From: Ramza Brown
Subject: To the Challenge question and a quick application from a J2EE guy
Date:
Message-ID: <w6WdnWQBFKqi8tXeRVn-qg@comcast.com>
To the lisp challenge question:
"I don't think these people write
any programs at all, and that they are just trolls
who should be ignored"
I was a J2EE (still am because of the job), but mostly Python for my
opensource projects. Now, I am into lisp full swing. This is really
fun. To the challenge person question, who will code in java till they
die(sick), here is parser for access_log files, very quick and it works
out of the box, took about a week to create, I hope to work on it a
little more. So THAT is what you can do with lisp.
And a little spam, check out my logger parser:
SperoLogger is a lisp based application to parse Apache web server
log files
and extract useful information. From this data, sperologger will
create data logging reports.
Note: currently, sperologger operates through off-line processing.
This means, it is recommended to run this application
seperately from your host webserver. For example, you
can run this from a desktop application. You will need
a way to access your access_log. This can be accomplished
through the java utility.
Blog entry on the topic:
http://newspiritcompany.com/blog/article/228/sperologger-v00-released-parse-accesslog-files-with-lisp
--
Ramza from Atlanta
http://www.newspiritcompany.com
On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 21:15:38 -0400, Ramza Brown
<············@gmail.com> wrote:
>To the lisp challenge question:
>
>"I don't think these people write
>any programs at all, and that they are just trolls
>who should be ignored"
>
>I was a J2EE (still am because of the job), but mostly Python for my
>opensource projects. Now, I am into lisp full swing. This is really
>fun. To the challenge person question, who will code in java till they
>die(sick), here is parser for access_log files, very quick and it works
>out of the box, took about a week to create, I hope to work on it a
>little more. So THAT is what you can do with lisp.
a) You don't say WHAT this program is doing, b) This program looks
like rather long, c) I created parser for log files in Perl, for
different application, but BNF specs for log syntax was about 2
pages (I don't use XML since XML has too much redundancy).
It took me also about a week.
What you want to prove? That you can do something in language X?
Nobody questions this. However, the most important part of your
post, quote:
">I was a J2EE (still am because of the job), but mostly Python for
my opensource projects..."
Well, somehow you was not able to convince your boss to dump J2EE
ans switch to Lisp. Why? Isn't Lisp better?...
A.L.
P.S. I salute you for having time to do open source projects. When
do you sleep?...
"I was a J2EE (still am because of the job), but mostly Python for
my opensource projects..."
"Well, somehow you was not able to convince your boss to dump J2EE
ans switch to Lisp. Why? Isn't Lisp better?... "
Are you kidding me?
To be fair. Lisp and/or Python could have been used, but the J2EE
libraries already exist. To some degree we arent really be programmers
but integrators. We call the right functions(methods) in the right
place to make the application work.
There are some things that could easily be done better in lisp, mainly
so much data is stored in compiled java classes, when that data could
be transferred to some script environment or something less static, but
java works through accessors and mutators, that is life.
But, the database connectivity, version control of data, transactions
is probably too large to work within a lisp environment, developed over
the course of many, many years.
On the application above, yea the access_log parser are not as common
as you would think, the application basically provides web-stats for
your website, assuming the website is Apache2 or lighttpd. currently a
work in progress.
On 8 Oct 2005 19:27:25 -0700, "ramza2" <············@gmail.com>
wrote:
>"I was a J2EE (still am because of the job), but mostly Python for
>my opensource projects..."
>
>"Well, somehow you was not able to convince your boss to dump J2EE
>ans switch to Lisp. Why? Isn't Lisp better?... "
>
>Are you kidding me?
>
>To be fair. Lisp and/or Python could have been used, but the J2EE
>libraries already exist. To some degree we arent really be programmers
>but integrators. We call the right functions(methods) in the right
>place to make the application work.
>
>There are some things that could easily be done better in lisp, mainly
>so much data is stored in compiled java classes, when that data could
>be transferred to some script environment or something less static, but
>java works through accessors and mutators, that is life.
>
>But, the database connectivity, version control of data, transactions
>is probably too large to work within a lisp environment, developed over
>the course of many, many years.
