OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl.
However, when I spend more and more time in CL, the symptom is getting
worst on my left forearm because of the extended use of the left shift
key (to reach '(' & ')')
(BTW, since you can use ' and qw// to delimit string in Perl, I can get
away by not using L-shift most of the time, but again in Lisp this is
not an option.)
This pains me to the point where I have to stop programming and
research on solutions tonight.
This is what I found - Keyboard Remapper
http://www.dev-labs.com/kr/keyboard.html
After installing this problem, I change my modified keyboard layout
like so:
http://photos23.flickr.com/27293563_26ba3e675e_o.jpg
and this is shifted layout:
http://photos21.flickr.com/27293564_af28393a24_o.jpg
Basically what I did is swap
1234567890 with ·@#$%^&*()
[] with {} ;; for C programming
and
' with "
I immediately tried it out and to my surprise I got used to it in less
than 5 minutes.
I found that after swapping the keys I no longer use C-c C-q to close
all the parens as typing the ) manually doesn't hurt at all.
Also I'm more inclined to type the doc string (:documentation "blah
blah") because " isn't hard to type now. So is * when typing global
variable *current-process*.
The only thing that I still confused myself is the single quote which
every so often I need to type (You'll, can't) etc in comments.
But other than that I can live without the shift key 90% of the time (I
occasionally type numbers using the shift key but if I can I prefer the
numpad instead)
One thing that bugs me though is that this program doesn't work with
X-Win32 so I can't use it with my x-session, and it'll crash SecureCRT
(my favorite ssh client). I works okay with most win32 applications
including putty (that's the only two I found not working). Too bad this
program is no longer maintained. (They never get to release it as
shareware)
I just want to share this. If you have RSI (or developing it) you might
want to try if this is gonna help.
There are other programs for win32 that can remap the caplock to ctrl
by just changing the registry. However I'm not aware of a solution that
can remap the shifted keycode by just hacking the registry (this
Keyboard Remapper runs a residual process to translate the keycode).
BTW, I know in x-windows there's a xmodmap. I only know how to remap
the caplocks key to ctrl. If you know how to remap the keys like I
described above, please share!
-- Mac
s/After installing this problem/After installing this program/
From: Marco Baringer
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <m2irz5x2n5.fsf@soma.local>
·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
> OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl.
> However, when I spend more and more time in CL, the symptom is getting
> worst on my left forearm because of the extended use of the left shift
> key (to reach '(' & ')')
if you use emacs this can be done for on all the platforms you use
emacs on. you won't get the effect outside of of emacs, but
that's just another reason to never leave emacs :)
(keyboard-translate ?\( ?\[)
(keyboard-translate ?\[ ?\()
(keyboard-translate ?\) ?\])
(keyboard-translate ?\] ?\))
(keyboard-translate ?\1 ?\!)
(keyboard-translate ?\! ?\1)
...
--
-Marco
Ring the bells that still can ring.
Forget the perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in.
-Leonard Cohen
·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl. However, when
> I spend more and more time in CL, the symptom is getting worst on my left
> forearm because of the extended use of the left shift key (to reach '(' &
> ')')
Since dvorak wouldn't help with parens, you should use pedals to bind
Shift, Control and stuff like that. This is not a joke. See for example
http://www.bilbo.com/bilbo.html. I also have the project to write a small
application to use my many MIDI foot controllers (for musical instruments) for
generating X Events, including keyboard ones. I don't suffer from RSI, but
this would increase the typing efficiency (especially under XEmacs ;-).
--
Didier Verna, ······@lrde.epita.fr, http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier
EPITA / LRDE, 14-16 rue Voltaire Tel.+33 (1) 44 08 01 85
94276 Le Kremlin-Bic�tre, France Fax.+33 (1) 53 14 59 22 ······@xemacs.org
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:12:59 +0200, Didier Verna wrote:
> ·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl. However, when
>> I spend more and more time in CL, the symptom is getting worst on my left
>> forearm because of the extended use of the left shift key (to reach '(' &
>> ')')
>
> Since dvorak wouldn't help with parens, you should use pedals to bind
> Shift, Control and stuff like that. This is not a joke. See for example
> http://www.bilbo.com/bilbo.html. I also have the project to write a small
> application to use my many MIDI foot controllers (for musical instruments) for
> generating X Events, including keyboard ones. I don't suffer from RSI, but
> this would increase the typing efficiency (especially under XEmacs ;-).
From their webpage:
STEP ON IT! Pedals: Order Information
This product is
D I S C O N T I N U E D
But Midi-Pedals might be a good solution.
