https://www.pubsoft.org/pubsoft.py/viewprojects
There are two projects there
VLEE (Virtual Lisp Machine Emulator)
and
The TI Explorer 3 Emulator project
if you are intrested in working on the projects or helping out
with the projects or funding the projects please go there.
I just set up the PubSoft.org account tonight because
I believe that Lispm emulators should be free.
& I also belive the Lispm hardware should
be developed on OpenCores.org
if you love Lisp/Scheme and want to see the rebirth
of the LispOS please help out.
Thanks.
"Franz Kafka" <Symbolics _ XL1201 _ Sebek _ Budo _ Kafka @ hotmail . com> wrote in message news:<···················@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>...
> https://www.pubsoft.org/pubsoft.py/viewprojects
>
> There are two projects there
>
> VLEE (Virtual Lisp Machine Emulator)
which is a fake project. Nothing of substance there.
> and
>
> The TI Explorer 3 Emulator project
>
Which is mostly dead.
> if you are intrested in working on the projects or helping out
> with the projects or funding the projects please go there.
Stop trolling.
"Rainer Joswig" <······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote in message
·································@posting.google.com...
> "Franz Kafka" <Symbolics _ XL1201 _ Sebek _ Budo _ Kafka @ hotmail . com>
wrote in message news:<···················@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>...
> > https://www.pubsoft.org/pubsoft.py/viewprojects
> >
> > There are two projects there
> >
> > VLEE (Virtual Lisp Machine Emulator)
>
> which is a fake project. Nothing of substance there.
>
A friend of mine is helping VLEE by trying to debug his
MacIvory to figure out the Ivory instruction set.
This is hard hard work, I know I helped him out, so
I expect that within the next few months something
big to be posted there.
It would be helpful if more people with access to an
Ivory based machine would help the process.
I think that sometime next week he is going to write down
what is stored in the registers of a freshly booted Ivory,
I know because I am going to write down the contents
of the registers.
I am not Trolling--just trying to get other people to help
the project out.
How to debug an Ivory:
1.) Transfer to the FEP
2.) Enter the 'Debug' command in FEP
3.) GO to bottom of stack (used <ctrl><help> to get help)
4.) I hit <ctrl><L> to find content of stack.
5.) Pressed </> to find content of registers.
6.) Trolled up to next frame. (the only trolling I do.)
7.) Repeted step's 4 & 5 until I got to top-of-stack.
These steps apply to a MacIvory--they might
be different on an XL machine.
"Rainer Joswig" <······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote in message
·································@posting.google.com...
> "Franz Kafka" <Symbolics _ XL1201 _ Sebek _ Budo _ Kafka @ hotmail . com>
wrote in message news:<···················@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>...
> > https://www.pubsoft.org/pubsoft.py/viewprojects
> >
> > There are two projects there
> >
> > VLEE (Virtual Lisp Machine Emulator)
>
> which is a fake project. Nothing of substance there.
>
A friend of mine is helping VLEE by trying to debug his
MacIvory to figure out the Ivory instruction set.
This is hard hard work, I know I helped him out, so
I expect that within the next few months something
big to be posted there.
It would be helpful if more people with access to an
Ivory based machine would help the process.
I think that sometime next week he is going to write down
what is stored in the registers of a freshly booted Ivory,
I know because I am going to write down the contents
of the registers.
I am not Trolling--just trying to get other people to help
the project out.
How to debug an Ivory:
1.) Transfer to the FEP
2.) Enter the 'Debug' command in FEP
3.) GO to bottom of stack (used <ctrl><help> to get help)
4.) I hit <ctrl><L> to find content of stack.
5.) Pressed </> to find content of registers.
6.) Trolled up to next frame. (the only trolling I do.)
7.) Repeted step's 4 & 5 until I got to top-of-stack.
These steps apply to a MacIvory--they might
be different on an XL machine.
"Franz Kafka" <Symbolics _ XL1201 _ Sebek _ Budo _ Kafka @ hotmail . com> wrote in message news:<···················@news01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>...
> "Rainer Joswig" <······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote in message
> ·································@posting.google.com...
> > "Franz Kafka" <Symbolics _ XL1201 _ Sebek _ Budo _ Kafka @ hotmail . com>
> wrote in message news:<···················@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>...
> > > https://www.pubsoft.org/pubsoft.py/viewprojects
> > >
> > > There are two projects there
> > >
> > > VLEE (Virtual Lisp Machine Emulator)
> >
> > which is a fake project. Nothing of substance there.
> >
>
> A friend of mine is helping VLEE by trying to debug his
> MacIvory to figure out the Ivory instruction set.
>
> This is hard hard work, I know I helped him out, so
> I expect that within the next few months something
> big to be posted there.
>
> It would be helpful if more people with access to an
> Ivory based machine would help the process.
>
> I think that sometime next week he is going to write down
> what is stored in the registers of a freshly booted Ivory,
>
> I know because I am going to write down the contents
> of the registers.
>
> I am not Trolling--just trying to get other people to help
> the project out.
>
> How to debug an Ivory:
>
> 1.) Transfer to the FEP
> 2.) Enter the 'Debug' command in FEP
> 3.) GO to bottom of stack (used <ctrl><help> to get help)
> 4.) I hit <ctrl><L> to find content of stack.
> 5.) Pressed </> to find content of registers.
> 6.) Trolled up to next frame. (the only trolling I do.)
> 7.) Repeted step's 4 & 5 until I got to top-of-stack.
>
> These steps apply to a MacIvory--they might
> be different on an XL machine.
What a waste of time.
