I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
will help sales more (by expanding the market) than it will hurt them
(by letting people read it online who would otherwise have bought a
copy). I don't know if that's true but it's what I believe. At any
rate, I thought it might help make the case if I can show that folks
have already bought it since any purchases to date are almost
certainly due to it being up on the web or secondary word-of-mouth as
a result of it being on the web.
So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
(to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information except
possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me they
bought the book") to Apress.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, check out:
<http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/>
and feel free to follow any of the links there to your favorite
on-line book seller and pre-order a copy. Then send me an email about
it. ;-)
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@javamonkey.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:32:24 +0000, Peter Seibel wrote:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form.
I haven't got my copy yet - I'm going to order it when I get back to the
US next week. I have pointed several people to the website and most of
them have made book-buying noises.
Cheers,
Bill.
Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> wrote:
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
> let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information except
> possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me they
> bought the book") to Apress.
I haven't yet pre-ordered the book, but I'm most definitely going to.
This may be a stupid question, but is it OK to pre-order from
Amazon.co.uk? I live in an EU country and I'd like to make orders
from another EU country.
Sincerely,
Matti J. K�rki
Matti J Karki <·······@cs.helsinki.fi> writes:
> Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> wrote:
>> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to
>> me (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an
>> email and let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that
>> information except possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people
>> have told me they bought the book") to Apress.
>
> I haven't yet pre-ordered the book, but I'm most definitely going
> to.
>
> This may be a stupid question, but is it OK to pre-order from
> Amazon.co.uk? I live in an EU country and I'd like to make orders
> from another EU country.
Fine by me.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@javamonkey.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> writes:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
[...]
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
> let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information except
> possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me they
> bought the book") to Apress.
You are welcome to forward them these links to a couple of my blog
entries:
Why I preordered the upcoming Apress Lisp books
http://www.paoloamoroso.it/log/040823.html
Clarification on Apress vs O'Reilly
http://www.paoloamoroso.it/log/040824.html
And maybe also this:
Apress: still interested in publishing Lisp books?
http://www.paoloamoroso.it/log/041118.html
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (see also http://clrfi.alu.org):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
"Peter Seibel" <·····@javamonkey.com> wrote in message
···················@javamonkey.com...
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
> will help sales more (by expanding the market) than it will hurt them
> (by letting people read it online who would otherwise have bought a
> copy). I don't know if that's true but it's what I believe. At any
> rate, I thought it might help make the case if I can show that folks
> have already bought it since any purchases to date are almost
> certainly due to it being up on the web or secondary word-of-mouth as
> a result of it being on the web.
I haven't ordered it, I've only barely looked at it on the web, and I'm
holding out for it to show up in my local B & N (but I'm one of those
grognards who still buys all of my books through brick and mortar, so...no
need to listen to me).
However, regarding keeping the book online, head over to Baen's Books
(www.baen.com). They have a LARGE portion of their library online, and in
fact have 4 CD's of books that are compilations of their stuff available on
line (the CD's came bound in hard backed books, but there's no real
restriction of redistributing the CD's, so the CD's live as bit torrents on
the 'net).
Now, Baen is a Science Fiction book seller, and their market is different
from a technical book seller. Depending on the book, many tech readers only
need a chapter or two (or even just snippets) rather than the whole book,
whereas most fiction readers pretty much want the entire thing. So, when
used as a reference, there is little downside to reading a tech book on
line.
If you're reading it cover to cover, then I'm an offline kind of guy so
buying the book is warranted.
But, anyway, if nothing else, Baen is an advocate of just what you want to
do, and if you surf around you may find some info on how well it is (or
isn't) working for them.
Regards,
Will Hartung
(·····@msoft.com)
Peter Seibel wrote:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
> will help sales more (by expanding the market) than it will hurt them
> (by letting people read it online who would otherwise have bought a
> copy). I don't know if that's true but it's what I believe.
I have pre-ordered.
