Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> How do I say these (verbally):
>
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> rplaca
> rplacd
> nconc
Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL, ECL
MCL. I won't even try to say Xanalasys.
Chris Capel
"Lowell Kirsh" <······@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message
·················@mughi.cs.ubc.ca...
> Chris Capel wrote:
>> I won't even try to say Xanalasys.
>
> How about Zanalasis ?
The company name is Xanalys, and when they answer the phone, it's pronounced
like "Zanalis", with the accent on the first syllable.
Jim Bushnell
Chris Capel <······@iba.nktech.net> wrote:
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
See Muckle. :)
--
Karl A. Krueger <········@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped. s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews
In article <············@baldur.whoi.edu>, Karl A. Krueger wrote:
> Chris Capel <······@iba.nktech.net> wrote:
> > Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
>
> See Muckle. :)
>
Sea mussel?
--
Eric Daniel
Chris Capel wrote:
> As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL, ECL
> MCL. I won't even try to say Xanalasys.
It's Xanalys, and I bet it's pronounced Ksanalys (or some such).
--
Tyler: "How's that working out for you?"
Jack: "Great."
Tyler: "Keep it up, then."
Pascal Costanza wrote:
>
> Chris Capel wrote:
>
>> As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL,
>> ECL MCL. I won't even try to say Xanalasys.
>
> It's Xanalys, and I bet it's pronounced Ksanalys (or some such).
>
Naah. khanalys, with kh => "ch as in loch"
khhhhaaaaaanalys!
Chris Capel wrote:
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>
>
>>How do I say these (verbally):
>>
>>CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>rplaca
>>rplacd
>>nconc
>
>
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
As someone who has never heard it pronounced by
someone else, but uses it verbally all the time:
kuh-mukel
:)
--
Randall Randall <·······@randallsquared.com>
"And no practical definition of freedom would be complete
without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it
is the freedom upon which all the others are based."
- Terry Pratchett, _Going Postal_
Randall Randall <·······@randallsquared.com> writes:
> Chris Capel wrote:
> > Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> >
> >>How do I say these (verbally):
> >>
> >>CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> >>rplaca
> >>rplacd
> >>nconc
> > Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
>
> As someone who has never heard it pronounced by
> someone else, but uses it verbally all the time:
>
> kuh-mukel
That has the "virtue" of (potentially) rhyming with Pumuckl, a popular
cartoon character on German TV. Better than pronouncing it "comical",
I suppose.
--
Rob St. Amant
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~stamant
Chris Capel <······@iba.nktech.net> wrote in message news:<···············@corp.supernews.com>...
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
CMU has to be spelled out. But after that...
I play upon my CM ukelele
Begetting Lispy music ever daily.
From: Joe Marshall
Subject: Re: how to pronounce these names
Date:
Message-ID: <wtybn5pl.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>
Chris Capel <······@iba.nktech.net> writes:
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>
>> How do I say these (verbally):
>>
>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>> rplaca
>> rplacd
>> nconc
>
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
c'-MUCK-ell
On 2004-09-30 11:20, in article ············@ccs.neu.edu, "Joe Marshall"
<···@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
> Chris Capel <······@iba.nktech.net> writes:
>
>> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>>
>>> How do I say these (verbally):
>>>
>>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>> rplaca
>>> rplacd
>>> nconc
>>
>> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
>
> c'-MUCK-ell
Since I went to CMU, I call it cee-em-you cee-el
--jon
In article <·······················@comcast.net>,
Jon Boone <········@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 2004-09-30 11:20, in article ············@ccs.neu.edu, "Joe Marshall"
> <···@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Chris Capel <······@iba.nktech.net> writes:
> >>
> >> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
> >
> > c'-MUCK-ell
>
> Since I went to CMU, I call it cee-em-you cee-el
>
> --jon
Ditto. Although a classmate of mine who never had
much luck with the ladies and grew more and more bitter
during his four years in Pittsburgh would probably say:
"Call Me Ugly, See Ell"
On 2004-09-29 18:30:20 -0400, Chris Capel <······@iba.nktech.net> said:
> Any votes for CMUCL?
I've always thought that 'comical' would be a valid pronounciation, but
maybe not the one we want...
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:30:20 -0500, Chris Capel wrote:
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>> How do I say these (verbally):
>>
>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
kloss
>> rplaca
ar-plak-'ay
>> rplacd
ar-plak-'dee
>> nconc
'en-konk
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
see-em-you-see-ell
[But it'd be k'mookl, or k'muhkl, not k'moosl, if I was going to try
to pronounce it as a word...which I'm not :-)]
> As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL, ECL
> MCL.
Same.
> I won't even try to say Xanalasys.
It's "Xanalys", not "Xanalasys"; I pronounce it "'zanaliss" (but
presumably there is actually a correct pronunciation for this one --
how do people who work there pronounce it?)
--
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest -- Publilius Syrus
(setq reply-to
(concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(··@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))
Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> How do I say these (verbally):
>
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
"see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
latter sounds funny in German.)
> rplaca
"replace-a"
> rplacd
"replace-d"
> nconc
"enn-conc"
Pascal
--
Tyler: "How's that working out for you?"