Cheers Ralf Mattes
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <umzohet5i.fsf@agharta.de>
On 20 Jul 2005 02:02:25 -0700, ·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are other programs for win32 that can remap the caplock to
> ctrl by just changing the registry. However I'm not aware of a
> solution that can remap the shifted keycode by just hacking the
> registry (this Keyboard Remapper runs a residual process to
> translate the keycode).
Haven't tried it myself but what about this one?
<http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1560750,00.asp>
Cheers,
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl.
>However, when I spend more and more time in CL, the symptom is getting
>worst on my left forearm because of the extended use of the left shift
>key (to reach '(' & ')')
Amazing.. I never use the left shift key for (), actually, I don't
use the left shift key much at all...
But I guess, you'd then get RSI in the right arm ;-(
mkb.
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <uy881qxat.fsf@nhplace.com>
Matthias Buelow <···@incubus.de> writes:
> ·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl.
> >However, when I spend more and more time in CL, the symptom is getting
> >worst on my left forearm because of the extended use of the left shift
> >key (to reach '(' & ')')
Perhaps consider using Emacs and meta-() which inserts parens in balanced
pairs. Then you just have to hop forward/backward over them, but you have
half as many to insert using a shifted operation.
The other option that's even better is, again with Emacs re-definability,
swap [] and () so that you have parens for lowercase. The symbolics keyboard
offered () on lowercase and a lot of people liked it. (It also had colon on
a shift-insensitive key, which some people used.)
> Amazing.. I never use the left shift key for (), actually, I don't
> use the left shift key much at all...
Heh. I use the left shift key exclusively. Weird world, huh?
(I also just hold that left shift key when typing all-uppercase rather
than hit shift-lock because it doesn't seem to bother me.)
> But I guess, you'd then get RSI in the right arm ;-(
Btw, I have a personal theory that the people who get this problem,
or, at least, carpal tunnel problems, are primarily those who didn't
do enough sports as a kid. That is, I've noticed some people are
mostly immune to these effects and some people get them right away. I
think that if you do things with your wrist (which might be heavy
typing, but which can also include various "wrist sports") when you're
a kid, you work the tunnel into a larger shape while you're still
growing and it happens less. I type very fast for many, many hours a
day and seem to have no effect, and I attribute it to my childhood
sports: tetherball, bowling, competitive swimming, ping pong,
volleyball, horizontal bar, etc. My pet theory is that many computer
programmers start out as indoor folks who avoided sports and were
pretty introverted, and that people who were outdoorsy/sports-oriented
didn't get into computers as much. (I was the introverted part, but
my dad pushed me to do some sports on some bizarre theory that I'd get
a sports scholarship to college...) Like most things of this kind,
there are probably exceptions, but I've been informally asking people
who have RSI and carpal tunnel problems about their sports background
for years and so far have found no reason to think this corrolation
doesn't hold. I keep wishing someone would do a more scientific
study. Meanwhile I still recommend that parents who want their kids
to go into computers push them into these various sports I've enumerated
and anything else that would build arm/wrist strength, including early
learning to type at an early age while your bones are still growing/forming.
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <u8y01mnjz.fsf@nhplace.com>
Ingvar <······@hexapodia.net> writes:
> I'm not entirely sure, I was doing an awful lot of martial arts as I
> was growing up (kicking/punching, grappling, wresting, swords, rifles,
> all sotrs, really) and quite a few of those have lots of wrist moment
> and I certainly have RSI-similar things happening once in a while
> these days.
It could be that some of these work the wrists more than others. Using
it is not the same as working it. Of course, I'm being vague. But your
datapoint is noted.
> I attribute it more to bad keyboards, though, since my
> keyboard at home (an old IBM buckle=-spring keyboard) doesn't really
> cause me any problems.
I've used a LOT of keyboards in my time and very bad posture and I seem
immune on pretty much all of them.
> My keyboard at work does, though, but since I
> do more "plain text" and "change/check configurations" at work and
> more programming at home, it sort of balances out.
My theories are primarily about carpal tunnel, not RSI. Some people
blur these, so I tend to raise them in both forums. But I believe
there are in fact two phenomena, and the legit RSI thing is not caused
by what I said. I have sometimes gotten RSI myself when I've done
immensely repetitive things (e.g, when translating MACSYMA [~100,000
lines] from Maclisp/Zetalisp to Common Lisp, I spent a couple of DAYS
in query-replace changing / to \ which was usually but not always the
same operation and involved a lot of confirmation queries, and again
when producing the ANSI CL standard, which began [with Steele's
permission] from the CLTL sources and was slowly transformed into ANSI
CL--he'd made some decision to use @foo[...] (like the typesetting
language Scribe) rather than \foo{...} like normal TeX, but had made
it inconsistently and I spent many days (weeks, I think), using
complicated query-replace-like transformations to get it back into
normal TeX notation uniformly... both of those drove my hands nuts for
reasons I assume are RSI effects). But in my experience, and it
sounds like yours agrees, it's generally helped by just varying the
routine, stopping for breaks, etc. Works well if you have limited
work or a lot of flexibility about your ordering. Not so good for
poor people on assembly lines, etc.
