I bought PCL and that got me started. Now I'm looking to learn more
in-depth examples of how Lisp can be used.
I'm considering ACL (by Graham), OOPinCL (the CLOS) and Norvig, but I'm
open to suggestions.
I feel like I can write my simple apps in Lisp, but that there is a lot
I am missing about this language.
>I bought PCL and that got me started. Now I'm looking to learn more
>in-depth examples of how Lisp can be used.
>
>I'm considering ACL (by Graham), OOPinCL (the CLOS) and Norvig, but I'm
>open to suggestions.
>
>I feel like I can write my simple apps in Lisp, but that there is a lot
>I am missing about this language.
My vote is Norvig. It won't teach you anything new about Lisp, but it
has a lot to teach about programming strategy and artificial
intelligence (with all the examples being in Lisp). I am enjoying it a
lot.
I like ACL. I read ACL and PCL together, switching back and forth. They
cover basically the same stuff at basically the same level. If you
finished PCL already, ACL doesn't have much to offer you anymore.
I haven't tried OOPinCL, but I tend to make it a low priority because I
consider OOP itself to be low priority. I learned C++ and OOP
simultaneously, and it is the first way that I learned how to organize
a program. Despite that, I only rarely find a use for inheritance
outside of classroom examples that are designed to show how important
it is. Of course, if you find yourself using all the OOP stuff that PCL
showed you (and wishing you had a few new tricks along the same lines)
then you should completely ignore my advice ^^
On 12 Jul 2005 19:24:35 -0700, <············@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm considering ACL (by Graham), OOPinCL (the CLOS) and Norvig, but I'm
I say the only book to consider instead of Norvig would be Keene,
depending on how easy CLOS works for you.
--
LOOP :: a Domain Specific Language.
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Need advice on next Lisp book to buy
Date:
Message-ID: <ufyujp3u0.fsf@agharta.de>
On 12 Jul 2005 19:24:35 -0700, "Eric Lavigne" <············@gmail.com> wrote:
> My vote is Norvig. It won't teach you anything new about Lisp, but
> it has a lot to teach about programming strategy and artificial
> intelligence (with all the examples being in Lisp). I am enjoying it
> a lot.
I'd also recommend the Norvig book but I wouldn't say it doesn't teach
you anything new about Lisp. Maybe you won't read about language
constructs Peter hasn't covered in his book but you'll learn a lot
about nicely structured and idiomatic CL code or about optimization,
for example. This book is simply great and IMHO should be required
reading for every programmer, not only Lisp hackers.
Cheers,
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
"Eric Lavigne" writes:
> I learned C++ and OOP
> simultaneously
Do you mean you learned OOP in a C++ way? If you do, reading
Keene can be enlightenment on how OOP can be powerfull.
BTW, as a newbie, I recommend Keene to people interrested in
OOP (CLOS, but also OOP in general). It's very short to read, an
it's a way of thinking OOP I never seen before.
--drkm
drkm <······@fgeorges.org> writes:
> BTW, as a newbie, I recommend Keene to people interrested in
> OOP (CLOS, but also OOP in general). It's very short to read, an
> it's a way of thinking OOP I never seen before.
Can you be more specific as to who this "Keene" person is, and which
book you are referring to? Not everyone may understand the reference.
A quick Google search brings up _A Programmers Guide to the Common Lisp
Object System_ by Sonya Keene. Is this what you are referring to?
--
David Magda <dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca>
Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under
the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well
under the new. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, _The Prince_, Chapter VI
>> BTW, as a newbie, I recommend Keene to people interrested in
>> OOP (CLOS, but also OOP in general). It's very short to read, an
>> it's a way of thinking OOP I never seen before.
>Can you be more specific as to who this "Keene" person is, and which
>book you are referring to? Not everyone may understand the reference.
>A quick Google search brings up _A Programmers Guide to the Common Lisp
>Object System_ by Sonya Keene. Is this what you are referring to?
There are only a few books that you will hear about over and over in
this group. We tend to abbreviate them by acronym or by saying the
author's last name:
PCL
--> Practical Common Lisp
by Peter Seibel
ACL
--> Ansi Common Lisp
by Paul Graham
On Lisp
--> On Lisp: Advanced Techniques for Common Lisp
by Paul Graham
PAIP or Norvig
--> Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies
in Common Lisp
by Peter Norvig
Keene or OOPinCL
--> Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's
Guide to CLOS
by Sonya E. Keene
CLtL1
--> Common LISP : The Language (1st ed)
by Guy Steele
CLtL2 or Steele
--> Common LISP : The Language (2nd ed)
by Guy Steele
The last two (by Steele) are reference books and are a bit outdated.
The Common Lisp Hyperspec is available online and tends to be more
useful. I can recommend all of the other books in this list (with the
possible exception of Keene, since I haven't read it yet myself). My
favorite so far is Norvig. PCL and On Lisp are available online at
gigamonkeys.com and paulgraham.com
Eric Lavigne wrote:
PCL and On Lisp are available online at
> gigamonkeys.com and paulgraham.com
CLtL2 is also available online at :
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/cltl2.html
This is also "Converting CLtL2 to ANSI CL" at :
http://bc.tech.coop/cltl2-ansi.htm
Which "describes how to alter (mark up or edit) your personal copy of
CLTL2 (Common Lisp: The Language, Second Edition by Guy Steele) to note
new information from the ANSI Common Lisp standard."
--
Drew Crampsie
drewc at tech dot coop
"Never mind the bollocks -- here's the sexp's tools."
-- Karl A. Krueger on comp.lang.lisp
David Magda writes:
> A quick Google search brings up _A Programmers Guide to the Common Lisp
> Object System_ by Sonya Keene. Is this what you are referring to?
Yes. More exactly "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp
-- A Programmer's Guide to CLOS". It's what jonathon means by
"OOPinCL" (I guess).
Sonja E. Keene was one of the authors of the CLOS part of the
ANSI CL standard.
--drkm
jonathon wrote:
> I bought PCL and that got me started. Now I'm looking to learn more
> in-depth examples of how Lisp can be used.
>
> I'm considering ACL (by Graham), OOPinCL (the CLOS) and Norvig, but I'm
> open to suggestions.
>
> I feel like I can write my simple apps in Lisp, but that there is a lot
> I am missing about this language.
If you do not feel that you understand what makes Lisp so great, I would
suggest reading Graham's On Lisp. You can download it from his website
at http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html. For me, that was the
eye-opening book for the power of Lisp.
-- MJF
"jonathon" <···········@bigfoot.com> writes:
> I'm considering ACL (by Graham), OOPinCL (the CLOS) and Norvig, but I'm
> open to suggestions.
I suggest Norvig. If you consider OOPinCL, be sure to do some
research before you buy it: some like it, but it was a waste of money
for me.
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools:
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
jonathon wrote:
> I bought PCL and that got me started. Now I'm looking to learn more
> in-depth examples of how Lisp can be used.
>
> I'm considering ACL (by Graham), OOPinCL (the CLOS) and Norvig, but I'm
> open to suggestions.
I suggest Norvig, "On Lisp" by Graham, and "The Art of the Metaobject
Protocol" by Kiczales et al.
Pascal
--
2nd European Lisp and Scheme Workshop
July 26 - Glasgow, Scotland - co-located with ECOOP 2005
http://lisp-ecoop05.bknr.net/