community that we are growing. The legacy
of that style of thinking is people who are receiving value thinking
that even a mere acknowledgment of origin as beyond the pale. How
dreadfully, dreadfully sad the "community" we have built that it would
not be outraged by a statement like that.
This is my last message on this thread for a time. I don't want this
to turn into a long drawn out thing. I just wanted to say in clear
terms that this is a moment for everyone to just stop and think.
Reach your own conclusion. But at least know that this statement
Jeremy made was far from uncontroversial, and that at least one person
who read it was quite strongly offended and saddened.
I haven't had a lot of time to post here of late. And I'm sorry this
was the first message I ran into upon finally having a few minutes to
get caught up. Because it means I have no patience with reading further
and involving myself in other matters that might have been more interesting.
On one hand, I thought it fair for me to take equal time to state the
opposition point of view. On the other hand, I thought Jeremy's post
was out of line, so by symmetry so must mine be. As of this message,
I'll voluntarily opt out of posting for a time in pennance for having
myself wasted the group's time stating a position of personal
preference.
End of rant. Bleah. Bad taste in mouth about this whole matter.
I'll try back again in 2 or 3 weeks perhaps.
Whoops--before someone else says the obvious...
My previous message referred to "Jeremy" in several places where I
meant refer to "Cruise Director". (Perhaps the absence of a regular
name confused me into thinking to the innermost actual name was the
other of the post I responded to.) In any case, my sincere apologies
to Jeremy for misattributing "Cruise Director"'s remarks to him. (I
was upset but should have proofread better.)
Ok, back into exile with me now...
Kent M Pitman <······@nhplace.com> writes:
>
> Whoops--before someone else says the obvious...
>
> My previous message referred to "Jeremy" in several places where I
> meant refer to "Cruise Director". (Perhaps the absence of a regular
> name confused me into thinking to the innermost actual name was the
> other of the post I responded to.) In any case, my sincere apologies
> to Jeremy for misattributing "Cruise Director"'s remarks to him. (I
> was upset but should have proofread better.)
Ignore 'Cruise Director'; apparently he is a dilettante of an even lower
order than myself (which feat I'd have though impossible until
relatively recently).
For my own part, I don't see much wrong with asking for a link to a
Common Lisp site for a CL logo.
--
Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl>
Or, to put it another way, if you see a long line of rats streaming off
of a ship, the correct assumption is *not* `gosh, I bet that's a real
nice boat now that those rats are gone.' --Mike Sphar
Kent M Pitman <······@nhplace.com> wrote in ··················@nhplace.com:
> Whoops--before someone else says the obvious...
>
> My previous message referred to "Jeremy" in several places where I
> meant refer to "Cruise Director". (Perhaps the absence of a regular
> name confused me into thinking to the innermost actual name was the
> other of the post I responded to.) In any case, my sincere apologies
> to Jeremy for misattributing "Cruise Director"'s remarks to him. (I
> was upset but should have proofread better.)
>
> Ok, back into exile with me now...
Apology accepted, though I didn't know you posted any messages until I
checked here again.
Into exile for me too. I've had enough insults for one week, one of them in
the form of a piece of Lisp code, which takes the biscuit.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
Cruise Director wrote:
> Sorry, your logo isn't much good.
Just out of curiosity: How is the logo for your company getting along?
Not to forget your website?
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Closer to MOP & ContextL:
http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Pascal Costanza wrote:
> Cruise Director wrote:
>
> > Sorry, your logo isn't much good.
>
> Just out of curiosity: How is the logo for your company getting along?
> Not to forget your website?
I'm usually happy to tell people about my circumstances if they really
want to know. I believe in a certain transparency of action, rather
than being the kind of chickenshit who always has to maintain the best
appearance in a public forum lest someone find out that they aren't
perfect or have failings. I'd just like all the young men out there to
know that you do *not* have to play the male ego game forever, where
you're afraid of ever showing any kind of weakness to anyone. The
willingness to be transparent can be a source of strength in and of
itself. Even a source of grudging respect: you may not like what I do,
but I do not lie about it, or attempt to hide it.