- - - - -
[unrelated sig discussion follows]
> ((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) '(lambda (x) `(,x ',x)))
> Probably KMP
Probably not, actually. But thanks for thinking of me. Mike McMahon
did the original one with LET. Bob Kerns and I did one with
LAMBDA "in response" but explicitly avoided use of backquote since
McMahon had already played that game. I don't have it handy, but I'll
dredge that conversation up sometime out of my files perhaps for one
of the books I'm working on. It's pretty funny.
From: Wolfgang Mederle
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <m38y013zfn.fsf@taegu.mederle.de>
Kent M. Pitman wrote:
> I have sometimes gotten RSI myself when I've done immensely repetitive
> things (e.g, when translating MACSYMA [~100,000 lines] from
> Maclisp/Zetalisp to Common Lisp, I spent a couple of DAYS in
> query-replace changing / to \ which was usually but not always the
> same operation and involved a lot of confirmation queries, and again
> when producing the ANSI CL standard, which began [with Steele's
> permission] from the CLTL sources and was slowly transformed into ANSI
> CL--he'd made some decision to use @foo[...] (like the typesetting
> language Scribe) rather than \foo{...} like normal TeX, but had made
> it inconsistently and I spent many days (weeks, I think), using
> complicated query-replace-like transformations to get it back into
> normal TeX notation uniformly... both of those drove my hands nuts for
> reasons I assume are RSI effects). But in my experience, and it sounds
> like yours agrees, it's generally helped by just varying the routine,
> stopping for breaks, etc. Works well if you have limited work or a lot
> of flexibility about your ordering. Not so good for poor people on
> assembly lines, etc.
I can recommend the use of Carbon Emacs plus a Griffin Powermate for
these kinds of tasks (hitting the same key or key combinations over and
over again).
--
Wolfgang Mederle
<URL:http://mederle.de/>
<URL:http://homepage.mac.com/madearl/>
ICQ# 1435333
On 9176 day of my life ······@hexapodia.net wrote:
> --
> ((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) '(lambda (x) `(,x ',x)))
> Probably KMP
Some webpage said it was Sam Steingold. But the page may be wrong :)
--
Ivan Boldyrev
Assembly of a Japanese bicycle requires greatest peace of spirit.
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <u7jfjmbnv.fsf@nhplace.com>
Ivan Boldyrev <···············@cgitftp.uiggm.nsc.ru> writes:
> On 9176 day of my life ······@hexapodia.net wrote:
> > --
> > ((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) '(lambda (x) `(,x ',x)))
> > Probably KMP
>
> Some webpage said it was Sam Steingold. But the page may be wrong :)
Right. This particular rendition is Sam's. Mine was different.
We tracked down the origin of this offline, and Ingvar's going to
change his sig.
+ ·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com>:
| Basically what I did is swap
| 1234567890 with ·@#$%^&*()
| [] with {} ;; for C programming
| and
| ' with "
For a (much) more radical keyboard remapping approach,
see this message from Erik Naggum on 2002-10-26:
<················@naggum.no>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/f499cca6b478260f?hl=en
--
* Harald Hanche-Olsen <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/>
- Debating gives most of us much more psychological satisfaction
than thinking does: but it deprives us of whatever chance there is
of getting closer to the truth. -- C.P. Snow
Harald & Didier, that's interesting. But I have to limiited it to some
"portable" solutions as I do access other computers from time to time
(laptop from work, for example).
Edi, thanks for the link. pcmag wants me to pay ~ $6 before I try.
However, google is our friend. I downloaded it and tried it out. It's
like the other registry key map programs. It couldn't do what I
described.
Marco, that's the best solution in the moment, many thanks. Although if
I can find a system wide solution, that'll be ideal (either win32 or
x-windows).
I'll insert this to my .emacs and check into my svn repo so I can
update it on all the machines I have access to.
Thanks everyone for the interesting links and ideas. I'll see if my RSI
symptom improves as a result of this change.