Jack: "Great."
Tyler: "Keep it up, then."
"Pascal Costanza" <········@web.de> wrote in message
·················@newsreader2.netcologne.de...
>
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>
> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
> latter sounds funny in German.)
Funny. I have always pronounced this as simple see-ell-oh-ess. I do that
with most of the acronyms today.
SQL - ess-kew-ell vs 'sequel'
However, I "pronounce" FAQ as "fak".
Now, where this gets interesting is in things like news posts.
For example: "I need an interface to AN SQL server" vs "I need an interface
to A SQL server", or "Is there a FAQ" vs "Is there an FAQ".
Other than that, pronouce 'em as you like, it's mostly the same here on
USENET anyway :-).
Regards,
Will Hartung
(·····@msoft.com)
Will Hartung <·····@msoft.com> wrote:
> "Pascal Costanza" <········@web.de> wrote in message
>> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>> > How do I say these (verbally):
>> >
>> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>
>> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
>> latter sounds funny in German.)
>
> Funny. I have always pronounced this as simple see-ell-oh-ess. I do that
> with most of the acronyms today.
>
> SQL - ess-kew-ell vs 'sequel'
Archaically, "SEQUEL" was a database language that -preceded- SQL.
The PostgreSQL project insists on "Postgres-Q-L". People who say
"Post-Greh-Sequel" are -trying- to lose.
And "My-Sequel" sounds like "the follow-on to the book I wrote",
not a database server.
--
Karl A. Krueger <········@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped. s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews
"Karl A. Krueger" <········@example.edu> writes:
> The PostgreSQL project insists on "Postgres-Q-L". People who say
> "Post-Greh-Sequel" are -trying- to lose.
post-gres-kwul, though most people I know pronounce it "postgres"
> And "My-Sequel" sounds like "the follow-on to the book I wrote",
> not a database server.
mice-kwul
-dan
--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"
Karl A. Krueger <········@example.edu> wrote:
+---------------
| The PostgreSQL project insists on "Postgres-Q-L".
| People who say "Post-Greh-Sequel" are -trying- to lose.
+---------------
Perhaps, but I usually find myself saying "post-gres-kwell". ;-} ;-}
-Rob
-----
Rob Warnock <····@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607
In article <············@newsreader2.netcologne.de>,
Pascal Costanza <········@web.de> wrote:
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>
> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
> latter sounds funny in German.)
I've also heard both. The latter tends to be used when it's used as a
root of a longer word, e.g. CLOSify would be pronounced "kloss-i-fy".
>
> > rplaca
>
> "replace-a"
I've always heard ruh-plock-ah
>
> > rplacd
>
> "replace-d"
ruh-plock-dee
>
> > nconc
>
> "enn-conc"
Right.
--
Barry Margolin, ······@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
Pascal Costanza <········@web.de> writes:
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>> How do I say these (verbally):
>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>
> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
> latter sounds funny in German.)
We actually use "kloss" at work. It is quite unfunny. No one had the
idea to call it "Klo�" till now. ;)
Regards,
--
____________________________
Julian Stecklina / _________________________/
________________/ /
\_________________/ LISP - truly beautiful
Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
> How do I say these (verbally):
>
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> rplaca
> rplacd
> nconc
>
> ??
The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:
rplaca: [,ree'plakuh] or [,ruh'plakuh]
rplacd: [,ree'plakduh] or [,ruh'plakduh] or [,ree'plakdee] or [,ruh'plakdee]
But no entry for nconc.
Helmut.
From: Duane Rettig
Subject: Re: how to pronounce these names
Date:
Message-ID: <41xgk5hfv.fsf@franz.com>
Helmut Eller <········@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:
> Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
>
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> > rplaca
> > rplacd
> > nconc
> >
> > ??
>
> The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:
And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?
--
Duane Rettig ·····@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
Duane Rettig wrote:
> Helmut Eller <········@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:
>
>>Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
>>
>>
>>>How do I say these (verbally):
>>>
>>>CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>>rplaca
>>>rplacd
>>>nconc
>>>
>>>??
>>
>>The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:
>
> And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
>
> If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?
"Hyperspec" ;)
Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
"world wide web".
Pascal
--
Tyler: "How's that working out for you?"
Jack: "Great."
Tyler: "Keep it up, then."
Pascal Costanza wrote:
> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> "world wide web".
I saw someone suggesting "hexa-v".
--
Jens Axel Søgaard
On 2004-09-30 04:36:39 -0400, Pascal Costanza <········@web.de> said:
> I always find it very amusing when English speakers must say "double-u
> double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say "world wide web".
Or even "sextuple-U"
Pascal Costanza wrote:
>
> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> "world wide web".
>
Actually strikes me that at this stage that I might actually
write "worldwideweb.blah.com" if someone were to say to me
"world wide web dot blah dot com"...
I'm just sorry that the 90s campaign to convince everyone to switch
to web.blah.com didn't catch on. Though these days, blah.com usually
goes to the web page anyway.
> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> "world wide web".
I once heard a guy at LISA say "dub-dub-dub". I've used it since, and
found that everybody I've dealt with understands it just fine.
joelh
--
Joel Ray Holveck - ·····@piquan.org
Fourth law of programming:
Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped
Joel Ray Holveck <·····@piquan.org> writes:
> > Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> > abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> > say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> > "world wide web".