Is this a binary choice? I see gray areas. Hold back the bits where the
full code for various examples is provided. Share just a few chapters,
or half the chapters, or whatever. If expanding your market is the goal,
does the whole book have to be on line?
my2. kt
Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> writes:
> Peter Seibel wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
>> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
>> will help sales more (by expanding the market) than it will hurt them
>> (by letting people read it online who would otherwise have bought a
>> copy). I don't know if that's true but it's what I believe.
>
> I have pre-ordered.
Right on. Thanks.
> Is this a binary choice? I see gray areas. Hold back the bits where
> the full code for various examples is provided. Share just a few
> chapters, or half the chapters, or whatever. If expanding your
> market is the goal, does the whole book have to be on line?
It's not binary. However my gut tells me there's an important
difference between putting up the whole book and putting up parts of
the book. The latter just feels like a marketing ploy--here's a taste,
if you want the whole thing you have to buy it. Whereas putting up the
whole book is, well, the whole book. Use it how you see fit and buy a
copy if you don't feel like reading 500 pages off a screen or want an
index or want to be able to read it in the john. Yes, some folks might
"freeload" and never buy it. But even they--if they like it--will
probably recommend it to someone else who may buy a copy.
Personally, I'd be much more likely to link to a web site of a
complete book than the marketing site for a book. Or to recommend,
without reservations, a complete book on the web to a newbie. The
former affects things like Google Page Rank; the later the amount of
word-of-mouth advertising you get. (I don't have the budget for an
"astroturfing" campaign wherein I pay supermodels to go into bars and
talk up my book. ;-))
Anyway, that's my theory. We'll see if I can convince Apress.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@javamonkey.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
From: Luis Oliveira
Subject: Re: Have you bought Practical Common Lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <gmvta2-lri.ln1@netman.ath.cx>
Peter Seibel skribis:
> (...) Use it how you see fit and buy a
> copy if you don't feel like reading 500 pages off a screen or want an
> index or want to be able to read it in the john.
They invented WiFi for a reason you know... :-)
--
Luís Oliveira
Reply-To: luismbo (@) netcabo (.) pt
Equipa Portuguesa do Translation Project
http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/po/registry.cgi?team=pt
Peter Seibel wrote:
> It's not binary. However my gut tells me there's an important
> difference between putting up the whole book and putting up parts of
> the book. The latter just feels like a marketing ploy--
OK. And the acid test is, How many people who would have bought the hard
copy will not buy if they have it on-line? Put that way, it is not so
many, since it is a big book and needs an index. Meanwhile, yes, it does
attract more links by not being crippled, and folks using it on-line are
likely to break down and eventually and order it. Esp. since it looks
like it will be a classic and a way-cool thing to have on the bookshelf.
kt
--
Cells? Cello? Celtik?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Peter Seibel wrote:
> Whereas putting up the
> whole book is, well, the whole book. Use it how you see fit and buy a
> copy if you don't feel like reading 500 pages off a screen or want an
> index or want to be able to read it in the john. Yes, some folks might
> "freeload" and never buy it. But even they--if they like it--will
> probably recommend it to someone else who may buy a copy.
Very true.
In the past I have bought SICP and HtDP in dead wook, both books are
available to their full extent on the web. When newbies ask for
solutions to various problems in newsgroups and IRC the majority of
references in the responses are to books, which are online in their
entirety. This also have the effect that these books turn up all the
time when googling.
When newcomers decide to buy a book on their new programming language
most people buy the most talked about books first - since they have
experienced that those books appear to be the "bibles" of the subject.
More experienced users tend to be picky when it comes to buying books,
and thus having the book online means that they see for them selves
that they aren't buying the cat in the sack. Practical Common Lisp
made it onto my to-buy list because, it was available on the net.
That being said, I think reference books such as
<http://www.scheme.com/tspl3/> or Numerical Recipes in C have a
harder time, since those books normally aren't read from
cover to cover.
