Hi,
Is the hyperspec available in any other formats? I would like to have
it in info format for easier searching, and if anybody has a url I'd
appreciate it.
--
burton samograd
······@kruhft.dyndns.org
http://kruhftwerk.dyndns.org
> Is the hyperspec available in any other formats? I would like to have
> it in info format for easier searching, and if anybody has a url I'd
> appreciate it.
Keep in mind that the hyperspec is a webbed-up version of the ANSI
standard. You can probably find the .tex sources of said standard
online, and go to town converting them to whatever format you'd prefer.
I for one would love a Texinfo version.
Ted
--
Edward O'Connor
·······@soe.ucsd.edu
Edward O'Connor <·······@soe.ucsd.edu> writes:
> > Is the hyperspec available in any other formats? I would like to
> > have it in info format for easier searching, and if anybody has a
> > url I'd appreciate it.
>
> Keep in mind that the hyperspec is a webbed-up version of the ANSI
> standard. You can probably find the .tex sources of said standard
> online, and go to town converting them to whatever format you'd
> prefer. I for one would love a Texinfo version.
TeX sources (is that the latest version?):
<http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/doc/standard/ansi/>
Postscript:
<http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3246395430170913%40naggum.no>
Edi.
Edi Weitz <···@agharta.de> writes:
> Edward O'Connor <·······@soe.ucsd.edu> writes:
>
> > > Is the hyperspec available in any other formats? I would like to
> > > have it in info format for easier searching, and if anybody has a
> > > url I'd appreciate it.
> >
> > Keep in mind that the hyperspec is a webbed-up version of the ANSI
> > standard. You can probably find the .tex sources of said standard
> > online, and go to town converting them to whatever format you'd
> > prefer. I for one would love a Texinfo version.
>
> TeX sources (is that the latest version?):
>
> <http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/doc/standard/ansi/>
>
> Postscript:
>
> <http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3246395430170913%40naggum.no>
>
> Edi.
The latest public sources are where they always were
ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/CL
Kent M Pitman <······@world.std.com> writes:
> > > Burton Samograd writes:
> > > > Is the hyperspec available in any other formats?
> The latest public sources are where they always were
> ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/CL
Or
ftp://parcftp.xerox.com/pub/cl
The README says that the stuff in dpANS3 at that time had not yet
officially become the third draft. According to this message:
·····················································@netcom.com
it seems like dpANS3 did pass the ballot.
Also, Erik Naggum's PostScript files are mirrored here:
http://quimby.gnus.org/circus/cl/
Lars Brinkhoff <·········@nocrew.org> writes:
> Kent M Pitman <······@world.std.com> writes:
> > > > Burton Samograd writes:
> > > > > Is the hyperspec available in any other formats?
> > The latest public sources are where they always were
> > ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/CL
>
> Or
> ftp://parcftp.xerox.com/pub/cl
>
> The README says that the stuff in dpANS3 at that time had not yet
> officially become the third draft. According to this message:
> ·····················································@netcom.com
> it seems like dpANS3 did pass the ballot.
No, it did not. dpANS3R did. See my comments below.
> Also, Erik Naggum's PostScript files are mirrored here:
> http://quimby.gnus.org/circus/cl/
If you read the README file in dpANS3R, it will direct you to notice that
the edit history has changed. From the edit history (with the TeX stripped
out for your reading pleasure):
12-Aug-94 X3J13 Letter ballot to make specific corrections to Credits.
Drafts 15.17 and 15.17R are _identical_ except for:
Changes to document date and version number.
Disclaimer added to back of cover page.
Changes to this Edit and Review History,
page _Credits iv_.
Changes to names and headings,
pages _Credits v-vii_.
12-Aug-94 Pitman Draft 15.17R (for X3 consideration).
Document X3J13/94-101R.
The difference between X3J13/94-101 and X3J13/94-101R is textually simple
but administratively complicated.
Someone challenged the presence of someone else in the credits during the
public review. Public reviews are only for technical changes, not
editorial changes, but there is was no ruling body that was capable
of ruling a particular change editorial, and the overseeing organizations
advised us that it was best to just deal with this as a technical change,
which meant going out to public review. So we collected comments and then
we made another draft, which had some updated credits (though not the thing
that had been complained about, because I pulled hardcopy records of the
meetings to justify why I had listed things as I had).
The original complaint, as I saw it, came down to a personal judgment
by one member about another's actual contribution, which is far too
hard to measure. The overall sense was that it was better to credit
someone for too much than too little, and that if there was precedent
for removing someone for "not having done enough" it would be
dangerous. As it was, it was largely a petty incident, I think, and it
delayed confirmation of the standard by about 6 months. (Think about
issues like this when I rant about the ANSI process being too slow and
expensive.)
I have sanitized the names of those concerned from this account. They're
available in other records, but I'd personally prefer to let sleeping dogs
lie. We all make mistakes and the person who made this one has probably
by now taken enough grief over this.
In any case, the bottom line is that there are differences in the credits
for dpANS3R and dpANS3, and you should use the substitution pages at the
ftp site in the 3R directory to upgrade the dpANS3 sources, which are
computationally complete but not the latest files.
