Hi,
it might very well be interesting for you to read "The Road To Lisp" of a
lot of people on http://alu.cliki.net/The%20Road%20to%20Lisp%20Survey
There, a lot of individuals kind of explain why they chose Lisp in the end.
Maybe it can help you with your choice ;-)
Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards,
Arie van Wingerden
"Lisp is a language for doing what you've been told is impossible"
--- Kent Pitman
<·······@runbox.com> schreef in bericht
·····························@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've refactored my question in an attempt to better focus the
> responses. Specifically, I've made it a first person question to take
> out some of the team and mentor issues and added some more detail about
> project(s), etc:
>
> I'm trying to decide between learning Lisp and Smalltalk.
>
> I'm primarily interested in insights from people who have worked with
> both.
>
> I'm not a programmer, but wish to become one.
>
> I will learn only one of the languages (at this point in time.)
> Philosophically, I'm not interested in becoming a 'language collector,'
> a computer scientist, or developing a 'hobby' - but I am VERY
> interested in getting real work done by writing my own applications.
> Ideally, I therefore want the one language I choose to learn to be able
> to handle anything I intend to do now or in the future.
>
> Since I'm focused on real-world productivity, if I can get 90% of the
> benefit of something with only 50% of the complexity, and still achieve
> my goals, then that is a GOOD tradeoff for me.
>
> Someone (Avi?) once wrote that Lisp is multi-paradigm while Smalltalk
> is not, but that since the one paradigm Smalltalk uses is so powerful,
> you can get almost all of the benefits without all the attendant
> complexity. That appeals to me. On the other hand, the power of Lisp
> is seductive.
>
> I do not have a full understanding of the benefits and downsides of
> multi-methods, encapsulation, call-cc, etc. (To reiterate: I'm not
> a programmer.) I have a very basic understanding of what they all
> mean, but not a practical understanding that would keep me from
> shooting my own feet off with unnecessary complexity or creating
> debugging nightmares.
>
> I realize that this stuff gets into language holy war debate territory
> over language design, but I'm trying to understand what I'm getting
> myself into with Lisp and Smalltalk - and which is best suited for my
> specific goals. I realize that more powerful and flexible features
> also tend to have greater costs if you misuse them (like weapons),
> but...?
>
> I guess I'm operating under the assumption that Smalltalk is better
> for modeling standard business processes (all objects, all the time),
> while Lisp is better for the more computationally/algorithmically
> intense stuff like NLP.
>
> So, given the strengths of each, which is the better choice for someone
> who wants to be able to accomplish the tasks stated below with the
> shortest learning curve and least complexity? Which is going to offer
> the most productivity for someone that is programming mainly, say,
> accounting systems, but with some NLP/AI stuff thrown in every once in
> awhile?
>
> I'm interested in the idea (from Andreas and Wade) of creating a DSL
> using Lisp or Smalltalk that would allow me to farm work out to my team
> of business analysts. But I'm not sure if that is practical for this
> situation?
>
> If I'm trying to look on the bright side, I can note (as Espen does),
> that my systems analysts are not biased or coming in with preconceived
> ideas about language syntax, etc. This makes me wonder which is a
> better first language for them (and myself)...Smalltalk because it is
> simpler, or Lisp because I don't want to 'hardwire their brains'
> with doing everything one certain way...?
>
·······@runbox.com wrote:
> Wow...coincidence. I was actually browsing TRTL while you posted that
> suggestion!
> I wish TRTL was more easily searched, though...
try the new location : http://lisp.tech.coop/The%20Road%20to%20Lisp%20Survey
and if it's not searchable enough, tell me why and how i can fix it.
drewc
>
> Thank you.
>
> - Sergei
>