(keyboard-translate ?\' ?\")
(keyboard-translate ?\" ?\')
(keyboard-translate ?\{ ?\[)
(keyboard-translate ?\[ ?\{)
(keyboard-translate ?\} ?\])
(keyboard-translate ?\] ?\})
(keyboard-translate ?\041 ?\061)
(keyboard-translate ?\061 ?\041)
(keyboard-translate ?\100 ?\062)
(keyboard-translate ?\062 ?\100)
(keyboard-translate ?\043 ?\063)
(keyboard-translate ?\063 ?\043)
(keyboard-translate ?\044 ?\064)
(keyboard-translate ?\064 ?\044)
(keyboard-translate ?\045 ?\065)
(keyboard-translate ?\065 ?\045)
(keyboard-translate ?\136 ?\066)
(keyboard-translate ?\066 ?\136)
(keyboard-translate ?\046 ?\067)
(keyboard-translate ?\067 ?\046)
(keyboard-translate ?\052 ?\070)
(keyboard-translate ?\070 ?\052)
(keyboard-translate ?\050 ?\071)
(keyboard-translate ?\071 ?\050)
(keyboard-translate ?\051 ?\060)
(keyboard-translate ?\060 ?\051)
-- Mac
BTW, probably a lot of you have already heard of this
http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/
I'd gladly pay $300 for it if it works as described.
It's expected to hit the market in 2006. Finger crossed.
I heard about the RSI story of TCL's inventor and I don't want to go
that route (use speech-to-text program for input exclusively).
-- Mac
mac wrote:
> BTW, probably a lot of you have already heard of this
>
> http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/
>
> I'd gladly pay $300 for it if it works as described.
> It's expected to hit the market in 2006. Finger crossed.
if you don't need the fancy LCD keys (you could just paint your layout on
the keys), then it should be possible for < $20, for example there is a
project for generating keycodes from customer hardware:
http://www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/picboard.htm
and a project, which scans keycodes:
http://www.electronic-engineering.ch/microchip/projects/keyboard/v2xx/keyboard_v2xx.html
Combining this gives you a small device, which you can plug between the
keyboard and the PC and which can be programmed from the PC for your custom
layout. I wonder if someone did something like this already, it is so
obvious.
I have some experience with PIC programming, see for example this simple
project: http://www.frank-buss.de/blinker/ (I've done far more complex
projects, but they belong to the companies for which I developed it), so
let me know, if this is useful for you and I can develop it at weekend and
publish it on my webpage (of course, you need someone who can program a PIC
and solder some parts, or I can sell you the prototype, if you want).
--
Frank Bu�, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
"mac" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>BTW, probably a lot of you have already heard of this
>
>http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/
>
>I'd gladly pay $300 for it if it works as described.
>It's expected to hit the market in 2006. Finger crossed.
Doesn't look very ergonomic on finger muscles etc to me. Too flat,
with not enough downward play and resistance.
I'd recomend a high quality keyboard with real springloaded switches
in the keys, not the rubber-mat stuff that is ubiquitous with nearly
all keyboards. Examples are certain models from Cherry and the old IBM
"steel-plate"-style keyboards (I don't know if IBM still ships them;
I've recently found on the net the company which made them for IBM and
they're still selling them but I forgot the URL).
And of course if you're an Emacs user, remap capslock to control, if
you're using a PC-style keyboard. Using the control in the lower left
corner is begging for cramps and strained tendons.
mkb.
Matthias Buelow <···@incubus.de> writes:
> "mac" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>BTW, probably a lot of you have already heard of this
>>
>>http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/
>>
>>I'd gladly pay $300 for it if it works as described.
>>It's expected to hit the market in 2006. Finger crossed.
>
> Doesn't look very ergonomic on finger muscles etc to me. Too flat,
> with not enough downward play and resistance.
> I'd recomend a high quality keyboard with real springloaded switches
> in the keys, not the rubber-mat stuff that is ubiquitous with nearly
> all keyboards. Examples are certain models from Cherry and the old IBM
> "steel-plate"-style keyboards (I don't know if IBM still ships them;
> I've recently found on the net the company which made them for IBM and
> they're still selling them but I forgot the URL).
> And of course if you're an Emacs user, remap capslock to control, if
> you're using a PC-style keyboard. Using the control in the lower left
> corner is begging for cramps and strained tendons.
UniComp owns the rights to make these keyboards (bought from
LexMark in the mid-90s). See http://www.pckeyboard.com. I have two of
their "Customizer" keyboards (with Windows keys, in Norwegian layout),
and they work just fine - the feel is not quite as good as my 1989
Model M, but it is possible that they will improve with age.
Further information at http://www.clickykeyboard.com and
http://www.dansdata.com.
--
Raymond Wiker
On 9176 day of my life ········@gmail.com wrote:
> BTW, probably a lot of you have already heard of this
>
> http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/
>
> I'd gladly pay $300 for it if it works as described.
> It's expected to hit the market in 2006. Finger crossed.
Touchtyping course is cheaper, isn't it? After that, you shouldn't
care about signs on your keyboard :)
--
Ivan Boldyrev
XML -- new language of ML family.