--
Jens Axel Søgaard
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:28:21 GMT, <·····@javamonkey.com> wrote:
>
> It's not binary. However my gut tells me there's an important
> difference between putting up the whole book and putting up parts of
> the book. The latter just feels like a marketing ploy--here's a taste,
> if you want the whole thing you have to buy it
Well, your gut is right about my opinion of such a shortened offering.
--
Everyman has three hearts;
one to show the world, one to show friends, and one only he knows.
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:32:24 +0000, Peter Seibel wrote:
Hello Peter,
even so i _did_ read the book online i've preordered the book
from Amazon. I still prefer to read books in hardcopy and like
to be able to lend them to friends. I hope this will help you
to keep PCL online. The online copy is nice to start people's appetite
for lisp -- many will buy the book once they realize _how_ nice and
well-written it actually is.
Thanks Ralf Mattes
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
> let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information except
> possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me they
> bought the book") to Apress.
>
> If you have no idea what I'm talking about, check out:
>
> <http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/>
>
> and feel free to follow any of the links there to your favorite
> on-line book seller and pre-order a copy. Then send me an email about
> it. ;-)
>
> -Peter
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:32:24 +0000, Peter Seibel wrote:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
> will help sales more (by expanding the market) than it will hurt them
> (by letting people read it online who would otherwise have bought a
> copy). I don't know if that's true but it's what I believe. At any
> rate, I thought it might help make the case if I can show that folks
> have already bought it since any purchases to date are almost
> certainly due to it being up on the web or secondary word-of-mouth as
> a result of it being on the web.
It's on my wish list and I will order it as soon as I finished the winter
semester at university, because it would surely distract me if I had it
now ;).
I already read some chapters online and I like it very much. I'm not sure
whether I would buy it if it wasn't online.
thom
--
Thomas Weibel <····@beeblebrox.net>
"Oh no, not again."
-- A bowl of petunias on it's way to certain death.
Hi Peter!
Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> writes:
>
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
> let me know.
Yeehhaaa - I just pre-ordered. Good Old Germany now being part of the game..
> I'm not going to do anything with that information except
> possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me they
> bought the book") to Apress.
We do business cases over here in my (own) company ;-)
Anyway, good luck!
I just did my own little LOOP but of code after having read that
specific part of your book. And, what's more, that will go right
into a sold, real work for real money project for a well-known
large German company that also produces mobile phones (and also
has power plants in its portfolio) ...
Cheers!
Frank
Peter Seibel wrote:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
> will help sales more (by expanding the market) than it will hurt them
> (by letting people read it online who would otherwise have bought a
> copy).
...
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
> let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information except
> possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me they
> bought the book") to Apress.
I hereby declare that at such time as I learn of an
undertaking by the publisher to leave the book online
and unmolested, I shall purchase a (paper) copy.
(If that isn't yet possible, then I shall do on the
next occasion after that when I notice that it *is*
possible.)
(What if they make a weaker undertaking: to leave
it there for 6 months, or to leave some but not
all chapters there? Dunno.)
--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc
Peter Seibel wrote:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
> will help sales more (by expanding the market) than it will hurt them
> (by letting people read it online who would otherwise have bought a
> copy). I don't know if that's true but it's what I believe. At any
> rate, I thought it might help make the case if I can show that folks
> have already bought it since any purchases to date are almost
> certainly due to it being up on the web or secondary word-of-mouth as
> a result of it being on the web.
>
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
> let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information except
> possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me they
> bought the book") to Apress.
>
Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have purchased
a copy of CLtL2?
David Sletten
"David Sletten" <·····@slytobias.com> wrote in message
··························@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have purchased
> a copy of CLtL2?
*wave*
But I'm a bit of a loon, I've bought most every Lisp book I've ever seen on
a book shelf in a store. Winston, Graham, OOCL, CLTL2, AMOP, OOP w/CLOS,
PAIP, LiSP...I must be missing some, am I missing any besides Peter's? Bunch
of Scheme books too (Art of Scheme, Simply Scheme, Little Schemer, Seasoned
Schemer, SICP).
