I just finished the final conversions to my homebrew markup scheme
from of the RTF files I made from the Word files that Apress made from
the Framemaker files of the final text of Practical Common Lisp. So
now the chapters online at
<http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/>
are as good as it gets. It is possible that I introduced errors during
the conversion as a certain amount of hand tweaking was required. And
there may, of course, be errors in the book itself. So if you notice
any error, large or small, in either the online version or the print
version (coming April 11th[1]), feel free to send mail to
····@gigamonkeys.com about it.
Also, feel free to link to the above url from wherever, tell it to all
your friends, scribble it the walls of comp sci department bathrooms,
and generally spread the word. And, of course, if you really want to
stick it to the lisp doubters *cough*O'Reilly*cough* run out and buy
as many copies as you can carry home when it comes out. ;-)
-Peter
[1] April 11th is--I'm told--the "warehouse day". I'm not sure exactly
what the relation between that date and when booksellers actually get
it is. However, if they don't get it on the 11th, it shouldn't be too
much after that.
--
Peter Seibel ·····@gigamonkeys.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
From: Iwan van der Kleyn
Subject: Re: Practical Common Lisp final text online!
Date:
Message-ID: <425247E8.9040104@none.net>
Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
(finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will you
put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your examples
into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running the code I
find syntax colouring invaluable.˙
Regards,
Iwan van der Kleyn
Iwan van der Kleyn <····@none.net> writes:
> Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
> (finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will
> you put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your
> examples into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running
> the code I find syntax colouring invaluable.˙
Yes. I'm working on that. (actually I'm working on a Lisp in a Box
distro which will include the example code from the book) and hope to
have it ready by the official April 11th publication date.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@gigamonkeys.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:50:55 GMT, <·····@gigamonkeys.com> wrote:
> Iwan van der Kleyn <····@none.net> writes:
>
>> Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
>> (finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will
>> you put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your
>> examples into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running
>> the code I find syntax colouring invaluable.?
>
> Yes. I'm working on that. (actually I'm working on a Lisp in a Box
> distro which will include the example code from the book) and hope to
> have it ready by the official April 11th publication date.
Oh? The CD is not included with the book?
--
Everyman has three hearts;
one to show the world, one to show friends, and one only he knows.
GP lisper <········@CloudDancer.com> writes:
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:50:55 GMT, <·····@gigamonkeys.com> wrote:
>> Iwan van der Kleyn <····@none.net> writes:
>>
>>> Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
>>> (finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will
>>> you put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your
>>> examples into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running
>>> the code I find syntax colouring invaluable.?
>>
>> Yes. I'm working on that. (actually I'm working on a Lisp in a Box
>> distro which will include the example code from the book) and hope to
>> have it ready by the official April 11th publication date.
>
> Oh? The CD is not included with the book?
No there is no CD. I probably mentioned a CD in early drafts when I
thought there was going to be one but hopefully all those references
are gone now since Apress is getting away (wisely I think) from
including CDs--they are expensive to produce and mostly just become
instantly obsolete.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@gigamonkeys.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:59:16 +0000, Peter Seibel wrote:
> No there is no CD. I probably mentioned a CD in early drafts when I
> thought there was going to be one but hopefully all those references
> are gone now since Apress is getting away (wisely I think) from
> including CDs--they are expensive to produce and mostly just become
> instantly obsolete.
Ah, finally a wise publisher! I've loads of old CDs filled with ancient
versions of <your favorite app here> at home. There was a time a book
without a CD wouldn't sell :-/
And then there is that bunch of book with ripped back cover from failed
attempts to free it from the CD envelope (it really gets in the way when
reading in an armchair).
RalfD
> -Peter
On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:59:16 GMT, <·····@gigamonkeys.com> wrote:
>
>
> GP lisper <········@CloudDancer.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:50:55 GMT, <·····@gigamonkeys.com> wrote:
>>> Iwan van der Kleyn <····@none.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
>>>> (finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will
>>>> you put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your
>>>> examples into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running
>>>> the code I find syntax colouring invaluable.?
>>>
>>> Yes. I'm working on that. (actually I'm working on a Lisp in a Box
>>> distro which will include the example code from the book) and hope to
>>> have it ready by the official April 11th publication date.
>>
>> Oh? The CD is not included with the book?
