I've been told that I wasn't explicit enough so here are a few precisions:
The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
You can also just go to http://linkit.fractalconcept.com and click on "The
Common Lisp Directory" link. (people can think that it's the page title so I
should change it for something more explicit)
Once you are there you can see that I've added a few categories like
"implementations", etc. as an example.
Now to go on, the first step is to define the category tree. So let's do it
(in a breadth first way rather than depth first at least for the first 1 or
2 levels)
So what's your ideas for the other root categories ?
The second step will be to define the objects that will be linked to those
categories (i.e. descriptions for libraries, documents, tutorials, etc.)
The third step, once the structure is defined, will be to fill all this.
(The common-lisp.net maintainers are already ok to automatically sync the
Directory with the libraries in common-lisp.net.)
OK so what are your suggestions for step 1 (categories) and 2
(descriptions)?
Marc
From: Sam Steingold
Subject: Re: The Common Lisp Directory is online
Date:
Message-ID: <upsnz6tbl.fsf@gnu.org>
> * Marc Battyani <·············@senpgnypbaprcg.pbz> [2005-12-15 00:36:09 +0100]:
>
> The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
> http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
how is it different from CLIKI?
(as in "what added value justifies effort duplication?")
--
Sam Steingold (http://www.podval.org/~sds) running w2k
http://www.camera.org http://www.palestinefacts.org/ http://www.jihadwatch.org/
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Do not worry about which side your bread is buttered on: you eat BOTH sides.
On 2005-12-14 20:29:50 -0500, Sam Steingold <···@gnu.org> said:
>> * Marc Battyani <·············@senpgnypbaprcg.pbz> [2005-12-15 00:36:09 +0100]:
>>
>> The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
>> http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
>
> how is it different from CLIKI?
> (as in "what added value justifies effort duplication?")
CLIKI is just "Links to and resources for free software implemented in
Common Lisp and available on Unix-like systems." Marc's directory aims
to cover *all* common lisp implementations on *all* platforms. As he
wrote in his original proposal for it:
"There are many Lisp resources now but there is no central "Directory" where
Lispers can find them.
There are already a lot of places containing some info but not a exhaustive
independent and structured one:
-Cliki is some kind of directory but it's limited to free stuff for Linux
and is not organized
-The ALU wiki is another wiki
-Lispwire is for ACL compatible stuff
-Common-lisp.net hosts projects and mailing lists
-The CL cookbook
-Sourceforge
-The various Blogs of Lispers
-The various web sites of the developers
-Most of the new things are mentioned on Planet Lisp
-etc.
So I think it would be a good idea to setup a directory with these features:
-Organized with overlapping categories/sub-categories/etc.
-Containing pointers to libraries, implementations, tutorials, how-to,
information, etc.
-With clear meta-information for the different items. for instance for
libraries/software description: What is does, where to find it, on what
OS/implementations it works, latest version, etc.)
-With organized comments (removable item by item in case of spam)
-Administrable and (administered ;-)
-RSS feeds for each category sub level."
Raffael Cavallaro wrote:
> On 2005-12-14 20:29:50 -0500, Sam Steingold <···@gnu.org> said:
>
> >> * Marc Battyani <·············@senpgnypbaprcg.pbz> [2005-12-15 00:36:09 +0100]:
> >>
> >> The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
> >> http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
> >
> > how is it different from CLIKI?
> > (as in "what added value justifies effort duplication?")
>
> CLIKI is just "Links to and resources for free software implemented in
> Common Lisp and available on Unix-like systems." Marc's directory aims
> to cover *all* common lisp implementations on *all* platforms. As he
> wrote in his original proposal for it:
>
> "There are many Lisp resources now but there is no central "Directory" where
> Lispers can find them.