>
> I once heard a guy at LISA say "dub-dub-dub". I've used it since, and
> found that everybody I've dealt with understands it just fine.
I say "wuh wuh wuh".
--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:36:39 +0200, Pascal Costanza wrote:
>>> The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:
>> And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
>> If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?
see-ell-aitch-ess
> "Hyperspec" ;)
Yeah, or that :-)
> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> "world wide web".
I do, when it's an abbreviation (talking about the WWW) -- or more
often just "web" -- but as a literal (part of an address), I say
"double-ew double-ew double-ew" (or occasionally "hex-you")
And I don't pronounce the punctuation -- I read "http://foo.com" as
"aitch-tee-tee-pee foo com". Sounds strange when people start saying
"slash", "dot", etc. [Until relatively recently, when everyone
starting talking that way, I always associated pronouncing the
punctuation with clueless newbies]
But most people in NZ seem to say "dub dub dub" (which annoys the hell
out of me every time I hear it)
--
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest -- Publilius Syrus
(setq reply-to
(concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(··@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))
Duane Rettig <·····@franz.com> wrote:
> Helmut Eller <········@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:
> And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
> If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?
Clues?
--
Karl A. Krueger <········@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped. s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews
Karl A. Krueger <········@example.edu> wrote:
+---------------
| Duane Rettig <·····@franz.com> wrote:
| > Helmut Eller <········@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:
| > And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
| > If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?
|
| Clues?
+---------------
Nah, too confusing with CLUE.
-Rob
-----
Rob Warnock <····@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607
> How do I say these (verbally):
I learned Lisp in relative isolation, so my views may not reflect
mainstream usage. My pronunciations are probably shaped by my Texas
upbringing.
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
KLOSS with an "o" as in "boat". Almost like "close", but with a
voiceless s.
> rplaca
r*-PLAHK-uh (where * is a schwa).
> rplacd
r*-PLAHK-dee or r*-PLAHK-duh; I vary. I think I use the latter when
I'm concentrating the code (talking to myself), and the former when
I'm thinking about talking (such as when I'm showing somebody else
something).
But more often, I pronounce it "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".
> nconc
EN-kahnk
And, FWIW, I say "DEHF-var" and "dee-FUHN" not "DUH-fun" even though I
say "duh-FINE", "ksanalys", "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not
"Bach" (sorry Europe), "see-lisp", and spell out CMUCL and SBCL.
Cheers,
Piquan
--
Joel Ray Holveck - ·····@piquan.org
Fourth law of programming:
Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped
Joel Ray Holveck <·····@piquan.org> writes:
> [...]
> But more often, I pronounce [rplacd] "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".
(But only when the return value is ignored, I presume.)
> [...]
> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
pronunciation. Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
pronounce CDADDR...
---Vassil.
--
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com>
HOLLERITH's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.
Vassil Nikolov wrote:
>
> Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
> pronunciation.
AFAIK ANSI Forth actually did go to the trouble to specify the
pronunciation (or englishoid representation, anyway)
of each forth word that was not a direct english word:
http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpansf.htm
eg.
F~ => f-proximate
SFALIGN => s-f-align
['] => bracket-tick
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com> wrote:
> Joel Ray Holveck <·····@piquan.org> writes:
> Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
> pronunciation. Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
> pronounce CDADDR...
Coulda' deader.
--
Karl A. Krueger <········@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped. s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews
>> But more often, I pronounce [rplacd] "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".
> (But only when the return value is ignored, I presume.)
Good point.
>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
> Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
> pronunciation.
Y'know, now that I think about it, rms had a typist for a while when
he was having severe wrist problems. Maybe he has some opinions on
pronunciation. (He's got 'em on most everything else, so why not.)
> Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to pronounce
> CDADDR...
Me, I say "k*d-AH-d*-d*r", sounds similar to "cadaver".
joelh
--
Joel Ray Holveck - ·····@piquan.org
Fourth law of programming:
Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped
Joel Ray Holveck <·····@piquan.org> writes:
> [...]
>>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
>> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
>
> What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
---Vassil.
--
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com>
Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.
Vassil Nikolov wrote:
> >>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> >> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
> >
> > What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
>
> Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc
Gareth McCaughan <················@pobox.com> writes:
> Vassil Nikolov wrote:
>
>> >>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
>> >> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
>> >
>> > What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
>>
>> Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
>
> I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.
(No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
"cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
as "s", when these occur at the end of a word. I hope a Hungarian
speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)
---Vassil.
--
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com>
Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.
Vassil Nikolov wrote:
> (No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
> pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
> "cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
> as "s", when these occur at the end of a word. I hope a Hungarian
> speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)
though not hungarian, i'm pretty sure it is:
s - as sh
c - as ts
z - as z
sz - as s
cs - as ch
zs - voiced sh (as su in pleasure)
--
Joost Kremers ············@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com> writes:
> >> Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
> >
> > I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
>
> It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
> pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.
Sorry, I was unclear. I meant "I always thought the name
pronounced FEH-rentz was spelt Ferenc not Franz." I've
never seen Liszt's first name spelt any other way than "Franz".
