UNIX admin <··········@hotmail.com> writes:
> kier wrote:
> > WTF is a PC-BUCKET? I run computers, not buckets. Buckets are for carry
> > water - you know, that thing your arguments don't seem to hold much of.
>
> Quite right as far as the bucket, that is exactly what I am referring
> to. A metal bucket that you usually carry water and mop in. If you
> knock on the case of any average PC, you'll get that metal sound
> back. I'm also alluding that today's PC is no better or more useful
> than that same bucket with water and mop in it.
>
Then what is a SUN Sparc box? PCs lay waste to most SUN
workstations. I was thinking of buying one, but I could not find a
new SUN box under 2.5 grand that would even be comparable to a modern
PC. The SUN Blade 2000s that are on Ebay have the pre-fetch bug in
them, so it is something I will avoid. Plus, Solaris 10 is not out
yet, and I would have to run Linux on it until OpenSolaris came out.
That is why when Solaris 10 comes out, I'll format my Linux harddrive
and install it on my PC and not on a SPARC workstation.
This is similar to where SUN was almost 20 years ago at MIT. People
there were calling the SUN workstations "buckets" when compared to
their LISP machines. Ultimately the lower cost SUN boxes won the
day. But those who were there still yearn for those LISP machines and
their debugging capabilities.
Now SUN is in the same place but the roles are reveresed. Its DTrace
is being lauded as the "great debug tool". But if one learns from
history, and follows what happened even at MIT, the less robust and
cheaper solution will win.
That is why Microsoft is still on so many desktops. The lower cost
product wins, if it does the job even a tiny bit. That is why SUN can
win with OpenSolaris, and OpenOffice in the corporate world.
Unfortunately, they don't have media players that can compete with
Microsoft's media player 10.
People learn windows at home and that's what they use at work. IMHO,
SUN would be wise to push Solaris into the consumer market as a
secure OS with full media capabilities like gaming, DVD and music
playing.
-1 : offtopic
-1 : troll
Extra 'Mike Cox' Modifier: -3
Total : -5
Nothing to see here. Move along. ;)
drewc
Mike Cox wrote:
> UNIX admin <··········@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>kier wrote:
>>
>>>WTF is a PC-BUCKET? I run computers, not buckets. Buckets are for carry
>>>water - you know, that thing your arguments don't seem to hold much of.
>>
>>Quite right as far as the bucket, that is exactly what I am referring
>>to. A metal bucket that you usually carry water and mop in. If you
>>knock on the case of any average PC, you'll get that metal sound
>>back. I'm also alluding that today's PC is no better or more useful
>>than that same bucket with water and mop in it.
>>
>
>
> Then what is a SUN Sparc box? PCs lay waste to most SUN
> workstations. I was thinking of buying one, but I could not find a
> new SUN box under 2.5 grand that would even be comparable to a modern
> PC. The SUN Blade 2000s that are on Ebay have the pre-fetch bug in
> them, so it is something I will avoid. Plus, Solaris 10 is not out
> yet, and I would have to run Linux on it until OpenSolaris came out.
>
> That is why when Solaris 10 comes out, I'll format my Linux harddrive
> and install it on my PC and not on a SPARC workstation.
>
> This is similar to where SUN was almost 20 years ago at MIT. People
> there were calling the SUN workstations "buckets" when compared to
> their LISP machines. Ultimately the lower cost SUN boxes won the
> day. But those who were there still yearn for those LISP machines and
> their debugging capabilities.
>
> Now SUN is in the same place but the roles are reveresed. Its DTrace
> is being lauded as the "great debug tool". But if one learns from
> history, and follows what happened even at MIT, the less robust and
> cheaper solution will win.
>
> That is why Microsoft is still on so many desktops. The lower cost
> product wins, if it does the job even a tiny bit. That is why SUN can
> win with OpenSolaris, and OpenOffice in the corporate world.