>
> There are already a lot of places containing some info but not a exhaustive
> independent and structured one:
> -Cliki is some kind of directory but it's limited to free stuff for Linux
> and is not organized
> -The ALU wiki is another wiki
> -Lispwire is for ACL compatible stuff
> -Common-lisp.net hosts projects and mailing lists
> -The CL cookbook
> -Sourceforge
> -The various Blogs of Lispers
> -The various web sites of the developers
> -Most of the new things are mentioned on Planet Lisp
> -etc.
>
> So I think it would be a good idea to setup a directory with these features:
> -Organized with overlapping categories/sub-categories/etc.
> -Containing pointers to libraries, implementations, tutorials, how-to,
> information, etc.
> -With clear meta-information for the different items. for instance for
> libraries/software description: What is does, where to find it, on what
> OS/implementations it works, latest version, etc.)
> -With organized comments (removable item by item in case of spam)
> -Administrable and (administered ;-)
> -RSS feeds for each category sub level."
I'm curious too, how would a linkit-based directory be a better
structure than a wiki?
Well, I do think a wiki is too ad-hoc for a computer to easily read.
Perhaps the linkit directory could just point to some wiki page(s) or
whatever, for situations where linkit's format is unsuitable.
Tayssir
"Tayssir John Gabbour" <···········@yahoo.com> wrote >
>
> I'm curious too, how would a linkit-based directory be a better
> structure than a wiki?
The Common Lisp Directory IS NOT LinkIt!
To go to the Common Lisp Directory you have to click on the "Common Lisp
Directory" link on LinkIt.
Looks like I will have to split it in 2 so that people understand that they
are 2 complementary things.
> Well, I do think a wiki is too ad-hoc for a computer to easily read.
> Perhaps the linkit directory could just point to some wiki page(s) or
> whatever, for situations where linkit's format is unsuitable.
This is exactly the case: LinkIt points to the Common Lisp Director.
Marc
"Sam Steingold" <···@gnu.org> wrote in
> > * Marc Battyani <·············@senpgnypbaprcg.pbz> [2005-12-15 00:36:09
+0100]:
> >
> > The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
> > http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
>
> how is it different from CLIKI?
> (as in "what added value justifies effort duplication?")
It's not effort duplication. It's different.
It's not a wiki, only the comments are open to every one. The content can
only be modified by the mainteners.
It's structured, categorized and organized.
It's for all the things related to Common Lisp. (CLiki is for free stuff for
unix only)
Its more like CPAN than like Cliki.
Marc
Marc Battyani wrote:
>> > The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
>> > http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
> It's not a wiki, only the comments are open to every one. The content can
> only be modified by the mainteners.
> It's structured, categorized and organized.
> It's for all the things related to Common Lisp. (CLiki is for free stuff for
> unix only)
> Its more like CPAN than like Cliki.
Do you intend to add some kind of text search facility (regular expressions
maybe)? Or do you want to hand over that job to Google?
"Arthur Lemmens" <········@xs4all.nl> wrote
> Marc Battyani wrote:
>
> >> > The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
> >> > http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
>
> > It's not a wiki, only the comments are open to every one. The content
can
> > only be modified by the mainteners.
> > It's structured, categorized and organized.
> > It's for all the things related to Common Lisp. (CLiki is for free stuff
for
> > unix only)
> > Its more like CPAN than like Cliki.
>
> Do you intend to add some kind of text search facility (regular
expressions
> maybe)? Or do you want to hand over that job to Google?
A local search in Lisp. (using cl-ppcre of course ;-)
Marc
"Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> wrote
[...]
> The third step, once the structure is defined, will be to fill all this.
> (The common-lisp.net maintainers are already ok to automatically sync the
> Directory with the libraries in common-lisp.net.)
I don't know if I have been clear enough, but the Directory is different
from LinkIt. It is a more structured and permanent structure. LinkIt is more
for the new and/or lisp related news links.
Marc
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:36:09 +0100, Marc Battyani
<·············@fractalconcept.com> wrote:
>
> OK so what are your suggestions for step 1 (categories) and 2
> (descriptions)?
>
> Marc
>
>
OK. I suggest you fill it..
