Hi,
I haven't used Lisp from since before Common Lisp and I want to get back
in so I would like a nice introduction to the new features, and something
of a reference. What I've read about PAIP makes me prefer that book, but
a review on Amazon said it's lacking as a reference. I can live with
that if it at least gives a decent overview of the most important features
and has /somewhat/ of a reference. Eg, could you live with just PAIP
and occasional trips to the web if you had to, or, since I imagine
there's a lot to learn, would I be better off just going for something like
Paul Graham's 'ANSI Common Lisp'? Or break down and buy 2 books?
Thanks for any recommendations,
Jeff
jd wrote:
> Hi,
What I've read about PAIP makes me prefer that book, but
> a review on Amazon said it's lacking as a reference. I can live with
> that if it at least gives a decent overview of the most important features
> and has /somewhat/ of a reference.
Having recently purchased PAIP I found it nearly as complete and more
accessible than Paul Graham's ANSI Common Lisp, but I am just a hobbyist.
For reference I would use the HyperSpec or Guy Steele's on-line 'Common Lisp
the Language found here:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/ai-repository/ai/html/cltl/cltl2.html
--
<·······@rawbw.com>
Thomas Rivas wrote:
> jd wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>
> What I've read about PAIP makes me prefer that book, but
>
>>a review on Amazon said it's lacking as a reference. I can live with
>>that if it at least gives a decent overview of the most important features
>>and has /somewhat/ of a reference.
>
>
> Having recently purchased PAIP I found it nearly as complete and more
> accessible than Paul Graham's ANSI Common Lisp, but I am just a hobbyist.
> For reference I would use the HyperSpec or Guy Steele's on-line 'Common Lisp
> the Language found here:
> http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/ai-repository/ai/html/cltl/cltl2.html
An addendum: ANSI Common Lisp was changed in some minor ways after
publication of Guy Steele's book (usually referred to as "CLtL2"), so if
you are looking for the most accurate information, you should definitely
look at the HyperSpec. It can be found at
http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/. Franz also offers a
browsable version of the ANSI standard at
http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/6.2/ansicl/ansicl.htm
The differences between CLtL2 and ANSI Common Lisp are described at
http://cbbrowne.com/info/commonlisp.html (see section 2.2.1).
Pascal
--
Pascal Costanza University of Bonn
···············@web.de Institute of Computer Science III
http://www.pascalcostanza.de R�merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany)
Oops! "jd" <········@earthlink.net> was seen spray-painting on a wall:
> I haven't used Lisp from since before Common Lisp and I want to get back
> in so I would like a nice introduction to the new features, and something
> of a reference. What I've read about PAIP makes me prefer that book, but
> a review on Amazon said it's lacking as a reference. I can live with
> that if it at least gives a decent overview of the most important features
> and has /somewhat/ of a reference. Eg, could you live with just PAIP
> and occasional trips to the web if you had to, or, since I imagine
> there's a lot to learn, would I be better off just going for something like
> Paul Graham's 'ANSI Common Lisp'? Or break down and buy 2 books?
You wouldn't be notably better off getting one of Graham's books; they
are about as limited as "references" as PAIP.
What I'd suggest (and I suggested this in the review that suggested
PAIP wasn't the ideal "reference") is that you also get yourself a
copy of CLTL2 and/or the HyperSpec. Both of those are eminently
useful references, are intended as such, and may be freely downloaded.
A copy of Steele's _CLTL2_, in paperback, is probably the best "second
book" that you could get.
--
output = ("cbbrowne" ·@acm.org")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/lisp.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord #67. "No matter how many shorts we have in
the system, my guards will be instructed to treat every surveillance
camera malfunction as a full-scale emergency."
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
Christopher Browne <········@acm.org> wrote in message news:<··············@ID-125932.news.dfncis.de>...
> You wouldn't be notably better off getting one of Graham's books; they
> are about as limited as "references" as PAIP.
Grahams "ANSI Common Lisp" has an appendix which has a complete
listing of every Common Lisp operator. I'd have to say it's a great
reference. It's paper (my preference), and _much_ shorter than CLtL2.
I don't have the actual ANSI Common Lisp specification, but of the
three other references mentioned (Graham, Steele, Hyperspec), I find
the Appendix in Graham's book to be the most useful. If I'm working
with a stream I can open the appendix to the streams section (p 374)
and quickly scan the next five pages to see the 53 different functions
available to me and read their descriptions.
If I'm unclear on a concept or want more examples or discussion I
usually crack open CLtL2.
And the Hyperspec is great for looking up specific things, especially
from the editor, but I find it very difficult to "browse" - it's
overly divided and subdivided (even the "Concept" sections). But then,
as mentioned, I'm a person who prefers paper as a reference medium.
Chris
P.S. PAIP is a _great_ book too, but it is most certainly _not_ a
reference. It has a tiny Lisp overview in the beginning chapters.
"jd" <········@earthlink.net> writes:
> Hi,
>
> I haven't used Lisp from since before Common Lisp and I want to get back
> in so I would like a nice introduction to the new features, and something
> of a reference. What I've read about PAIP makes me prefer that book, but
> a review on Amazon said it's lacking as a reference. I can live with
> that if it at least gives a decent overview of the most important features
> and has /somewhat/ of a reference. Eg, could you live with just PAIP
> and occasional trips to the web if you had to, or, since I imagine
> there's a lot to learn, would I be better off just going for something like
> Paul Graham's 'ANSI Common Lisp'? Or break down and buy 2 books?
Buy 2 books.
I have --
PAIP
good for examples of small lisp programs actually doing
interesting and useful thing. i am not very interested in AI
per se, but found this book very helpful and interesting
nonetheless.
ANSI Common Lisp
a good intro. it talks about writing functions and utilities.
it doesn't give any sense of how to work with lisp in practice.
On Lisp
mostly about lisp macros. nice to learn about macros. still,
it's like Graham's other book, just utilities and quick hacks.
CLtL2
it is obsolete as a standard, but largely relevant. for a
standard, i found it easy to read with good examples and
explanation and motivations for many lisp features.
I wish there were a better reference about working with Lisp. I found
it tough going getting emacs, ilisp and various CL impementations
working. I only know a half dozen commands in ilisp and really feel
like I am missing a lot of important things, like how debug, how to
start/stop/continue programs, &c.
How to deploy a lisp program is fairly unkown to me. I either run it
interactively from within emacs or make a linux command out of clisp
scripting. Larger programs made out of multiple source files are a
complete mystery to me. I guess I should look into cl-defsystem.
The lisp "hello world" is just (format t "hello world") but there is a
bit of work involved in setting up and learning to us a real
develpment environment. I don't know how to usefully give it to my
non-lisping peers.
--
Johan KULLSTAM <··········@attbi.com> sysengr