>
> No there is no CD. I probably mentioned a CD in early drafts when I
> thought there was going to be one but hopefully all those references
> are gone now since Apress is getting away (wisely I think) from
> including CDs--they are expensive to produce and mostly just become
> instantly obsolete.
Yes, that's right. Now that you mention it, I remember that CDs in a
book actually annoy me, since I don't want to pay that extra cost.
--
Everyman has three hearts;
one to show the world, one to show friends, and one only he knows.
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIFRoaWVtZQ==?=
Subject: Re: Practical Common Lisp final text online!
Date:
Message-ID: <d2v79l$uc2$1@ulric.tng.de>
Peter Seibel schrieb:
> Iwan van der Kleyn <····@none.net> writes:
>
>
>>Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
>>(finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will
>>you put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your
>>examples into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running
>>the code I find syntax colouring invaluable.˙
>
>
> Yes. I'm working on that. (actually I'm working on a Lisp in a Box
> distro which will include the example code from the book) and hope to
> have it ready by the official April 11th publication date.
If possible you could add (for the Windows version) the tutorial for
emacs to your LispBox.
André
--
André Thieme <······························@justmail.de> writes:
> Peter Seibel schrieb:
>> Iwan van der Kleyn <····@none.net> writes:
>>
>>>Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
>>>(finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will
>>>you put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your
>>>examples into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running
>>>the code I find syntax colouring invaluable.˙
>> Yes. I'm working on that. (actually I'm working on a Lisp in a Box
>> distro which will include the example code from the book) and hope to
>> have it ready by the official April 11th publication date.
>
> If possible you could add (for the Windows version) the tutorial for
> emacs to your LispBox.
You mean the regular emacs tutorial--that'll be there as it's part of
Emacs.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@gigamonkeys.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIFRoaWVtZQ==?=
Subject: Re: Practical Common Lisp final text online!
Date:
Message-ID: <d33b28$c6u$1@ulric.tng.de>
Peter Seibel schrieb:
> André Thieme <······························@justmail.de> writes:
>
>
>>Peter Seibel schrieb:
>>
>>>Iwan van der Kleyn <····@none.net> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Peter, congratulations. The result is excelent. I am hopping to
>>>>(finally :-) get my copy through Amazon soon. Question though: will
>>>>you put the source code (the Lisp code) online? I can't wait your
>>>>examples into Emacs. Apart from the convenience of actually running
>>>>the code I find syntax colouring invaluable.˙
>>>
>>>Yes. I'm working on that. (actually I'm working on a Lisp in a Box
>>>distro which will include the example code from the book) and hope to
>>>have it ready by the official April 11th publication date.
>>
>>If possible you could add (for the Windows version) the tutorial for
>>emacs to your LispBox.
>
>
> You mean the regular emacs tutorial--that'll be there as it's part of
> Emacs.
Yes, that's what I meant.
A friend of mine became curious about CL after my explanations.
I gave him the url to your book plus a link to the "Lisp in a Box"
project. Unfortunately he never worked with emacs before and when he
wanted to go through the tutorial we found out it is not included.
André
--
I used the book to learn about packages recently, and liked it. It
tells you what you need to know.
I just pre-ordered a copy on amazon.com. They said the shipping
estimate was June 10.
···············@yahoo.com writes:
> I used the book to learn about packages recently, and liked it. It
> tells you what you need to know.
>
> I just pre-ordered a copy on amazon.com. They said the shipping
> estimate was June 10.
So that estimate is almost certainly wrong. At least I hope so--I'm
supposed to be getting my copies from the printer any day now.
-Peter
--
Peter Seibel ·····@gigamonkeys.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
···············@yahoo.com writes:
> I used the book to learn about packages recently, and liked it. It
> tells you what you need to know.
>
> I just pre-ordered a copy on amazon.com. They said the shipping
> estimate was June 10.
I preordered one from amazon.co.uk a little while ago. They still say
it's "hard-to-find" (I've tried a couple of times to tell them that it
hasn't yet been printed). I notice that I can apparently buy a used
copy for from �31.27.
···············@yahoo.com wrote:
> I used the book to learn about packages recently, and liked it. It
> tells you what you need to know.
>
> I just pre-ordered a copy on amazon.com. They said the shipping
> estimate was June 10.
Two month backorder? Pretty much what I have been projecting. This is
going to kill Ron when he has to admit I was right about Lisp not
needing a new name.
