For anyone who is interested, I finally managed to get my Symbolics
3620 running after it was damaged during shipping. The details can
be found on the web at:
http://home.hakuhale.net/rbc/symbolics/
Enjoy,
--Bruce
In article <··············@Robert-Carletons-Computer.local>,
Robert Carleton <···@hakuhale.net> wrote:
> For anyone who is interested, I finally managed to get my Symbolics
> 3620 running after it was damaged during shipping. The details can
> be found on the web at:
>
> http://home.hakuhale.net/rbc/symbolics/
>
> Enjoy,
>
> --Bruce
Ha, you got it running. ;-) I would have given up already.
IMHO it is not easy to have the older 36xx machines
transported. The systems are very fragile (especially the console).
It is worthwile to keep those machines alive - like
you take care of some old historic CAR. People, be prepared to
invest lots of time and money. Additionally the 36xx machines
are LOUD (really LOUD) and power hungry (really). Same for
the XL series. For programming and experimentation
the MacIvory (II or better III) is MUCH better. For
a cool machine to show, get an NXP1000 - though for
programming, the MacIvory is better.
Hi Rainer,
Actually, the console wasn't the issue for me. I'm not sure what
Fedex did to my shipment, but we had to replace the SLB video card,
the LBUS boards and one drive. I know it's not the first thing that
Fedex has broken.
You are correct that owning a member of the 3600 family, is a bit like
having an old car. I did buy my 3620 because I wanted to tinker with
it, and it has the smallest CPU chassis of the 3600 family. I just
hope I spend more time tinkering with Genera, rather than with
hardware... Only time will tell. The upside of my troubleshooting
adventure, is that I feel pretty comfortable swapping boards in my
3620 now.
My MacIvory-II has been much less fussy in comparison. I would liked
to have found a MacIvory-III or NXP1000. I didn't see any available
at the time I was looking for an Ivory. Your NXP1000 is the only one
that I have found on the net so far. I've heard that there were only
around 200 of the NXP1000's produced.
Best regards,
--Bruce
Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> writes:
> In article <··············@Robert-Carletons-Computer.local>,
> Robert Carleton <···@hakuhale.net> wrote:
>
> > For anyone who is interested, I finally managed to get my Symbolics
> > 3620 running after it was damaged during shipping. The details can
> > be found on the web at:
> >
> > http://home.hakuhale.net/rbc/symbolics/
> >
> > Enjoy,
> >
> > --Bruce
>
> Ha, you got it running. ;-) I would have given up already.
>
> IMHO it is not easy to have the older 36xx machines
> transported. The systems are very fragile (especially the console).
> It is worthwile to keep those machines alive - like
> you take care of some old historic CAR. People, be prepared to
> invest lots of time and money. Additionally the 36xx machines
> are LOUD (really LOUD) and power hungry (really). Same for
> the XL series. For programming and experimentation
> the MacIvory (II or better III) is MUCH better. For
> a cool machine to show, get an NXP1000 - though for
> programming, the MacIvory is better.
In article <··············@Robert-Carletons-Computer.local>,
Robert Carleton <···@hakuhale.net> wrote:
> Hi Rainer,
>
> Actually, the console wasn't the issue for me. I'm not sure what
> Fedex did to my shipment, but we had to replace the SLB video card,
> the LBUS boards and one drive. I know it's not the first thing that
> Fedex has broken.
I guess it better be shipped with special packaging.
Looking at the original advertizing material
(http://lispm.dyndns.org/3620.html), the model is from
1986. With a 'single board processor'. ;-) Just one
board for the processor alone. 850 Watts max. Ouch.
Well, your model should be something like 18 years
old. The CP command "Show Machine Configuration" should
give you some infos on what's inside.
> You are correct that owning a member of the 3600 family, is a bit like
> having an old car. I did buy my 3620 because I wanted to tinker with
> it, and it has the smallest CPU chassis of the 3600 family. I just
> hope I spend more time tinkering with Genera, rather than with
> hardware... Only time will tell. The upside of my troubleshooting
> adventure, is that I feel pretty comfortable swapping boards in my
> 3620 now.
Collecting boards for these machines is another hobby. ;-)
There were quite a few different boards (IFU, Framebuffers, FPAs,
Memory, ...).
> My MacIvory-II has been much less fussy in comparison.
No wonder. Plus you can get cheap and relatively modern
parts (monitor, disks, ...) for it.
> I would liked
> to have found a MacIvory-III or NXP1000. I didn't see any available
> at the time I was looking for an Ivory. Your NXP1000 is the only one
> that I have found on the net so far. I've heard that there were only
> around 200 of the NXP1000's produced.
Interesting. Actually the NXP1000 is a really cool piece
of hardware. Really tiny (especially inside the pizza box)
compared to other machines. The processor board is not taking
up much space in the machine. I guess the size of the machine
is mostly so that you could put the large(r) ESDI disks inside.
I would have liked to see a version of it with keyboard/mouse
connectors and graphics card. That would have be a
great machine. Mine runs fine from a single Seagate SCSI disk
inside (no hassles with old ESDI disks). It also has just one
small fan for cooling. The only drawback is,
that the development environment is a bit "flaky" over X11.
I guess it could need a few better error handlers in some
places.
Rainer
>
> Best regards,
>
> --Bruce
>
> Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> writes:
>
> > In article <··············@Robert-Carletons-Computer.local>,
> > Robert Carleton <···@hakuhale.net> wrote:
> >
> > > For anyone who is interested, I finally managed to get my Symbolics
> > > 3620 running after it was damaged during shipping. The details can
> > > be found on the web at:
> > >
> > > http://home.hakuhale.net/rbc/symbolics/
> > >
> > > Enjoy,
> > >
> > > --Bruce
> >
> > Ha, you got it running. ;-) I would have given up already.
> >
> > IMHO it is not easy to have the older 36xx machines
> > transported. The systems are very fragile (especially the console).
> > It is worthwile to keep those machines alive - like
> > you take care of some old historic CAR. People, be prepared to
> > invest lots of time and money. Additionally the 36xx machines
> > are LOUD (really LOUD) and power hungry (really). Same for
> > the XL series. For programming and experimentation
> > the MacIvory (II or better III) is MUCH better. For
> > a cool machine to show, get an NXP1000 - though for
> > programming, the MacIvory is better.
Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> writes:
> In article <··············@Robert-Carletons-Computer.local>,
> Robert Carleton <···@hakuhale.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Rainer,
> >
> > Actually, the console wasn't the issue for me. I'm not sure what
> > Fedex did to my shipment, but we had to replace the SLB video card,
> > the LBUS boards and one drive. I know it's not the first thing that
> > Fedex has broken.
>
> I guess it better be shipped with special packaging.
>
> Looking at the original advertizing material
> (http://lispm.dyndns.org/3620.html), the model is from
> 1986. With a 'single board processor'. ;-) Just one
> board for the processor alone. 850 Watts max. Ouch.
> Well, your model should be something like 18 years
> old. The CP command "Show Machine Configuration" should
> give you some infos on what's inside.
>
> > You are correct that owning a member of the 3600 family, is a bit like
> > having an old car. I did buy my 3620 because I wanted to tinker with
> > it, and it has the smallest CPU chassis of the 3600 family. I just
> > hope I spend more time tinkering with Genera, rather than with
> > hardware... Only time will tell. The upside of my troubleshooting
> > adventure, is that I feel pretty comfortable swapping boards in my
> > 3620 now.
>
> Collecting boards for these machines is another hobby. ;-)
> There were quite a few different boards (IFU, Framebuffers, FPAs,
> Memory, ...).
>
> > My MacIvory-II has been much less fussy in comparison.
>
> No wonder. Plus you can get cheap and relatively modern
> parts (monitor, disks, ...) for it.
>
> > I would liked
> > to have found a MacIvory-III or NXP1000. I didn't see any available
> > at the time I was looking for an Ivory. Your NXP1000 is the only one
> > that I have found on the net so far. I've heard that there were only
> > around 200 of the NXP1000's produced.
>
> Interesting. Actually the NXP1000 is a really cool piece
> of hardware. Really tiny (especially inside the pizza box)
> compared to other machines. The processor board is not taking
> up much space in the machine. I guess the size of the machine
> is mostly so that you could put the large(r) ESDI disks inside.
> I would have liked to see a version of it with keyboard/mouse
> connectors and graphics card. That would have be a
> great machine. Mine runs fine from a single Seagate SCSI disk
> inside (no hassles with old ESDI disks). It also has just one
> small fan for cooling. The only drawback is,
> that the development environment is a bit "flaky" over X11.
> I guess it could need a few better error handlers in some
> places.
>
> Rainer
>
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > --Bruce
> >
> > Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> writes:
> >
> > > In article <··············@Robert-Carletons-Computer.local>,
> > > Robert Carleton <···@hakuhale.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > For anyone who is interested, I finally managed to get my Symbolics
> > > > 3620 running after it was damaged during shipping. The details can
> > > > be found on the web at:
> > > >
> > > > http://home.hakuhale.net/rbc/symbolics/
> > > >
> > > > Enjoy,
> > > >
> > > > --Bruce
> > >
> > > Ha, you got it running. ;-) I would have given up already.
> > >
> > > IMHO it is not easy to have the older 36xx machines
> > > transported. The systems are very fragile (especially the console).
> > > It is worthwile to keep those machines alive - like
> > > you take care of some old historic CAR. People, be prepared to
> > > invest lots of time and money. Additionally the 36xx machines
> > > are LOUD (really LOUD) and power hungry (really). Same for
> > > the XL series. For programming and experimentation
> > > the MacIvory (II or better III) is MUCH better. For
> > > a cool machine to show, get an NXP1000 - though for
> > > programming, the MacIvory is better.
Well, it turned out that the all the ESDI drives that DKS sent
survived shipping after all. I just booted up the 3620 off the dual
drives today. It's also running with 8MW of memory now.
I think that's the maximum memory configuration for a 3620. I have
not done a side by side comparison with my MacIvory, but the 3620
doesn't seem noticably slower than the MacIvory once Genera is booted.
I'm guessing that the larger memory configuration helps by minimizing
paging. The MacIvory is reported to by twice as fast, but only
provides 2.6MW of memory by comparison to the 3620's 8MW. The
MacIvory does has faster SCSI drives however.
It's also a little nicer using the Symbolics keyboard and the three
button mouse.
I should point out that DKS has bent over backwards to get the 3620
working after Fedex broke it. I didn't fix it by myself. My
experience with Symbolics is they definitely support what they sell.
Best regards,
--Bruce
Robert Carleton <···@hakuhale.net> writes:
> Actually, the console wasn't the issue for me. I'm not sure what
> Fedex did to my shipment, but we had to replace the SLB video card,
> the LBUS boards and one drive. I know it's not the first thing that
> Fedex has broken.
At least something still arrived. You would not want to know what the
Deutsche Post (now DHL) did to my parcel. :)
Regards,
--
____________________________
Julian Stecklina / _________________________/
________________/ /
\_________________/ LISP - truly beautiful
Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> writes:
> IMHO it is not easy to have the older 36xx machines
> transported. The systems are very fragile (especially the console).
When Symbolics was still in business, how were those machines
transported? Were damages frequent?
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (see also http://clrfi.alu.org):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:
> When Symbolics was still in business, how were those machines
> transported? Were damages frequent?
There was at least one protocol for packaging and shipping machines
that involved big containers and lengthy check lists. Pretty standard
stuff.
In article <··············@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it>,
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> wrote:
> Rainer Joswig <······@lisp.de> writes:
>
> > IMHO it is not easy to have the older 36xx machines
> > transported. The systems are very fragile (especially the console).
>
> When Symbolics was still in business, how were those machines
> transported? Were damages frequent?
It was basically the same way cabinets for mainframe computers were
transported. They were in large crates with lots of foam or bubble wrap
padding. This was standard shipping technology in those days, no
different from other large, fragile equipment. It's not so common these
days for computers, but I imagine things like electron microscopes and
other delicate lab equipment requires similar care in shipping.
And yes, damage wasn't uncommon. But IIRC, the PC boards were removed
from the cabinets when they were shipped, and put in separate crates
that were more sturdy. Disk drives were kept in the cabinets, but the
heads were parked so that jolts usually wouldn't cause problems. So the
most common damage was just minor dents to the cabinets, with no impact
on operation.
--
Barry Margolin, ······@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
Robert Carleton wrote:
> For anyone who is interested, I finally managed to get my
> Symbolics 3620 running after it was damaged during
> shipping. The details can be found on the web at:
>
> http://home.hakuhale.net/rbc/symbolics/
I've got Symbolics cards at the back of a cupboard.
one Processor 170393
two Memory 512KW 170002
six Color memory 170136
two NBS FEP-I/O 170495
I'm anxious to be rid of them. They have not been stored
with any care, so might have developed faults. Does anyone
want them enough to pay the postage?
Alan Crowe
Edinburgh
Scotland