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <ud5pdahvn.fsf@agharta.de>
On 20 Jul 2005 03:25:34 -0700, "mac" <········@gmail.com> wrote:
> Edi, thanks for the link. pcmag wants me to pay ~ $6 before I try.
Yes, a horrendous amout of money...
> However, google is our friend. I downloaded it and tried it
> out. It's like the other registry key map programs. It couldn't do
> what I described.
I noticed that they were talking about two different versions of the
program and that Version 2 was supposed to be significantly different
from Version 1. Are you sure your, er, Google workaround[1] found the
right program /and/ the right version?
Cheers,
Edi.
[1] BTW, if you were able to obtain the very program I was talking
about this way then someone's obviously infringing their
copyright.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
> Are you sure your, er, Google workaround[1] found the
> right program /and/ the right version?
>From the 'help -> about' dialog, the version number and release date
match what they described in the article. So I think they are referring
to the UI, that is radically different from version 1 (I have no way to
tell).
>[1] BTW, if you were able to obtain the very program I was talking
> about this way then someone's obviously infringing their
> copyright.
I did not intend to "steal" it, just want to find out how it works.
Having to pay upfront before I know whether it solves my problem is a
bit silly...
BTW, it's the first result from a google search.
-- Mac
Stefan Ram wrote:
> Recently I had a strange keyboard hardware failure, which
> made the cursor-up key emit an additional scroll-lock key
> event. It took me some time to find a program that was able
> to disable the scroll-lock key ("Powerpro").
I would suggest to buy a new keyboard. On the other side, all my computer
equipment changed since the last some 10 years, only my old Microsoft
natural keyboard survived (the good old one, with the high quality keys and
the normal cursor key arrangement, not in "+" form), so perhaps I would use
such a program, too, if it would have such a failure :-)
--
Frank Bu�, ··@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de
From: Joe Marshall
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <ek9tt3wp.fsf@comcast.net>
·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
> OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl.
If anyone at all is interested, I have a keyboard dll that provides a
Dvorak layout with the parens remapped to non-shifted characters.
--
~jrm
Joe Marshall wrote:
> ·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl.
>
> If anyone at all is interested, I have a keyboard dll that provides a
> Dvorak layout with the parens remapped to non-shifted characters.
Dvorak is great. I have my caps-lock and ctrl swapped. Where do you
map the parens to?
From: Joe Marshall
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <k6injpyi.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>
"jonathon" <···········@bigfoot.com> writes:
> Joe Marshall wrote:
>> ·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > OK. I'm already prone to RSI when I am programing C and Perl.
>>
>> If anyone at all is interested, I have a keyboard dll that provides a
>> Dvorak layout with the parens remapped to non-shifted characters.
>
> Dvorak is great. I have my caps-lock and ctrl swapped. Where do you
> map the parens to?
Here is the layout:
~ ! @ # $ % ^ & * { } ? +
` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 / =
" < > P Y F G C R L [ ] |
' , . p y f g c r l ( ) \
A O E U I D H T N L S _
a o e u i d h t n l s -
: Q J K X B M W V Z
; q j k x b m w v z
The curly braces are above 9 and 0, squares are above the parens.
From: André Thieme
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <dbmknc$aio$1@ulric.tng.de>
········@gmail.com schrieb:
> OK. I'm already prone to RSI
You want to use the TouchStream LP:
http://www.fingerworks.com/
I had some problems with my right arm (it hurt) which came from too much
mouse usage. I got the TouchStream keyboard and after two weaks all
problems were gone.
You don't need force to press a key. Just a slight touch is enough.
I personally got the DVORAK version of the keyboard which is (for me)
much better than qwerty.
I simply lay down four fingers of the left hand in the row over the home
row and press N with my right hand for "(" and a S for ")". It also has
an emacs mode with many gestures plus you can extend it with your
gestures. Your options are saved on the keyboard. So you could use it at
home on your windows system and just plug it via usb into your linux box
at work, or into the mac of your friend and it will simply work.
Andr�
--
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <umzohhyc9.fsf@agharta.de>
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:57:49 +0200, Andr� Thieme <······························@justmail.de> wrote:
> You want to use the TouchStream LP:
> http://www.fingerworks.com/
From that website:
Important note!
FingerWorks has ceased operations as a business.
Cheers,
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
From: André Thieme
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <dbmn43$chv$1@ulric.tng.de>
Edi Weitz schrieb:
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:57:49 +0200, Andr� Thieme <······························@justmail.de> wrote:
>
>
>>You want to use the TouchStream LP:
>>http://www.fingerworks.com/
>
>
> From that website:
>
> Important note!
