Hello,
We are interested in programmers' experiences of programming languages
supported by managed runtimes (including but not limited to Java, C#, etc).
In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance limitations that
can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
We would be grateful to receive any accounts of such problems encountered.
If you think you can help, would you please complete the form located at
http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/sm244/GCForm/
Thank you for your assistance.
Richard Jones
Sebastien Marion
S.Marion wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are interested in programmers' experiences of programming languages
> supported by managed runtimes (including but not limited to Java, C#,
> etc). In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance limitations
> that can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
>
> We would be grateful to receive any accounts of such problems encountered.
> If you think you can help, would you please complete the form located at
> http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/sm244/GCForm/
>
> Thank you for your assistance.
>
> Richard Jones
> Sebastien Marion
I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
were Garbage Collected :-(
Happy computing, and don't forget to turn your Garbage Collector off.
alex goldman wrote:
> S.Marion wrote:
>
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>We are interested in programmers' experiences of programming languages
>>supported by managed runtimes (including but not limited to Java, C#,
>>etc). In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance limitations
>>that can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
>>
>>We would be grateful to receive any accounts of such problems encountered.
>>If you think you can help, would you please complete the form located at
>>http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/sm244/GCForm/
>>
>>Thank you for your assistance.
>>
>>Richard Jones
>>Sebastien Marion
>
>
> I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
> weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
> finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
> were Garbage Collected :-(
>
> Happy computing, and don't forget to turn your Garbage Collector off.
Well, that was your problem. If you did not save the intermediate
results anywhere, then that was a semantic problem with your code.
Cheers
--
Marco
Marco Antoniotti <·······@cs.nyu.edu> writes:
> alex goldman wrote:
> > I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent
> > over 2
> > weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
> > finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
> > were Garbage Collected :-(
> > Happy computing, and don't forget to turn your Garbage Collector off.
>
> Well, that was your problem. If you did not save the intermediate
> results anywhere, then that was a semantic problem with your code.
Actually I think his real problem was that he had garbage in his
inputs. By the GIGO rule, that gave him garbage in his outputs, which
got (quite properly) garbage-collected by the system rather than being
propagated into papers and surveys or otherwise doing harm to the
world.
--
Fred Gilham ······@csl.sri.com
A gold coin standard transfers monetary policy-making from central
bankers and government officials to the common man, who can walk into
a bank and demand payment for paper or digital currency in gold
coins. This is the ultimate form of democracy, and the Establishment
hates it. -- Gary North
Marco Antoniotti wrote:
>
>
> alex goldman wrote:
>> S.Marion wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>We are interested in programmers' experiences of programming languages
>>>supported by managed runtimes (including but not limited to Java, C#,
>>>etc). In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance
>>>limitations that can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
>>>
>>>We would be grateful to receive any accounts of such problems
>>>encountered. If you think you can help, would you please complete the
>>>form located at http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/sm244/GCForm/
>>>
>>>Thank you for your assistance.
>>>
>>>Richard Jones
>>>Sebastien Marion
>>
>>
>> I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
>> weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
>> finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
>> were Garbage Collected :-(
>>
>> Happy computing, and don't forget to turn your Garbage Collector off.
>
> Well, that was your problem. If you did not save the intermediate
> results anywhere, then that was a semantic problem with your code.
They got garbage-collected before I had a chance to save them.
LISP> (defvar results (long-calculations input-data))
;; 2 weeks later
LISP> (save-to-disk results "/home/ag/results.data")
Error: too late, the contents of the variable RESULTS have been
garbage-collected. Possible restarts:
(0) Abort
(1) Enter another variable
(2) Enter new value for variable RESULTS
(3) Listen to what Kaz says
alex goldman wrote:
> They got garbage-collected before I had a chance to save them.
>
> LISP> (defvar results (long-calculations input-data))
> ;; 2 weeks later
> LISP> (save-to-disk results "/home/ag/results.data")
>
> Error: too late, the contents of the variable RESULTS have been
> garbage-collected. Possible restarts:
>
> (0) Abort
> (1) Enter another variable
> (2) Enter new value for variable RESULTS
> (3) Listen to what Kaz says
Allow me to express my considerable skepticism at this story.
Paul
alex goldman wrote:
> Marco Antoniotti wrote:
>
>>>I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
>>>weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
>>>finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
>>>were Garbage Collected :-(
>>>
>>>Happy computing, and don't forget to turn your Garbage Collector off.