The truth is, I recently completed a bankruptcy of $82K. And as of
Monday, thanks to the ephemerally lucrative profession of signature
gathering, I'll be completely debt free for the 1st time in roughly 6
years. These changes in my life circumstances and financial fortunes
have made me think hard about my career. I decided the obvious: since
I've dragged my feet every time I've sat down to work on a website,
clearly I'm not going to. There's way too much shit to do and web
advertizement is a very low priority. I don't have any clients, but in
terms of someday getting clients, it really doesn't count. What counts
is talking to people face-to-face, where there is far less chance of
people getting pissy about whatever it is they think they're supposed
to get pissy about.
This was all spelled out to me in articles about the art of consulting
a long time ago, that one really shouldn't fool around with websites
and business cards and logos, that one should just get on with the job
of cold calling, sales pitches, getting some business going
straightaway, etc. But as with many things in life, people make
emotional decisions, and it just took a number of lumps before I
finally accepted the truth of what more experienced consultants had
told me.
Usenet, btw, doesn't count. That's why I feel perfectly free to tell
you all of this. Even as I talk about contributing to a
www.lispalien.com website, it's not because I think I have anything to
gain from people who discover the website online. Rather, I think it
would make a damn snappy business card, handed over in person. I could
sell a website like that and myself at the same time. It would be a
pretty good flag to fly.
Anyways, I decided that I was never fully satisfied with the "Indie
Game Design" brand identity anyways. Even less so lately, now that I
worry about HLLs, FPLs, and compiler technologies. It was a better
name than "3DProgrammer," an identity I found far too limiting, but it
was ultimately a transitional identity. I don't want to make the
classic mistake of an identity that limits the kind of business I can
engage in. I have yet to conjure up a new identity. I've decided that
when/if I do, I'll create a website first and unveil it later.
Maybe on your techie ears, all this self-indulgent marketing talk will
sound completely obnoxious. To which I say: get up to speed on
marketing skills, because that's how consultants and companies like
Microsoft actually get things done. I trashed Kent's logo because it
is no good and is onerously licensed. You want to see a good logo, go
look at the alien logo. Night and day. Wheat and chafe. I don't
expect artistic competency from techies, but it would be refreshing if
for once, those who can't assess aesthetics would recognize the limits
of their competence. You don't believe? Find yourself a graphic
design forum and let *them* rip the logo to shreds. Then you'll learn
some basic craft.
Cheers,
Brandon Van Every
15 minute famous signature gatherer / signmaker ordinnaire
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=23827
"Cruise Director" <···········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> The truth is, I recently completed a bankruptcy of $82K.
And how many dollars did your creditors see?
> And as of Monday, thanks to the ephemerally lucrative profession of
> signature gathering, I'll be completely debt free for the 1st time in
> roughly 6 years.
Legally, sure. Morally is another matter.
--
Robert Uhl <http://public.xdi.org/=ruhl>
I always buy white autos only. That way, the cops call in a speeding
red car once I've gone by, but the ones at the roadblocks see a blue one
coming their way. --J.D. Baldwin
Robert Uhl wrote:
> "Cruise Director" <···········@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > The truth is, I recently completed a bankruptcy of $82K.
>
> And how many dollars did your creditors see?
Wow, some people really love to talk about me. Ok, I'll briefly
oblige. I filed Chapter 7 and paid $0 to my creditors. At the time I
filed, I was completely destitute - like food bank destitute - and had
no earning power to ever pay the money back. So I got off scott free.
In other words, I won. And if any of you are in Seattle and have been
thinking about bankruptcy, I can certainly recommend a good lawyer.
See, isn't transparency great? You get to talk to people who know
what's going on, who have "been there done that," instead of everyone
being all macho about how they never screw up or have any problems.
Would you like to talk about some of your own failings now, Robert?
I'll tell you one thing, when you've been through the wringer as hard
as I have, you sure as hell aren't afraid of what people think about
you anymore. It just doesn't matter. I've had *much* harder things to
deal with than anything you could possibly throw at me. What's
depressing is thinking about all the people whose circumstances were
much more miserable than my own.