> Unfortunately, they don't have media players that can compete with
> Microsoft's media player 10.
>
> People learn windows at home and that's what they use at work. IMHO,
> SUN would be wise to push Solaris into the consumer market as a
> secure OS with full media capabilities like gaming, DVD and music
> playing.
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: Linux Advocates Fear Solaris 10.
Date:
Message-ID: <uvfagfsw4.fsf@news.dtpq.com>
drewc <·····@rift.com> writes:
> -1 : offtopic
> -1 : troll
>
> Extra 'Mike Cox' Modifier: -3
>
> Total : -5
>
> Nothing to see here. Move along. ;)
>
> drewc
The article you are commenting on was very insightful,
while all that you offered some ad-hominem remark.
Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
> The article you are commenting on was very insightful,
> while all that you offered some ad-hominem remark.
Oh FFS, does the little ";)" not imply <tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek>
anymore?
Maybe i should clarify my response to the OP for the Humour Impaired.
<new reply follows>
While you do make a few interesting points WRT your platforms of choice,
simply mentioning LISP machines, and then cross-posting to lisp, does
not mean this is ontopic for this newsgroup. If this were slashdot,
you'd be moderated -1 : offtopic.
Also, your crossposting to c.l.l at this point in the converation seems,
to me, to be simply an attempt to garner impassioned responses from the
c.l.l readers. This kind of thing is usually known as 'trolling'. Please
excuse me if this was not your intent, but i have reasons to assume it
is (read on). If this were slashdot, you'd now get an extra -1 : troll
modifier.
Finally, i've read your (mike cox) posts before, and they all seem to be
Trolls of some sort. Infact, the very first thing that comes up when
searching for your name in google groups is a post entitled "Mike Cox is
now the top troll.".
Now, I'm usually not one to believe in the popular opinion (argumentum
ad populum), but my own experience here in c.l.l mirrors that of the
vocal majority. Infact, I was first inroduced to the name 'mike cox' in
a post that was eventually renamed "Mike Cox is a Troll".
While you have a very vocal, and often interesting opinion, I have
trouble, because of your past posts and your general reputation as a
troll, taking anything you say at face value. Because of this, whenever
i see your name, the post loses a significant amount of legitimacy in my
eyes. If my mind were slashdot, this post would gain a very special "-3
: mike cox" modifier.
All that being said, i read your post carefully, as if i am to take on
the position of moderator (mostly for my own amusement, nothing
personal), i would be unfair if i were to not RTFA.
After reading the article, i gained nothing. You give us little insight
into your opinions, but rather repeat well known information such as "PC
s are cheaper with more CPU power then SUN Sparc Machines" and "Lisp
machines were loved by thier users but ultimatly lost in the
marketplace", and then conclude with "Worse is Better".
In short, and in my opinion, your post offers nothing beyond a giggle at
the troll attempt. In other words, nothing to see here. Move along.
</new reply>
drewc
ps- ;)
drew
Nobody gives a shit about what others do on slashdot... This is not
slashdot(thankfully)!
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Linux Advocates Fear Solaris 10.
Date:
Message-ID: <uekh45cym.fsf@agharta.de>
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:48:27 GMT, ······@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote:
> drewc <·····@rift.com> writes:
>
>> -1 : offtopic
>> -1 : troll
>>
>> Extra 'Mike Cox' Modifier: -3
>>
>> Total : -5
>>
>> Nothing to see here. Move along. ;)
>>
>> drewc
>
> The article you are commenting on was very insightful, while all
> that you offered some ad-hominem remark.
Spend three minutes to search Google Groups for the last ten or twenty
messages "Mike Cox" has crossposted to comp.lang.lisp and you'll
notice that all of them were trolls in the sense that his main
interest seems to be to start flame fests. I fail to see what was so
insightful in his article and I also fail to see what was ad hominem
in drewc's article given Mr. Cox' history here.
