Or more specifically, how do I do it with a free/open-source Lisp interpreter?
I recently got Practical Common Lisp and I thought it was time to properly
learn the language before saying I love it/hate it. :-)
So far, so good. I got SLIME up and running (Where was this when I was in
University!?) and ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL installed using CLISP that comes with
Cygwin. But I've been searching CLIKI and Google for info on using CLISP
with the Windows GUI and not finding what I need. The closest I've found
is someone using the GTK bindings and the Win32 port of GTK, which will do
if I have no choice, and a Tk binding which has the downside of being a Tk
binding. But I was hoping for something a little more "native".
So my question: What is available for a free/open-source Lisp system to
create GUIs under Windows? Preferably something that doesn't require
installing a whole other library (but again, if that's all there is, that's
OK).
Thank you in advance.
(And don't get me started on trying to get CLISP on Cygwin to work with
Cygwin/X-Windows >_<;)
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 06:13:43 GMT, <······@no-more-virii-please.direct.ca> wrote:
>
> So my question: What is available for a free/open-source Lisp system to
> create GUIs under Windows? Preferably something that doesn't require
> installing a whole other library (but again, if that's all there is, that's
> OK).
ECL, GCL
or spend $200 for Corman CL (includes source)
--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly fine.
Corman Lisp doesn't include any sensible GUI toolkit. I wrote extended
GUI toolkit for it. You can find it somewhere in Corman Lisp file
archives on the old Yahoo forum. I even once have shipped an app with
that GUI, but it still unfinished.
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:31:03 -0700, lisptracker wrote:
> Corman Lisp doesn't include any sensible GUI toolkit. I wrote extended
> GUI toolkit for it. You can find it somewhere in Corman Lisp file
> archives on the old Yahoo forum. I even once have shipped an app with
> that GUI, but it still unfinished.
So, you cannot write GUI apps with Corman right out of the box?
Steve
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:03:42 -0500, <·········@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:31:03 -0700, lisptracker wrote:
>
>> Corman Lisp doesn't include any sensible GUI toolkit. I wrote extended
>> GUI toolkit for it. You can find it somewhere in Corman Lisp file
>> archives on the old Yahoo forum. I even once have shipped an app with
>> that GUI, but it still unfinished.
>
> So, you cannot write GUI apps with Corman right out of the box?
You probably want to ask that question of Chris Double or Luke J
Crook. My impression is that it's not right out of the box, but it is
close.
--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly fine.
No. It's not even close. In box you find only rudimentary GUI example
based on bare WIN32 API. I provide my toolkit with window managers,
widgets and it is object-oriented and more abstract that direct WIN32
API interface. It would be cool to improve it farther.
Also, you can bind Corman Lisp to Java somehow, but what a joy to use
the monster in pair with compact lisp implementation ?
Travers Naran wrote:
> Or more specifically, how do I do it with a free/open-source Lisp
> interpreter?
Interpreter? The Savages of comp.lang.lisp will be with you shortly.
>
> I recently got Practical Common Lisp and I thought it was time to
> properly learn the language before saying I love it/hate it. :-)
>
> So far, so good. I got SLIME up and running (Where was this when I was
> in University!?) and ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL installed using CLISP that comes
> with Cygwin. But I've been searching CLIKI and Google for info on using
> CLISP with the Windows GUI and not finding what I need. The closest
> I've found is someone using the GTK bindings and the Win32 port of GTK,
> which will do if I have no choice, and a Tk binding which has the
> downside of being a Tk binding. But I was hoping for something a little
> more "native".
Nativity is a gray scale? Isn't Gtk native at bottom? But I see you do
not want to use a library...
>
> So my question: What is available for a free/open-source Lisp system to
> create GUIs under Windows? Preferably something that doesn't require
> installing a whole other library (but again, if that's all there is,
> that's OK).
You want win32 GUI without a library? For free? Take CLisp and write
bindings for win32 itself. I believe the CormanCL world has a bunch of
code like that since it comes without a GUI.
Note that if you are just pissing around, trial versions of AllegroCL
and Lispworks offer GUIs which are thin wrappers of native win32.
--
Kenny
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"If you plan to enter text which our system might consider to be
obscene, check here to certify that you are old enough to hear the
resulting output." -- Bell Labs text-to-speech interactive Web page
"Kenny Tilton" <·······@nyc.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
····························@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> ..
> You want win32 GUI without a library? For free? Take CLisp and write
> bindings for win32 itself. I believe the CormanCL world has a bunch of
> code like that since it comes without a GUI.
> ...