> > And as of Monday, thanks to the ephemerally lucrative profession of
> > signature gathering, I'll be completely debt free for the 1st time in
> > roughly 6 years.
>
> Legally, sure. Morally is another matter.
I couldn't give a rat's ass about the banks. They spend all their time
hooking people on credit, even people they know full well have an
abysmal credit rating. Then they do things like Enron and Global
Crossing, sending the whole economy and my livelihood into the toilet.
The whole damn country runs on humongous debt and there's simply no
moral example to follow here. The USA is corrupt and its economic
value probably rests upon force of arms, not goods or services. I have
wondered how long the USA can have such a totally dysfunctional
debt-ridden economy before we actually start experiencing serious life
pain. At least in filing bankruptcy I didn't break any laws. I used
the law, so that's that.
I do feel myself to be morally indebted to my landlord. He extended me
enormous credit, without which I would have had a far more difficult
time surviving the recession period. When I told him I had to file
bankruptcy, because some bank was sueing me, he took it well and said I
was like family. I intend to pay him back what I owe plus a big chunk
of change someday, when I'm rich again. That isn't now, so I'm not
stressing about it at the moment.
There's a big difference between greedy institutions and human beings.
And this is turning into a blog, so that's the last question I'm
answering about me. You didn't really want the answer anyways. You
just thought it would make me uncomfortable for some reason to ask
pointed questions. You cannot *possibly* make me uncomfortable about
such things. I post this mainly for cultural diversity, so that
someone somewhere realizes they don't really have to go through all the
"ape rituals" on Usenet day in and day out. I mean, in closing, Gr,
Grw Gr-ww-wwooo, Gr-WW-OOOO, Gr-W-OOO! WWWO!!! Please see my arms
flapping up and down mightily.
Cheers,
Brandon Van Every
Cruise Director wrote:
> This was all spelled out to me in articles about the art of consulting
> a long time ago, that one really shouldn't fool around with websites
> and business cards and logos, that one should just get on with the job
> of cold calling, sales pitches, getting some business going
> straightaway, etc. But as with many things in life, people make
> emotional decisions, and it just took a number of lumps before I
> finally accepted the truth of what more experienced consultants had
> told me.
It's good to hear that you have made an important first step towards
learning that you have to provide something substantial in order to be
able to "do business".
> Maybe on your techie ears, all this self-indulgent marketing talk will
> sound completely obnoxious. To which I say: get up to speed on
> marketing skills, because that's how consultants and companies like
> Microsoft actually get things done.
No, Microsoft can only "get things done" because they have something to
sell, that is, their software. Sure, an important part in selling their
products is the marketing, especially because their products are not
that good, but _without_ any software whatsoever no marketing whatsoever
would help them. Essentially this means that they provide something
substantial, something that people actually _want_. Marketing can only
help insofar it can make people realize that their product is what they
actually want. (There are some problems involved in here, but this
description is a good approximation.)
My impression is that you are easily getting sidetracked by secondary
concerns, i.e. the marketing. Even worse: you are continually trying to
convince people to focus on those secondary concerns as well.
We can be happy that a very imaginative and talented guy named Conrad
Barski has created a great logo that is probably going to spread. This
is an accident, a very lucky one, but an accident. My impression is that
the Lisp community is steadily growing, and this will result in other
people going to contribute other things that will help improve things
even more. The important point, however, is that these people will
probably only contribute in areas in which they have certain skills and
talents - and this is good! Conrad Barski is good in visualizing
important aspects in a very entertaining way, so this is what he
contributes. Some people are good in maintaining software projects. Some
people are good at writing code. Some people are good at providing
infrastructure. Some people are good at organizing meetings and events.
And so forth. And they _are_ contributing.
For example, I know that I shouldn't create a logo or a sophisticated
website presence because I am not good at it. If your continued attempts
to convince us that we should focus more on logos, websites, and so on
would succeed, I would be doing things which I am not good at. That
would not result in useful contributions. Fortunately, your attempts
continue to fail in my case, and I hope that I am getting better results
with the things I am actually doing.
