All this talk about ACL ...
The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
1100 EUR == 1305 USD
1100 USD == 928 EUR
Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de> writes:
> All this talk about ACL ...
>
> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>
> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>
> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
That's not weird, it's totally normal. Maybe not great for those of
us who get paid in Euros, but looking at the conversion rates over the
last 5 years:
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=EUR&amt=1&t=5y
do you suggest they change their prices to track that?
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`. )----'
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:33:24 +0100, Thomas F. Burdick
<···@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de> writes:
>
>> All this talk about ACL ...
>>
>> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>>
>> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>>
>> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
>
> That's not weird, it's totally normal. Maybe not great for those of
> us who get paid in Euros, but looking at the conversion rates over the
> last 5 years:
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=EUR&amt=1&t=5y
>
> do you suggest they change their prices to track that?
>
Yes.. Set a base currency like pounds and compute any local currency from
that..
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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
John Thingstad wrote:
>
> Yes.. Set a base currency like pounds and compute any local currency from
> that..
>
No way. The base should always track Pork Bellies. Much better.
Thomas F. Burdick <···@conquest.ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de> writes:
>> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>>
>> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
>
> That's not weird, it's totally normal. Maybe not great for those of
> us who get paid in Euros, but looking at the conversion rates over the
> last 5 years:
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=EUR&amt=1&t=5y
>
> do you suggest they change their prices to track that?
Shipping and Taxes are not included. Why include the currency risk? Just
price it EUR 949.99. The rest of the world doesn't have EUR and USD, too.
So why extra prices for US customers?
Maybe US Americans don't want help from UK and the support costs are
less than with EU customers. ;-)
Stefan Scholl wrote:
> Shipping and Taxes are not included. Why include the currency risk? Just
> price it EUR 949.99. The rest of the world doesn't have EUR and USD, too.
> So why extra prices for US customers?
>
> Maybe US Americans don't want help from UK and the support costs are
> less than with EU customers. ;-)
Could be they set their price tags some time ago when $1 equaled
EUR1,-.
However, did you ask them on their price policy? I am quite confident
their prices are up to some point negotiable. Ask them whether it is
okay when you pay them $1100,-.
Sir Francis Drake
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:32:55 +0100, F�rster vom Silberwald""
<··········@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Stefan Scholl wrote:
>
>> Shipping and Taxes are not included. Why include the currency risk? Just
>> price it EUR 949.99. The rest of the world doesn't have EUR and USD,
>> too.
>> So why extra prices for US customers?
>>
>> Maybe US Americans don't want help from UK and the support costs are
>> less than with EU customers. ;-)
>
> Could be they set their price tags some time ago when $1 equaled
> EUR1,-.
>
> However, did you ask them on their price policy? I am quite confident
> their prices are up to some point negotiable. Ask them whether it is
> okay when you pay them $1100,-.
>
> Sir Francis Drake
>
Yes, that was kinda my point..
My currency is Norwegian Kroners.
Their currency is Pounds.
Neither ponds or dollars are either LispWorks or my local currency.
You are right that this is not the right place to discuss it though.
Then again I didn't bring it up but I too reacted to the difference.
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On 2005-12-22 11:32:55, F�rster vom Silberwald wrote:
> However, did you ask them on their price policy? I am quite confident
> their prices are up to some point negotiable. Ask them whether it is
> okay when you pay them $1100,-.
I can't remember any article about the strange LispWorks pricing so
I guess everyone else who _really_ wants to buy LispWorks has asked
them ... :-)
--
Web: http://www.no-spoon.de/ -*- IRC: stesch @ freenode
Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de> writes:
> All this talk about ACL ...
>
> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>
> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>
> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
Which seems totally logical, since you have more transport and
translation costs when selling from US to Europe.
I'd invoice also 1100 Yen to Japan, and 1100 Huan to China.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
"What is this talk of "release"? Klingons do not make software
"releases". Our software "escapes" leaving a bloody trail of
designers and quality assurance people in its wake."