:)
kenny
--
Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to
state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
In article <·······················@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> ···············@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I used the book to learn about packages recently, and liked it. It
> > tells you what you need to know.
> >
> > I just pre-ordered a copy on amazon.com. They said the shipping
> > estimate was June 10.
>
> Two month backorder? Pretty much what I have been projecting. This is
> going to kill Ron when he has to admit I was right about Lisp not
> needing a new name.
Bah. If we'd gotten it a better name there'd be a six month backlog by
now.
;-)
rg
Ron Garret wrote:
> In article <·······················@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
> Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>···············@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>I used the book to learn about packages recently, and liked it. It
>>>tells you what you need to know.
>>>
>>>I just pre-ordered a copy on amazon.com. They said the shipping
>>>estimate was June 10.
>>
>>Two month backorder? Pretty much what I have been projecting. This is
>>going to kill Ron when he has to admit I was right about Lisp not
>>needing a new name.
>
>
> Bah. If we'd gotten it a better name there'd be a six month backlog by
> now.
>
> ;-)
That's the spirit! No defeat, no surrender!!
:)
So whaddya think? Things looking up for Lisp? Once more into the breach
at JPL?
kenny
--
Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to
state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
In article <·······················@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> So whaddya think? Things looking up for Lisp?
As Carl Sagan once said, prophecy is a lost art.
> Once more into the breach at JPL?
I've been on leave from JPL since last November, and the chances that I
(or Lisp) will be returning seem quite slim at the moment.
rg
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 03:13:21 GMT, Peter Seibel <·····@gigamonkeys.com>
wrote:
>Also, feel free to link to the above url from wherever, tell it to all
>your friends, scribble it the walls of comp sci department bathrooms,
>and generally spread the word. And, of course, if you really want to
>stick it to the lisp doubters *cough*O'Reilly*cough* run out and buy
>as many copies as you can carry home when it comes out. ;-)
Pre-ordered my copy last month. Thanks for writing the book!
--
adamnospamaustin.rr.com
s/nospam/c\./
I am going through the on line version right now and I like its pace. I am
using it in tandem with Paul's Ansi Common Lisp and I feel I'm getting
somewhere. I will eventualy buy it because I think they complement each
other very well.
andrei
Andrei wrote:
> somewhere. I will eventualy buy it because I think they complement
each
> other very well.
Why do you say that? I'm deciding on a few books myself, and I was
looking at Paul's as well in addition to this one.
I'm a decent C++ developer as well as Python, but I'm dying to learn
Lisp. It's just so *different* and unnnatural feeling right now.
Lisp does stretch your mind at first. Rest assured that we all went
through that. But it's worth it. :-)
In addition to Seibel's book and the others mentioned in this group,
you could try Winston and Horn's _Lisp_. It is a college textbook
(MIT), and has more of the feel of a college text than many other Lisp
books. It has lots of exercises, and the material is carefully broken
down.
Right,
That's what I'm saying. I think they are both very good. What I found was
that, for a begginer, Paul's Common Lisp is
a little too alert and this is where Practical Common Lisp comes in (at
least the first part, I didn't get into the more
advanced concepts). What I was saying was that I feel I am making progress
in learning Lisp and I will buy Peter's Practical Common Lisp also.
I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.
andrei
"jonathon" <···········@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
·····························@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Andrei wrote:
> > somewhere. I will eventualy buy it because I think they complement
> each
> > other very well.
>
> Why do you say that? I'm deciding on a few books myself, and I was
> looking at Paul's as well in addition to this one.
>
> I'm a decent C++ developer as well as Python, but I'm dying to learn
> Lisp. It's just so *different* and unnnatural feeling right now.
>
jonathon wrote:
> Andrei wrote:
>
>>somewhere. I will eventualy buy it because I think they complement
>
> each
>
>>other very well.
>
>
> Why do you say that? I'm deciding on a few books myself, and I was
> looking at Paul's as well in addition to this one.
>
> I'm a decent C++ developer as well as Python, but I'm dying to learn
> Lisp. It's just so *different* and unnnatural feeling right now.
>
How far along are you? I always tell people that, at one level, Lisp is
like any other computer language. So I am curious as to how long it
takes for the surface novelty (if I am right) to disappear.
Hmmm. But you say you are comfortable in Python, too. So... is it just
the parentheses?
kenny
--
Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to
state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> writes:
> How far along are you? I always tell people that, at one level, Lisp
> is like any other computer language. So I am curious as to how long it
> takes for the surface novelty (if I am right) to disappear.