[followup to comp.lang.lisp only]
On 16 May 2003 16:25:47 -0700, ······@corporate-world.lisp.de (Rainer
Joswig) wrote:
> What a waste of time.
Could you elaborate? Do you think it's a waste of time to work on Lisp
Machine emulators? Or the approach the current emulation projects are
taking? Something else?
Paolo
--
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it>
In article <····························@4ax.com>,
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> wrote:
> [followup to comp.lang.lisp only]
>
> On 16 May 2003 16:25:47 -0700, ······@corporate-world.lisp.de (Rainer
> Joswig) wrote:
>
> > What a waste of time.
>
> Could you elaborate? Do you think it's a waste of time to work on Lisp
> Machine emulators?
Writing an emulator needs some people with knowhow in that
area. It seems to be clear that the original poster is
not one of those. It is a tough project for hobbyists.
The software that runs on those machines is proprietary.
Which means there are all kinds of legal issues.
The code that runs on those machines **might** be interesting,
but much of it is outdated, implementations are poorly
documented, etc.. Do you really want to run a wild
mix of more than four Lisp dialects in one OS?
Why would you want to write an emulator that runs
a proprietary mix of development system and OS?
> Or the approach the current emulation projects are
> taking? Something else?
For several years nothing working has been published
from any Lispm-emulation project. Only fragments.
There are already two working emulators. One is
sold by Symbolics for Alpha machines. The other
one is the emulator for the Xerox InterLisp machines.
Both are proprietary as their software is.
Either you get one of those or you give Symbolics enough
money, so they can hire some experts to port it to
some other architecture (MacOS X 10.3 on PowerPC 970).
The latter is NOT likely to happen.
If you want to have something "free" you need to start
from scratch (with the OS) and we know how successful
those attempts leave the discussion phase. Not!
For getting some knowledge on Lisp implementations,
GUI tools etc. better support CMUCL, SBCL, OpenMCL,
McCLIM, ... Runs on today's hard/software and gets you
somewhere.
Or if you don't mind a non-free Lisp for software
development (okay for me) get LispWorks, which
has the most Lispm-like integrated development
environment currently.
Some Explorer manuals are avail. on-line
http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/ti/explorer/
I have not had a chance to look at them yet--
just found them.
Happy Lisping ;)
On Sat, 17 May 2003 17:02:29 +0200, Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de>
wrote:
> sold by Symbolics for Alpha machines. The other
> one is the emulator for the Xerox InterLisp machines.
Do you mean Medley?
Paolo
--
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it>
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> wrote in message news:<····························@4ax.com>...
> On Sat, 17 May 2003 17:02:29 +0200, Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de>
> wrote:
>
> > sold by Symbolics for Alpha machines. The other
> > one is the emulator for the Xerox InterLisp machines.
>
> Do you mean Medley?
>
>
> Paolo
Yes.
http://top2bottom.net/medley.html
Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de> writes:
[LispM]
> The code that runs on those machines **might** be interesting,
> but much of it is outdated, implementations are poorly
> documented, etc.. Do you really want to run a wild
> mix of more than four Lisp dialects in one OS?
> Why would you want to write an emulator that runs
> a proprietary mix of development system and OS?
With this attitude most of the existing emulators would have never
been written. I just found the following German paragraph explaining
why emulators are a good thing:
Taken From:
http://www.fbi.fh-darmstadt.de/~schneider/ba-wp-hi/arbeitsblaetter/simulation.pdf
Die Erhaltung der Ger�te sowie der Software in funktionsf�higer Form
ist f�r die Technikhistorie der Informatik ein wesentlicher
Aspekt. Denn gerade die Einsicht in die vollst�ndige Funktion der
historischen Ger�te macht deren Erhalt erst sinnvoll. Anderenfalls
w�rde nur eine Schrottsammlung verbleiben
[It roughly says that keeping hardware/software in a working condition
helps to understand their functioning and thus justifies their
preservation.]
Regards,
Julian
··········@web.de (Julian St.) wrote in message news:<··············@jmmr.no-ip.com>...
> Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de> writes:
>
> [LispM]
> > The code that runs on those machines **might** be interesting,
> > but much of it is outdated, implementations are poorly
> > documented, etc.. Do you really want to run a wild
> > mix of more than four Lisp dialects in one OS?
> > Why would you want to write an emulator that runs
> > a proprietary mix of development system and OS?
>
> With this attitude most of the existing emulators would have never
> been written. I just found the following German paragraph explaining
> why emulators are a good thing:
>
> Taken From:
> http://www.fbi.fh-darmstadt.de/~schneider/ba-wp-hi/arbeitsblaetter/simulation.pdf
Whatever. Academic blabla.
There are already emulators for Lisp machines. Did you get that?
> Die Erhaltung der Ger�te sowie der Software in funktionsf�higer Form
> ist f�r die Technikhistorie der Informatik ein wesentlicher
> Aspekt. Denn gerade die Einsicht in die vollst�ndige Funktion der
> historischen Ger�te macht deren Erhalt erst sinnvoll. Anderenfalls
> w�rde nur eine Schrottsammlung verbleiben
I have two nicely working original Lisp machines next to my PowerMac,
at home.
> [It roughly says that keeping hardware/software in a working condition
> helps to understand their functioning and thus justifies their
> preservation.]
Blabla. What does this have to do with nonsense like the "VLEE" stuff?
It seems that this topic attracts quite a few lunatics.
From: Christopher C. Stacy
Subject: Re: 2 LispM projects on PubSoft.com
Date:
Message-ID: <uhe7odcid.fsf@dtpq.com>
There is already an excellent emulator available, for a much
better version of the Lisp Machine hardware and software.
Why start your project by going backwards 100s of man years?