>
> FingerWorks has ceased operations as a business.
Oh, that's a sad thing *sigh*
Seems the time was not yet there for such a technology. But well, we
will see such keyboards again in ten years.
Andr�
--
From: Alex Schroeder
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <dbo0tl$m22$1@news.hispeed.ch>
Andr� Thieme schrieb:
> You want to use the TouchStream LP:
> http://www.fingerworks.com/
I have both a Kinesis ErgoElan and the TouchStream LP, and I don't like
the TouchStream LP at all. I keep losing my position, and the problem I
had got worse with the TouchStream. But then again I'm not much of a
mouse user, so if your main problem is using the mouse, then it might
help...
Alex.
Alex Schroeder <····@emacswiki.org> wrote:
>Andr� Thieme schrieb:
>> You want to use the TouchStream LP:
>> http://www.fingerworks.com/
>
>I have both a Kinesis ErgoElan and the TouchStream LP, and I don't like
>the TouchStream LP at all. I keep losing my position, and the problem I
>had got worse with the TouchStream. But then again I'm not much of a
>mouse user, so if your main problem is using the mouse, then it might
>help...
I have a Kinesis Contoured and use a French Dvorak layout (own
design).
Some of you could be interrested in the links in one of my pages about
ergonomic keyboards I have found interresting:
http://www.algo.be/ergo/claviers.html
It seems many have complained about the TouchStream in the same way.
Here is what someone have written to me:
"The problem on TouchStream is the lack of tactile positioning. It was
only after trying TouchStream for approx. 6 weeks that I realized how
much a touch typist actually relies on touch. In other words, you
automatically center your finger tips according to the feel of the
keycaps. As a typist is typing he is continually correcting his hand
positioning subconsciously. As long as the typing process continues,
each new key hit contributes tactile feedback allowing the hand to
re-home itself. If you take away the central dips and - last not least
- the edges of the keys, this re-homing mechanism fails completely.
The typist's hands will slowly but surely wander away from the optimal
position. After a certain time each hand is in some way off center and
typos start cropping up."
Francis
>
>Alex.
Alex Schroeder <····@emacswiki.org> wrote:
> >Andr� Thieme schrieb:
> >> You want to use the TouchStream LP:
> >> http://www.fingerworks.com/
> >
> >I have both a Kinesis ErgoElan and the TouchStream LP, and I don't like
> >the TouchStream LP at all. I keep losing my position, and the problem I
> >had got worse with the TouchStream. But then again I'm not much of a
> >mouse user, so if your main problem is using the mouse, then it might
> >help...
>
> I have a Kinesis Contoured and use a French Dvorak layout (own
> design).
> Some of you could be interrested in the links in one of my pages about
> ergonomic keyboards I have found interresting:
> http://www.algo.be/ergo/claviers.html
>
>
> It seems many have complained about the TouchStream in the same way.
> Here is what someone have written to me:
>
> "The problem on TouchStream is the lack of tactile positioning. It was
> only after trying TouchStream for approx. 6 weeks that I realized how
> much a touch typist actually relies on touch. In other words, you
> automatically center your finger tips according to the feel of the
> keycaps. As a typist is typing he is continually correcting his hand
> positioning subconsciously. As long as the typing process continues,
> each new key hit contributes tactile feedback allowing the hand to
> re-home itself. If you take away the central dips and - last not least
> - the edges of the keys, this re-homing mechanism fails completely.
> The typist's hands will slowly but surely wander away from the optimal
> position. After a certain time each hand is in some way off center and
> typos start cropping up."
For what it's worth, I have been using a TouchStream LP for almost a
year now. It took me about two months to get up to reasonable typing
speed.
The key thing to learn when using a TouchStream is to frequently rest
your hands on the surface. The keyboard will not produce any keystrokes
when you rest all five fingers on it. Placing your hands on the surface
allows you to reposition your fingers so that they find the "home" dots
(there are five of them on each half of the keyboard). It seems that
the person quoted above has not learned this trick and indeed without it
the TouchStream will be rather difficult to use efficiently.
As for my experience, I'm extremely happy with my TouchStream and I
can't see myself going back to a mechanical keyboard.
Unfortunately, all of this is rather moot as FingerWorks has ceased
business operations. Rumor has it that they've been bought by another
company, mostly for patents and intellectual property.
If you can't, or don't want to get a TouchStream, there is another
solution that can get you a long way towards reducing RSI problems:
1. By a Microsoft natural keyboard. It's cheap, and it will
immediately help because you wrist positioning will be much better.
2. Redefine the additional modifier keys to do something useful. I
redefined the "Windows" keys to produce "super" and the "menu" key
to produce "hyper". That's useful when you're running X11, I'm not
sure about Windows.