IIRC, it took me about two weeks to really start getting over the
parens. For some reason, LET was a bit of a hurdle for me as well,
but now I find it completely natural.
It wasn't until yesterday that I even knew the macros PROG1 and PROG2
existed so I missed out on the SBCL April Fool's joke about PROG2
(apparantly referring to the typo in the hyperspec).
Lispers are right though. After a while, you stop seeing the
parentheses.
--
An ideal world is left as an excercise to the reader.
--- Paul Graham, On Lisp 8.1
From: André Thieme
Subject: Re: Practical Common Lisp final text online!
Date:
Message-ID: <d30avd$sp5$1@ulric.tng.de>
David Steuber schrieb:
> IIRC, it took me about two weeks to really start getting over the
> parens. For some reason, LET was a bit of a hurdle for me as well,
> but now I find it completely natural.
This seems to be pretty common. Everyone is talking about these two
weeks. There are enough aspects of CL that I don't understand yet. But
with the parens I never had big problems. I think after 30 minutes I got
used to them (no, I don't want to show off).
Andr�
--
On 2005-04-06 06:19:33 +0200, David Steuber <·····@david-steuber.com> said:
> Lispers are right though. After a while, you stop seeing the
> parentheses.
That is true, after a few months they become a second nature. Now it
sometimes happens that I enter search requests at google starting with
a parenthesis ;)
On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:46:31 GMT, <·······@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> How far along are you? I always tell people that, at one level, Lisp is
> like any other computer language. So I am curious as to how long it
> takes for the surface novelty (if I am right) to disappear.
A few months in my case. One day I realized that lisp looked
perfectly normal and I needed to consciously notice the parentheses.
I was writing original code shortly thereafter....but I remain a
student.
"Lisp, the last language you'll never learn"
--
Everyman has three hearts;
one to show the world, one to show friends, and one only he knows.
Kenny,
I'm right around functions, data types. I think I'm passed the
parentheses:). Actually they never bothered me.
I've just followed Paul's advice: don't try to read the parentheses, but the
indentation. It worked for me.
Jonathon is the Python guy... I *did*, well ... I still do java.
andrei
"Kenny Tilton" <·······@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
····························@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> jonathon wrote:
>
>> Andrei wrote:
>>
>>>somewhere. I will eventualy buy it because I think they complement
>>
>> each
>>
>>>other very well.
>>
>>
>> Why do you say that? I'm deciding on a few books myself, and I was
>> looking at Paul's as well in addition to this one.
>>
>> I'm a decent C++ developer as well as Python, but I'm dying to learn
>> Lisp. It's just so *different* and unnnatural feeling right now.
>>
>
> How far along are you? I always tell people that, at one level, Lisp is
> like any other computer language. So I am curious as to how long it takes
> for the surface novelty (if I am right) to disappear.
>
> Hmmm. But you say you are comfortable in Python, too. So... is it just the
> parentheses?
>
> kenny
>
> --
> Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
> Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
>
> "Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to state
> that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
>
Kenny Tilton wrote:
> > I'm a decent C++ developer as well as Python, but I'm dying to
learn
> > Lisp. It's just so *different* and unnnatural feeling right now.
> >
>
> How far along are you? I always tell people that, at one level, Lisp
is
> like any other computer language. So I am curious as to how long it
> takes for the surface novelty (if I am right) to disappear.
>
> Hmmm. But you say you are comfortable in Python, too. So... is it
just
> the parentheses?
I am playing with the first 'practical' tutorial in the book. I guess
the part that I'm still working on is the functional nature and well as
the macros. Not to mention learning all the built-in functions.
+ Peter Seibel <·····@gigamonkeys.com>:
| [1] April 11th is--I'm told--the "warehouse day".
Funny, on Amazon UK they already claim to have a used copy available -
"like new", from superbookdeals. I ended up ordering a real new one,
also from superbookdeals. In the email confirmation I got, it says
The seller has agreed to dispatch by 07.04.2005.
(which does /not/ mean July 4, this side of the pond).
We'll see what we shall see.
--
* Harald Hanche-Olsen <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/>
- Debating gives most of us much more psychological satisfaction
than thinking does: but it deprives us of whatever chance there is
of getting closer to the truth. -- C.P. Snow