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> writes:
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:48:27 GMT, ······@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote:
>
> > drewc <·····@rift.com> writes:
> >
> >> -1 : offtopic
> >> -1 : troll
> >>
> >> Extra 'Mike Cox' Modifier: -3
> >>
> >> Total : -5
> >>
> >> Nothing to see here. Move along. ;)
> >>
> >> drewc
> >
> > The article you are commenting on was very insightful, while all
> > that you offered some ad-hominem remark.
>
> Spend three minutes to search Google Groups for the last ten or twenty
> messages "Mike Cox" has crossposted to comp.lang.lisp and you'll
> notice that all of them were trolls in the sense that his main
> interest seems to be to start flame fests. I fail to see what was so
> insightful in his article and I also fail to see what was ad hominem
> in drewc's article given Mr. Cox' history here.
Just because I have a different opinion than you doesn't mean I'm a
troll. It is easy to paint someone as a "troll" because you don't
agree with their opinions because it allows one to keep their "own
little World".
LISP guru Paul Graham has been thinking outside the
box, and what he has written could easily be considered more
provocative than anything I've written. After all wasn't he the one
who called C++ and JAVA programmers poor programmers? He main thesis
was that LISP and PYTHON were superior to C++ and JAVA.
Mike Cox wrote:
> Just because I have a different opinion than you doesn't mean I'm a
> troll.
> LISP guru Paul Graham has been thinking outside the
> box, and what he has written could easily be considered more
> provocative than anything I've written.
Mike Cox's greatest hits on comp.lang.lisp:
2004/03/13: "I've been using lisp now for a week, and now I want to make
some bucks selling my software."
2004/03/14: "I KNOW computer science. For me to pick up another
language is trivial. Are you familiar with Knuth, or Dijkstra? I am,
and with my solid theoretical knowledge, it is expected that one be able
to master a language in a week."
2004/03/15: "2 weeks ago, I tried lisp for the first time so I could use
emacs. Now I'm about to write a .NET implementation of lisp, LISP.NET."
2004/03/16: "I know enough about lisp that I'm a master of emacs, it
just that I started reading about lisp macros last night."
2004/03/21: "This topic is too funny! I know a few "jobs" that San
Francisco "lispers" can do!"
2004/03/23: "The REASON people are not having kids is because they
cannot afford it because of the high taxes they pay to care for the
immigrant's child. They are being RESPONSIBLE when the delay having kids
because of the high cost, unfortunatly they just end up paying for some
imigrant who pumps out kids because they get government help and have no
incentive to keep it under control."
2004/03/24: "In cases like strip clubs, the courts have ruled that it is
OK to discriminate AGAINST HIRING MEN as strippers because the nature of
the business is about WOMEN STRIPPING. Marriage is that. It is a
relationship between a man and a woman just like a strip club is a
business that features women dancing not men."
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: Linux Advocates Fear Solaris 10.
Date:
Message-ID: <uacrr17e7.fsf@news.dtpq.com>
Edi Weitz <········@agharta.de> writes:
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:48:27 GMT, ······@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote:
>
> > drewc <·····@rift.com> writes:
> >
> >> -1 : offtopic
> >> -1 : troll
> >>
> >> Extra 'Mike Cox' Modifier: -3
> >>
> >> Total : -5
> >>
> >> Nothing to see here. Move along. ;)
> >>
> >> drewc
> >
> > The article you are commenting on was very insightful, while all
> > that you offered some ad-hominem remark.
>
> Spend three minutes to search Google Groups for the last ten or twenty
> messages "Mike Cox" has crossposted to comp.lang.lisp
I referred only the article in question in this newsgroup,
and did not go on some kind of witch hunt through Google to
see if Mike Cox has ever posted anything I didn't like.
His observation was essentially "worse is better" and was using Lisp
Machines as an example; that seemed like a reasonable post to me.
The only problem with it, and the only traffic its generated at
all, seems to be people writing nasty messages about Mike Cox.