From: Christian Hofer
Subject: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <c7nkfu$aum$1@online.de>
Hi,

I am still new to Lisp, nevertheless I can't wait until I am more 
experienced, to try CLIM, which seems to have a very powerful UI concept.

Is there an easy way to install McCLIM in either SBCL or CMUCL on Unix 
or OpenMCL on MacOSX? I don't dare (and understand) the SBCL 
installation which is described on the CLiki page 
(http://www.cliki.net/McCLIM), but I hope, things might have gotten 
simpler meanwhile...

Thanks,
Chris

From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <c366f098.0405100547.1dad8704@posting.google.com>
Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de> wrote in message news:<············@online.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I am still new to Lisp, nevertheless I can't wait until I am more 
> experienced, to try CLIM, which seems to have a very powerful UI concept.
> 
> Is there an easy way to install McCLIM in either SBCL or CMUCL on Unix 
> or OpenMCL on MacOSX? I don't dare (and understand) the SBCL 
> installation which is described on the CLiki page 
> (http://www.cliki.net/McCLIM), but I hope, things might have gotten 
> simpler meanwhile...
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris

The McCLIM distribution comes with installation instructions. Did
you see/read them? I was able to use McCLIM with OpenMCL
on Mac OS X.
From: Dave Pearson
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <slrnc9uq3a.ij0.davep.news@hagbard.davep.org>
* Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de>:

> Is there an easy way to install McCLIM in either SBCL or CMUCL on Unix or
> OpenMCL on MacOSX? I don't dare (and understand) the SBCL installation
> which is described on the CLiki page (http://www.cliki.net/McCLIM), but I
> hope, things might have gotten simpler meanwhile...

I first had a crack at installing McCLIM a couple of weeks ago and found it
pretty simple (both with SBCL and CMUCL on my GNU/Linux box). I pulled the
latest sources from CVS and then followed the instructions in INSTALL.SBCL
and INSTALL.CMU.

Step 2 in INSTALL.SBCL was made somewhat easier thanks to asdf-install
(install that if you don't already have it). IIRC all I had to do to get CLX
working with SBCL was:

,----
| (require :asdf-install)
| (asdf-install:install :clx)
`----

Once I'd got McCLIM built I simply symlinked ~/.sbcl/systems/clim.asd to
/usr/local/src/McCLIM/system.lisp and then loading McCLIM, in SBCL, is
simply a case of doing:

,----
| (require :clim)
`----

Same with CMUCL, although CMUCL doesn't have SBCL's handy require back.

-- 
Dave Pearson
http://www.davep.org/lisp/
From: Christian Hofer
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <c7o1ra$82q$1@online.de>
Thank you all for your answers!

Dave Pearson wrote:

> Step 2 in INSTALL.SBCL was made somewhat easier thanks to asdf-install
> (install that if you don't already have it). IIRC all I had to do to get CLX
> working with SBCL was:
> 
> ,----
> | (require :asdf-install)
> | (asdf-install:install :clx)
> `----

Yes, this one I already had before...

> 
> Once I'd got McCLIM built I simply symlinked ~/.sbcl/systems/clim.asd to
> /usr/local/src/McCLIM/system.lisp and then loading McCLIM, in SBCL, is
> simply a case of doing:

I did this, but I could not find it in the INSTALL instructions.

> 
> ,----
> | (require :clim)
> `----

for me:
(require :asdf-install)
(require :clx)
(require :clim)
(require :clim-clx)
(require :clim-examples)

But:
Either CLIM is supposed to be as unstable as it is, or something went 
wrong. E.g. when I open a menu in the address book demo, the whole X 
server hangs (although the menu demo works). The calculator won't start 
at all, and the function make-application-frame is undefined. Is that 
supposed to be like that?

Chris
From: Dave Pearson
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <slrnc9v7et.ij0.davep.news@hagbard.davep.org>
* Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de>:

> Dave Pearson wrote:
> 
> > Once I'd got McCLIM built I simply symlinked ~/.sbcl/systems/clim.asd to
> > /usr/local/src/McCLIM/system.lisp and then loading McCLIM, in SBCL, is
> > simply a case of doing:
> 
> I did this, but I could not find it in the INSTALL instructions.

Indeed it isn't; I think I picked up the hint from a page on Cliki.

> > ,----
> > | (require :clim)
> > `----
> 
> for me:
> (require :asdf-install)

I wouldn't have thought that you'd need that after your initial install.

> (require :clx)
> (require :clim)

I'm fairly sure that, for me anyway, doing the require for :clim causes :clx
to be loaded, but I might be mistaken (I would test it now but I've got
newer sources of McCLIM kicking around from the last time I ran it all up
with SBCL and it'll take a while to do a rebuild on my aging machine).

> (require :clim-clx)

Sorry, yes, I forgot to mention this one (in my defence I generally use
CMUCL for mucking about with CLIM).