(Correction: I just did, when checking a few facts against
Wikipedia.)
As I understand it, Liszt left Hungary rather young
and never even learned to speak Hungarian fluently.
So I suspect the German pronunciation is nearer the
mark than the Hungarian pronunciation of "Ferenc",
even if he was called Ferenc before he was called Franz. :-)
--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc
Gareth McCaughan <················@pobox.com> writes:
> Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com> writes:
>
>> >> Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
>> >
>> > I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
>>
>> It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
>> pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.
>
> Sorry, I was unclear. I meant "I always thought the name
> pronounced FEH-rentz was spelt Ferenc not Franz." I've
> never seen Liszt's first name spelt any other way than "Franz".
> (Correction: I just did, when checking a few facts against
> Wikipedia.)
I see, sorry about misunderstanding you. My experience has been
rather the opposite, having seen the name spelled mostly in (a
Cyrillic transliteration of) the Hungarian way (and having picked up
an old spelling, as I have just learned).
> As I understand it, Liszt left Hungary rather young
> and never even learned to speak Hungarian fluently.
> So I suspect the German pronunciation is nearer the
> mark than the Hungarian pronunciation of "Ferenc",
> even if he was called Ferenc before he was called Franz. :-)
Yes, that may be a better way of looking at it (much like the widely
adopted pronunciation of "Chopin" being the French one, though I
don't know if they use the latter even in Poland).
---Vassil.
--
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com>
Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com> writes:
> Gareth McCaughan <················@pobox.com> writes:
>
> > Vassil Nikolov wrote:
> >
> >> >>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> >> >> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
> >> >
> >> > What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
> >>
> >> Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
> >
> > I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
>
> It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
> pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.
These days it's spelt "Ferenc", but the pronunciation you gave is
correct.
>
> (No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
> pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
> "cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
> as "s", when these occur at the end of a word. I hope a Hungarian
> speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)
Not quite: both "c" and "cz" are pronounced "tz" (though "cz" is not
really used anymore), and "sz" is pronounced "s", wherever it is. See
Joost's followup for the complete picture.
Andras
Andras Simon <······@math.bme.hu> writes:
> Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com> writes:
> [...]
>> (No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
>> pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
>> "cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
>> as "s", when these occur at the end of a word. I hope a Hungarian
>> speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)
>
> Not quite: both "c" and "cz" are pronounced "tz" (though "cz" is not
> really used anymore), and "sz" is pronounced "s", wherever it is. See
> Joost's followup for the complete picture.
I stand corrected and enlightened, thank you and Joost.
---Vassil.
--
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com>
Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.
Joel Ray Holveck <·····@piquan.org> writes:
> >> But more often, I pronounce [rplacd] "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".
> > (But only when the return value is ignored, I presume.)
>
> Good point.
>
> >> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> > Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
>
> What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
Franz-corp with-preposition an-artile "a"-letter like-adverb
in-preposition "man"-noun not-adverb "Bach"-noun.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
In article <··············@janus.vassil.nikolov.names>, Vassil Nikolov
<········@poboxes.com> wrote:
> Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
> pronunciation. Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
> pronounce CDADDR...
I would never try to pronounce that (I'd shoot myself for writing that
first), but I was rather surprised and amused to hear Dan Friedman (of
Little Lisper lore) pronounce one of those manglings in class. I think
he would say kuh-DAH-di-dir.
--
Brian Mastenbrook
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:09:00 -0400, Vassil Nikolov wrote:
> Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
> pronunciation. Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
> pronounce CDADDR...
I don't pronounce CAR and friends as words, so that's easy: see-dee-ay-...
--
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest -- Publilius Syrus
(setq reply-to
(concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(··@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))
Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>
> How do I say these (verbally):
> rplaca
"set-eff-car" :)
Paul
From: Joe Marshall
Subject: Re: how to pronounce these names
Date:
Message-ID: <1xgjokcn.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>
Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
> How do I say these (verbally):
I don't know. I've never heard you speak.
I'll give you my take on it. (Imagine a New England accent)
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
I say `see-loss' rather than rhyming it with `cross'.
> rplaca
Rhymes with alpaca. ru-PLACK-a
The `u' is short (almost missing), like the initial syllable in
`rupture' rather than the initial syllable in `Ruprecht' or Ru-Paul.
> rplacd
ru-PLACK-dee
> nconc
en-konk (equal stress)
> Lowell
Almost rhymes with `roll'.
Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
>
> How do I say these (verbally):
>
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
This seems to have a West Coast/East Coast split.
"see-loss" versus "kloss" as pronounciation.
I grew up with kloss.
--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: how to pronounce these names
Date:
Message-ID: <uu0tfwmd9.fsf@news.dtpq.com>
···@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) writes:
> Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
>
> >
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>
> This seems to have a West Coast/East Coast split.
>
> "see-loss" versus "kloss" as pronounciation.
> I grew up with kloss.
Yes -- MIT people at least always said "see loss".
This "loss" pronounciation was not necessarily intended to malign
CLOS, but rather was just the natural way to pronounce it consistent
with our general psychological outlook. We would have probably
pronounced it "See Lose" if we actually hated it.