In article <··············@thalassa.informatimago.com>,
Pascal Bourguignon <····@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> > LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
> > from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
> >
> > 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
> > 1100 USD == 928 EUR
>
> Which seems totally logical, since you have more transport and
> translation costs when selling from US to Europe.
This might make sense if Lispworks was in fact a US company.
-bcd
--
*** Brian Downing <bdowning at lavos dot net>
Brian Downing <·············@lavos.net> writes:
> In article <··············@thalassa.informatimago.com>,
> Pascal Bourguignon <····@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> > LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>> > from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>> >
>> > 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>> > 1100 USD == 928 EUR
>>
>> Which seems totally logical, since you have more transport and
>> translation costs when selling from US to Europe.
>
> This might make sense if Lispworks was in fact a US company.
Is it not? Oh, UK is not in the US, yet.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we. -- Georges W. Bush
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:53:30 +0100, Pascal Bourguignon
<····@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de> writes:
>
>> All this talk about ACL ...
>>
>> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>>
>> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>>
>> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
>
> Which seems totally logical, since you have more transport and
> translation costs when selling from US to Europe.
>
> I'd invoice also 1100 Yen to Japan, and 1100 Huan to China.
>
>
Errm.. LispWorks is situated in England.
And who charges 300 $ to transport a CD across the sea?
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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
"Ruslan Abdulkhalikov" <······@gmail.com> writes:
> maybe VAT is included in EU price?
That should be hard too. There are as many different VAT rates as coutries.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it!
Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"
Stefan Scholl wrote:
> All this talk about ACL ...
>
> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>
> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>
> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
Mhh, i didn't understand the problem. What kind of application
are you writing that make profit if LW is 928EUR but loss if LW is
USD1305 ?
Or are we just discussing a topic that LW doesn't handle because they
are too busy with making the tool better ?
(Sorry, bored ;-)
Regards
AHz
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:47:24 +0100, Andreas <···@snafu.de> wrote:
> Stefan Scholl wrote:
>> All this talk about ACL ...
>> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
> Mhh, i didn't understand the problem. What kind of application
> are you writing that make profit if LW is 928EUR but loss if LW is
> USD1305 ?
>
> Or are we just discussing a topic that LW doesn't handle because they
> are too busy with making the tool better ?
> (Sorry, bored ;-)
> Regards
> AHz
Not at all I'd just have my sister that lives in america buy it and
then ship it to me. In the minimum version there is no support or updates
anyhow. I mean why waste 300$..
On the other hand why should I have to.
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John Thingstad wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:47:24 +0100, Andreas <···@snafu.de> wrote:
>
>> Stefan Scholl wrote:
>>
>>> All this talk about ACL ...
>>> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>>> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>>> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>>> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>>> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
>>
>> Mhh, i didn't understand the problem. What kind of application
>> are you writing that make profit if LW is 928EUR but loss if LW is
>> USD1305 ?
>>
>> Or are we just discussing a topic that LW doesn't handle because they
>> are too busy with making the tool better ?
>> (Sorry, bored ;-)
>> Regards
>> AHz
>
>
> Not at all I'd just have my sister that lives in america buy it and
> then ship it to me. In the minimum version there is no support or updates
> anyhow. I mean why waste 300$..
> On the other hand why should I have to.
>
Then you have to pay US & home market taxes, too. But maybe you can
make up a nice arbitrage business with reimporting software :-))
However, i assume that the pricing for LW is neither in USD or EUR but
in GBP and the prices in USD and EUR are just made to keep it simple for
the customers and LispWorks itself. And if anyone really bother about
todays exchange rate then IMHO it would be simpler to call LispWorks and
ask for a better price.
Kind regards
AHz
Andreas wrote:
> Then you have to pay US & home market taxes, too. But maybe you can
> make up a nice arbitrage business with reimporting software :-))
That's the point of arbitrage. It's better for customers, because
prices lower (by taking the cheapest route from manufacturer to your door).