Another way to look at this is to realize that there is no grand plan
behind the activities in the Lisp community, there is noone who is
steering things. Instead, several people and groups of people are
improving things in a grassroots approach, contributing whatever they
happen to be able to contribute. I am convinced that this is a strength,
not a weakness, and reflects important aspects of Lisp: since Lisp is a
language that stresses programmers' freedom to structure their programs
in whatever way they see fit, it wouldn't make sense to impose some kind
of unitary vision. (In that sense, Conrad Barski's logo hits the nail on
the head.)
The hope is that this kind of piecemeal growth is enough to help Lisp
continue to succeed the way it already does. And it doesn't need to
become mainstream in order to succeed. Lisp's focus has always been on
substance over form, and in the long run this is a good thing.
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Closer to MOP & ContextL:
http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Pascal Costanza wrote:
>
> My impression is that you are easily getting sidetracked by secondary
> concerns, i.e. the marketing. Even worse: you are continually trying to
> convince people to focus on those secondary concerns as well.
My impression is I'm making $75/hour at peak doing signature gathering.
It's too bad it's a feast-or-famine industry. If I could pull that
off regularly, I'd have quite a business model. Actually as it stands,
my skill at extracting signatures improves every season. I'm not quite
pro yet, it's just way too boring, but who knows I may yet turn pro.
In other words, I'm not interested in talking about what my
distractions are. I'll make my money my way, and you go make yours.
There's a crowd that likes to make these things about "me," but that's
not the subject here. The subject is whether the logos are good, and
whether their licensing terms are commensurate with their quality. You
know where I stand on that.
> We can be happy that a very imaginative and talented guy named Conrad
> Barski has created a great logo that is probably going to spread. This
> is an accident, a very lucky one, but an accident.
Nevertheless, he's laid a golden egg, so I'm inclined to back him as
much as I can. Nobody laid golden eggs in Python-land. We did have
some heavy duty CEOs in the fold who could articulate correct marketing
strategy, and we were disciplined. It took us about a month to hash
out a decent logo. There were many rejects. It's too bad we were
unable to secure what turned out to be the real objective: getting the
BDFL on board. Live and learn.
> Some people are good at organizing meetings and events.
Such as yours truly. For a user group, the only skill is making sure
it gets done. You make sure you send out the e-mail announcements,
that you show up for the meeting, so that there is in fact a meeting,
etc.
> Another way to look at this is to realize that there is no grand plan
> behind the activities in the Lisp community, there is noone who is
> steering things. Instead, several people and groups of people are
> improving things in a grassroots approach, contributing whatever they
> happen to be able to contribute. I am convinced that this is a strength,
> not a weakness, and reflects important aspects of Lisp: since Lisp is a
> language that stresses programmers' freedom to structure their programs
> in whatever way they see fit, it wouldn't make sense to impose some kind
> of unitary vision. (In that sense, Conrad Barski's logo hits the nail on
> the head.)
Totally agree. I'm so glad there's no BDFL around here.
> The hope is that this kind of piecemeal growth is enough to help Lisp
> continue to succeed the way it already does. And it doesn't need to
> become mainstream in order to succeed. Lisp's focus has always been on
> substance over form, and in the long run this is a good thing.
Be that as it may, there's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey! Barski's
got hot content! Let's amplify the hell out of this!" That's not a
statement of centralization or exclusivity. That's a statement of,
let's snowball this thing and get something done.
Cheers,
Brandon Van Every
"The pioneer is the one with the arrows in his back."
- anonymous entrepreneur
Pascal Costanza wrote:
> We can be happy that a very imaginative and talented guy named Conrad
> Barski has created a great logo that is probably going to spread.
And maybe sooner than you think. I, for one, have included one of his
logos on my (admittedly amatuerish) lisp pages:
http://www.markcarter.me.uk/computing/lisp/lisp.htm
I've included a link to his logo page in my links section. I'm more than
happy to extend a courtesy to someone whose work I use and who gives
their work away freely.
As regards J McCarthy's logo - well, let's just say that it isn't on my
website.
