Hy,
I guess I could call myself a newbie with Lisp.
Basically I'm doing a lot of Java/Jython lately but I'm planning on a
rather large project and I would like to use lisp.
I did enjoy lisp while learning it/findind some uses for it but never
found a market so java it was.
Returning to my question: what lisp version has multithreading and a
good GUI toolkit ?
The program I'm thiking about will be basically a Windows one so
multiplatform isn't a big rule but it never hurts.
Possible embedding with .NET family would also be nice (move the gui
there).
I will also be thankfull for any other advices you have on the
transition from my former languages to full Lisp (like finding other
good lisp people, convincing the boss) -- but the technical ones would
also be great.
Thanks,
Emilian
PS: Something without a $$ licence would be nice.
···················@gmail.com wrote:
> Hy,
>
> I guess I could call myself a newbie with Lisp.
>
> Basically I'm doing a lot of Java/Jython lately but I'm planning on a
> rather large project and I would like to use lisp.
>
> I did enjoy lisp while learning it/findind some uses for it but never
> found a market so java it was.
>
> Returning to my question: what lisp version has multithreading and a
> good GUI toolkit ?
>
> The program I'm thiking about will be basically a Windows one so
> multiplatform isn't a big rule but it never hurts.
>
> Possible embedding with .NET family would also be nice (move the gui
> there).
>
> I will also be thankfull for any other advices you have on the
> transition from my former languages to full Lisp (like finding other
> good lisp people, convincing the boss) -- but the technical ones would
> also be great.
>
> Thanks,
> Emilian
>
> PS: Something without a $$ licence would be nice.
>
I do not know anything about multithreading, otherwise I think you have
described Lispworks pretty well. And it is multiplatform.
kt
--
Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to
state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
Kenny Tilton wrote:
<nothing about Cells-GTK or Cello>
This your second post today that is answering some question about Lisp
GUIs and didn't mention Cells-GTK or Cello. Are you feeling a bit under
the weather? Why do you not have your usual enthusiasm for Cells?
-- MJF
M Jared Finder wrote:
> Kenny Tilton wrote:
>
> <nothing about Cells-GTK or Cello>
>
> This your second post today that is answering some question about Lisp
> GUIs and didn't mention Cells-GTK...
Oops. Forgot all about that! I did a bit of work to UFFI-ize it, but it
was never really my baby, and now others are maintaining it and I guess
it has slipped below my personal radar. But...
yes. cells-gtk is a good solution. someone using it who I guess also
knew Lispworks's CAPI said GTk (hence cells-gtk) was better looking,
fwiw. And cells-gtk lets you use anything from AllegroCL to LW to CLisp
to CMUCL and its ilk.
>... or Cello.
Not Ready For Prime Time. I will be using it in a commercial project,
but that still will not produce doc or make it newby-friendly.
> Are you feeling a bit under
> the weather?
Worse. The Open Source Fairy is dead. A moment of silence, please.
> Why do you not have your usual enthusiasm for Cells?
Recall that Cells is just the dataflow hack driving Cells-Gtk and Cello
guis, as Adam is to Eve over at Adobe. These folks wanted GUIs (and I
forgot about Cells-Gtk!!).
Hawking Cells served to help others who might adopt it, or to drive
folks to help with related packages in the grand tradition of open
source. Current focus is proprietary software and keeping tech
advantages to myself. ie, No more "Mr Nice Guy".
That said, it looks as if this Fairy will be making one last gasp on
c-l.net before slipping under. Watch this space.
kt
--
Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to
state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
>"I do not know anything about multithreading, otherwise I think you
have
>described Lispworks pretty well. And it is multiplatform. "
For commercial apps, Lispworks is quite expensive.
> Practical Common Lisp
> http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book
Thanks, I already have downloaded that for quite some time and I've
read it.
···················@gmail.com wrote:
>>"I do not know anything about multithreading, otherwise I think you
>
> have
>
>>described Lispworks pretty well. And it is multiplatform. "
>
>
> For commercial apps, Lispworks is quite expensive.
?? Which commercial apps are cheaper?
Anyway, how much are you willing to spend?
kt
--
Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to
state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: Gui/multithreaded lisp version
Date:
Message-ID: <u64ybp0vo.fsf@news.dtpq.com>
···················@gmail.com writes:
> >"I do not know anything about multithreading, otherwise I think you
> > have described Lispworks pretty well. And it is multiplatform. "
>
> For commercial apps, Lispworks is quite expensive.