>
>On the application above, yea the access_log parser are not as common
>as you would think, the application basically provides web-stats for
>your website, assuming the website is Apache2 or lighttpd. currently a
>work in progress.
OK, this what I am telling all the time: "better language" is broken
concept. Thare are languages that better for this, other languages
better for that. There are no languages "universally" better.
However, this statement results only in beling labeled as "troll".
Dominating concept on this grupp is that "Lisp is better". Point.
Universally.
I am afraid that now you will get the same label. Shouldn't we
create a club?...
A.L.
A.L. wrote:
> On 8 Oct 2005 19:27:25 -0700, "ramza2" <············@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"I was a J2EE (still am because of the job), but mostly Python for
>>my opensource projects..."
>>
>>"Well, somehow you was not able to convince your boss to dump J2EE
>>ans switch to Lisp. Why? Isn't Lisp better?... "
>>
>>Are you kidding me?
>>
>>To be fair. Lisp and/or Python could have been used, but the J2EE
>>libraries already exist. To some degree we arent really be programmers
>>but integrators. We call the right functions(methods) in the right
>>place to make the application work.
>>
>>There are some things that could easily be done better in lisp, mainly
>>so much data is stored in compiled java classes, when that data could
>>be transferred to some script environment or something less static, but
>>java works through accessors and mutators, that is life.
>>
>>But, the database connectivity, version control of data, transactions
>>is probably too large to work within a lisp environment, developed over
>>the course of many, many years.
>>
>>On the application above, yea the access_log parser are not as common
>>as you would think, the application basically provides web-stats for
>>your website, assuming the website is Apache2 or lighttpd. currently a
>>work in progress.
>
>
>
> OK, this what I am telling all the time: "better language" is broken
> concept. Thare are languages that better for this, other languages
> better for that. There are no languages "universally" better.
>
> However, this statement results only in beling labeled as "troll".
> Dominating concept on this grupp is that "Lisp is better". Point.
> Universally.
>
> I am afraid that now you will get the same label. Shouldn't we
> create a club?...
>
> A.L.
I am not really getting your point. All, I know is working with
different languages Lisp seems to support a lot of things that allow me
to extend the based language through macros which give me access to that
syntax tree and all kind of crazy stuff. There are closures there, and
lists by default.
I have heard some good things about haskell too, but with lisp's
compilation, I expect speed from implementations like SBCL, etc.
With that, there are some languages that are just better at doing common
things. They may not be popular, but I think that is the point of
creating things that are better. I like the direction that Erlang is
going too with a language to deal with parallel tasks, etc.
On java, java is really is just a basic procedural language. There is
nothing special about it, except it is truly object-oriented. And it
has a large set of libraries that are established by default which isnt
a bad thing at all, except it has not much to do with the language and
syntax. So if Sun were to put as much effort into Lisp libraries as it
did with Java, I am sure that Lisp would be a dominant player with those
4 million developers(Sun claims there are 4 million java developers).
I am open to anything that makes development easier. I don't care if it
is Lisp, Python, Haskell, BrainF**k, Erlang. But, I will say java
gets old after a while, nothing against the 10 years of work that has
been put into; but memorizing the entire API is more tedious than
creating your constructs for the non-system level things.
--
Ramza from Atlanta
http://www.newspiritcompany.com
A.L. <········@kapturek62.com> writes:
> ">I was a J2EE (still am because of the job), but mostly Python for
> my opensource projects..."
>
> Well, somehow you was not able to convince your boss to dump J2EE
> ans switch to Lisp. Why? Isn't Lisp better?...
>
> A.L.
>
For someone who has been writing code since the days of punch cards
and tape, I'm amazed you still think management decisions on what
platforms to use are based on technical merits! Anyone who has worked
in the commercial world knows that technical superiority/advantage is
are almost never a significant factor in decision making at the management
level - largely because many managers don't understand/grasp the
technical issues or have the technical background to appreciate them.
The only people I find who still think they can influence managers
with pure technically based arguments are either recent graduates or
old hand academics who have never participated in the commercial
sphere beyond a bit of technical consulting.
Tim
--
Tim Cross
The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is
to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you
really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!