>>
>>Well, that was your problem. If you did not save the intermediate
>>results anywhere, then that was a semantic problem with your code.
>
>
> They got garbage-collected before I had a chance to save them.
>
> LISP> (defvar results (long-calculations input-data))
> ;; 2 weeks later
> LISP> (save-to-disk results "/home/ag/results.data")
>
> Error: too late, the contents of the variable RESULTS have been
> garbage-collected. Possible restarts:
>
> (0) Abort
> (1) Enter another variable
> (2) Enter new value for variable RESULTS
> (3) Listen to what Kaz says
Then either you are using a bogus implementation of Common Lisp, as it
clearly broke the semantics of the "assignment" and as the restart show,
or - and more likely - you didn't RTFM about DEFVAR behavior.
The fault is still yours.
Cheers
--
Marco
Marco Antoniotti wrote:
>
>
> alex goldman wrote:
>> Marco Antoniotti wrote:
>>
>>>>I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
>>>>weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
>>>>finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
>>>>were Garbage Collected :-(
>>>>
>>>>Happy computing, and don't forget to turn your Garbage Collector off.
>>>
>>>Well, that was your problem. If you did not save the intermediate
>>>results anywhere, then that was a semantic problem with your code.
>>
>>
>> They got garbage-collected before I had a chance to save them.
>>
>> LISP> (defvar results (long-calculations input-data))
>> ;; 2 weeks later
>> LISP> (save-to-disk results "/home/ag/results.data")
>>
>> Error: too late, the contents of the variable RESULTS have been
>> garbage-collected. Possible restarts:
>>
>> (0) Abort
>> (1) Enter another variable
>> (2) Enter new value for variable RESULTS
>> (3) Listen to what Kaz says
>
> Then either you are using a bogus implementation of Common Lisp, as it
> clearly broke the semantics of the "assignment" and as the restart show,
> or - and more likely - you didn't RTFM about DEFVAR behavior.
Jees, lighten up. Just for you, I even put in restart numero tres above.
Marco Antoniotti <·······@cs.nyu.edu> writes:
> alex goldman wrote:
> >
> > They got garbage-collected before I had a chance to save them.
> >
> > LISP> (defvar results (long-calculations input-data))
> > ;; 2 weeks later
> > LISP> (save-to-disk results "/home/ag/results.data")
> >
> > Error: too late, the contents of the variable RESULTS have been
> > garbage-collected. Possible restarts:
> >
> > (0) Abort
> > (1) Enter another variable
> > (2) Enter new value for variable RESULTS
> > (3) Listen to what Kaz says
>
> Then either you are using a bogus implementation of Common Lisp, as it
> clearly broke the semantics of the "assignment" and as the restart show,
> or - and more likely - you didn't RTFM about DEFVAR behavior.
Actually, I suspect that what is really bogus here is the purported
trace. I think this is just some sort of GC troll. Especially when one
considers restart (3) in the list above. That can't be a real message.
Not to mention that one would not expect to get an error message like
the one listed above.
I think someone is trying to yank our chain.
--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute
* alex goldman wrote:
> [...]
> I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
> weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
> finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
> were Garbage Collected :-(
>
I just started with PCL, but I didn't even dream of CL being so wise to
recognize that some result are just garbage...
> Happy computing, and don't forget to turn your Garbage Collector off.
alex goldman wrote:
>
>I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
>weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
>finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
>were Garbage Collected :-(
>
>
Meaning, that's why they took 2 weeks to calculate? Or meaning, they
were purged at the last moment because the garbage collector kicked in?
--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
"The pioneer is the one with the arrows in his back."
- anonymous entrepreneur
Thank's for that !
Would you please then be kind enough to fill in the form, so that we can
analyse it a bit deeper?
Regards,
MARION Sebastien
>> I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
>> weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
>> finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
>> were Garbage Collected :-(
>>
S.Marion wrote:
> Thank's for that !
>
> Would you please then be kind enough to fill in the form, so that we can
> analyse it a bit deeper?
>
> Regards,
>
> MARION Sebastien
>
>
> >> I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
> >> weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
> >> finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
> >> were Garbage Collected :-(
You failed the Garbage Collection Researcher Credentials Humor Test.
This has to do with knowing enough about a subject to tell whether
someone is joking about it or making serious assertions.
Also, it's thanks not thank's ...
... for playing.
Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> This has to do with knowing enough about a subject to tell whether
> someone is joking about it or making serious assertions.