Regards,
Will Hartung
(·····@msoft.com)
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Have you bought Practical Common Lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <uu0pv5pyt.fsf@agharta.de>
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:46:31 GMT, David Sletten <·····@slytobias.com> wrote:
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
> purchased a copy of CLtL2?
I have. Have you?
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> writes:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:46:31 GMT, David Sletten <·····@slytobias.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
>> purchased a copy of CLtL2?
>
> I have. Have you?
Me too. Though I'm not sure that actually is relvant to my case since
CLTL2 and Practical Common Lisp are such different beasts--although I
read my copy of CLTL2 from cover to cover probably most folks just use
it to look stuff up in from time to time. For that kind of book I
wouldn't be surprised if making it freely available didn't undermine
book sales.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@javamonkey.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
Peter Seibel wrote:
> Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> writes:
>
>
>>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:46:31 GMT, David Sletten <·····@slytobias.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
>>>purchased a copy of CLtL2?
>>
>>I have. Have you?
>
>
> Me too. Though I'm not sure that actually is relvant to my case since
> CLTL2 and Practical Common Lisp are such different beasts--although I
> read my copy of CLTL2 from cover to cover probably most folks just use
> it to look stuff up in from time to time. For that kind of book I
> wouldn't be surprised if making it freely available didn't undermine
> book sales.
>
> -Peter
>
You may be right to the extent that CLtL2 is more of a pure reference
work. But I still bought a copy after using it online. I also bought a
PDF version of the standard, despite the ease of use of the CLHS.
CLTl2 is also twice the (projected) size of your book, so that's a
factor. I'm just trying to point out another well-known case...
David Sletten
From: Damien Kick
Subject: Re: Have you bought Practical Common Lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <r7kvjvsr.fsf@email.mot.com>
Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> writes:
> Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> writes:
>
> > On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:46:31 GMT, David Sletten
> > <·····@slytobias.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
> >> purchased a copy of CLtL2?
> >
> > I have. Have you?
>
> Me too. Though I'm not sure that actually is relvant to my case
> since CLTL2 and Practical Common Lisp are such different
> beasts--although I read my copy of CLTL2 from cover to cover
> probably most folks just use it to look stuff up in from time to
> time. For that kind of book I wouldn't be surprised if making it
> freely available didn't undermine book sales.
I didn't purchase a copy of CLTL2 because it has been somewhat
subsumed by the ANSI spec.; rather, I borrowed a copy from my
company's library. I should look into how long its been since someone
other than myself has borrowed it. I do plan on buying a copy of The
ANSI Common Lisp Reference Book, though, assuming that it will be what
I hope it will be. The problem that I had while reading CLTL2 was not
knowing what was and what was not actually something that made it into
the ANSI spec, though I have managed to read just about everything
except for the sections on CLOS and conditions. I half remember
having read in a c.l.l. article that there wasn't a large divergence
between the standard and CLTL2 but that there were some differences.
If I'd had easy access to a hardcopy of the actual standard, I
probably would've read that instead; I find that an actual book tends
to be far easier to bring with oneself to, for example, a doctor's
appointment to read while waiting.
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Have you bought Practical Common Lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <u7jml9lpe.fsf@agharta.de>
On 08 Jan 2005 18:22:28 -0600, Damien Kick <······@email.mot.com> wrote:
> The problem that I had while reading CLTL2 was not knowing what was
> and what was not actually something that made it into the ANSI spec,
> though I have managed to read just about everything except for the
> sections on CLOS and conditions.
<http://home.comcast.net/~bc19191/cltl2-ansi.htm>
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
David Sletten <·····@slytobias.com> writes:
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
> purchased a copy of CLtL2?
I did.
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (see also http://clrfi.alu.org):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
From: Svein Ove Aas
Subject: Re: Have you bought Practical Common Lisp?
Date:
Message-ID: <crj4lk$h69$1@services.kq.no>
start quoting David Sletten :
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have purchased
> a copy of CLtL2?
>
I did (second-hand), and I'll buy PCL too when it comes out.