The content of dpANS3R did become the ANSI standard, although there was
substantial 'book design' change. I saved about 200 pages (down from
about 1350 to about 1150) by changing the interline spacing here and there!
The running headings were different, and there are one or two places where
I introduced a line break that hadn't been there before. Some fonting was
also changed. But in all matters of substance other than the actual
placement of ANSI's blessing (if you consider that a matter of substance,
and some do), dpANS3R is believed to say the same things as does the ANSI CL
specification itself. The actual sources to the ANSI CL specification are
not public, exactly in order to avoid confusion.
We did this whole thing about the final version better for ISLISP,
having seen the confusion that resulted from the administrative
handling of ANSI CL.
As proof that I really am, in background, working on some of these
sites I've long promised and that have been held back by stupidity
related to my house renovation (i.e., nothing to do with Lisp), I've
upgraded the site www.islisp.info to offer the ISLISP specification
for viewing or download. (This stuff used to be available in a
directory of mine from old-Harlequin and might still be available
somewhere at Xanalys, but it has deserved its own web page.) The site
carefully explains the legal issues we tried to address. I've buried
notice of this site upgrade in this article rather than make another
article for now because I think my site can handle routine business
that this site will attract without the need for mirrors, but I didn't
want every single person to ping this site at once at its first
announcement--I'm not sure my DSL can handle that. So please don't
scoop me and re-post this announcement yet. I'll post some other
notices in other venues at staged intervals over the next few days.
Kent M Pitman wrote:
> As proof that I really am, in background, working on some of these
> sites I've long promised and that have been held back by stupidity
> related to my house renovation (i.e., nothing to do with Lisp), I've
> upgraded the site [...] to offer the ISLISP specification
> for viewing or download. (This stuff used to be available in a
> directory of mine from old-Harlequin and might still be available
> somewhere at Xanalys, but it has deserved its own web page.) The site
> carefully explains the legal issues we tried to address.
The inclusion of legal issues is a really good idea.
Do also you know what the rules are for making derivatives of the ANSI
Common Lisp spec? Are they similar to those of ISLISP?
Pascal
--
Pascal Costanza University of Bonn
···············@web.de Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de R�merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)
Pascal Costanza <········@web.de> writes:
> Kent M Pitman wrote:
>
> > As proof that I really am, in background, working on some of these
> > sites I've long promised and that have been held back by stupidity
> > related to my house renovation (i.e., nothing to do with Lisp), I've
> > upgraded the site [...] to offer the ISLISP specification
> > for viewing or download. (This stuff used to be available in a
> > directory of mine from old-Harlequin and might still be available
> > somewhere at Xanalys, but it has deserved its own web page.) The site
> > carefully explains the legal issues we tried to address.
>
> The inclusion of legal issues is a really good idea.
>
> Do also you know what the rules are for making derivatives of the ANSI
> Common Lisp spec? Are they similar to those of ISLISP?
They are considerably more complicated in a variety of ways. Your question,
by the way, presupposes that you didn't read the islisp.info site carefully
yet and/or that you didn't get the subtlety even of that. Making derivatives
of either ISO ISLISP or ANSI CL requires negotiating with lots of lawyers
at a major corporation that makes its money selling books. Making derivatives
of "final drafts" does not involve doing this, but is _not_ (to use your
text) "making derivatives of the ANSI Common Lisp spec". It is technically
equivalent, but it must not be called that.
The reason the HyperSpec _is_ a derivative of the ANSI CL spec is that
then-Harlequin _did_ do the negotiations with ANSI in order to get this.
However, that negotiation was far from easy. It's not impossible to do.
But it was not straightforward. I won't talk about what we had to do in this
forum, but if you have a serious need to do it, contact me privately and
I can explain the complications of it all. The short form of the answer is
that you will probably save yourself enormous pain if you don't do it,
and if you just make a derivative of the dpANS3R spec. But even then, there
are some minor nagging details I won't talk about here.
I will just add that, IMO, a lot of "law" is about intimidation, since most
things don't actually get to court and get decided by official forums. A lot
is about getting people to stand down on the basis of fear. Such fear is
easier to engender for the person possessed of the best information. So the
kind of unfettered information sharing you might want can't be done here
without losing a corresponding degree of power to our community. Sigh.
Burton Samograd <······@hotmail.com> writes:
> Is the hyperspec available in any other formats? I would like to
> have it in info format for easier searching, and if anybody has a
> url I'd appreciate it.
I think the INFO file distributed with GCL comes pretty close. IIRC
it's based on one of the last drafts. Maybe someone else can provide
the details.
<ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/gcl/gcl.info.tgz>
Edi.
Burton Samograd wrote:
> Is the hyperspec available in any other formats? I would like to have
> it in info format for easier searching, and if anybody has a url I'd
> appreciate it.
It isn't exactly the question you asked, but there is already an
ht//Dig search page for the ANS at:
http://www.franz.com/search/
The fourth of the search forms on that page includes just the ANS.