> (require :clim-examples)

Yes, you'll need to do that for the examples.

> Either CLIM is supposed to be as unstable as it is, or something went
> wrong. E.g. when I open a menu in the address book demo, the whole X
> server hangs (although the menu demo works). The calculator won't start at
> all, and the function make-application-frame is undefined. Is that
> supposed to be like that?

My apologies, I should have mentioned my experience with this. I too have
this problem with SBCL and McCLIM (and, if I ever get round to testing it
properly I do intend to file some sort of report about it). On the other
hand I've found that McCLIM works well with CMUCL, the menu problem doesn't
appear. On my box I've got this:

,----
| ·····@hagbard:~$ cat bin/clim 
| #!/bin/sh
| 
| #sbcl --core /usr/local/lib/sbcl/sbcl-clim.core $*
| lisp -core /usr/local/lib/cmucl/cmucl-clim.core $*
`----

as a way of kicking it all off. As you'll note, for speed and ease of use, I
make a point of dumping a core with CLX and McCLIM loaded.

-- 
Dave Pearson
http://www.davep.org/lisp/
From: Christian Hofer
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <c7odl8$1s6$1@online.de>
Dave Pearson wrote:
> * Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de>:
>>for me:
>>(require :asdf-install)
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have thought that you'd need that after your initial install.

You are right, I don't. (But I do need (require :asdf).)

>>(require :clx)
>>(require :clim)
> 
> 
> I'm fairly sure that, for me anyway, doing the require for :clim causes :clx
> to be loaded, but I might be mistaken 

No, I'm sorry, you are right. I was sure, that last time it didn't work. 
But now it works perfectly. Only it takes quite some time. It seems to 
recompile s.th.

>>Either CLIM is supposed to be as unstable as it is, or something went
>>wrong. E.g. when I open a menu in the address book demo, the whole X
>>server hangs (although the menu demo works). The calculator won't start at
>>all, and the function make-application-frame is undefined. Is that
>>supposed to be like that?
> 
> 
> My apologies, I should have mentioned my experience with this. I too have
> this problem with SBCL and McCLIM (and, if I ever get round to testing it
> properly I do intend to file some sort of report about it). On the other
> hand I've found that McCLIM works well with CMUCL, the menu problem doesn't
> appear. On my box I've got this:

I just wanted to know that it's not me doing s.th. wrong. I could not 
expect to get a stable release by downloading a nightly build. I will 
try it with CMUCL. Does anybody know, if the released version is working 
better (being a alpha release anyway)?

> 
> ,----
> | ·····@hagbard:~$ cat bin/clim 
> | #!/bin/sh
> | 
> | #sbcl --core /usr/local/lib/sbcl/sbcl-clim.core $*
> | lisp -core /usr/local/lib/cmucl/cmucl-clim.core $*
> `----
> 
> as a way of kicking it all off. As you'll note, for speed and ease of use, I
> make a point of dumping a core with CLX and McCLIM loaded.
> 

Until now, I thought dumping core is what my C programs tend to do all 
by themselves ;-) Ok, i'll have a look how that works (is it s.th. like 
the Smalltalk "image"?)

Chris
From: Dave Pearson
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <slrnc9vp3t.o9f.davep.news@hagbard.davep.org>
* Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de>:

> Dave Pearson wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't have thought that you'd need that after your initial install.
> 
> You are right, I don't. (But I do need (require :asdf).)

If it's something you use a lot it might be a good idea to load asdf in your
~/.sbclrc.

> > My apologies, I should have mentioned my experience with this. I too
> > have this problem with SBCL and McCLIM (and, if I ever get round to
> > testing it properly I do intend to file some sort of report about it).
> > On the other hand I've found that McCLIM works well with CMUCL, the menu
> > problem doesn't appear. On my box I've got this:
> 
> I just wanted to know that it's not me doing s.th. wrong. I could not
> expect to get a stable release by downloading a nightly build. I will try
> it with CMUCL. Does anybody know, if the released version is working
> better (being a alpha release anyway)?

I updated from CVS a couple of hours ago and rebuilt with SBCL and the
problem still seems to be there. I've not tested the latest code with CMUCL
yet but I'd suspect that it's still fine.

> > as a way of kicking it all off. As you'll note, for speed and ease of
> > use, I make a point of dumping a core with CLX and McCLIM loaded.
> 
> Until now, I thought dumping core is what my C programs tend to do all by
> themselves ;-) Ok, i'll have a look how that works (is it s.th. like the
> Smalltalk "image"?)

Can't comment on the Smalltalk thing but saving a new core file is easy
enough with CMUCL; the function to use is even given and an example shown at
the end of INSTALL.CMU in the McCLIM sources.

-- 
Dave Pearson
http://www.davep.org/lisp/
From: Christian Hofer
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <c7ovn6$v0q$1@online.de>
Dave Pearson wrote:
> * Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de>:
>>You are right, I don't. (But I do need (require :asdf).)
> 
> 
> If it's something you use a lot it might be a good idea to load asdf in your
> ~/.sbclrc.