David Sletten <·····@slytobias.com> writes:
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
> purchased a copy of CLtL2?
I have. Also SICP and On Lisp. My dead tree of On Lisp was at the
publisher's price. I got it before Paul Graham became a famous
televangelist.
--
An ideal world is left as an excercise to the reader.
--- Paul Graham, On Lisp 8.1
David Sletten wrote:
> ...
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have purchased
> a copy of CLtL2?
I did. I also bought both editions of SICP
hs
On 8981 day of my life David Sletten wrote:
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
> purchased a copy of CLtL2?
I have. My co-worker travelled to US and I gave him money for
purchasing a copy.
Unfortunately, there won't such occasion for buying Peter's book.
Buying it from Amazon is problematic for me as Russian resident.
Yep, I would like to buy it even if it was online.
--
Ivan Boldyrev
Is 'morning' a gerund?
Ivan Boldyrev <···············@cgitftp.uiggm.nsc.ru> writes:
> Unfortunately, there won't such occasion for buying Peter's book.
> Buying it from Amazon is problematic for me as Russian resident.
> Yep, I would like to buy it even if it was online.
Is Amazon.de an option?
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/tg/stores/static/-/help/shipping-list-eng
Kind regards,
Dirk Gerrits
On 8984 day of my life Dirk Gerrits wrote:
> Ivan Boldyrev <···············@cgitftp.uiggm.nsc.ru> writes:
>
>> Unfortunately, there won't such occasion for buying Peter's book.
>> Buying it from Amazon is problematic for me as Russian resident.
>> Yep, I would like to buy it even if it was online.
>
> Is Amazon.de an option?
> http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/tg/stores/static/-/help/shipping-list-eng
Delivering is not problem, but payment is. The only possible way of
paiment is credit/debet card. But while there are number of cheap
national card systems in Russia, obtaining international card is
too expencive.
But you give me an idea: one of my friends lives in Germany now. I
can send him money with WesternUnion or something like that. Next
summer he will visit Russia and I will receive the book :)
--
Ivan Boldyrev
Sorry my terrible English, my native language is Lisp!
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:07:16 +0600, Ivan Boldyrev wrote:
> On 8984 day of my life Dirk Gerrits wrote:
>> Ivan Boldyrev <···············@cgitftp.uiggm.nsc.ru> writes:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, there won't such occasion for buying Peter's book.
>>> Buying it from Amazon is problematic for me as Russian resident.
>>> Yep, I would like to buy it even if it was online.
>>
>> Is Amazon.de an option?
>> http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/tg/stores/static/-/help/shipping-list-eng
>
> Delivering is not problem, but payment is. The only possible way of
> paiment is credit/debet card. But while there are number of cheap
> national card systems in Russia, obtaining international card is
> too expencive.
>
> But you give me an idea: one of my friends lives in Germany now. I
> can send him money with WesternUnion or something like that. Next
> summer he will visit Russia and I will receive the book :)
Since you said that delivery isn't a problem: why not have her/him order
in Germany but with a delivery address in Russia?
RalfD
On 8984 day of my life R. Mattes wrote:
>> But you give me an idea: one of my friends lives in Germany now. I
>> can send him money with WesternUnion or something like that. Next
>> summer he will visit Russia and I will receive the book :)
>
> Since you said that delivery isn't a problem: why not have her/him order
> in Germany but with a delivery address in Russia?
It's more expensive.
--
Ivan Boldyrev
Today is the first day of the rest of your life.
David Sletten wrote:
> Well, here's a simple question: How many of you out there have
> purchased a copy of CLtL2?
I have even SICP teacher's edition. This is how sick I am.
CLtL2 was probably 2nd-hand though. Same with Winston's Lisp.
There are a lot of obscure books about Lisp, almost none of which I
have but strongly want. As an example, Arthur Lemmens has a pretty cool
book on multiprocessing in Lisp, probably written back when Lispers
were jaded by systems with 64,000+ individual processors. Also, I was
shown an old Shrobe book where they talked about compiling, back when
it was new. Nowadays we take the whole thing glibly and for granted,
which I think is... unexciting. I don't want to read things which can't
be written with enthusiasm.