If you need help I'm here..
John
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Marc Battyani wrote:
> So what's your ideas for the other root categories ?
I would suggest that we stop and take a step back. A directory of
Common Lisp libraries and implementations can serve several needs and I
hope we can take time to make sure we serve as many as makes sense.
Personally, I would like it if the directory could replace the cliki as
the destination for asdf-install's mechanism to query where a package's
downloadable files are. If we use care we can make sure that we make
this general enough for mk:defsystem or whatever might come in the
future.
I would like the directory to hold information about different
versions/releases of the same software package. For packages with .asd
files, it could parse these files to figure out dependencies, the
current maintainer's email address, license, etc. This gives us a good
bit of meta-information to provide to people browsing the directory.
Arthur Lemmens, I believe, pointed out the importance of comments so
that people can leave comments about what works and what doesn't;
perhaps even tied to specifiec versions/releases. Of course, the
software could be tied to categories to make browsing the directory
easy.
Perhaps the directory could serve as a site to upload software so we
don't have to depend on sundry personal and institutional websites
which go up and down at inconvenient times; if we take this path we
must make sure that it's convenient enough for the publishers of
software to do just this.
An announce mailinglist (probably in a daily digest) should be
available so people who are looking for a continous update of software
available can get this without having to open a damned browser and
click around. This should probably be granual enough that one could
pick a specific piece of software to monitor. An RSS feed of the same
should be available so planet.lisp.org users could subscribe and get a
quick daily - or whatever - update of which packages were released.
Information on which implementations libraries run on would of course
be very useful; users could browse software available for their
implementation, only; same for asdf-install. John Wiseman's latest
entry on lemonodor.com (the one about failing asdf-installs) is
interesting; the directory could run a nightly cronjob which did this
very thing: try to install the packages available and make sure they at
least load correctly (and perhaps down the line use asdf's test-op or
something more generic but similar).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that someone (I'll be happy to but
not for another three or four weeks) will have to sit down and write a
design specification for this that documents the interfaces. Then the
potential users should be sought out for comments; especially those
working on asdf-installs and the like to make sure that the directory
can work with those tools.
Erik.
"Erik Enge" <·········@gmail.com> wrote
> Marc Battyani wrote:
> > So what's your ideas for the other root categories ?
>
> I would suggest that we stop and take a step back. A directory of
> Common Lisp libraries and implementations can serve several needs and I
> hope we can take time to make sure we serve as many as makes sense.
>
> Personally, I would like it if the directory could replace the cliki as
> the destination for asdf-install's mechanism to query where a package's
> downloadable files are. If we use care we can make sure that we make
> this general enough for mk:defsystem or whatever might come in the
> future.
Yes.
> I would like the directory to hold information about different
> versions/releases of the same software package. For packages with .asd
> files, it could parse these files to figure out dependencies, the
> current maintainer's email address, license, etc. This gives us a good
> bit of meta-information to provide to people browsing the directory.
Yes.
> Arthur Lemmens, I believe, pointed out the importance of comments so
> that people can leave comments about what works and what doesn't;
> perhaps even tied to specifiec versions/releases. Of course, the
> software could be tied to categories to make browsing the directory
> easy.
Yes. It's already done. All the pages accept comments from registered users.
These comments can be edited and/or removed by the maintainers.
> Perhaps the directory could serve as a site to upload software so we
> don't have to depend on sundry personal and institutional websites
> which go up and down at inconvenient times; if we take this path we
> must make sure that it's convenient enough for the publishers of
> software to do just this.
OK.
> An announce mailinglist (probably in a daily digest) should be
> available so people who are looking for a continous update of software
> available can get this without having to open a damned browser and
> click around. This should probably be granual enough that one could
> pick a specific piece of software to monitor. An RSS feed of the same
> should be available so planet.lisp.org users could subscribe and get a
> quick daily - or whatever - update of which packages were released.
OK. I've already started to look at RSS feeds. People will be able to
subscribe to RSS feeds at any level.