Lispworks allows you deliver an unlimited number of applications
without any additional license fee.
You just buy your development environment, which is either
Lispworks Professional or Lispworks Enterprise, and there is
no additional charge. This is for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X.
(It might be different for DEC OSF/1, HP-UX, and Solaris.)
The relevant difference between Professional and Enterprise,
as far as I can tell, is that Enterprise has CORBA, and an
expert system toolkit/shell (including Prolog and OPS chainers,
rule frameworks, etc.) Enterprise also features an SQL interface
for ODBC and Oracle, but there are equivalent third-party free
libraries that you can use with any edition of Lispworks.
The price for Lispworks Professional is in the same ballpark as
the price of development packages like MS Visual Studio .NET 2003,
Macromedia Studio MX 2004, or Delphi 2005 Pro. Lispworks Enterprise
costs nearly three times as much, but that's still less than, say,
Borland JBuilder 2005 Enterprise
I think you could recoup your investment in Lispworks Professional by
selling 1-20 copies of your application. (Or, consider than at typical
consulting rates, Lispworks pays for itself in under one week).
>>>>> "ebp" == emilian bold public <···················@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
ebp> For commercial apps, Lispworks is quite expensive.
Their prices are available online:
http://www.lispworks.com/buy/prices.html
While not pocket change, I don't think those prices are expensive if you
are developing a commercial product. What would be not-so-expensive
for you?
cheers,
BM
> http://www.weitz.de/rdnzl/
> http://foil.sourceforge.net/
Very usefull links.
About the license part, indeed no commercial apps are cheap, but I
expected free solutions.
I mean, the reason I did till now Java (recently also Jython) was that
I mainly didn't have to care about licenses (as in payable licenses).
Python and wxWindows are also free and opensource and wxWindows seems
ok on the GUI part.
Christopher C. Stacy is right, I could probably get the money back if
my app gets on the market and some people buy it. But that's a long
way.
I'm trying first to find a good free solution and if the program
reaches a state where I say that it's worth getting lispworks (with a
proprietary gui toolkit I assume) then so be it.
So far it's also an issue for me of
- finding a good lisp(scheme?) version,
- embedding it with .NET
- see how much of the code should be passed onto the lisp and onto the
.net part (possibly remove .net altogether?)
Basically lisp should allow me to code my project but also to allow
users to extend it. Perfect scripting language.
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: Gui/multithreaded lisp version
Date:
Message-ID: <uhdhu21tw.fsf@news.dtpq.com>
···················@gmail.com writes:
> I'm trying first to find a good free solution and if the program
> reaches a state where I say that it's worth getting lispworks (with a
> proprietary gui toolkit I assume) then so be it.
Use the free trial version for learning and experimenting,
and once you get your program going and need to deliver
it to a customer, buy the real thing.
···················@gmail.com writes:
> About the license part, indeed no commercial apps are cheap, but I
> expected free solutions.
>
> I mean, the reason I did till now Java (recently also Jython) was that
> I mainly didn't have to care about licenses (as in payable licenses).
> Python and wxWindows are also free and opensource and wxWindows seems
> ok on the GUI part.
If you're satisfied with that, I don't know what to say. But since
you're here, I assume you're looking for something better. For
anything outside the mainstream, you can't expect it to have all the
niceties you want, and run on Windows, and be free. Any two of those
is reasonable, though. For-free development tends to happen on
platforms that people enjoy hacking on for fun; Unix, OS X, not so
much Windows.
That said, you could try the personal edition, or ask for an
evaluation version of Lispworks Professional or Enterprise. You could
also check out Corman CL, which is a yet-lower priced Lisp on MS
Windows.
···················@gmail.com writes:
> I guess I could call myself a newbie with Lisp.
[...]
> I will also be thankfull for any other advices you have on the
> transition from my former languages to full Lisp (like finding other
You may check this newly published book, which is also available
online.
Practical Common Lisp
http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (see also http://clrfi.alu.org):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
···················@gmail.com writes:
> Possible embedding with .NET family would also be nice (move the gui
> there).
http://www.weitz.de/rdnzl/
http://foil.sourceforge.net/
Andras