MfG,
Tayssir
"Tayssir John Gabbour" <···········@yahoo.com> writes:
> There are a lot of obscure books about Lisp, almost none of which I
> have but strongly want. As an example, Arthur Lemmens has a pretty
cool
> book on multiprocessing in Lisp, probably written back when Lispers
> were jaded by systems with 64,000+ individual processors.
Was that _The Connection Machine_ by Hillis or are you referring to
some other book? We Lisp bibliophiles need to know this type of
detail. ;-)
--
Bill Clementson
···············@yahoo.com wrote:
> "Tayssir John Gabbour" <···········@yahoo.com> writes:
> > There are a lot of obscure books about Lisp, almost none of which I
> > have but strongly want. As an example, Arthur Lemmens has a pretty
> > cool book on multiprocessing in Lisp, probably written back when
> > Lispers were jaded by systems with 64,000+ individual processors.
>
> Was that _The Connection Machine_ by Hillis or are you referring to
> some other book? We Lisp bibliophiles need to know this type of
> detail. ;-)
That was remiss of me. ;) I think it was "Parallel Computing in Lisp"
mentioned here:
http://dirkgerrits.com/erlisp/references-lisp.html
Man, that page has cool-as-hell sexps. So much easier to read.
Incidentally, I need to grab a copy of "The Programming Language LISP,
its Operation and Applications", which I hear can be scanned in by
MIT's out-of-print service.
http://alu.cliki.net/Obscure%20Book
(For some reason, both pages link to the shadowy blogger known as Bill
Clementson...)
MfG,
Tayssir
Tayssir John Gabbour wrote:
> > Was that _The Connection Machine_ by Hillis or are you referring to
> > some other book? We Lisp bibliophiles need to know this type of
> > detail. ;-)
>
> That was remiss of me. ;) I think it was "Parallel Computing in Lisp"
> mentioned here:
> http://dirkgerrits.com/erlisp/references-lisp.html
Er, no wait, it was these two, which are also likely cited on Dirk's
page:
1. "Parallel Lisp Systems: a study of languages and architectures"
by C.K. Yuen with contributions from M.D. Feng, W.F. Wong and J.J.
Yee.
Chapman & Hall, 1993
2. "Parallel Lisp: Languages and Systems
US/Japan Workshop on Parallel Lisp
Sendai, Japan, June 1989
Proceedings"
by T. Ito and R.H. Halstead, Jr. (Eds.)
Springer-Verlag #441
MfG,
Tayssir
"Tayssir John Gabbour" <···········@yahoo.com> writes:
> ···············@yahoo.com wrote:
> > "Tayssir John Gabbour" <···········@yahoo.com> writes:
> > > There are a lot of obscure books about Lisp, almost none of which
I
> > > have but strongly want. As an example, Arthur Lemmens has a
pretty
> > > cool book on multiprocessing in Lisp, probably written back when
> > > Lispers were jaded by systems with 64,000+ individual processors.
> >
> > Was that _The Connection Machine_ by Hillis or are you referring to
> > some other book? We Lisp bibliophiles need to know this type of
> > detail. ;-)
>
> That was remiss of me. ;) I think it was "Parallel Computing in Lisp"
> mentioned here:
> http://dirkgerrits.com/erlisp/references-lisp.html
Thanks!
> Man, that page has cool-as-hell sexps. So much easier to read.
Yes, it's a neat resource list too. ;-)
> (For some reason, both pages link to the shadowy blogger known as
Bill
> Clementson...)
hehe. "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men..."
--
Bill Clementson
···············@yahoo.com writes:
> "Tayssir John Gabbour" <···········@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Man, that page has cool-as-hell sexps. So much easier to read.