Now some companies (like the DVD mafia) like to fix prices per country,
but my reaction is to simply not buy any of them. Seems like Blu-ray
will have region-codes too, so no more movies for me.
> However, i assume that the pricing for LW is neither in USD or EUR but
> in GBP and the prices in USD and EUR are just made to keep it simple for
> the customers and LispWorks itself. And if anyone really bother about
> todays exchange rate then IMHO it would be simpler to call LispWorks and
> ask for a better price.
I don't think it's un-simple for LW or the customers to have prices that
aren't divisible by �100 or $100, but it might have been a marketing
decision.
I suppose LW aren't as evil as the DVD guys, so indeed asking them might
help. If not, just reimport it; it's not a DVD, so the US version
should work even on European hardware.
note to self: sell the two DVDs I own.
--
I wake up each morning determined to change the world...
and also to have one hell of a good time.
Sometimes that makes planning the day a little difficult.
E.B. White
Ulrich Hobelmann wrote:
> Andreas wrote:
>
>> Then you have to pay US & home market taxes, too. But maybe you can
>> make up a nice arbitrage business with reimporting software :-))
>
>
> That's the point of arbitrage. It's better for customers, because
> prices lower (by taking the cheapest route from manufacturer to your door).
>
> Now some companies (like the DVD mafia) like to fix prices per country,
> but my reaction is to simply not buy any of them. Seems like Blu-ray
> will have region-codes too, so no more movies for me.
AFAIK there are lots of hacks to bypass the DVD region code when playing
it on an PC or the XBOX :-))
Regards
AHz
Andreas wrote:
>> Now some companies (like the DVD mafia) like to fix prices per
>> country, but my reaction is to simply not buy any of them. Seems like
>> Blu-ray will have region-codes too, so no more movies for me.
> AFAIK there are lots of hacks to bypass the DVD region code when playing
> it on an PC or the XBOX :-))
But there's never a guarantee. I think when I last put an American DVD
into my Mac, it worked, but the uncertainty made me not buy any more
DVDs, because nobody guarantees me that they'll work. And restricting
myself to American imports (too inconvenient) or to EU-only DVDs (too
little choice) is no option for me.
IMHO there's only one way to get crappy corporations to leave this
world: don't give them a cent. not even a half cent. Even if they
don't starve, you have saved some money.
The same applies to Lisp vendors (if they don't provide what you want),
but I think they are more interested in happy users than the DVD mafia
is, so it might be enough to just ask them.
--
I wake up each morning determined to change the world...
and also to have one hell of a good time.
Sometimes that makes planning the day a little difficult.
E.B. White
Ulrich Hobelmann <···········@web.de> writes:
> Andreas wrote:
> >> Now some companies (like the DVD mafia) like to fix prices per
> >> country, but my reaction is to simply not buy any of them. Seems
> >> like Blu-ray will have region-codes too, so no more movies for me.
> > AFAIK there are lots of hacks to bypass the DVD region code when
> > playing it on an PC or the XBOX :-))
>
> But there's never a guarantee. I think when I last put an American DVD
> into my Mac, it worked, but the uncertainty made me not buy any more
> DVDs, because nobody guarantees me that they'll work. And restricting
> myself to American imports (too inconvenient) or to EU-only DVDs (too
> little choice) is no option for me.
The only guarantees you can get are death and taxes. If you spend a
couple minutes on google you'll find all the region cracking and
NTSC/PAL re-encoding techniques you need to watch most any dvd on most
any OS. Even if you got some kind of "guarantee", what makes you think
its worth anything anyway? At best all you can do is return the dvd for
a refund.
But I'll be the last to stand in the way of a good rant... do carry on.
> The same applies to Lisp vendors (if they don't provide what you want),
> but I think they are more interested in happy users than the DVD mafia
> is, so it might be enough to just ask them.
Certainly makes better sense to do that instead of bitching about the
situation.
Gregm
John Thingstad schrieb:
> Not at all I'd just have my sister that lives in america buy it and
> then ship it to me. In the minimum version there is no support or updates
> anyhow. I mean why waste 300$..