3. If you're using Emacs, change your key assignments so that they use
the "super" and the "hyper" modifiers. There are many key
combinations used in Emacs that are simply terrible for RSI
problems: C-M-x is a good example. I have it redefined to S-x and I
use the right "Windows" key for this.
4. Again, for Emacs users: complain loudly when the software is broken
and requires you to type too many keystrokes. Good examples are
programs that do not clean windows up after themselves, so that you
have to type "C-x o C-x 1" to get your screen back. Another example
is buffers that pop up and that cannot be killed using "q" and
require you to press "C-x k". Too many developers assume that this
is not a problem.
--J.
From: Marco Baringer
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <m24q9wz7g4.fsf@soma.local>
Jan Rychter <···@rychter.com> writes:
> 4. Again, for Emacs users: complain loudly when the software is broken
> and requires you to type too many keystrokes. Good examples are
> programs that do not clean windows up after themselves, so that you
> have to type "C-x o C-x 1" to get your screen back. Another example
i'm all for complaining loudly, but C-x o C-x 1 is better expresed as C-x 0
--
-Marco
Ring the bells that still can ring.
Forget the perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in.
-Leonard Cohen
Other software:
Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator (MSKLC) - free
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx
Keyboard Layout Manager (Windows, better than the one of MS).
Not free but a layout can be freely distributed
http://www.klm.freeservers.com/
Francis
···@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
> (Supersedes-posting replacing keyboard images.)
>
>·········@gmail.com" <········@gmail.com> writes:
>>After installing this problem, I change my modified keyboard layout
>>like so:
>>http://photos23.flickr.com/27293563_26ba3e675e_o.jpg
>
> Reminds me of:
>
>http://oldcomputers.net/pics/pet2001-keyboard.jpg
>http://www.commodore.ca/history/company/PET_Brochure/2001_keyboard.jpg
>
> That was the keyboard I used for typing my first LISP
> programs, which were written in HG-Lisp.
>
> Parentheses, brackets and angle brackets all could be
> entered without using a modificator key.
>
> Another Windows-9x software relevant for this is:
>
>http://solair.eunet.yu/~janko/engdload.htm
>
> I also enjoy the special-character and macro capabilities of
> Allchars for Windows:
>
>http://allchars.zwolnet.com/
>
>>There are other programs for win32 that can remap the caplock
>>to ctrl by just changing the registry. However I'm not aware of
>>a solution that can remap the shifted keycode by just hacking
>>the registry (this Keyboard Remapper runs a residual process to
>>translate the keycode).
>
> Recently I had a strange keyboard hardware failure, which
> made the cursor-up key emit an additional scroll-lock key
> event. It took me some time to find a program that was able
> to disable the scroll-lock key ("Powerpro").
>
--
Francis Leboutte
www.algo.be
Well, I hate to say this but the best solution around the problem I've
found is to learn to work smarter rather than develop hacks around
keyboard usage. Invest in a quality whiteboard and eraser, and do as
much design as you can before you reach for the keyboard.
--
Kirk Job-Sluder
"The square-jawed homunculi of Tommy Hilfinger ads make every day an
existential holocaust." --Scary Go Round
From: Joe Marshall
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <vf2wcozk.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>
Kirk Job Sluder <····@jobsluder.net> writes:
> Well, I hate to say this but the best solution around the problem I've
> found is to learn to work smarter rather than develop hacks around
> keyboard usage. Invest in a quality whiteboard and eraser, and do as
> much design as you can before you reach for the keyboard.
Whiteboards that can execute lisp code are *expensive*.
Joe Marshall <···@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
> Kirk Job Sluder <····@jobsluder.net> writes:
>
>> Well, I hate to say this but the best solution around the problem I've
>> found is to learn to work smarter rather than develop hacks around
>> keyboard usage. Invest in a quality whiteboard and eraser, and do as
>> much design as you can before you reach for the keyboard.
>
> Whiteboards that can execute lisp code are *expensive*.
about $6000 for a 3M Digital WallDisplay 9000PD DLP Projector
+ about $500 for a PC + linux + lisp
about $6500 for a lisp enabled white board:
you write (+ 1 2) and it projects ==> 3.
http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=143648&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Shopping%20Comp-_-Datafeed-_-Office%20Supplies
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Nobody can fix the economy. Nobody can be trusted with their finger
on the button. Nobody's perfect. VOTE FOR NOBODY.
From: Peter Seibel
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <m2r7dkb3u9.fsf@gigamonkeys.com>
Pascal Bourguignon <···@informatimago.com> writes:
> Joe Marshall <···@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
>
>> Kirk Job Sluder <····@jobsluder.net> writes:
>>
>>> Well, I hate to say this but the best solution around the problem I've
>>> found is to learn to work smarter rather than develop hacks around
>>> keyboard usage. Invest in a quality whiteboard and eraser, and do as
>>> much design as you can before you reach for the keyboard.