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:01:37 +0000, Mark Carter <··@privacy.net> tried
to confuse everyone with this message:
>Pascal Costanza wrote:
>
>> We can be happy that a very imaginative and talented guy named Conrad
>> Barski has created a great logo that is probably going to spread.
>
>
>And maybe sooner than you think. I, for one, have included one of his
>logos on my (admittedly amatuerish) lisp pages:
>http://www.markcarter.me.uk/computing/lisp/lisp.htm
I for one, included it in Wikibooks Common Lisp page:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Common_Lisp
By the way, I know there are many Lisp wikis, but making a free Lisp
textbook for general public could be a good idea. It can even become
"Book of the Month" - and that could make more people aware of the
language.
--
|a\o/r|,-------------.,---------- Timofei Shatrov aka Grue ------------.
| m"a ||FC AMKAR PERM|| mail: grue at mail.ru http://grue3.tripod.com |
| k || PWNZ J00 || Kingdom of Loathing: Grue3 lvl 18 Seal Clubber |
`-----'`-------------'`-------------------------------------------[4*72]
····@mail.ru (Timofei Shatrov) writes:
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:01:37 +0000, Mark Carter <··@privacy.net> tried
> to confuse everyone with this message:
>
> By the way, I know there are many Lisp wikis, but making a free Lisp
> textbook for general public could be a good idea. It can even become
> "Book of the Month" - and that could make more people aware of the
> language.
>
Here is a list of some freely available online books on lisp, and I am sure
there are many more:
"Practical Common Lisp" be Peter Seibel
http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/
"On Lisp" by Paul Graham
http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html
"Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" by David
S. Touretzky
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
If you want to write one more textbook on lisp, you are definitely welcome :)
--
Surendra Singhi
http://www.public.asu.edu/~sksinghi/index.html
,----
| By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you
| get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
| -- Socrates
`----
Mark Carter <··@privacy.net> writes:
> Pascal Costanza wrote:
>
>> We can be happy that a very imaginative and talented guy named
>> Conrad Barski has created a great logo that is probably going to
>> spread.
>
>
> And maybe sooner than you think. I, for one, have included one of his
> logos on my (admittedly amatuerish) lisp pages:
> http://www.markcarter.me.uk/computing/lisp/lisp.htm
Please, correct the spelling: there's no clisp or CLISP programming language.
There's a Common Lisp, or CL programming language.
And there's a implementation of the Common Lisp programming language named clisp.
(because it is a lisp implemented in C ;-)
Writting about a "clisp programming language" sounds like it's only
about clisp specific extensions.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
This is a signature virus. Add me to your signature and help me to live
I don't know about the others but I definately like Pittman Logo.
It looks very stylish and I would definately put it in some serious
Lisp implementation . Konrad logos are good but they sound somehing
like:
"Anything but serious"
Just my impression
Slobodan
http://blazeski.blogspot.com/
"Cruise Director" <···········@gmail.com> writes:
> Sorry, your logo isn't much good. I think if you run it past a bunch
> of unbiased graphic designers they'll tell you the same thing, that
> it's too busy and complicated, has no on-point message of any kind, has
> a weak visual identity, etc. I'd have spared you the harsh criticism
> if you didn't have a self-serving license for using the logo. I'm not
> one to knock things that are free; I am one to knock things that ask
> for a lot while offering little in return.
Congratulations on achieving the anatomically impossible with your
head and Uranus.
--
http://www.david-steuber.com/
The UnBlog: An island of conformity in a sea of quirks.
The lowest click through rate in Google's AdSense program.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
····@hotpop.com writes:
> The powered-by-lisp logo is on a few pages, I don't know if it's free.
>
> http://www.thocp.net/software/languages/lisp.htm
Ouch, but what a horrible page that is! Some highlights:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LISP however is not a very general language and is only suited for
general symbol manipulation and list processing.
LISP means symbolic manipulation. Some simple examples:
* (TIMES 12 4)
o this will give 48
LISP means manipulating lists, that's all.
Anyone who wants to start with LISP, can go to the website of CLISP or
common-lisp.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I wonder why they didn't mention that it is dog slow, too.