> On the other hand why should I have to.
Why you should waste 300$?
Easy: the licenses are not transferable for Lispworks :(
I don't know the laws in your country... perhaps this part of the
contract is illegal in norway which would mean that you could do it
that way. But if you are then allowed to sell your programs in the UK
or US... I don't think so.
On 2005-12-21 13:47:24, Andreas wrote:
> Or are we just discussing a topic that LW doesn't handle because they
> are too busy with making the tool better ?
Nope. This thread is just related to the ACL pricing thread. And a
proof that commercial lisp prices are "different".
--
Web: http://www.no-spoon.de/ -*- IRC: stesch @ freenode
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:02:35 +0100, Stefan Scholl <······@no-spoon.de>
tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>All this talk about ACL ...
>
>The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>
>LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>
>1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>1100 USD == 928 EUR
They should make a special 1100 RUR option for us Russians...
--
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| m"a ||FC AMKAR PERM|| mail: grue at mail.ru http://grue3.tripod.com |
| k || PWNZ J00 || Kingdom of Loathing: Grue3 lvl 18 Seal Clubber |
`-----'`-------------'`-------------------------------------------[4*72]
Stefan Scholl wrote:
> All this talk about ACL ...
>
> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>
> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>
> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
IIRC, Dave Fox of LispWorks Inc. announced a change of pricing when
LispWorks 5.0 will be introduced. I guess they won't change anything
until then.
Please take this with a grain of salt - maybe I don't remember correctly...
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Closer to MOP & ContextL:
http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Pascal Costanza wrote:
> Stefan Scholl wrote:
>
>> All this talk about ACL ...
>>
>> The prices for Lisp are really a bit weird.
>>
>> LispWorks http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html wants 1100 US$
>> from US customers and 1100 EUR from Europeans.
>>
>> 1100 EUR == 1305 USD
>> 1100 USD == 928 EUR
>
>
> IIRC, Dave Fox of LispWorks Inc. announced a change of pricing when
> LispWorks 5.0 will be introduced. I guess they won't change anything
> until then.
>
> Please take this with a grain of salt - maybe I don't remember correctly...
>
>
> Pascal
>
Speaking of Lispworks 5.0, do you (meaning anyone who reads this) think
that Q2 2006 is a reasonable expectation of availability? I remember
seeing some kind of slideshow that Lispworks did at one of the European
Lisp conferences that mentioned this... but it was at least a year ago.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:50:50 -0600, Andy Cristina <·············@gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking of Lispworks 5.0, do you (meaning anyone who reads this)
> think that Q2 2006 is a reasonable expectation of availability? I
> remember seeing some kind of slideshow that Lispworks did at one of
> the European Lisp conferences that mentioned this... but it was at
> least a year ago.
It was in April 2005 in Amsterdam, so less than a year. AFAIK
LispWorks is still planning to release LW 5.0 in Q2 2006. If you need
to have a definitive answer you'll have to email them directly, I
suppose.
Cheers,
Edi.
--
Lisp is not dead, it just smells funny.
Real email: (replace (subseq ·········@agharta.de" 5) "edi")
Edi Weitz wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:50:50 -0600, Andy Cristina <·············@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Speaking of Lispworks 5.0, do you (meaning anyone who reads this)
>> think that Q2 2006 is a reasonable expectation of availability? I
>> remember seeing some kind of slideshow that Lispworks did at one of
>> the European Lisp conferences that mentioned this... but it was at
>> least a year ago.
>
> It was in April 2005 in Amsterdam, so less than a year. AFAIK
> LispWorks is still planning to release LW 5.0 in Q2 2006. If you need
> to have a definitive answer you'll have to email them directly, I
> suppose.
>
I'm sorry, I was under the impression it was the April '04 meeting, my
mistake. I have emailed them, but for whatever reason I haven't
received a response.
Thanks,
Andy
> Cheers,
> Edi.
>