Some excerpts from the file "AI:JARGON >" circa 1982:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BAGBITER 1. n. Equipment or program that fails, usually
intermittently. 2. BAGBITING: adj. Failing hardware or software.
"This bagbiting system won't let me get out of spacewar." Usage:
verges on obscenity. Grammatically separable; one may speak of
"biting the bag". Synonyms: LOSER, LOSING, CRETINOUS, BLETCHEROUS,
BARFUCIOUS, CHOMPER, CHOMPING.
BARF [from the "layman" slang, meaning "vomit"] 1. interj. Term of
disgust. See BLETCH. 2. v. Choke, as on input. May mean to give
an error message. "The function `=' compares two fixnums or two
flonums, and barfs on anything else." 3. BARFULOUS, BARFUCIOUS:
adj. Said of something which would make anyone barf, if only for
aesthetic reasons.
BLETCH [from German "brechen", to vomit (?)] 1. interj. Term of
disgust. 2. BLETCHEROUS: adj. Disgusting in design or function.
"This keyboard is bletcherous!" Usage: slightly comic.
BOGOSITY n. The degree to which something is BOGUS (q.v.). At CMU,
bogosity is measured with a bogometer; typical use: in a seminar,
when a speaker says something bogus, a listener might raise his
hand and say, "My bogometer just triggered." The agreed-upon unit
of bogosity is the microLenat (uL).
BOGUS (WPI, Yale, Stanford) adj. 1. Non-functional. "Your patches are
bogus." 2. Useless. "OPCON is a bogus program." 3. False. "Your
arguments are bogus." 4. Incorrect. "That algorithm is bogus."
5. Silly. "Stop writing those bogus sagas." (This word seems to
have some, but not all, of the connotations of RANDOM.)
[Etymological note from Lehman/Reid at CMU: "Bogus" was originally
used (in this sense) at Princeton, in the late 60's. It was used
not particularly in the CS department, but all over campus. It
came to Yale, where one of us (Lehman) was an undergraduate, and
(we assume) elsewhere through the efforts of Princeton alumni who
brought the word with them from their alma mater. In the Yale
case, the alumnus is Michael Shamos, who was a graduate student at
Yale and is now a faculty member here. A glossary of bogus words
was compiled at Yale when the word was first popularized (e.g.,
autobogophobia: the fear of becoming bogotified).]
BRAIN-DAMAGED [generalization of "Honeywell Brain Damage" (HBD), a
theoretical disease invented to explain certain utter cretinisms in
Multics] adj. Obviously wrong; cretinous; demented. There is an
implication that the person responsible must have suffered brain
damage, because he should have known better. Calling something
brain-damaged is really bad; it also implies it is unusable.
BROKEN adj. 1. Not working properly (of programs). 2. Behaving
strangely; especially (of people), exhibiting extreme depression.
CHOMP v. To lose; to chew on something of which more was bitten off
than one can. Probably related to gnashing of teeth. See
BAGBITER. A hand gesture commonly accompanies this, consisting of
the four fingers held together as if in a mitten or hand puppet,
and the fingers and thumb open and close rapidly to illustrate a
biting action. The gesture alone means CHOMP CHOMP (see Verb
Doubling).
CRETIN 1. n. Congenital loser (q.v.). 2. CRETINOUS: adj. See
BLETCHEROUS and BAGBITING. Usage: somewhat ad hominem.
CROCK [probably from "layman" slang, which in turn may be derived from
"crock of shit"] n. An awkward feature or programming technique
that ought to be made cleaner. Example: Using small integers to
represent error codes without the program interpreting them to the
user is a crock. Also, a technique that works acceptably but which
is quite prone to failure if disturbed in the least, for example
depending on the machine opcodes having particular bit patterns so
that you can use instructions as data words too; a tightly woven,
almost completely unmodifiable structure.
CRUFTY [from "cruddy"] adj. 1. Poorly built, possibly overly complex.
"This is standard old crufty DEC software". Hence CRUFT, n. shoddy
construction. Also CRUFT, v. [from hand cruft, pun on hand craft]
to write assembler code for something normally (and better) done by
a compiler. 2. Unpleasant, especially to the touch, often with
encrusted junk. Like spilled coffee smeared with peanut butter and
catsup. Hence CRUFT, n. disgusting mess. 3. Generally unpleasant.
CRUFTY or CRUFTIE n. A small crufty object (see FROB); often one
which doesn't fit well into the scheme of things. "A LISP property
list is a good place to store crufties (or, random cruft)."
[Note: Does CRUFT have anything to do with the Cruft Lab at
Harvard? I don't know, though I was a Harvard student. - GLS]
DEMENTED adj. Yet another term of disgust used to describe a program.
The connotation in this case is that the program works as designed,
but the design is bad. For example, a program that generates large
numbers of meaningless error messages implying it is on the point
of imminent collapse.
FEATURE n. 1. A surprising property of a program. Occasionally docu-
mented. To call a property a feature sometimes means the author of
the program did not consider the particular case, and the program
makes an unexpected, although not strictly speaking an incorrect
response. See BUG. "That's not a bug, that's a feature!" A bug
can be changed to a feature by documenting it. 2. A well-known and
beloved property; a facility. Sometimes features are planned, but
are called crocks by others. An approximately correct spectrum:
(These terms are all used to describe programs or portions thereof,
except for the first two, which are included for completeness.)