The logo, on the other hand, is cute.
Andras
Andras Simon wrote:
> I wonder why they didn't mention that it is dog slow, too.
What is? CLisp? Well, so are PHP's and Python's reference
implementations, and lots of people are happy with them.
But of course you are free to choose other, faster (because natively
compiled) implementations, if you need the performance.
--
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Ulrich Hobelmann wrote:
> Andras Simon wrote:
>
>> I wonder why they didn't mention that it is dog slow, too.
>
>
> What is? CLisp? Well, so are PHP's and Python's reference
> implementations, and lots of people are happy with them.
Well, CLisp's compiler is certainly fast. The (byte) code
it generates may not be, but in some situations that's what
you want.
It would be cool to add another layer of dynamic compilation
to CLisp's byte codes, going from them down to machine instructions.
Maybe something like GNU Lightning could be made to work.
Paul
Ulrich Hobelmann <···········@web.de> writes:
> Andras Simon wrote:
> > I wonder why they didn't mention that it is dog slow, too.
>
> What is? CLisp? Well, so are PHP's and Python's reference
> implementations, and lots of people are happy with them.
>
> But of course you are free to choose other, faster (because natively
> compiled) implementations, if you need the performance.
Sigh. I thought it was unnecessary to adorn my post with a smiley, but
apparently not. Either that, or I fail to recognize the implicit
smiley in your followup.
Andras
On 26 Oct 2005 17:01:59 +0200, Andras Simon <······@math.bme.hu> wrote:
> Sigh. I thought it was unnecessary to adorn my post with a smiley,
> but apparently not.
There's always someone who doesn't get it... :)
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Andras Simon wrote:
> Ulrich Hobelmann <···········@web.de> writes:
>
>> Andras Simon wrote:
>>> I wonder why they didn't mention that it is dog slow, too.
>> What is? CLisp? Well, so are PHP's and Python's reference
>> implementations, and lots of people are happy with them.
>>
>> But of course you are free to choose other, faster (because natively
>> compiled) implementations, if you need the performance.
>
> Sigh. I thought it was unnecessary to adorn my post with a smiley, but
> apparently not. Either that, or I fail to recognize the implicit
> smiley in your followup.
Argh. I suppose I was too tired to really understand your post.
Note to self: read better before posting.
--
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Jeremy Smith <············@decompiler.org> writes:
> My decompiler company's software is now based on Lisp (Clisp at present)
> after a 5-week rewrite (and a fifth of the size with more functionality),
> and I wondered if there's a flashy "Made with Lisp" logo I can put on my
> website?
I didn't see anyone else suggesting this, so I'll recommend this 80x15
button generator:
http://www.lucazappa.com/brilliantMaker/buttonImage.php
80x15 buttons are very popular on blogs and websites, especially for
"powered by"-logos, due to their small and manageable size.
--
Troels "Athas" Henriksen
check out the new thread on this topic:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/78a12e67ec5fd294/2228921d91bd8acc#2228921d91bd8acc
-Conrad
Jeremy Smith wrote:
> and I wondered if there's a flashy "Made with Lisp" logo I can put on my
> website?
You may pick one of these:
http://wikihost.org/wikis/lisplogogreate
Or you may put ones you find elsewhere there, too (it is just a wiki)
Ciao,
Bernd
Bernd Schmitt wrote:
> You may pick one of these:
> http://wikihost.org/wikis/lisplogogreate
The turning-source-code-page-logo needs some improvement. Normally you
write the closing parantheses not in an extra line in Lisp and /= for
string compare?
--
Frank Bu�, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
Jeremy Smith wrote:
> My decompiler company's software is now based on Lisp (Clisp at present)
> after a 5-week rewrite (and a fifth of the size with more functionality),
> and I wondered if there's a flashy "Made with Lisp" logo I can put on my
> website?
Google introduced the idea of seasonal logos. This book cover
qualifies for the halloween logo.
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0201120801/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-8464911-9360831#reader-link>
The cover is designed by Marshall Henrichs.
--
Jens Axel S�gaard