> Information on which implementations libraries run on would of course
> be very useful;
It's on the way.
>users could browse software available for their
> implementation, only; same for asdf-install. John Wiseman's latest
> entry on lemonodor.com (the one about failing asdf-installs) is
> interesting; the directory could run a nightly cronjob which did this
> very thing: try to install the packages available and make sure they at
> least load correctly (and perhaps down the line use asdf's test-op or
> something more generic but similar).
uh? Seems rather hard to do. But if there are volunteers, the results can be
integrated in the directory.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that someone (I'll be happy to but
> not for another three or four weeks) will have to sit down and write a
> design specification for this that documents the interfaces.
3 to 4 week is to long if we don't want to break the momentum ;-)
So we should start now even with a poorly defined one as long as it works.
> Then the
> potential users should be sought out for comments; especially those
> working on asdf-installs and the like to make sure that the directory
> can work with those tools.
For me, the tools for parsing and extracting the meta-information from the
packages are independent from the repository itself. They could be run on
common-lisp.net for instance and then feeded to the directory (no xml, just
sexpr of course ;-)
Marc
"Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
> The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
> http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
[...]
> Now to go on, the first step is to define the category tree. So let's do it
> (in a breadth first way rather than depth first at least for the first 1 or
> 2 levels)
Any ideas from the category trees of Freshmeat and SourceForge? Too
much fine-grained? What about Common-Lisp.net's current categories?
http://common-lisp.net/projects.shtml
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://wiki.alu.org/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools:
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- CFFI: Foreign Function Interface
"Paolo Amoroso" <·······@mclink.it> wrote
> "Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
>
> > The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
> > http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
> [...]
> > Now to go on, the first step is to define the category tree. So let's do
it
> > (in a breadth first way rather than depth first at least for the first 1
or
> > 2 levels)
>
> Any ideas from the category trees of Freshmeat and SourceForge? Too
> much fine-grained? What about Common-Lisp.net's current categories?
>
> http://common-lisp.net/projects.shtml
It can be a starting point for the librairy categories, but it's not enough.
Marc
In article <································@giganews.com>,
"Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> wrote:
> I've been told that I wasn't explicit enough so here are a few precisions:
>
> The Common Lisp Directory is integrated into LinkIt and is here:
> http://linkit.fractalconcept.com/asp//html/root-dir.html
>
> You can also just go to http://linkit.fractalconcept.com and click on "The
> Common Lisp Directory" link. (people can think that it's the page title so I
> should change it for something more explicit)
>
> Once you are there you can see that I've added a few categories like
> "implementations", etc. as an example.
>
> Now to go on, the first step is to define the category tree. So let's do it
> (in a breadth first way rather than depth first at least for the first 1 or
> 2 levels)
>
> So what's your ideas for the other root categories ?
>
> The second step will be to define the objects that will be linked to those
> categories (i.e. descriptions for libraries, documents, tutorials, etc.)
>
> The third step, once the structure is defined, will be to fill all this.
> (The common-lisp.net maintainers are already ok to automatically sync the
> Directory with the libraries in common-lisp.net.)
>
> OK so what are your suggestions for step 1 (categories) and 2
> (descriptions)?
>
> Marc
The links (URLs) are looking alien to me. I would prefer to see
simpler URLs.
Marc Battyani schrieb:
> OK so what are your suggestions for step 1 (categories) and 2
> (descriptions)?
documents, tutorials, papers, examples, hints
mathematics, university stuff (generic, ai, robots, neuronal)
historical things (not longer maintained), older source
experimental, projects to sign in, plans, discuss
editors, tools, utilities, (source-examples -everywhere), X
games, fun apps, sellers progs
where to get help online, lisp-chatrooms, newbies-corner,
conferences, meetings, events
not realy Lisp but lisp-like things, emulators
Media, mainstreams,
mentors page! (pages) (like hall of frame)
ineresting code not lisp (-the rest)
stefan