Glad you like the style Tayssir. :)
> Yes, it's a neat resource list too. ;-)
Thanks Bill, but I'm actually not too happy about it myself. ;) I still
need to add some stuff I acquired recently. I'd also like to make the
categorization of concurrency-related stuff more fine-grained, more ...
"taxonomic". And of course progress on Erlisp itself is also very slow
due to school work. :(
But hey, nothing like a little encouragement to brighten my day. Thanks
guys. :)
Kind regards,
Dirk Gerrits
Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> writes:
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email and
> let me know.
After reading a few chapters from your website, I pre-ordered Practical
Common Lisp on 17 June 2004. I've been reading newly written chapters
since then, and I've not cancelled the order, nor do I plan to.
If Apress would like to know why, my main reasons are:
* I want to support the publication of more Lisp books
* I don't like reading of computer screens (E-Ink and similar
technologies might change this in the future)
* I just like having books ;)
I have also bought SICP, CLtL2, and AMOP (specification-part is online)
for similar reasons, and I would by On Lisp if I could (for now my own
printout will have to do).
Kind regards,
Dirk Gerrits
In article <··············@javamonkey.com>, Peter Seibel wrote:
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email
> and let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information
> except possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me
> they bought the book") to Apress.
I got a shiny new laptop[1] for Christmas in part because I got tired
of reading ebooks on my Palm m505. I pre-ordered it (just now, at
bn.com) just so I can mirror the website[2] with a clear conscience.
-- Larry
[1] Sony Vaio T160. Weighs 3 pounds, has WiFi & Bluetooth, and a
battery that lasts for 5 hours. "Woot!"
[2] Locally, offline, for my own use.
hi peter
I will be pre-ording PCL next week, after my cash flow increases :) I
can't wait to read it in book form. Seeing it on the Net is basically
why I am going to buy it.
--
Certum quod factum.
Philip Haddad
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 05:32:24 GMT, Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com>
wrote:
I preordered it from Amazon.
Keep up the good work.
Got a lot of good tips and it filled in some blanks in my knowlege.
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Peter Seibel wrote:
> So, if you've pre-ordered Practical Common Lisp it'd be a help to me
> (to say nothing of gratifying to my ego) if you'd drop me an email
> and let me know. I'm not going to do anything with that information
> except possibly present it in aggregate form ("N people have told me
> they bought the book") to Apress.
Hi Peter,
I've preordered your book. Hope I didn't get back to you too late.
Please tell us if this thing falls through. ;)
I wish we could just send you/Apress a straight "gift," free from the
inefficiency of going through a profit-making entity like Amazon. Maybe
one day publishers will help build communities around books. Or maybe
that's not a publisher's natural responsibility but rather more a Lisp
users' community.
MfG,
Tayssir
"Tayssir John Gabbour" <···········@yahoo.com> writes:
> I wish we could just send you/Apress a straight "gift," free from the
> inefficiency of going through a profit-making entity like Amazon. Maybe
At times, such profit-making entities can offer really good deals.
Within the past couple of months, I purchased from Amazon over half a
dozen used computing books at prices around 1$ or less. I basically
paid only shipping at 9.79$ per book--and since I live in Europe, the
weakness of US $ does help.
> one day publishers will help build communities around books. Or maybe
> that's not a publisher's natural responsibility but rather more a Lisp
> users' community.
I wouldn't mind publishers offering comparable deals.
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (see also http://clrfi.alu.org):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> writes:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. I believe that this
[...]
Great book, Peter. Exactly what I've been looking for to round out my
Lisp education. Please feel free to quote me on anything I say here
if it helps your cause.
I pre-ordered it today from amazon.ca.
I first--and most frequently--heard of your book from various on-line
Lisp resources. Being able to read the text on-line first was a
deciding factor in my purchase. Simply publishing a table of contents
and a few reviews does little to whet my appetite anymore.
Nevertheless, I would continue to use the on-line copy, were it still
available, even after receiving my printed copy. I tend to use
on-line copies as references while working at the keyboard; and enjoy
the printed copy while slacking on the couch. Both are important
resources to me.