Basically I would agree, its not such a big deal. But I think CLisp is not
such a great candidate because you'll run in callback problems.
There is not multiprocessing/threading. Thus you have to write a message
dispatching loop which makes the REPL unaccessible.
I don't think this is a recommendable approach for a newbie.
Corman Lisp probably is a better suggestion.
Andreas
Andreas Thiele wrote:
> "Kenny Tilton" <·······@nyc.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> ····························@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>>..
>>You want win32 GUI without a library? For free? Take CLisp and write
>>bindings for win32 itself. I believe the CormanCL world has a bunch of
>>code like that since it comes without a GUI.
>>...
>
>
> Basically I would agree, its not such a big deal. But I think CLisp is not
> such a great candidate because you'll run in callback problems.
Callback problems? In the new CLisp FFI? What would they be?
--
Kenny
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"If you plan to enter text which our system might consider to be
obscene, check here to certify that you are old enough to hear the
resulting output." -- Bell Labs text-to-speech interactive Web page
"Kenny Tilton" <·······@nyc.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
····························@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> Andreas Thiele wrote:
> > "Kenny Tilton" <·······@nyc.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > ····························@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >
> >>..
> >>You want win32 GUI without a library? For free? Take CLisp and write
> >>bindings for win32 itself. I believe the CormanCL world has a bunch of
> >>code like that since it comes without a GUI.
> >>...
> >
> >
> > Basically I would agree, its not such a big deal. But I think CLisp is
not
> > such a great candidate because you'll run in callback problems.
>
> Callback problems? In the new CLisp FFI? What would they be?
> ...
Sorry, I don't know the new FFI.
I wrote a C dll which should process the windows message loop. I didn't want
to lock the REPL with clisp processing the windows messages. Thus my dll
created a new thread. But, you cannot call back from a different thread. I
think calling back from a different thread is also not possible in other
Lisps.
The program did its work but occasionally crashed, after processing some
hundred messages.
.
If the Lisp offers some multiprocessing, you don't have the problem. I went
over to LispWorks.
Andreas
Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>I believe the CormanCL world has a bunch of
>code like that since it comes without a GUI.
You mean "with a GUI"?
I remember the nice Corman Lisp "life" demos from my first day with it
-- I found them quite fast. I'm not a GUI guy, but AFAIK CormanLisp has
thin layers to CAPI.
> Andreas Thiele wrote:
> > Basically I would agree, its not such a big deal. But I think CLisp is not
> > such a great candidate because you'll run in callback problems.
> Callback problems? In the new CLisp FFI? What would they be?
I believe Andreas was inexact. There's no problem with callbacks.
What he meant is
>There is not multiprocessing/threading. Thus you have to write a message
>dispatching loop which makes the REPL unaccessible.
That has not prevented many people from writing GUI stuff with CLISP,
using a lot of different libraries (garnet, GINA, mcClim, ltk, cl-sdl ...)
I agree it can be inconvenient, but typically one of the first things
is to link in a REPL widget :-)
You know, the GUI situations remembers me the situation on the Amiga
15 years ago: many people did not know which GUI library to choose
because there were so many of them, with very different quality and
features. My observation is that a lot of Amiga history repeats on
Linux (and a lot repeats Lisa experience :).
Regards,
Jorg Hohle
Telekom/T-Systems Technology Center
Joerg Hoehle wrote:
> Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>
>>I believe the CormanCL world has a bunch of
>>code like that since it comes without a GUI.
>
> You mean "with a GUI"?
> I remember the nice Corman Lisp "life" demos from my first day with it
> -- I found them quite fast. I'm not a GUI guy, but AFAIK CormanLisp has
> thin layers to CAPI.
?? CAPI is a LispWorks package. the GUI Corman Lisp comes with is win32
via the C FFI. Not the end of the world, but other Lisps I have used
(MCL, ACL, LW) have decent Lispy wrappers of native OS GUIs. These
wrappers are thin in that the underlying native GUI is recognizable, but
they add value in the usual ways a Lisp package adds value to anything
it wraps.
kt
--
Kenny
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"If you plan to enter text which our system might consider to be
obscene, check here to certify that you are old enough to hear the
resulting output." -- Bell Labs text-to-speech interactive Web page
"Joerg Hoehle" <······@users.sourceforge.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
··················@users.sourceforge.net...
> ...
> I agree it can be inconvenient, but typically one of the first things
> is to link in a REPL widget :-)
> ...
Great!
I was too new to Lisp at that times to have this idea (and obviously I
didn't study enough how other people solved the problem).