CRASH STOPPAGE BUG SCREW LOSS MISFEATURE
CROCK KLUGE HACK WIN FEATURE PERFECTION
(The last is never actually attained.)
FLAKEY adj. Subject to frequent lossages. See LOSSAGE.
FLAME v. To speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively
uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude.
FLAME ON: v. To continue to flame. See RAVE. This punning
reference to Marvel comics' Human Torch has been lost as
recent usage completes the circle: "Flame on" now usually
means "beginning of flame".
FOO 1. [from Yiddish "feh" or the Anglo-Saxon "fooey!"] interj. Term
of disgust. 2. [from FUBAR (Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition),
from WWII, often seen as FOOBAR] Name used for temporary programs,
or samples of three-letter names. Other similar words are BAR, BAZ
(Stanford corruption of BAR), and rarely RAG. These have been used
in Pogo as well. 3. Used very generally as a sample name for
absolutely anything. The old `Smokey Stover' comic strips often
included the word FOO, in particular on license plates of cars.
MOBY FOO: See MOBY.
FROB 1. n. (MIT) The official Tech Model Railroad Club definition is
"FROB = protruding arm or trunnion", and by metaphoric extension
any somewhat small thing. See FROBNITZ. 2. v. Abbreviated form of
FROBNICATE.
FROBNICATE v. To manipulate or adjust, to tweak. Derived from
FROBNITZ (q.v.). Usually abbreviated to FROB. Thus one has the
saying "to frob a frob". See TWEAK and TWIDDLE. Usage: FROB,
TWIDDLE, and TWEAK sometimes connote points along a continuum.
FROB connotes aimless manipulation; TWIDDLE connotes gross
manipulation, often a coarse search for a proper setting; TWEAK
connotes fine-tuning. If someone is turning a knob on an
oscilloscope, then if he's carefully adjusting it he is probably
tweaking it; if he is just turning it but looking at the screen he
is probably twiddling it; but if he's just doing it because turning
a knob is fun, he's frobbing it.
FROBNITZ, pl. FROBNITZEM (frob'nitsm) n. An unspecified physical
object, a widget. Also refers to electronic black boxes. This
rare form is usually abbreviated to FROTZ, or more commonly to
FROB. Also used are FROBNULE, FROBULE, and FROBNODULE. Starting
perhaps in 1979, FROBBOZ (fruh-bahz'), pl. FROBBOTZIM, has also
become very popular, largely due to its exposure via the Adventure
spin-off called Zork (Dungeon). These can also be applied to
non-physical objects, such as data structures.
FROG (variant: PHROG) 1. interj. Term of disgust (we seem to have a
lot of them). 2. Used as a name for just about anything. See FOO.
3. n. Of things, a crock. Of people, somewhere inbetween a turkey
and a toad. 4. Jake Brown (···@SAIL). 5. FROGGY: adj. Similar to
BAGBITING (q.v.), but milder. "This froggy program is taking
forever to run!"
FROTZ 1. n. See FROBNITZ. 2. MUMBLE FROTZ: An interjection of very
mild disgust.
GLORK 1. interj. Term of mild surprise, usually tinged with outrage,
as when one attempts to save the results of two hours of editing
and finds that the system has just crashed. 2. Used as a name for
just about anything. See FOO. 3. v. Similar to GLITCH (q.v.), but
usually used reflexively. "My program just glorked itself."
GLITCH [from the Yiddish "glitshen", to slide] 1. n. A sudden
interruption in electric service, sanity, or program function.
Sometimes recoverable. 2. v. To commit a glitch. See GRITCH.
3. v. (Stanford) To scroll a display screen.
GRITCH 1. n. A complaint (often caused by a GLITCH (q.v.)). 2. v. To
complain. Often verb-doubled: "Gritch gritch". 3. Glitch.
GRUNGY adj. Incredibly dirty or grubby. Anything which has been
washed within the last year is not really grungy. Also used
metaphorically; hence some programs (especially crocks) can be
described as grungy.
GUBBISH [a portmanteau of "garbage" and "rubbish"?] n. Garbage; crap;
nonsense. "What is all this gubbish?"
HACK n. 1. Originally a quick job that produces what is needed, but
not well. 2. The result of that job. 3. NEAT HACK: A clever
technique. Also, a brilliant practical joke, where neatness is
correlated with cleverness, harmlessness, and surprise value.
Example: the Caltech Rose Bowl card display switch circa 1961.
4. REAL HACK: A crock (occasionally affectionate).
v. 5. With "together", to throw something together so it will work.
6. To bear emotionally or physically. "I can't hack this heat!" 7.
To work on something (typically a program). In specific sense:
"What are you doing?" "I'm hacking TECO." In general sense: "What
do you do around here?" "I hack TECO." (The former is
time-immediate, the latter time-extended.) More generally, "I hack
x" is roughly equivalent to "x is my bag". "I hack solid-state
physics." 8. To pull a prank on. See definition 3 and HACKER (def
#6). 9. v.i. To waste time (as opposed to TOOL). "Watcha up to?"
