"Jeff M." <·······@gmail.com> wrote in message
·····························@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> This doesn't belong in "Lisp sucks" or "C++ sucks". Nor is this a rant
> on either language, so let's not start any flame wars. However, as a
> professional, console game developer (that happens to love Lisp), I
> thought I'd post my feelings on this subject...
>
> http://www.retrobyte.org/essays.php
>
> I'm sure people will agree, disagree and agree to disagree. That's
> fine. But I'd like any [constructive] feedback on the essay.
>
> Jeff M.
On the subject of Naughty Dog, there's a recent post from one of their guys
on a mailing list which indicates that they're starting to use C++
(apparently with some hacked lisp-wannabe additions). Here's the quote...
"After using a completely custom language for our last three PS2 projects,
coming back to C++ has been a pretty rude awakening. We were hoping we
could work around some of the deficiencies of C++ with a good preprocessor,
ideally one that provided more than symple hygienic macro substitution..."
From: Duane Rettig
Subject: Re: Lisp, C++ and game development
Date:
Message-ID: <4ekiz7yxj.fsf@franz.com>
"G.A." <···············@hotmTHANKSail.com> writes:
> "Jeff M." <·······@gmail.com> wrote in message
> ·····························@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > This doesn't belong in "Lisp sucks" or "C++ sucks". Nor is this a rant
> > on either language, so let's not start any flame wars. However, as a
> > professional, console game developer (that happens to love Lisp), I
> > thought I'd post my feelings on this subject...
> >
> > http://www.retrobyte.org/essays.php
> >
> > I'm sure people will agree, disagree and agree to disagree. That's
> > fine. But I'd like any [constructive] feedback on the essay.
> >
> > Jeff M.
>
> On the subject of Naughty Dog, there's a recent post from one of their guys
> on a mailing list which indicates that they're starting to use C++
> (apparently with some hacked lisp-wannabe additions). Here's the quote...
>
> "After using a completely custom language for our last three PS2 projects,
> coming back to C++ has been a pretty rude awakening. We were hoping we
> could work around some of the deficiencies of C++ with a good preprocessor,
> ideally one that provided more than symple hygienic macro substitution..."
It's interesting to see someone who _wants_ to get away from Lisp
actually _complain_ about deficiencies in his language of choice.
But perhaps that is not the case here; perhaps this particular
developer has a pro-lisp bent anyway.
We've had a lot of experience with customers moving away from CL;
we do our best to make sure that it wasn't something we did or did
not do, but then we just say goodbye without stressing over it,
they need to do what they need to do. We had a sales manager
many years ago that would say "OK, goodbye; I'll see you in
a year or two" and many times, sure enough, we'd see them back
again after a failled attempt to go back to C++...
Sometimes they do not actually _leave_ CL, but just run some
parallel development on another language, "just in case".
--
Duane Rettig ·····@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
G.A. wrote:
> "Jeff M." <·······@gmail.com> wrote in message
> ·····························@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > This doesn't belong in "Lisp sucks" or "C++ sucks". Nor is this a
> > rant on either language, so let's not start any flame wars.
> > However, as a professional, console game developer (that happens to
> > love Lisp), I thought I'd post my feelings on this subject...
> >
> > http://www.retrobyte.org/essays.php
> >
> > I'm sure people will agree, disagree and agree to disagree. That's
> > fine. But I'd like any [constructive] feedback on the essay.
> >
> > Jeff M.
>
> On the subject of Naughty Dog, there's a recent post from one of
> their guys on a mailing list which indicates that they're starting to
> use C++ (apparently with some hacked lisp-wannabe additions). Here's
> the quote...
>
> "After using a completely custom language for our last three PS2
> projects, coming back to C++ has been a pretty rude awakening. We
> were hoping we could work around some of the deficiencies of C++ with
> a good preprocessor, ideally one that provided more than symple
> hygienic macro substitution..."
Do you have a link? I'd like to put that into the essay.
Jeff M.
--
(surf-to "http://www.retrobyte.org/")
(mail-to (concatenate 'string "massung" ·@" "gmail.com"))
"Jeff" <·······@gmail.com> wrote in message
··························@attbi_s03...
> G.A. wrote:
>
> > "Jeff M." <·······@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > ·····························@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > This doesn't belong in "Lisp sucks" or "C++ sucks". Nor is this a
> > > rant on either language, so let's not start any flame wars.
> > > However, as a professional, console game developer (that happens to
> > > love Lisp), I thought I'd post my feelings on this subject...
> > >
> > > http://www.retrobyte.org/essays.php
> > >
> > > I'm sure people will agree, disagree and agree to disagree. That's
> > > fine. But I'd like any [constructive] feedback on the essay.
> > >
> > > Jeff M.
> >
> > On the subject of Naughty Dog, there's a recent post from one of
> > their guys on a mailing list which indicates that they're starting to
> > use C++ (apparently with some hacked lisp-wannabe additions). Here's
> > the quote...
> >
> > "After using a completely custom language for our last three PS2
> > projects, coming back to C++ has been a pretty rude awakening. We
> > were hoping we could work around some of the deficiencies of C++ with
> > a good preprocessor, ideally one that provided more than symple
> > hygienic macro substitution..."
>
> Do you have a link? I'd like to put that into the essay.
>
> Jeff M.
>
Here. Remove the 'JEFF's from the link which I've added to keep spiders
away...
http://lists.midnigJEFFhtryder.com/pipermail/sweng-gameJEFFdev-midnightryder.com/2004-November/002611.html