Regards.
--
Mike
Peter Seibel wrote:
> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. [...] At any
> rate, I thought it might help make the case if I can show that folks
> have already bought it since any purchases to date are almost
> certainly due to it being up on the web or secondary word-of-mouth as
> a result of it being on the web.
Peter,
is there anything new on this front?
And, btw., about how many preorders were you informed?
Also, what amount of money will go to _your_ pocket per book,
if you may tell?
"Tobias C. Rittweiler" <······@freebits.de> writes:
> Peter Seibel wrote:
>> I'm trying to make the case to Apress for keeping _Practical Common
>> Lisp_ on the web after its published in book form. [...] At any
>> rate, I thought it might help make the case if I can show that folks
>> have already bought it since any purchases to date are almost
>> certainly due to it being up on the web or secondary word-of-mouth as
>> a result of it being on the web.
>
> Peter,
>
> is there anything new on this front?
Nothing official. I sent Apress a longish email late last week with
all my best arguments but haven't heard back yet.
> And, btw., about how many preorders were you informed?
Seemed like about 50-100. I also noticed a nice spike in orders on
Amazon around the time I asked--thanks guys!
> Also, what amount of money will go to _your_ pocket per book,
> if you may tell?
Heh. It's not going to make me rich unless all those kids decide they
can't wait for the sixth installment of Harry Potter and buy Practical
Common Lisp instead. I can tell you, roughly, since Apress's publishes
their standard contract on their web site. The royaltees are 12.5% for
the first 7,999 copies sold, 17.5% for copies 8,000-49,999, and 20%
for copies 50,000 and up. The list price is $49.95. However my
royalties are, as I understand it, based on the price Apress gets for
the books which I think is something like 45% of the list. So you can
do the math--it's a few bucks per copy.
--
Peter Seibel ·····@javamonkey.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> writes:
> Heh. It's not going to make me rich unless all those kids decide they
> can't wait for the sixth installment of Harry Potter and buy Practical
> Common Lisp instead. I can tell you, roughly, since Apress's publishes
> their standard contract on their web site. The royaltees are 12.5% for
> the first 7,999 copies sold, 17.5% for copies 8,000-49,999, and 20%
> for copies 50,000 and up. The list price is $49.95. However my
> royalties are, as I understand it, based on the price Apress gets for
> the books which I think is something like 45% of the list. So you can
> do the math--it's a few bucks per copy.
That's why if I wrote a book I'd publish it on the web and ask $3.00
paypal payments. Readers could buy it for a 16th of the price and I'd
receive more money.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Kitty like plastic.
Confuses for litter box.
Don't leave tarp around.
Pascal Bourguignon <····@mouse-potato.com> writes:
> Peter Seibel <·····@javamonkey.com> writes:
>> Heh. It's not going to make me rich unless all those kids decide they
>> can't wait for the sixth installment of Harry Potter and buy Practical
>> Common Lisp instead. I can tell you, roughly, since Apress's publishes
>> their standard contract on their web site. The royaltees are 12.5% for
>> the first 7,999 copies sold, 17.5% for copies 8,000-49,999, and 20%
>> for copies 50,000 and up. The list price is $49.95. However my
>> royalties are, as I understand it, based on the price Apress gets for
>> the books which I think is something like 45% of the list. So you can
>> do the math--it's a few bucks per copy.
>
> That's why if I wrote a book I'd publish it on the web and ask $3.00
> paypal payments. Readers could buy it for a 16th of the price and
> I'd receive more money.
Yet strangely I doubt if I'd have taken two years with no pay to write
a book that I was just going to publish on the web. That may not be
rational but little about writing a book is. ;-)
Plus there are some advantages to working with a publisher beyond
motivation--they pay technical reviewers and professional copy-editors
which you'd still want, even if it was going to be web published. So
if I was self-publishing I'd be a couple thousand in the hole at the
moment and waiting for those Pay Pal payments just to help me break
even.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@javamonkey.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp