From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: CLIM frames embedded within other applications
Date: 
Message-ID: <87smhciptm.fsf@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it>
Some time ago I posted this query to the CLIM mailing list, but
received no replies. The wider audience of comp.lang.lisp may shed
some light on this.

I have read that CLIM frames may also be displayed embedded within
other--CLIM and/or non-Lisp?--applications. I would like to learn more
about this feature, to get the big picture of how it works and when it
can be used. Is there any sample code? If I understand correctly, this
feature could be used, say, to edit an embedded image, possibly in
place, in a word processing application.


Paolo
-- 
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film

From: Scott McKay
Subject: Re: CLIM frames embedded within other applications
Date: 
Message-ID: <hYPXb.314172$I06.3180081@attbi_s01>
"Paolo Amoroso" <·······@mclink.it> wrote in message
···················@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it...
> Some time ago I posted this query to the CLIM mailing list, but
> received no replies. The wider audience of comp.lang.lisp may shed
> some light on this.
>
> I have read that CLIM frames may also be displayed embedded within
> other--CLIM and/or non-Lisp?--applications. I would like to learn more
> about this feature, to get the big picture of how it works and when it
> can be used. Is there any sample code? If I understand correctly, this
> feature could be used, say, to edit an embedded image, possibly in
> place, in a word processing application.
>

The support for this is pretty spotty and ad-hoc.

You really have to carefully design the containing and
contained applications to play nice with each other, but
there's no really good protocol to help you.

This was an area where CLIM got a bit ahead of itself,
then we ran out of resources to do it properly.
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: CLIM frames embedded within other applications
Date: 
Message-ID: <877jynrm72.fsf@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it>
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:

> The support for this is pretty spotty and ad-hoc.
>
> You really have to carefully design the containing and
> contained applications to play nice with each other, but
> there's no really good protocol to help you.

Do you mean that the CLIM 2 specification does not fully--or at
all--address this issue?

Thanks for the info,


Paolo
-- 
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
From: Scott McKay
Subject: Re: CLIM frames embedded within other applications
Date: 
Message-ID: <gvyYb.51903$jk2.136226@attbi_s53>
"Paolo Amoroso" <·······@mclink.it> wrote in message
···················@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it...
> "Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:
>
> > The support for this is pretty spotty and ad-hoc.
> >
> > You really have to carefully design the containing and
> > contained applications to play nice with each other, but
> > there's no really good protocol to help you.
>
> Do you mean that the CLIM 2 specification does not fully--or at
> all--address this issue?
>
> Thanks for the info,
>

I can't remember what the CLIM II spec says about this,
but I think it says exactly nothing.  I do know that Chris
Richardson and I hacked together the embedded frame
stuff pretty much in one afternoon while I was hacking
out at Franz once.  My opinion is that it works exactly
as well as you might expect from such an effort.  ;-)
From: Duncan Rose
Subject: Re: CLIM frames embedded within other applications
Date: 
Message-ID: <5b0a8945.0402180118.22b49763@posting.google.com>
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<······················@attbi_s53>...
> "Paolo Amoroso" <·······@mclink.it> wrote in message
> ···················@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it...
> > "Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:
> >
> > > The support for this is pretty spotty and ad-hoc.
> > >
> > > You really have to carefully design the containing and
> > > contained applications to play nice with each other, but
> > > there's no really good protocol to help you.
> >
> > Do you mean that the CLIM 2 specification does not fully--or at
> > all--address this issue?
> >
> > Thanks for the info,
> >
> 
> I can't remember what the CLIM II spec says about this,
> but I think it says exactly nothing.  I do know that Chris
> Richardson and I hacked together the embedded frame
> stuff pretty much in one afternoon while I was hacking
> out at Franz once.  My opinion is that it works exactly
> as well as you might expect from such an effort.  ;-)

The spec has exactly the following to say:

"Some applications may act as frame managers that allow the frames of
other applications to be displayed with their own frames.  For
example, a text editor might allow figures generated by a graphic
editor to be edited in place by managing the graphics editor's frame
within its own frame."

Which can be found in section 28 (28.1 to be exact). I thought there
was a comment along the lines of "how would this work?" too, but I
can't find it now.

I assumed this would work as described; with an application frame that
also implemented the
frame manager protocol, but I haven't experimented with this (yet).

Something for "CLIM 3" perhaps ;-)

-Duncan
From: Scott McKay
Subject: Re: CLIM frames embedded within other applications
Date: 
Message-ID: <yUJYb.351623$na.520208@attbi_s04>
"Duncan Rose" <··@robotcat.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
·································@posting.google.com...
> "Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<······················@attbi_s53>...
> > "Paolo Amoroso" <·······@mclink.it> wrote in message
> > ···················@plato.moon.paoloamoroso.it...
> > > "Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:
> > >
>
> Something for "CLIM 3" perhaps ;-)
>

Starting in about 2001, I started referring to this idea
as "CLIM-2000" to reflect its state-of-the-artness.  :-)

We got the embedding protocol right in DUIM, which
I keep telling the McCLIM'ers to look at.  DUIM apps
could actually embed, and be embedded in, OLE apps
under Windows...

DUIM is open source, so it's easy to look at.
From: Peter S. Housel
Subject: Re: CLIM frames embedded within other applications
Date: 
Message-ID: <mu94qtopc5v.fsf@ip68-4-96-125.oc.oc.cox.net>
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:
> We got the embedding protocol right in DUIM, which
> I keep telling the McCLIM'ers to look at.  DUIM apps
> could actually embed, and be embedded in, OLE apps
> under Windows...
> 
> DUIM is open source, so it's easy to look at.

The easy way to look at DUIM is to browse through the sources at
http://www.gwydiondylan.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/src/duim/, or to
download the entire Gwydion Dylan distribution (see
http://www.gwydiondylan.org/downloading.phtml).

-Peter-