>>
>> Whiteboards that can execute lisp code are *expensive*.
>
> about $6000 for a 3M Digital WallDisplay 9000PD DLP Projector
> + about $500 for a PC + linux + lisp
>
> about $6500 for a lisp enabled white board:
> you write (+ 1 2) and it projects ==> 3.
>
> http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=143648&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Shopping%20Comp-_-Datafeed-_-Office%20Supplies
That thing doesn't seem to handle input--it's a whiteboard you can
write on but how do you propose to get (+ 1 2) to your Lisp to be
evaluated?
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel * ·····@gigamonkeys.com
Gigamonkeys Consulting * http://www.gigamonkeys.com/
Practical Common Lisp * http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/
Peter Seibel <·····@gigamonkeys.com> writes:
> Pascal Bourguignon <···@informatimago.com> writes:
>
>> Joe Marshall <···@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
>>
>>> Kirk Job Sluder <····@jobsluder.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Well, I hate to say this but the best solution around the problem I've
>>>> found is to learn to work smarter rather than develop hacks around
>>>> keyboard usage. Invest in a quality whiteboard and eraser, and do as
>>>> much design as you can before you reach for the keyboard.
>>>
>>> Whiteboards that can execute lisp code are *expensive*.
>>
>> about $6000 for a 3M Digital WallDisplay 9000PD DLP Projector
>> + about $500 for a PC + linux + lisp
>>
>> about $6500 for a lisp enabled white board:
>> you write (+ 1 2) and it projects ==> 3.
>>
>> http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=143648&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Shopping%20Comp-_-Datafeed-_-Office%20Supplies
>
> That thing doesn't seem to handle input--it's a whiteboard you can
> write on but how do you propose to get (+ 1 2) to your Lisp to be
> evaluated?
Oops, you seem to be right, it's the 9200iw which handles input.
(There's something denoted as "mouse emulation on the 9000pd too, but
it's not clear if that can be used). Unfortunately, Froogle doesn't
find the 9200iw anywhere, and the 3M web site doesn't list any quote.
Now, summer is not over, with a low end $300 PC, a free lisp, a $50
web cam and a $700 retroprojector any student could write a little OCR
module to do the same on a small budget. You don't need to digitize
the drawing, when you can read it thru a webcam ;-)
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Wanna go outside.
Oh, no! Help! I got outside!
Let me back inside!
Am 27.07.2005 16:17 Uhr schrieb "Joe Marshall" unter <···@ccs.neu.edu> in
············@ccs.neu.edu:
> Kirk Job Sluder <····@jobsluder.net> writes:
>
>> Well, I hate to say this but the best solution around the problem I've
>> found is to learn to work smarter rather than develop hacks around
>> keyboard usage. Invest in a quality whiteboard and eraser, and do as
>> much design as you can before you reach for the keyboard.
>
> Whiteboards that can execute lisp code are *expensive*.
Like here:
http://www2.parc.com/istl/members/stefik/colab.htm
Joe Marshall <···@ccs.neu.edu> writes:
> Kirk Job Sluder <····@jobsluder.net> writes:
>
> > Well, I hate to say this but the best solution around the problem I've
> > found is to learn to work smarter rather than develop hacks around
> > keyboard usage. Invest in a quality whiteboard and eraser, and do as
> > much design as you can before you reach for the keyboard.
>
> Whiteboards that can execute lisp code are *expensive*.
But brainpower is cheap. In terms of managing my RSI, I've found that
investing some time doing work longhand on a whiteboard or in a notebook
saves me lots of time and characters typing. Granted, this is a
departure from what is frequently claimed as the "lisp way" of designing
programs from the inside out.
--
Kirk Job-Sluder
"The square-jawed homunculi of Tommy Hilfinger ads make every day an
existential holocaust." --Scary Go Round
From: David Golden
Subject: Re: Lisp programming and RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury)
Date:
Message-ID: <cm4Le.3798$R5.674@news.indigo.ie>
Joe Marshall wrote:
> Whiteboards that can execute lisp code are *expensive*.
Hm. If it's only yourself who needs to be "at the whiteboard", you could
instead get what I have, a Wacom Cintiq - a graphics tablet combined
with display. Actually, I still type lisp code (I got the tablet for
graphics stuff) but in principle I could use handwriting recognition
with it to jot down and execute lisp.
Or just get an ordinary graphics tablet, it's a lot cheaper (but I
happen to like the way the lines appear right under the pen with the
cintiq)