"Oh, just hacking." 10. HACK UP (ON): To hack, but generally
implies that the result is meanings 1-2. 11. HACK VALUE: Term used
as the reason or motivation for expending effort toward a seemingly
useless goal, the point being that the accomplished goal is a hack.
For example, MacLISP has code to read and print roman numerals,
which was installed purely for hack value.
HAPPY HACKING: A farewell. HOW'S HACKING?: A friendly greeting
among hackers. HACK HACK: A somewhat pointless but friendly
comment, often used as a temporary farewell.
[The word HACK doesn't really have 69 different meanings. In fact,
HACK has only one meaning, an extremely subtle and profound one
which defies articulation. Which connotation a given HACK-token
has depends in similarly profound ways on the context. Similar
comments apply to a couple other hacker jargon items, most notably
RANDOM. - Agre]
HACKER [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A
person who enjoys learning the details of programming systems and
how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users who
prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs
enthusiastically, or who enjoys programming rather than just
theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating
hack value (q.v.). 4. A person who is good at programming quickly.
Not everything a hacker produces is a hack. 5. An expert at a
particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on
it; example: "A SAIL hacker". (Definitions 1 to 5 are correlated,
and people who fit them congregate.) 6. A malicious or inquisitive
meddler who tries to discover information by poking around. Hence
"password hacker", "network hacker".
HACKISH adj. Being or involving a hack. HACKISHNESS n.
HAIRY adj. 1. Overly complicated. "DWIM is incredibly hairy." 2.
Incomprehensible. "DWIM is incredibly hairy." 3. Of people,
high-powered, authoritative, rare, expert, and/or incomprehensible.
Hard to explain except in context: "He knows this hairy lawyer who
says there's nothing to worry about."
KLUGE (kloodj) alt. KLUDGE [from the German "kluge", clever] n. 1. A
Rube Goldberg device in hardware or software. 2. A clever
programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an
efficient, if not clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often
verges on being a crock. 3. Something that works for the wrong
reason. 4. v. To insert a kluge into a program. "I've kluged this
routine to get around that weird bug, but there's probably a better
way." Also KLUGE UP. 5. KLUGE AROUND: To avoid by inserting a
kluge. 6. (WPI) A feature which is implemented in a RUDE manner.
LOSE [from MIT jargon] v. 1. To fail. A program loses when it
encounters an exceptional condition. 2. To be exceptionally
unaesthetic. 3. Of people, to be obnoxious or unusually stupid (as
opposed to ignorant). 4. DESERVE TO LOSE: v. Said of someone who
willfully does the wrong thing; humorously, if one uses a feature
known to be marginal. What is meant is that one deserves the
consequences of one's losing actions. "Boy, anyone who tries to
use MULTICS deserves to lose!"
LOSE LOSE - a reply or comment on a situation.
LOSER n. An unexpectedly bad situation, program, programmer, or
person. Especially "real loser".
LOSS n. Something which loses. WHAT A (MOBY) LOSS!: interjection.
LOSSAGE n. The result of a bug or malfunction.
MISFEATURE n. A feature which eventually screws someone, possibly
because it is not adequate for a new situation which has evolved.
It is not the same as a bug because fixing it involves a gross
philosophical change to the structure of the system involved.
Often a former feature becomes a misfeature because a tradeoff was
made whose parameters subsequently changed (possibly only in the
judgment of the implementors). "Well, yeah, it's kind of a
misfeature that file names are limited to six characters, but we're
stuck with it for now."
MUNG (variant: MUNGE) [recursive acronym for Mung Until No Good] v. 1.
To make changes to a file, often large-scale, usually irrevocable.
Occasionally accidental. See BLT. 2. To destroy, usually
accidentally, occasionally maliciously. The system only mungs
things maliciously.
RANDOM adj. 1. Unpredictable (closest to mathematical definition);
weird. "The system's been behaving pretty randomly." 2. Assorted;
undistinguished. "Who was at the conference?" "Just a bunch of
random business types." 3. Frivolous; unproductive; undirected
(pejorative). "He's just a random loser." 4. Incoherent or
inelegant; not well organized. "The program has a random set of
misfeatures." "That's a random name for that function." "Well,
all the names were chosen pretty randomly." 5. Gratuitously wrong,
i.e., poorly done and for no good apparent reason. For example, a
program that handles file name defaulting in a particularly useless
way, or a routine that could easily have been coded using only
three ac's, but randomly uses seven for assorted non-overlapping
purposes, so that no one else can invoke it without first saving
four extra ac's. 6. In no particular order, though deterministic.
"The I/O channels are in a pool, and when a file is opened one is
chosen randomly." n. 7. A random hacker; used particularly of high
school students who soak up computer time and generally get in the
way. 8. (occasional MIT usage) One who lives at Random Hall.
J. RANDOM is often prefixed to a noun to make a "name" out of it
(by comparison to common names such as "J. Fred Muggs"). The most
common uses are "J. Random Loser" and "J. Random Nurd" ("Should
J. Random Loser be allowed to gun down other people?"), but it
can be used just as an elaborate version of RANDOM in any sense.