Nowadays HTML is my GUI and I'm not concerned by this subject anymore.
Indeed, I tried to introduce minimal multiprocessing by calling back from a
different thread. This was a *very* bad idea :))
Andreas
Check out orkit:
http://www.newspiritcompany.com/retroevolution/widget_toolkit/widget.htm
"Travers Naran" <······@no-more-virii-please.direct.ca> escreveu na mensagem
························@edtnps84...
> Or more specifically, how do I do it with a free/open-source Lisp
> interpreter?
>
> I recently got Practical Common Lisp and I thought it was time to properly
> learn the language before saying I love it/hate it. :-)
>
> So far, so good. I got SLIME up and running (Where was this when I was in
> University!?) and ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL installed using CLISP that comes with
> Cygwin. But I've been searching CLIKI and Google for info on using CLISP
> with the Windows GUI and not finding what I need. The closest I've found
> is someone using the GTK bindings and the Win32 port of GTK, which will do
> if I have no choice, and a Tk binding which has the downside of being a Tk
> binding. But I was hoping for something a little more "native".
>
> So my question: What is available for a free/open-source Lisp system to
> create GUIs under Windows? Preferably something that doesn't require
> installing a whole other library (but again, if that's all there is,
> that's OK).
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> (And don't get me started on trying to get CLISP on Cygwin to work with
> Cygwin/X-Windows >_<;)
yiu wrote:
> Check out orkit:
> http://www.newspiritcompany.com/retroevolution/widget_toolkit/widget.htm
Cool. Do you happen to know the license? Did not see a mention on the site.
--
Kenny
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"If you plan to enter text which our system might consider to be
obscene, check here to certify that you are old enough to hear the
resulting output." -- Bell Labs text-to-speech interactive Web page
yiu wrote:
> Check out orkit:
> http://www.newspiritcompany.com/retroevolution/widget_toolkit/widget.htm
That is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'm looking for! Thanks muchly.
Travers Naran writes:
> Or more specifically, how do I do it with a free/open-source Lisp interpreter?
>
> I recently got Practical Common Lisp and I thought it was time to
> properly learn the language before saying I love it/hate it. :-)
>
> So far, so good. I got SLIME up and running (Where was this when I
> was in University!?) and ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL installed using CLISP that
> comes with Cygwin. But I've been searching CLIKI and Google for info
> on using CLISP with the Windows GUI and not finding what I need. The
> closest I've found is someone using the GTK bindings and the Win32
> port of GTK, which will do if I have no choice, and a Tk binding which
> has the downside of being a Tk binding. But I was hoping for
> something a little more "native".
>
> So my question: What is available for a free/open-source Lisp system
> to create GUIs under Windows? Preferably something that doesn't
> require installing a whole other library (but again, if that's all
> there is, that's OK).
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> (And don't get me started on trying to get CLISP on Cygwin to work
> with Cygwin/X-Windows >_<;)
>
Maybe you can try Orkit (untested) :
http://www.newspiritcompany.com/retroevolution/widget_toolkit/widget.htm
Travers Naran wrote:
> But I was hoping for something a little more "native".
if you already know the Win32 API, take a look at The Common Lisp Cookbook:
http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/win32.html
Should be easy to port it to free CL implementations on Windows, like CLISP
or GCL, if you don't have LispWorks.
--
Frank Bu�, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
Travers Naran <······@no-more-virii-please.direct.ca> wrote:
You could have a look at Foil (a Foreign Object Interface for Lisp)
http://foil.sourceforge.net/
and Dialogue
http://www.algo.be/cl/dialogue/examples.htm
Francis
>Or more specifically, how do I do it with a free/open-source Lisp interpreter?
>
>I recently got Practical Common Lisp and I thought it was time to properly
>learn the language before saying I love it/hate it. :-)
>
>So far, so good. I got SLIME up and running (Where was this when I was in
>University!?) and ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL installed using CLISP that comes with
>Cygwin. But I've been searching CLIKI and Google for info on using CLISP
>with the Windows GUI and not finding what I need. The closest I've found
>is someone using the GTK bindings and the Win32 port of GTK, which will do
>if I have no choice, and a Tk binding which has the downside of being a Tk
>binding. But I was hoping for something a little more "native".
>
>So my question: What is available for a free/open-source Lisp system to
>create GUIs under Windows? Preferably something that doesn't require
>installing a whole other library (but again, if that's all there is, that's
>OK).
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>(And don't get me started on trying to get CLISP on Cygwin to work with
>Cygwin/X-Windows >_<;)
--
Francis Leboutte
www.algo.be