Speaking of which, is there another newsgroup on this
planet where someone would suggest that Richard Jones
and Sebastien Marion don't know much about garbage
collection?
Will
On 2005-06-04 13:43:39 -0400, "William D Clinger"
<··········@verizon.net> said:
> Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> This has to do with knowing enough about a subject to tell whether
>> someone is joking about it or making serious assertions.
>
> Speaking of which, is there another newsgroup on this
> planet where someone would suggest that Richard Jones
> and Sebastien Marion don't know much about garbage
> collection?
Given Sebastien's expertise in garbage collection one can most likely
conclude that either:
a. Sebastien's somewhat ungrammatical reply requesting additional
information was itself tongue in cheek.
b. Sebastien's somewhat ungrammatical reply was an automated response.
c. Sebastien's sarcasm detection deficit is not domain specific but
most likely due to the fact that his native language is not english but
french.[1]
my money is on c.
I think we should cut Sebastien some slack - it's unfair to expect
non-native speakers to get sarcasm, especially in a context where one
is expecting academic or professional discourse.
Sebastian and Richard, I don't have any personal experience with
limitations imposed by gc, but I know that others have. Hopefully
they'll take the time to fill out your web form.
Au nom de c.l.l je fais des excuses tr�s sinc�res. Bonne chance avec
votre recherche.
[1] The first clue is the spelling of his name - in english it's
usually spelled "ian" not "ien." The second is that his home page links
to a website entirely in french that he did for his father's real
estate business outside of Lyon.
"Brandon J. Van Every" <·····················@mycompanyname.com> writes:
> alex goldman wrote:
>
>>
>>I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
>>weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
>>finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
>>were Garbage Collected :-(
>>
>>
> Meaning, that's why they took 2 weeks to calculate? Or meaning, they
> were purged at the last moment because the garbage collector kicked
> in?
[41]> (defparameter big-result (* 7 3 2))
BIG-RESULT
[42]> big-result
42
[43]> big-result
:garbage-collected
[44]>
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Litter box not here.
You must have moved it again.
I'll poop in the sink.
alex goldman schrieb:
> I had terrible experiences with Garbage Collection. I once spent over 2
> weeks doing numerical calculations on my workstation, and when they were
> finished, and I was about to print the results, it turned out that they
> were Garbage Collected :-(
*rofl*
Andr�
--
> Hello,
>
> We are interested in programmers' experiences of programming languages
> supported by managed runtimes (including but not limited to Java, C#, etc).
> In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance limitations that
> can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
We are interested in Western people's experiences with households
supported by managed utilities such as running water and electricity ..
Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>Hello,
>>
>>We are interested in programmers' experiences of programming languages
>>supported by managed runtimes (including but not limited to Java, C#, etc).
>>In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance limitations that
>>can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
>>
>>
>
>We are interested in Western people's experiences with households
>supported by managed utilities such as running water and electricity ..
>
>
>
There are some great stories from Seattle's early days, when they had
the sewage sluices elevated above the street, and the tides in the Puget
Sound took action upon them!
--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
When no one else sells courage, supply and demand take hold.
> In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance limitations
> that can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
Sorry, no such thing around comp.lang.lisp:-)
Ole
"S.Marion" <·····@kent.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are interested in programmers' experiences of programming languages
> supported by managed runtimes (including but not limited to Java, C#,
> etc).
> In particular, we are interested in bugs and performance limitations that
> can be ascribed to the garbage collector.
Performance: The garbage collector can only carry a certain amount without
hurting his back.
Accuracy: Sometimes objects are incorrectly identified as garbage (UPS
deliveries).
Reliability: I used to have a GC that never washed. He doubtless had plenty
of bugs.
Seriously though, it would be interesting to see a 'fair and balanced' study
(as opposed to flamewars) comparing GC-ascribed bugs / performance
limitations and manual-memory-management- bugs / performance limitations.
My (unscientific) opinion is that GC[1] (particularly for C) provides a
massive gain in programmer productivity for the price of a small performance
tradeoff, and this tradeoff can be minimised with some awareness of
GC-unfriendly algorithms.
My (newly-developed) opinion is that I have taken the red pill, and I'm
feeling groovy, baby.
[1]: www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/
Jamie
>
> We would be grateful to receive any accounts of such problems encountered.
> If you think you can help, would you please complete the form located at
> http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/sm244/GCForm/
>
> Thank you for your assistance.
>
> Richard Jones
> Sebastien Marion