[See also the note at the end of the entry for HACK.]
RANDOMNESS n. An unexplainable misfeature; gratuitous inelegance.
Also, a hack or crock which depends on a complex combination
of coincidences (or rather, the combination upon which the
crock depends). "This hack can output characters 40-57 by
putting the character in the accumulator field of an XCT and
then extracting 6 bits -- the low two bits of the XCT opcode
are the right thing." "What randomness!"
SPAZZ 1. v. To behave spastically or erratically; more often, to
commit a single gross error. "Boy, is he spazzing!" 2. n. One who
spazzes. "Boy, what a spazz!" 3. n. The result of spazzing.
"Boy, what a spazz!"
STOPPAGE n. Extreme lossage (see LOSSAGE) resulting in something
(usually vital) becoming completely unusable.
WIN [from MIT jargon] 1. v. To succeed. A program wins if no
unexpected conditions arise. 2. BIG WIN: n. Serendipity.
Emphatic forms: MOBY WIN, SUPER WIN, HYPER-WIN (often used
interjectively as a reply). For some reason SUITABLE WIN is also
common at MIT, usually in reference to a satisfactory solution to a
problem. See LOSE.
WINNAGE n. The situation when a lossage is corrected, or when
something is winning. Quite rare. Usage: also quite rare.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
> How do I say these (verbally):
>
> rplaca
> rplacd
My 0.02:
I've heard all the old timers chime in, and I'm
sure they're right, but I think I'd pronouce
those as REPLACE-CAR and REPLACE-CUD-DER.
And I always think of CMUCL as SEE-MUCK-ULL.
Since I am spanish, I can bring a different perspective:
In my mother tongue the usage is to recur to the second
letter of every word, so CMUCL would end CaMeUnCoLi.
Suggestive?
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: how to pronounce these names
Date:
Message-ID: <u7jqby7vk.fsf@news.dtpq.com>
Alain Picard <············@memetrics.com> writes:
> Lowell Kirsh <······@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
>
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > rplaca
> > rplacd
>
> My 0.02:
>
> I've heard all the old timers chime in, and I'm
> sure they're right, but I think I'd pronouce
> those as REPLACE-CAR and REPLACE-CUD-DER.
>
> And I always think of CMUCL as SEE-MUCK-ULL.
I'm amazed that there's any question of how to pronounce it; have people
forgotten that it's the Lisp written at Carnegie-Mellon University?
Or is it not commonly known that C.M.U. is pronounced "See Emm You"?
And when "CL" appears by itself, doesn't everyone just pronounce
the letters "See Ell"? CMUCL is the "CL" from "CMU"; CMU's CL.
I've never heard it pronounced other than "See Em You See Ell".
······@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
> > And I always think of CMUCL as SEE-MUCK-ULL.
>
> I'm amazed that there's any question of how to pronounce it; have people
> forgotten that it's the Lisp written at Carnegie-Mellon University?
> Or is it not commonly known that C.M.U. is pronounced "See Emm You"?
No. It's pronounced k'mu, like in CMU's Mostly Unix.
> And when "CL" appears by itself, doesn't everyone just pronounce
> the letters "See Ell"? CMUCL is the "CL" from "CMU"; CMU's CL.
> I've never heard it pronounced other than "See Em You See Ell".
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: how to pronounce these names
Date:
Message-ID: <uhdpfw7bs.fsf@news.dtpq.com>
Alain Picard <············@memetrics.com> writes:
> ······@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
>
> > I'm amazed that there's any question of how to pronounce it; have people
> > forgotten that it's the Lisp written at Carnegie-Mellon University?
>
> That's the wonderful thing about language---apparently the users,
> not the designers, get to choose how they use it. :-)
I'm referring to how most "users" of the word have used it since the
mid-1980s; I am speculating that the people who are pronouncing it
differently (mispronouncing it, I would say) are "foreigners" -- they
from some culture that is not aware of a university called "C.M.U.".
Such "foreigners" could be from the United States or anywhere; it's
probably not an English language issue (although I am not sure how
people elsewhere refer to "C.M.U."). My point is that computer
technology is infinitely more ubiquitous than it was a quarter
centry ago, when C.M.U. was one of a relatively few places
in the world where computer technology came from.
······@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
> I'm referring to how most "users" of the word have used it since the
> mid-1980s; I am speculating that the people who are pronouncing it
> differently (mispronouncing it, I would say) are "foreigners" -- they
> from some culture that is not aware of a university called "C.M.U.".
Interesting speculation; in my case, however, I'm quite aware
of the meaning and name (and even of some of the historical importance)
of the Carnegie Mellon University.
But I agree that there must definitely be a component of the
"mispronouncing" due to schism in the community; i.e. when it gets
large enough that large pockets of the group have no direct contact
with initiates which already have one favoured pronunciation, it
leaves room for divergent usages to flourish.
BTW, I leared that mispronounciation from someone who did his
computer work at M.I.T., which I would assume is near enough
(psychologically and historically) to CMU that I speculate that
the initial pronunciation may be becoming archaic.
[p.s. sorry for late reply; just back from holiday]