Good idea! Until now, I have mainly written small programs for learning 
purposes.

> 
> Can't comment on the Smalltalk thing but saving a new core file is easy
> enough with CMUCL; the function to use is even given and an example shown at
> the end of INSTALL.CMU in the McCLIM sources.
> 

Thanks. I have just managed to run McCLIM on a CMUCL core file. It is 
really a lot more stable. But the first look at CLIM is a bit confusing. 
I will have to experiment a lot more with it, when I find time for it.

Chris
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <87ekpsdsp4.fsf@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it>
Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de> writes:

> by themselves ;-) Ok, i'll have a look how that works (is it
> s.th. like the Smalltalk "image"?)

Yes.  See functions EXT:SAVE-LISP (CMUCL) and SB-EXT:SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE
(SBCL).


Paolo
-- 
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (Google for info on each):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <87zn8gqekz.fsf@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it>
Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de> writes:

> I just wanted to know that it's not me doing s.th. wrong. I could not
> expect to get a stable release by downloading a nightly build. I will
> try it with CMUCL. Does anybody know, if the released version is
> working better (being a alpha release anyway)?

I seem to remember that the menu problem you mentioned has already
been reported.  I do not experience it with the latest McCLIM CVS
sources and CMUCL 18e/SBCL 0.8.10.14 under Debian Woody.

McCLIM is currently Alpha quality, but it is already useful.  A
summary of its compatibility status with the CLIM 2.0 specification is
available at:

  http://mcclim.cliki.net/Compliance

If you have not checked the McCLIM CLiki site, have a look at:

  http://www.cliki.net


Paolo
-- 
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (Google for info on each):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <87pt9cullu.fsf@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it>
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:

> If you have not checked the McCLIM CLiki site, have a look at:
>
>   http://www.cliki.net

Ooops... I meant:

  http://mcclim.cliki.net


Paolo
-- 
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (Google for info on each):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <877jvkgu98.fsf@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it>
Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de> writes:

> Dave Pearson wrote:
[...]
>> Once I'd got McCLIM built I simply symlinked
>> ~/.sbcl/systems/clim.asd to
>> /usr/local/src/McCLIM/system.lisp and then loading McCLIM, in SBCL, is
>> simply a case of doing:
>
> I did this, but I could not find it in the INSTALL instructions.

This is an ASDF feature, not a McCLIM one.


> Either CLIM is supposed to be as unstable as it is, or something went

McCLIM is currently Alpha-ish quality.


> wrong. E.g. when I open a menu in the address book demo, the whole X
> server hangs (although the menu demo works). The calculator won't
> start at all, and the function make-application-frame is undefined. Is
> that supposed to be like that?

The first symptom reminds me of a problem fixed in the latest CVS
sources.  Which sources did you try?


Paolo
-- 
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (Google for info on each):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
From: Christian Hofer
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <c7oo1d$l57$1@online.de>
Paolo Amoroso wrote:
> Christian Hofer <·······@gmx.de> writes:
>>wrong. E.g. when I open a menu in the address book demo, the whole X
>>server hangs (although the menu demo works). The calculator won't
>>start at all, and the function make-application-frame is undefined. Is
>>that supposed to be like that?
> 
> 
> The first symptom reminds me of a problem fixed in the latest CVS
> sources.  Which sources did you try?

The "nightly build". Maybe it is not so nightly after all? Or maybe, 
it's because my FreeBSD currently has some X library portupgrade problems...
I'll try with CMUCL (or OpenMCL on my iBook - it is nice to have so much 
choice...)

Thank you for taking your time!

Chris
From: mikel
Subject: Re: How to install McClim?
Date: 
Message-ID: <EuKnc.46808$zy2.13404@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Christian Hofer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am still new to Lisp, nevertheless I can't wait until I am more 
> experienced, to try CLIM, which seems to have a very powerful UI concept.
> 
> Is there an easy way to install McCLIM in either SBCL or CMUCL on Unix 
> or OpenMCL on MacOSX? I don't dare (and understand) the SBCL 
> installation which is described on the CLiki page 
> (http://www.cliki.net/McCLIM), but I hope, things might have gotten 
> simpler meanwhile...

If you get the binary release of SBCL from SourceForge, the install is 
very simple; you can just unpack the package and run the install script.

Then download and unpack McCLIM and follow its install instructions and 
things should work, more or less.

You'll need Apple's X11 to run it, at least until the lengthy porting 
effort produces an Aqua version of McCLIM that is reasonably useable.

Installing with OpenMCL is pretty much the same, and there's a set of 
OpenMCL-specific install instructions with McCLIM. It assumes you are 
going to use defsystem, but I have made it work by inferring the correct 
changes for use with ASDF.